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Times Deputy Football Editor Writes Off Everton


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#1 Louis

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 11:24

Merseyside derby means more to Everton, but a good spanking wouldn't go amiss

The big clash at Anfield has everyone talking. It's a big matchup of rivals who were once part of the same team but are now increasing bitter antagonists. Yes, Hicks v Gillett is turning out to be a stormer.

Everton? That's just a bit of local difficulty.

Of course, beating Everton will be a nice way of erasing the memories of last week and the events at Old Trafford. And it'll serve as a nice warm-up for a big Champions League clash with Arsenal.

But biggest game of the season? Only in the crazy world of the Bitter Blue.

Relations between the two sets of fans have deteriorated in recent years. It's increasingly hard to have a rational conversation with an Evertonian. The phrase, "If it wasn't for Heysel" has become a destructive mantra that has changed the nature of the relationship between the two sets of fans. For some, the shame of Brussels was that it stopped the 'People's Club' from claiming their rightful place as the best team in Europe. The 39 dead? Extras in Everton's "tragedy". It's deluded nonsense on so many levels but, for too many, it has come to be seen as the moment when Everton's destiny changed, when they were robbed of their chance to be a big club.

It has spawned a new ugliness in the city on derby day. Last year, there were Evertonians in the Anfield Road end making gestures mocking the Hillsborough dead and and holding up copies of The Sun to antagoinse the home fans. This was never quite "the friendly derby" of popular fiction but the younger elements on each side can't even remember a time when it felt cordial.

Which is a shame. Especially for those who remember the mid-80s. Then, for the FA Cup Final and Charity Shield games, thousands of Scousers arrived on the same trains at Euston, red and blue ski hats mixed up as we stated our collective identity with chants of "Merseyside".

The derby has become a much bigger game for Everton than us. And that galls them more than anything. Recalling the old days, I wish they weren't so resentful.

Looking forward, a good spanking at Anfield would put Everton in their place and make them even more bitter. I could live with that. All in the spirit of comradeship, of course...

TONY EVANS


Source - The Times
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#2 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 11:32

I want to be the first to say it; twit.
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#3 Blue Oz

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 11:48

:angry: :angry: :angry: Then let me be the second twit!!!!!!!

I thought the times was an intellectual paper not just full of rs bias crap like this
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#4 BLUE-TAC

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 12:03

breath, 1 2 3 4 and relax, and breath, and relax....it's no good...............'TWAT'!

Nice neutral journalsim, i'll say it again.....'TWAT'!
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#5 Tricky Trev

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 12:11

What a cock hasn't got a jar of glue
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#6 MikeO

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 12:24

It's a disgrace that their deputy football editor is allowed to publish such a one-eyed blog. There is supposedly an Everton equivalent alongside it in the "Merseyside Fanzone" called "We need Big Dunc" ( <_< no we fucking don't) but the link doesn't work.

There is a proper unbiased article though...

David Moyes, the Everton manager, would never be drawn into boasting about his team before a Merseyside derby, but the Scot feels that the league table is a demonstration of his club’s progress rather than Liverpool’s failings. Having finished above their neighbours to qualify for the Champions League in 2005, only for Liverpool to gain entry by winning the competition, Moyes takes his team to Anfield tomorrow with seven matches left and the opportunity to erase the two-point deficit to Rafael Benítez’s team.

While Everton’s attempts to break into the top four appear to have been more about catching Liverpool than Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal, Moyes, who has been in charge at Goodison Park since 2002, believes that his team’s strong position is a result of consistent improvement.

“We are in that mix again and have been in and around it a few times now,” Moyes said. “We want to keep fighting to get to fourth place. The squad is quite light at the minute. We are a different football club [from his first derby match in charge] and we are looked at in a different light.

“There are signs that Everton are moving in the right direction and we need to keep getting as close to the top teams as we possibly can. We have been edging closer and closer year in, year out. I remember bits of the run during 2005. The players had to grind out a few results. We finished that season with 61 points and qualified. As we well know, that points tally isn’t going to happen. We were always looking at Liverpool as they were pushing us hard.

“It would be a tremendous boost. Whoever gets it, whether it would be Liverpool or Everton, will benefit, but we have got closer to them every year. We have been in fourth for a while this season and we have been there before as well, so we shouldn’t be too surprised about our position. The first priority is, at the minute, to make sure we finish no worse than fifth. That gets us back into Europe.”

Derby matches in the mid 1990s were characterised by Joe Royle’s “Dogs of War”, but Moyes believes that an attractive game is not beyond the realms of possibility. “I think it is a compliment to say that the quality of our football has increased,” he said. “I still believe we always want to give teams good games. I want us to play good football. But you have to be competitive and we had to bridge the gap from what we had to what Liverpool had. Now the gap is getting much closer and it’s allowing us to play better football.”

Motivation is never a problem in these matches, but Moyes insists that the 2-1 defeat by Liverpool in October, when Dirk Kuyt scored two penalties, will not be on his players’ minds before the short trip to Anfield. Tony Hibbert and Phil Neville were sent off in the match at Goodison Park, with Kuyt escaping with a booking for a wild lunge, and a challenge by Jamie Carragher on Joleon Lescott should have resulted in Everton being awarded a chance to equalise from the penalty spot in the closing stages.

However, Moyes, who will be without Tim Cahill, the midfield player, for the rest of the season with a broken foot, said: “In football, you can’t think like that. It’s gone. You move on. I think what happened gave us a lot of strength because we were united in thinking that we were wrongly done to that day.”



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#7 EFCfanatic

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 12:59

Nobber. Deluded. Redshite.
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#8 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 13:05

http://www.mirror.co...89520-20366518/


Another twit.
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#9 MikeO

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 13:11

Makes you wonder what qualifications you need to work for Rupert Murdoch/the tabloids.

GCSE Grade G in spelling seems to be enough, though most of them would struggle to achieve that without spellcheck I guess.
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#10 Louis

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 14:12

Actually, I think Derek McGovern only got the job because of his brother?
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#11 thebluenose

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 14:16

http://www.mirror.co...89520-20366518/
Another twit.


WTF was that all about??? this is why i hate derbies. because the RS loving media always fucking talk shite about us.
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#12 Charlie ton

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 14:56

That's a shite article, no matter what side you're looking at it from. He's obviously a twat that's best ignored.

Then again, some of the stuff Moyes said in that article is either biased or just false, too.
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#13 MikeO

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 15:26

Adding some more balance, Brian Viner (confirmed Evertonian) in the Independent...http://www.independe...bed-802419.html

Love the ending...

It is time to reclaim the club's birthright as one of English football's powerhouses, and where better to assert that birthright than Everton's home from 1884 to 1892, when the Anfield tenancy was taken by a new team, a bunch of upstarts called Liverpool FC? It is time to answer the clarion call of history!
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#14 Niall

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 16:21

Lads, poor journalists write opinion pieces.
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#15 aaron

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 18:51

anyone got email addresses for these bellends please?
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#16 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 29 Mar 2008 - 22:46

If we're goiing to send them emails, lets write good emails..don't play into their hands and give them the chance to say "see, I told you".

We should be proud of what Moyes and our beloved club is achieving - we haven't thrown the kind of money at competing as Liverppol have and I think we're earning a lot of respect from footy fans around the country.
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#17 MikeO

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Posted 30 Mar 2008 - 09:39

Independent on Sunday...

By Steve Tongue
Sunday, 30 March 2008


There can only be one thing worse than trying to restore a football club to what everyone considers to be their rightful place: namely, attempting to do so while the hated neighbours up the road are winning trophy after trophy. Perhaps a society should be formed for mutual support; founder members would be Everton, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur.

The latter trio have, of course, had their moments even in the past 20 years in the shadow of Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal respectively. Yet even then, the old enemy somehow seemed to have the last word. Spurs, all set to beat the other north London team to a Champions' League place, fell sick and failed on the last day of the season. Everton actually made it, only to lose in the qualifying round (doh!) after the other lot had staged the greatest comeback in 50 years of European Cup finals.

Suggest, however, that a "Second Fiddle Society" or "Poor Relations Association" might be an appropriate tag and hackles will rise, for it is important to believe that there is nothing permanent about this condition. Hence the excitement on Merseyside since the new year about the possibility of Everton again pipping Liverpool to fourth place in the Premier League.

They go to Anfield this afternoon two points behind the neighbours, and could therefore finish the day in front. That in itself is a source of pride to David Moyes, who is nevertheless torn between reflecting positively on the progress made during his six impressive years as managerand emphasising the gap in resources between the two clubs.

The positive bits first: "Everton is a great football club," Moyes says, "and we've got it back on track now and going in the right direction. We're speeding along nicely and catching the people in front of us. Now we want to overtake them."

The lowest point of the season, in every sense, came after a controversial 2-1 home defeat at the end of October by Liverpool, who won with a last-minute penalty against nine men (Tony Hibbert and Phil Neville had been sent off). Everton were left in 10th place, apparently suffering, as most teams do, from the rigours of a Uefa Cup campaign. But some excellent European form seemed for once to carry over into the League as well as offering invaluable experience to younger players.

More positives for the manager: "We played 10 games in Europe, won eight, drew one and lost one before we went out [on penalties to Fiorentina]. So if you looked at that you would have to say, 'Very good, Everton'. So that's why we'll be confident if we get back into the Uefa Cup, and that's why if we're fortunate enough to get into the Champions' League we'll be confident of getting through the qualifier and into the group stage."

Moyes is speaking on Friday afternoon at the smart new training complex in Halewood, another element of the club that has proved a positive one in attracting prospective recruits to the club – often young British ones. "I think Everton's now attractive to a lot of players," he says. "People are saying we're actually quite progressive, quite young, robust, trying to make things better.

"Goodison's an intimidating place to play, with great supporters. Joleon Lescott's come here and done really well, and maybe next season we'll be looking for Leighton Baines to be in a position to get in the England squad as well. Phil Jagielka is quite close, he's had a good season. And if young players want a route through into one of the top teams, we try and promote them if they are good enough."

So far, so good. But will so good only go so far? The players mentioned there cost £4m-£5m, from smaller English clubs. Last summer, Everton's transfer record may have been broken with the £11.25m purchase of Aiyegbeni Yakubu, but meanwhile Liverpool were able to spend twice as much on one of Europe's outstanding strikers, Fernando Torres.

Moyes does not attempt to pretend the clubs are yet in the same financial league, which makes it all the more important for Everton to reach the League that rewards all participants (as long as they pass through that qualifying round) with such mountains of euros.

"To be fair, in the last six years, you'd have to say on a business plan, 'Everton, first class, you haven't tried to bankrupt the club, you haven't spent at silly levels, you haven't done – dare I say it – a Leeds United'. We've been in a difficult financial state but now we've got full houses, money on the pitch.

"So you'd have to praise the board and the chairman for the way they've done it. If we keep going on that way, we could get where we want. I'd say the bigger question is the investment that's going on throughout the Premier League now means that Everton will need to keep up with the Joneses. And the bit we might find difficult would be if we are trying to buy Champions' League players. There are some players who only see themselves as playing in the Champions' League and that's a different level of player again. I don't know if we've got to that level yet. If you buy one, he'll maybe drop downfor a year or so but then he'll be looking to get back there."

Everton must therefore look to get back there too. Moyes is self-confessedly enough of a romantic and Everton a club sufficiently rooted in their community to hope it can be done without finding what he calls "a big sugar daddy".

Having their finances underpinned by an amenable theatre impresario with a good Scouse accent in Bill Kenwright suits them just fine. "Hopefully it's still not all about money, hope-fully it's down to a bit of good management, good coaching, good scouting, great supporters and not just down to findingthis guy out there who'll come in and make everything better," Moyes says.

On a day when the local evening newspaper's front page was devoted to the latest outburst from one of Liverpool's American owners about the other, the point was well made. While Evertonians are traditionally resentful of a perceived imbalance in publicity given to the two clubs, they are currentlylaughing up their blue sleeves at their rivals' self-harming. Moyes is justified in believing that in the wider world beyond the Mersey, his team will have a lot of neutral support in their quest to gatecrash the Fab Four of English football.

Everton, once Joe Royle's "dogs of war", are still the underdogs a decade later. With James McFadden and Alan Stubbs sold, Tim Cahill and James Vaughan now among the injured, Moyes admits: "This is where we become a little bit more stretched than the others."

Across town, in contrast, Rafa Benitez was claiming to have agreed the transfer this summer of a player who will be in next season's starting XI. What was indisputable was Benitez's assessment: "It is clear we are in a crucial period." Starting at Anfield, 4pm today.

Edited by MikeO, 30 Mar 2008 - 09:40.

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#18 MikeO

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Posted 30 Mar 2008 - 10:33

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#19 johny

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 19:26

sad thing is a lot of what he wrote is true. With my own eyes I've seen young everton lads walking along annie road waving copies of the sun, and again in the ground, not to mention the lads and fellas sqashing their faces like people getting crushed to death both in the away end at anfield and the park end at Goodison. I notice Ian Ross missed this out of his statement, and while on the subject of Joleon Lescott songs, he forgot to metion the song Everton sing with its references to Hysel and Hillsborough too. Instead he chose to bring up a subject which was overblown at the time, and done to death since. Strange that.
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#20 MikeO

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 19:54

sad thing is a lot of what he wrote is true. With my own eyes I've seen young everton lads walking along annie road waving copies of the sun, and again in the ground, not to mention the lads and fellas sqashing their faces like people getting crushed to death both in the away end at anfield and the park end at Goodison. I notice Ian Ross missed this out of his statement, and while on the subject of Joleon Lescott songs, he forgot to metion the song Everton sing with its references to Hysel and Hillsborough too. Instead he chose to bring up a subject which was overblown at the time, and done to death since. Strange that.


Pissed off with reds trying to take the moral high ground here, Ian Ross didn't excuse Evertonian behaviour, he just balanced the one sided comments from Benitez.

Fucking disgraceful and sick things done and said by supporters of probably all football clubs and you're just plain stupid if you think we're any worse than you are.
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#21 johny

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 20:04

Pissed off with reds trying to take the moral high ground here, Ian Ross didn't excuse Evertonian behaviour, he just balanced the one sided comments from Benitez.

Fucking disgraceful and sick things done and said by supporters of probably all football clubs and you're just plain stupid if you think we're any worse than you are.



isn't that exactly what Ross and most people posting on this forum are trying to do?

and i do think you're worse, some are anyway. If you think that Liverpool fans would sing songs and make gestures moking dead scousers then you're way off the mark. I've been to plenty of Derbys both at anfield an Goodison and I know what I see and hear from both sets of fans. In the last 5 or 6 years its deteriorated completely, I've seen and heard plenty worse from your lot than ours.
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#22 Romey 1878

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 20:17

Don't Liverpool fans sing about the Munich plane crash? :rolleyes:
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#23 MikeO

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 20:33

Don't Liverpool fans sing about the Munich plane crash? :rolleyes:


But Johny said they wouldn't sing about dead scousers, dead Mancunians is OK apparently.

Coming on here saying, "You're sicker than us" is just pathetic.

We're the same people, the same demographic, football fans....and among us are an element of morons. All teams, all cities have them. Suggestions for a solution would be more helpful than ridiculous generalisations.
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#24 johny

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 22:15

But Johny said they wouldn't sing about dead scousers, dead Mancunians is OK apparently.

Coming on here saying, "You're sicker than us" is just pathetic.

We're the same people, the same demographic, football fans....and among us are an element of morons. All teams, all cities have them. Suggestions for a solution would be more helpful than ridiculous generalisations.


were suddenly taling about the mancs now are we, this was about the derby. liverpool and everton have both sung about munich for decades so playing that card doesn't really cut much ice with me. unless you're saying that either a. we were singing it on sunday, or b. you were retaliating on behalf of the mancs, then it doesn't realy apply to this discussion does it?


and you're right, we are from the same demographic, the same people, from the same families, schools, places of work etc.. so how about this for a solution, instead of turning a blind eye to, and ignoring, sections of your own fans rubbing other scousers dead relatives in their faces, you 1st admit to the problem, which is both a recent one and on the increase, and sort it out in-house. Remember that fella shouting out in the park end during the minutes silence, go told by plenty of people around him to shut the fuck up etc... Don't see that happening now though.
Thats one solution to start with?
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#25 MikeO

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Posted 01 Apr 2008 - 23:10

Again, not helpful. "Sort it out in house" for sure, it's maybe the only way....but you're in the wrong house.
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#26 johny

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Posted 02 Apr 2008 - 07:44

Again, not helpful. "Sort it out in house" for sure, it's maybe the only way....but you're in the wrong house.



whats not helpful mike? you asked for suggested solutions, i gave you one.

I'll simplify the point i was making to help clear my views.

I think that the inclusion by Evertonians of lines in songs and gestureas at the game refering to hillsborough marks a new low point in the relations between liverpool and everton fans at the derby. A low point that has not yet been surpassed.

Either you agree with that or you don't. Munich and the mancs don't come into it, everything i've said here has been in the context of the derby. You said I thought singing about munich is acceptable, which is bollocks. If you can point out where i've said this i'll send you a blue peter bagde.

we have some right nobheads following us, more than ever since 2005. But that is a line that we wouldn't cross, theres enough people in our support who see themselves as scouse 1st and red 2nd to make sure of that.
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