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Kenwright, Is He Similar To Gillete & Hicks?


Louis

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if we win the eufa cup but only finish 5th people will probably start moaning that we should have fin 4th also...it will be bk fault for not spending in the window.

 

We certainly wont achieve either of them if all we have to rely on for cover is Van der Meyde and Graveson.

I'm just praying we dont have any injuries to our midfielders.

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They certainly shouldn't, but it shouldn't be should'nt, it should be shouldn't :P .

 

Sorry...I'm ashamed :unsure: .

 

On this occasion your right or should it be you're right, or you are right. :rolleyes: you dont know do you.

It should actually be .............. People in glass houses, should not............

 

And so you should be, a cheap shot at the honourable draw i allowed you. from the goodness of my heart. :D

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Well!......Who would the people here on the forum prefer?

 

Bill Kenwright or Gillete & Hicks?

 

But for some terrible refs we would have a few points gap between us and 5th, if Chelsea had played as badly against us as they did luckypool Sunday, we would be in a final against Spurs!

 

Were going well in Europe.....and our injuries have been as bad as anyones.

 

Great young British manager, young squad, own stadium(and what ever problems go with it!)

 

Me I'll take Kenwright.

 

If we win nothing and finish 5th, that will be a great season for us to build on......but that wont be enough for some people.....will it?

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Well!......Who would the people here on the forum prefer?

 

Bill Kenwright or Gillete & Hicks?

 

But for some terrible refs we would have a few points gap between us and 5th, if Chelsea had played as badly against us as they did luckypool Sunday, we would be in a final against Spurs!

 

Were going well in Europe.....and our injuries have been as bad as anyones.

 

Great young British manager, young squad, own stadium(and what ever problems go with it!)

 

Me I'll take Kenwright.

 

If we win nothing and finish 5th, that will be a great season for us to build on......but that wont be enough for some people.....will it?

 

 

Are they the only foreign investors in the Premiership? Look at Lerner and you'll see how it can work out very well. Not all investors are good but they're not all bad either. And if it's between Lerner and Kenwright I'd have Lerner every single time.

Edited by Romey 1878
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In my experience there are four basic types of team owners.

 

Type A is Spendthrift and Hands-on, or what I call the ruthless businessman. He doesn't give a crap about the team, the sport, or the fans. His only goals are to make a profit every year, and an even bigger profit when he re-sells the team someday; everything else, including winning, is secondary. Even if he's worth billions he still spends money on his team only grudgingly, and usually only when it's necessary to placate the fans or a new managerial hire, not to improve the team on the field. He won't sign off on anything that he thinks is too expensive, no matter how necessary his football people tell him it is. Any success for a team owned by the ruthless businessman is usually a lucky accident, and never lasts more than a season or two.

Example: Al-Fayed at Fulham fits the bill

 

Type B is Frugal and Hands-off, or what I call the smart businessman. He may or may not be a fan of the team or the sport, but it almost doesn't matter because he knows that other people are fans and his focus is doing his best to keep them happy. He realizes that smart spending increases the team's chances of success, and more success means more fans and a better, more profitable business in the long run. He ultimately controls the purse and sets the budget, but beyond that the smart businessman is willing to leave the football decisions to the football people on his staff, trusting them to make the right decisions. These are usually the most desirable owners (from a fan's perspective) and often - though not always - prove to be the most successful over the long-term.

Examples: Steve Gibson at Boro (he's done so much for that club that the fans still love him even when they're languishing in mid-table), and so far Lerner at AV is putting himself in this group too

 

Type C is Frugal and Hands-on, or what I call the fantasy football owner. He thinks he knows more about football than his manager or anyone else in the organization, and is willing to spend a lot of money on the biggest names he can attract to his team. He has little or no regard for team chemistry and continuity, and so is rarely successful in the long term without a strong manager who is capable of managing the wide variety of playing styles and egos his owner keeps adding to the roster. Signings, transfers, even who plays and who sits; if the fantasy owner has an opinion on those or any other decisions he's going to make himself heard, and woe betide the manager or team executive who defies his wishes. Fans initially love his willingness to spare no expense for the team, but can turn against him for his interference and meddling if all that spending still doesn't bring success.

Example: Abramovich at Chelsea is the classic example, and Mike Ashley at Newcastle seems to be heading this way

 

Type D is Spendthrift and Hands-off, or what I call the little owner that could. He wants his team to succeed, understands how a championship-winning organization should be run, and tries to model things after the smart businessman, setting the budget and letting his football people make most of the decisions, but for some reason he just lacks the revenue streams to consistently contend above a certain level. Perhaps his team has the disadvantage of playing in a smaller market, is saddled with an old/obsolete stadium, or doesn't have a big enough fan base to support his ambitions beyond a certain point. The little owner that could's teams are frequently famous for their youth development programs, and equally famous for selling off their young players once they start getting older and more expensive. If he can find more revenues somewhere he is capable of evolving into a Type B owner, but if he can't break the glass ceiling then he may end up frustrating his team's fans more than satisfying them, with the fruits of success so close but always seeming to dangle just barely out of reach.

Example: Kenwright seems to fall into this category, and I'd also put Dave Whelan at Wigan here - I think he's taken that club about as far as it can realistically go with their small market and limited fan base

 

Obviously Type B is usually the best kind of owner to have and Type A is usually the worst, but choosing between C and D often comes down to personal choice. Would you rather have a Type C owner who spends lots of money but turns the organization into a sideshow circus with all of his meddling and sometimes seemingly nonsensical decisions, who has an equal chance of bringing your team spectacular success or spectacular failure? Or would you rather have a Type D owner who doesn't have as much money to spend as a lot of other teams, but runs a solid and thoroughly professional organization that almost always gets the most out of whatever resources it has to work with?

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Correct me if i'm wrong JD but i gather you are trying to tell us that Kenwright is the best option. Or did you miss out on a category "E".

The Chairman who picked up a business at the right time and at the right price, who was unwilling to spend any money, because basicly he has'nt got any, and was lucky enough to choose a manager that has done more to steady the ship than anyone due to his exploits on the field.

While the fans are indeed appeased by the achievements and increased quality of the product on the field, the off field antics of the business are now worse than ever and is seriously in debt, it makes no difference how good the product is, if you are not selling enough you can not and will not make a profit.

My personal opinion is that the Chairman "E" has achieved a lifelong ambition to own the business and is revelling being in that position, so much so that he is very loathe to relinquish it and has even gone to the extremes of selling off all the Clubs assets in a bid to remain in the position for as long as he possibly can.

Now that all the off the field assets have been sold and the debts have not been reduced (they have increased) the only assets left to the club now are on the field. How long before he has to start selling those.

I think Chairman "E" was a temporary quick fix and i'm sure most people are grateful for what he did, but i think its time he moved over and made room for Chairman A.B.C.or D. i',m not bothered which one, but this business can not keep going deeper and deeper into debt.

 

Thanks Bill but please go soon. :)

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absolutely right on the money JD, brilliant post. Kenwright is doing all he realistically can and he is the best we can realistically do at the moment. No Randy Lerner type is going to buy us as at the moment - we just don't have the catchment area (which was a major factor why he didn't buy us in the first place and went for Villa) or the land value and we have too much debt.

 

Also, I don't quite see how off the field we're worse than ever, we've got our biggest ever sponsorship deal, we were in the top 20 richest clubs or something the other year etc - am I missing something? Surely our debt is increasing due to the vast sums of money we've spent on transfers in the last couple of years (well spent money) and due to the fact that we have increased the size of the squad and finally started paying decent wages so we can actually sign good players. Plus our ticket prices are nowhere near as high as most clubs in the league (a good thing) and our capacity is now somewhat limited compared to the bigger clubs. This all means that revenue from the fans is staying virtually the same, but wages and transfer fees are increasing exponentially, it's another reason why we need to move.

 

It seems that no one wants to give BK any credit for signing Moyes (indeed he was an up and coming manager - so was Peter Taylor, look at him now), it was stroke of luck apparently, like signing off on great transfer fees was also either lucky or nothing to do with BK. It's funny how everything that has gone right with Everton over the last few years is nothing to do with Kenwright, but everything that goes wrong is his fault.

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Carl, i'm not going to get into another in depth argument with you, cos i cant be arsed, but the transfers were funded by selling off everything the club possessd, it now has no more assets to sell and we are 20 million pounds deeper in debt than we were two years ago.

I appreciate BK did well in the initial takeover of the club, but now he nor the Club have any more finances and the only assets left are on the pitch.

I've already said thank you to Bk for what he did but its time for him to move out. I've given my opinion and you've given yours, now dont keep going on about it because it does'nt fall in line with what you said.

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we also have a new state of the art training facility - Finch Farm, rather than a rubbishy training ground - that's another reason why we're £20m more in debt. I honestly don't see what the problem is, we may be £20m more in debt that we were 2 years ago, but in that time we're signed Lescott, Arteta, Yakubu, Baines, Howard, AJ? (I think). Selling Lescott or Arteta alone would get us about 75%+ of that £20m back. I'm not saying things are perfect and I don't think anyone would dispute that having someone like Randy Lerner come in would be a good thing, but what I'm saying is that is not going to happen until we move grounds or increase our revenue substantially (which is unlikely). So in summing up, BK is the best we can do and with the resources he has at his disposal he has done a fantastic job.

 

and please can you stop telling me what to do and having sly digs, I'm not 10 years old. I'm allowed to elaborate on my points and you don't have to read them - so less of the patronisation please, it's getting annoying.

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We actually don't own Finch Farm, we sold it before it was even built

I didn't know that, fair point and that is a little concerning - at least we still have use of the excellent facilities.

 

and Licker, I don't accept your opinion because I don't agree with it - that's why people have arguments or debates. I do accept your entitled to your opinion, but if you say things that I disagree with (and vice versa) then I'm within my rights to question it until I'm satisfied that what you're saying is actually sound or until I hopefully change your mind. That's how all arguments/debates work, decisions would never be made and differences of opinion never reconciled if everyone just went oh well that's his opinion so that's ok then. I don't want arguments, just good debates and if I learn something (like finch farm) then all the better for it.

 

I know I have a bit of a character flaw when it comes to not being able to let things go, I tend to over analyse and I can end up going on about the same things until I've explored every angle! It's just my way, but I do try my best!

Edited by carlmc25
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I didn't know that, fair point and that is a little concerning - at least we still have use of the excellent facilities.

 

and Licker, I don't accept your opinion because I don't agree with it - that's why people have arguments or debates. I do accept your entitled to your opinion, but if you say things that I disagree with (and vice versa) then I'm within my rights to question it until I'm satisfied that what you're saying is actually sound or until I hopefully change your mind. That's how all arguments/debates work, decisions would never be made and differences of opinion never reconciled if everyone just went oh well that's his opinion so that's ok then. I don't want arguments, just good debates and if I learn something (like finch farm) then all the better for it.

 

I know I have a bit of a character flaw when it comes to not being able to let things go, I tend to over analyse and I can end up going on about the same things until I've explored every angle! It's just my way, but I do try my best!

 

And you say your not 10?

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

Agreed, another superb post. You have to spend to make money as I've already said, Everton have put their money into the squad in the belief that results on the pitch will get us the revenue and recognition we need.

 

The only problem is, can we wait and see if we keep being successful and a new owner steps in, meaning we don't have to move out of Goodison? I don't think so personally, as it may not happen - leaving us with Goodison which will need serious redeveloping which we just cannot afford. I, like everyone I suspect, do not want Everton to move from Goodison, but I just can't see how we can turn down Kirkby, it's too good to be true.

 

Licker, opinions may not need proving (I never asked for proof) but they should be able to be justified otherwise what is your opinion based on? The grammar wasn't ok - its should have been it's. Unlucky. :)

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

 

I'm in agreement with that mate and one of my biggest fears is that we move to Kirkby in the search for investement and when it comes they turn around and say, "I'd have never moved you out the city". We are on the right track to progress both on the field and in attracting investement so why the rush for the stadium move right now it's proberbly the least important time in the last 10 years to be making this step. I belive we can attract investement with our on the pitch actions over the comming seasons and when that happens we are going to be in a position of power in our stadium move rather than being the sideshow to the Tesco Circus!

 

Playing the long game has given us what we have today (that is something Kenwright deserves credit for!) so lets continue with the slow & steady in all areas and we will end up better off in the end!

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Agreed, another superb post. You have to spend to make money as I've already said, Everton have put their money into the squad in the belief that results on the pitch will get us the revenue and recognition we need.

 

The only problem is, can we wait and see if we keep being successful and a new owner steps in, meaning we don't have to move out of Goodison? I don't think so personally, as it may not happen - leaving us with Goodison which will need serious redeveloping which we just cannot afford. I, like everyone I suspect, do not want Everton to move from Goodison, but I just can't see how we can turn down Kirkby, it's too good to be true.

 

Licker, opinions may not need proving (I never asked for proof) but they should be able to be justified otherwise what is your opinion based on? The grammar wasn't ok - its should have been it's. Unlucky. :)

 

 

I know im shit at Anthing to do with English but that shouldnt be a Capital? I hold my hands up if im wrong.

 

Kirkby Deal is to good to be True? :wacko:

Edited by jacko1990
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I'm in agreement with that mate and one of my biggest fears is that we move to Kirkby in the search for investement and when it comes they turn around and say, "I'd have never moved you out the city". We are on the right track to progress both on the field and in attracting investement so why the rush for the stadium move right now it's proberbly the least important time in the last 10 years to be making this step. I belive we can attract investement with our on the pitch actions over the comming seasons and when that happens we are going to be in a position of power in our stadium move rather than being the sideshow to the Tesco Circus!

 

Playing the long game has given us what we have today (that is something Kenwright deserves credit for!) so lets continue with the slow & steady in all areas and we will end up better off in the end!

I agree with all that and that's fair enough, but I also trust in Kenwright wanting what is best for this club. We'd all love to stay at Goodison or in the heart of the city (ie not Speke) and Kenwright must know how unpopular Kirkby is and how if it goes wrong he will be forever blamed, but he thinks it's the right thing to do and he must be getting advised by some of the most respected names in the business, rather than the man on the street or on the phone-ins. The Liverpool Council may come out with all these big noises about sites, but it was too little, too late - and after seeing the city council voted as the worst in the country twice recently I have little faith in their claims anyway. The Kirkby deal will have a lifespan, if we don't go for it now someone else will snap up the land and we're left with no back-up plan apart from redeveloping Goodison which will cost a fortune, a fortune we don't have.

 

It basically comes down to who you believe, Kenwright and his team of experts, or the man on the street who knows little of what actually goes on behind the scenes. I believe Kenwright.

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