Merseyside Select Xi

[Charlie ton]

he's bringing down are rep as a decent website.

 

That's 'our' not 'are'. If you're going to talk about reputations...

[thompson013]

it would be nice to have a debate with RS fans rather then just start flaming each other (from what i can see blues are just as responcible for that as RS)

 

i would like to go back to the manager issue....

Moyes Vs Rafa

 

looking at trophies won then you cant argue with facts Benetez has got more in the bank. however resources wise Benetez has pretty much had an open chequebook since he moved to Pool, the minute the book is closed (after spending ALOT of cash in the summer i might add) he throws his teddies and starts a media campaign against the owners (which believe me if you think the man is inocent in all this then you have fallen for the spin).

 

Benetez has turned liverpool into a brilliant CUP TEAM and nothing more. he has taken Liverpools tenants of flowing quick football (and it pains me to say it esp around fellow blues) honrable activity off the pitch (community/bootroom yadayadayada) and turned them into a team thats 'hard to beat'.

 

negitive counter attacking football that relies apon the brilliance of two or three outstanding performers (not mentioning any names lets call them, Serrard, Forres and Jarriger)

 

not wanting to do down the achivement of winning the CL (i would seel my soul for the blues to win it) but at the end of the day it IS just a cup compition.

ask a Red to look through the bs. forget the champs league achivements and look at the team, the way they play and the off the field actions of its staff and honestly tell me thay are happy with it.

Liverpools mediocracy has been papered over with a 'roy of the rovers' style cup win (i still maintain pool are the worst team to win the compition since Steaua Bucerest paid of the referee) and the fact that they have one of the top 5 footballers in the world who would take a bullet for the club if he had too.

 

now lets take a look at Moyes. Young and unproven manager really cutting his teeth in the premiership in his early years. his tactical niaveity was one of the reasons we were such a yoyo team.

however what do you expect from a man finding his feet in the worlds best league. every mistake Moyes has made he has learned from and he has turned his team into the genuine article. yes we rely on main stay players too however they have all been brought in by the manager so can you really hold that against him (unlike the inhearited class benetez is using, and i know he brought Torres but if you pay £26mil for a guy you expect him to be good)

 

Moyes has made mistakes in the transfer market but his dimonds more then make up for it.

lescott

jagielka

arteta

cahill

fenades

pienaar

yakubu (half the price of the spanish hairdresser and only 3 goals less, do the math)

make no mistake this is Moyes team.

 

 

he has used the best tactics avialible to him, the negitive football thrown out of the window as soon as he was able to do so) he has done it on a shoe string (in premiership terms) budget.

 

unlike pool we have goals coming from all over the pitch and that is testiment to the playing style and confidence everton have, and yes 4th place will be a tough ask but that is the very least pool would have expected at the begining of the season and they are fighting tooth and nail for it, we seem to be going out and calmly taking teams apart.

 

and my final point, a quote from the commentator during the Goodison derby...

'if liverpool win this they will have done it inspite of Benetez not because of him'

 

have you ever heard that spoken because of DM?

[Charlie ton]

I have to admit that I stopped reading when I got to 'negitive counter attacking football'. It's quite obvious that your opinions isn't formed from actually watching us. I don't mean to be rude and not read all of it, but it's what I would class as uninformed shite.

 

We've destroyed a lot of teams this season with some fantastic football, we've also destroyed teams and come away with a draw and a lot. We control games from start to finish, including games against united and chelsea but came away with 2 points from all three games - that's why we are not winning titles, because we can't finish teams off at times. When we get an early goal, the score is normally 4 or more goals because we have a bit of confidence, but when it gets past half time, we stutter and get nervy because we don't have enough quality attacking players. Torres is wonderful, Babel is really starting to show his talent (despite being played out of position) and in the formation change gerrard is really starting to control games again instead of having to hold in the center but we have no special player to play along side torres (that's mainly why Kuyt is now playing wide right) we have no top wingers (babel is a striker playing on the wing out of necessity - although is much more comfortable in a front three / midfield 5) and that's a massive problem and some of out full backs don't get down the wing enough.

 

I believe that we are very close, much closer than the table has suggested over the last few seasons (despite being ahead of arsenal and one point from united the year before). We have some top class players in Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso, Agger. The problem with that is that only two of them are attacking players and whilst Lucas and Babel are sure fire top class players, it's going to take them another couple of years before they really are in the top bracket.

 

We needs at least one winger, although two would solve our wide problems and then maybe a player like diego ribas to give us more creativity against the teams that just sit and defend, which is most teams that come to anfield.

 

Brick wall + blunt widemen and strike force (torres aside) = a draw.

[carlmc25]

it would be nice to have a debate with RS fans rather then just start flaming each other (from what i can see blues are just as responcible for that as RS)

 

i would like to go back to the manager issue....

Moyes Vs Rafa

 

looking at trophies won then you cant argue with facts Benetez has got more in the bank. however resources wise Benetez has pretty much had an open chequebook since he moved to Pool, the minute the book is closed (after spending ALOT of cash in the summer i might add) he throws his teddies and starts a media campaign against the owners (which believe me if you think the man is inocent in all this then you have fallen for the spin).

 

Benetez has turned liverpool into a brilliant CUP TEAM and nothing more. he has taken Liverpools tenants of flowing quick football (and it pains me to say it esp around fellow blues) honrable activity off the pitch (community/bootroom yadayadayada) and turned them into a team thats 'hard to beat'.

 

negitive counter attacking football that relies apon the brilliance of two or three outstanding performers (not mentioning any names lets call them, Serrard, Forres and Jarriger)

 

not wanting to do down the achivement of winning the CL (i would seel my soul for the blues to win it) but at the end of the day it IS just a cup compition.

ask a Red to look through the bs. forget the champs league achivements and look at the team, the way they play and the off the field actions of its staff and honestly tell me thay are happy with it.

Liverpools mediocracy has been papered over with a 'roy of the rovers' style cup win (i still maintain pool are the worst team to win the compition since Steaua Bucerest paid of the referee) and the fact that they have one of the top 5 footballers in the world who would take a bullet for the club if he had too.

 

now lets take a look at Moyes. Young and unproven manager really cutting his teeth in the premiership in his early years. his tactical niaveity was one of the reasons we were such a yoyo team.

however what do you expect from a man finding his feet in the worlds best league. every mistake Moyes has made he has learned from and he has turned his team into the genuine article. yes we rely on main stay players too however they have all been brought in by the manager so can you really hold that against him (unlike the inhearited class benetez is using, and i know he brought Torres but if you pay £26mil for a guy you expect him to be good)

 

Moyes has made mistakes in the transfer market but his dimonds more then make up for it.

lescott

jagielka

arteta

cahill

fenades

pienaar

yakubu (half the price of the spanish hairdresser and only 3 goals less, do the math)

make no mistake this is Moyes team.

he has used the best tactics avialible to him, the negitive football thrown out of the window as soon as he was able to do so) he has done it on a shoe string (in premiership terms) budget.

 

unlike pool we have goals coming from all over the pitch and that is testiment to the playing style and confidence everton have, and yes 4th place will be a tough ask but that is the very least pool would have expected at the begining of the season and they are fighting tooth and nail for it, we seem to be going out and calmly taking teams apart.

 

and my final point, a quote from the commentator during the Goodison derby...

'if liverpool win this they will have done it inspite of Benetez not because of him'

 

have you ever heard that spoken because of DM?

good post.

 

I have a lot of time for some reds fans, but some are just so blinded by their allegiance that they maintain absolutely zero partiality. All they see is through red tinted glasses. I had a pretty embarrassing argument with some red tit at my girlfriends work xmas do, he was going on about how no Everton players would get in the Liverpool team, even Arteta etc wouldn't get in ahead of Harry Kewell apparently, do me a favour. You'd struggle to give Kewell away and Arteta is worth about £15m. I'm sure they just make some of this stuff up, if they genuinely believe it then it's frightening. If Liverpool are so much better in every position then how come we're level on points? especially considering what a bona fide genius manager Benitez is... The fact is Moyes has done an incredible job, played 451 negative when he had to, got the basics right, transformed an ageing team into a young team hard to beat and then gradually added class and quality over the years, now we have a team that can play football, can mix it with the best and is young and hungry, plus we have a squad, not just a first team. Then you look across the park, Liverpool have gone virtually nowhere under Benitez, they still don't have a genuinely decent winger, have a very good first team but a poor squad, they have won some cups (which Houllier did) and yes 2 Champions league finals is a great achievement, but in the league they are as distant from the leaders as ever - no doubt they will moan how Benitez doesn't have the money of Utd or Chelsea so how can they compete - well Everton don't have anything like the money of Liverpool (and haven't for years), yet we're competing with them and not for the first time. Add to this the fact that when Moyes took over we were so inferior to Liverpool it's embarrassing, that emphasises even more how good a job Moyes has done.

 

The antics of Liverpools chairman have probably kept Benitez in a job on the sympathy vote, he's taken Liverpool nowhere in the league and become an embarrassing, stubborn figure. Moyes has transformed Everton, 100% and done as much has could reasonably expected. The only slight criticisms could be his cup runs, but he is starting to put that right this season now that we finally have a squad to cope with the demands of a league and cup run.

[carlmc25]

I have to admit that I stopped reading when I got to 'negitive counter attacking football'. It's quite obvious that your opinions isn't formed from actually watching us. I don't mean to be rude and not read all of it, but it's what I would class as uninformed shite.

 

We've destroyed a lot of teams this season with some fantastic football, we've also destroyed teams and come away with a draw and a lot. We control games from start to finish, including games against united and chelsea but came away with 2 points from all three games - that's why we are not winning titles, because we can't finish teams off at times. When we get an early goal, the score is normally 4 or more goals because we have a bit of confidence, but when it gets past half time, we stutter and get nervy because we don't have enough quality attacking players. Torres is wonderful, Babel is really starting to show his talent (despite being played out of position) and in the formation change gerrard is really starting to control games again instead of having to hold in the center but we have no special player to play along side torres (that's mainly why Kuyt is now playing wide right) we have no top wingers (babel is a striker playing on the wing out of necessity - although is much more comfortable in a front three / midfield 5) and that's a massive problem and some of out full backs don't get down the wing enough.

 

I believe that we are very close, much closer than the table has suggested over the last few seasons (despite being ahead of arsenal and one point from united the year before). We have some top class players in Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso, Agger. The problem with that is that only two of them are attacking players and whilst Lucas and Babel are sure fire top class players, it's going to take them another couple of years before they really are in the top bracket.

 

We needs at least one winger, although two would solve our wide problems and then maybe a player like diego ribas to give us more creativity against the teams that just sit and defend, which is most teams that come to anfield.

 

Brick wall + blunt widemen and strike force (torres aside) = a draw.

hmmm... yes you've won a few games by a few goals this year, but you've played rubbish in many a game as well, including the recent win against Middlesbrough. No one disputes Liverpool have a good first eleven, although I still don't think the balance is right in midfield, you still only have one truly decent striker (although if he actually played Crouch then he could do a job) and your wingers are poor, plus Alonso has become less and less impressive every season since he signed. No one disputes the quality of the first team, which is why Benitez has done such a poor job, with the players you have it's a disgrace you were already out of the league race by xmas. His rotation policy and refusal to play Crouch (when Kuyt is abysmal) is pure stubborness, everyone knows it doesn't work but he still keeps on with it. Then once again, the end of the season comes and yes Liverpool are fresh for the cups and now Benitez IS finally taking the league seriously (due to Everton's pressure) putting out full strength teams most weeks, if he had have done this all season then Liverpool would be worrying more about Utd/Arsenal than Everton. What makes it even more pathetic is, at the start of the season Benitez made all sorts of big noises about how the league was the priority, then he started to rotate big time about 10 games in and it all went pear shaped. If he doesn't win the European cup he should be out of a job.

[Charlie ton]

I have a lot of time for some reds fans, but some are just so blinded by their allegiance that they maintain absolutely zero partiality.

 

Wow, there's some major hypocrisy right there. So far on this forum I've read (by more than the lone one person) that Carsley is as good as Mascherano, that jagielka is better than carragher and agger, that the plural of penis is better than babel...

 

As blinkered as you can get. We all have our biases, but some of your are loonies. It's much more blinkered to suggest Carsley is beter than mascherano than it is to suggest that (the once world class) kewell is better than arteta, which he clearly isn't, the difference is that Kewell can't get a game for us and arteta is probably your best player.

[Charlie ton]

If he doesn't win the European cup he should be out of a job.

 

Well, there's a statement. What does Moyes have to do to stay in his job, win the uefa cup or he's out? no?

 

It's a hideous suggestion that if someone doesn't win the biggest prize in football that he should be out of a job. United have won that prize once since Alex Ferguson too charge and they have had truly great teams through the 90's and early 2000's, Mourinho couldn't take Chelsea to it, despite spending crazy amounts, arsenal have been to 1 final in their entire history...

 

It's not just something that should be expected. Yes, we've under performed in the league, yes, we need a few more players but if we go sacking the manager now, it starts another cycle of building, something we can't afford, what we need is to give him the money he needs now that we are in a position to just buy two or three top players instead of 6 or 7 ok players to oust the dross.

 

It's a building process, not an instant fix.

[jofanon]

Kinda wish I hadn't started the thread now!

 

On paper Liverpool probably have a better team mainly because they have 2 genuine world class players. We have some good players but I don't think any of them are world class (Lescott has the most potential IMHO).

 

But.

 

And I really mean this.

 

They are a bunch of tw*ts.

 

We are the ones exceeding ourselves. We are the ones with a real team ethos. We are the ones going forward despite overwhelming financial differences. We are the ones having to rebuild our club after our finest period was ruined by Liverpool.

 

I am desperatly proud of my team and the way they conduct themselves rather than over at Liverpool where they are whinging, cheating get's.

 

I believe in every area we are more successful. We have a much less egotistical team. We are better ambassadors. Our points per £ spent is vastly superior. We are the ones continually improving.

 

Do I think I've made myself clear?

[thompson013]

charlie ton,

again i'm not trying to turn this into a flame post (even though you stopped reading a quater of the way through and called my opinon shite) when i said negative football I'm talking about champions league not your boltons, west hams and derbys, if a team as expensivly put together as liverpool are, had to play ten men behind the ball counter attacking football against any team outside the BIG 3 then there are bigger problems then you 1st thought.

and if you had bothered to read my post then you would have seen i was critical about the Moyseier too.

 

but no doubt you will just hurl some more abuse swear at me and maintian that next year the premiership is going to be yours, (i have two RS brothers... heart breaking for my poor old dad :-( )

 

 

and to show im not being a complete anti liverpool person today, heres a statment, I'm worried, the only club that was capable of 100% beating liverpool in the CL just got knocked out by Arsenal. someone better pull there finger out and do the RS in the next round!

[carlmc25]

Well, there's a statement. What does Moyes have to do to stay in his job, win the uefa cup or he's out? no?

 

It's a hideous suggestion that if someone doesn't win the biggest prize in football that he should be out of a job. United have won that prize once since Alex Ferguson too charge and they have had truly great teams through the 90's and early 2000's, Mourinho couldn't take Chelsea to it, despite spending crazy amounts, arsenal have been to 1 final in their entire history...

 

It's not just something that should be expected. Yes, we've under performed in the league, yes, we need a few more players but if we go sacking the manager now, it starts another cycle of building, something we can't afford, what we need is to give him the money he needs now that we are in a position to just buy two or three top players instead of 6 or 7 ok players to oust the dross.

 

It's a building process, not an instant fix.

no Moyes doesn't have to win the UEFA as Everton's season is already surpassing any expectations of the most optimistic fan. Liverpool's, on the other hand, is a shambles and the only saving grace would be another European Cup - so if you don't win it, Benitez should go.

 

Thompson, don't worry about it, as much as I hate Utd they're through and I can't see Liverpool beating them over two legs. If it does look like we're going to finish 4th then I'll have to begrudgingly cheer Utd on if they meet Liverpool. I have a lot of time for Liverpool, my brothers are Liverpool fans and in an ideal world we'd finish 1st and Liverpool 2nd, but some Liverpool fans are so stuck in the glory days they don't open their eyes to the limits of the current team/management.

[Charlie ton]

On paper Liverpool probably have a better team mainly because they have 2 genuine world class players.

 

Maybe you and I have different definitions of world class but Mascherano, Carragher (who was called "the best centerback in europe" by the best ever centerback, baresi) Reina and Alonso are all world class players.

 

You don't have to be attacking to be world class. We also have some potential top young players like Agger, lucas, skrtel and Babel.

 

As for the comment another poster made about us being ten men behind the ball and counter attacking... it's time for you to start watching games before you form an opinion that you'd like to be true.

[Bill]

Seems like we are all ganging up on you mate, but you are making some silly points, Like this one...........

 

It's a hideous suggestion that if someone doesn't win the biggest prize in football that he should be out of a job. United have won that prize once since Alex Ferguson too charge and they have had truly great teams through the 90's and early 2000's, Mourinho couldn't take Chelsea to it, despite spending crazy amounts, Arsenal have been to 1 final in their entire history...

 

The difference between those 3 clubs and yours is that in the last 14 years the've won all the premiership titles between them.

[Charlie ton]

Seems like we are all ganging up on you mate, but you are making some silly points, Like this one...........

 

It's a hideous suggestion that if someone doesn't win the biggest prize in football that he should be out of a job. United have won that prize once since Alex Ferguson too charge and they have had truly great teams through the 90's and early 2000's, Mourinho couldn't take Chelsea to it, despite spending crazy amounts, Arsenal have been to 1 final in their entire history...

 

The difference between those 3 clubs and yours is that in the last 14 years the've won all the premiership titles between them.

 

 

and rafa hasn't won it in 3.... fucking wow. Sack him now. Unless you blame him for all of it, that is?

 

Silly point? I'd be silly to suggest anything else.

 

in the last 40 odd years they have all won the biggest prize as much as we have in the last 3... same amount of finals, too.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Charlie ton

[Josh Berno]

Its people like you who need to be to be sat in a chair and shown the whole season so far of Liverpools games and Evertons games... and you should see the difference but no your to busy with your head up ur arse!

 

Go jump off a tall building and if you dont die jump off again you imbaseal!!!

 

The difference between those 3 clubs and yours is that in the last 14 years the've won all the premiership titles between them.

 

Well sed Licker btw

Edited March 6, 2008 by Josh Berno

[Charlie ton]

Its people like you who need to be to be sat in a chair and shown the whole season so far of Liverpools games and Evertons games... and you should see the difference but no your to busy with your head up ur arse!

 

Of course I'll see the difference. Liverpool have scored more goals and let in fewer and lost far fewer games.

 

Stupid comment really.

[Madmatt]

charlie, how about u fuck off back under the rock u crawled out of? ur the reason liverpool are disliked. when u were playing shit, did u come bother us then? no u didnt.

 

Mods please just ban this dickhead he is clearly here just to wind us up and he suceeded

Edited March 6, 2008 by Madmatt

[adamefc1]

Based On That Performance Tonight

 

Tranmeres First Team =P