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Villa Aren't The Main Worry!


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#1 c1982

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 13:46

The worst result we could get against Villa is a draw...

As long as Pompy don't finish 5th we'll be playing European football next season.

So if we're going to dick about and fizzle out at the business end of the season - let's hope at least Villa stay ahead of Pompy. If pompy finish 5th and Villa 6th - villa get intertoto, we hope for fair play! - if Villa finish 5th and Pompy 6th and us 7th, at least we get intertoto!

Obviously I'd love us to beat Villa but if we don't a draw would be a worse result than Villa beating us!!! I'm sure some will disagree but considering run-ins etc.. that's how I see it!!!
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#2 MikeO

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 14:41

Not strictly true. If Pompey win the FA Cup they'll qualify anyway, so Villa 5th, Pompey 6th (if they win the cup) and us sixth puts us in intertoto.

Same would apply if Villa and Pompey positions reversed.

For some reason, according to the BBC, "If Portsmouth win the FA Cup and finish fifth in the Premier League, the sixth-placed team in the league would enter the Uefa Cup, not the FA Cup runners-up." I thought the rules as they stood would have given the place to Cardiff but apparently not.

Just to depress a little further, England have fallen behind Norway in the fair play league. If it stays that way the Premier would enter a draw with (probably) six other countries for two available places.
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#3 c1982

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 14:54

Not strictly true. If Pompey win the FA Cup they'll qualify anyway, so Villa 5th, Pompey 6th (if they win the cup) and us sixth puts us in intertoto.

Same would apply if Villa and Pompey positions reversed.

For some reason, according to the BBC, "If Portsmouth win the FA Cup and finish fifth in the Premier League, the sixth-placed team in the league would enter the Uefa Cup, not the FA Cup runners-up." I thought the rules as they stood would have given the place to Cardiff but apparently not.

Just to depress a little further, England have fallen behind Norway in the fair play league. If it stays that way the Premier would enter a draw with (probably) six other countries for two available places.


That first statement is what I've just said in the original post! (you mean us 7th by the way).

We wouldn't get europe if pompy finish 5th (regardless if they win f.a.cup. Villa will get intertoto and pompy/cardiff will get uefa places. There is still the debate with FIFA over cardiff not being english but that'll be sorted and cardiff will be allowed in.

So my point again - pompy finishing 5th would be a worse case scenario!!!
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#4 MikeO

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 15:11

Quite right, I did mean seventh, sorry.

Still,

Portsmouth win FA Cup then Villa 5th, Pompey 6th and us seventh means we do play in the Intertoto.
ditto......ditto.....ditto.....then Pompey 5th, Villa 6th and us seventh we still play Intertoto, makes no difference which order they finish in.

Cardiff win FA Cup we wait for the FA to rule.

Your argument makes sense if Pompey lose the cup and are denied a UEFA place by the FA allowing Cardiff in.
Then as (I think I'm right in saying) Pompey haven't entered Intertoto so if they finish sixth they'd miss out completely and the place would go to seventh.

I think :huh: .

Let's just beat Villa and Newcastle eh? Simpler (hopefully :unsure: ).
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#5 SheedysRightFoot

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 15:15

If Portsmouth win the FA Cup then the extra UEFA Cup place goes to the league, not the losing finalist - it only goes to the losing finalist if the FA Cup winner has achieved a Champions League place via the league

So, Portsmouth's position is irrelevent

It's Villa to worry about

Everton MUST beat them
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#6 Romey 1878

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 15:23

Quite right, I did mean seventh, sorry.

Still,

Portsmouth win FA Cup then Villa 5th, Pompey 6th and us seventh means we do play in the Intertoto.
ditto......ditto.....ditto.....then Pompey 5th, Villa 6th and us seventh we still play Intertoto, makes no difference which order they finish in.

Cardiff win FA Cup we wait for the FA to rule.

Your argument makes sense if Pompey lose the cup and are denied a UEFA place by the FA allowing Cardiff in.
Then as (I think I'm right in saying) Pompey haven't entered Intertoto so if they finish sixth they'd miss out completely and the place would go to seventh.

I think :huh: .

Let's just beat Villa and Newcastle eh? Simpler (hopefully :unsure: ).



But Villa have applied for the Intertoto Cup as well and the place goes to the highest placed team, so if they finish above us they get the place. Im getting confused lol.

Good job Pompey are losing 2-0 atm though :D
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#7 MikeO

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 16:41

But Villa have applied for the Intertoto Cup as well and the place goes to the highest placed team, so if they finish above us they get the place.


True but if Pompey get in via the cup then the higher placed of us/Villa get UEFA so they won't need the Intertoto place.

Hope that sending off at City hasn't fucked our fair play league chance.

Another thought. If we qualify for the Intertoto and then (assuming we stay where we are in the FA fair play league, which is fourth behind ManU, Spurs and Liverpool) England get a fair play place in the draw before the UEFA cup final do we move up? I guess we do.
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#8 c1982

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 17:02

If pompy finish 5th and win fa cup then cardiff get uefa cup place.
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#9 Jackelz

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 17:11

I do think its silly the ways these rules are kind of made up as they go along every season.


Botom line is we HAVE to be villa and then we can take it from there

Edited by Jackelz, 20 Apr 2008 - 17:12.

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#10 MikeO

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 17:21

If pompy finish 5th and win fa cup then cardiff get uefa cup place.


Not according to the BBC website. Says specifically here (http://news.bbc.co.u...all/7292892.stm)

"If Portsmouth win the FA Cup and finish fifth in the Premier League, the sixth-placed team in the league would enter the Uefa Cup, not the FA Cup runners-up (Cardiff).

If Cardiff City win the FA Cup then, as it stands, they are not allowed to qualify for the Uefa Cup because they are registered with the Football Association of Wales and would not be put forward as one of England's representatives. In that instance, the FA Cup runners-up (Portsmouth) would take their place in the Uefa Cup - although the Football Association are reviewing their rules, and Uefa have also said that they would consider handing Cardiff a wildcard into the competition if they win the FA Cup."


So nothing cut and dried about Cardiff going in at all yet.

I do think its silly the ways these rules are kind of made up as they go along every season.


They're not. The rules are fixed, it's just that people have trouble understanding them every season....although Cardiff's success this year has caused a bit of confusion.

Edited by MikeO, 20 Apr 2008 - 17:24.

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#11 Jackelz

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 17:33

They're not. The rules are fixed, it's just that people have trouble understanding them every season....although Cardiff's success this year has caused a bit of confusion.



well the cardiff thing is what I was talking about as well as the season we finished 4th and the way they just decided to put liverpool back in the champions league as they won it there was confusion surrounding that aswell and weather we were going to get kicked out.
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#12 MikeO

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 17:41

Cardiff thing is an unexpected situation that they just need to make a decision on one way or the other.

And we were never going to miss out on Champs league, we qualified fair and square and it was just a question of whether UEFA would give a wild card to Liverpool as holders.

Anyway, getting back to where we started...

"As long as Pompy don't finish 5th we'll be playing European football next season."

If that's the case we took a big step towards it this afternoon.

But if you're in the SRF camp....

Portsmouth are not the problem....
Aston Villa are the problem:


...we're still in big trouble. Take your pick :huh: .

Edited by MikeO, 20 Apr 2008 - 17:45.

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#13 EFCfanatic

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 18:22

Christ I'm confused.

Now then if Pompey win the fa cup AND finish fifth AND cardiff are denied a place in the uefa cup would that place THEN go to 6th?
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#14 c1982

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 18:23

The BBC report must be on the basis that Cardiff are not allowed in the UEFA Cup, but generally the FA Cup runner-up with go into UEFA if the winners have already qualified for europe.

I expect Cardiff to be allowed in if it comes to that, so that would mean we can't have Pompy finishing 5th!!! as it takes up the 2 UEFA cup places (cardiff and pompy).

So my initial statement that villa aren't the problem is true in the sense (pressuming us, villa and pompy take up 5th-7th - SURELY!) Villa can finish in 5th, 6th or 7th and we'll at least be in intertoto - but if Pompy finish 5th and us 7th we'll miss out!

Of course if Cardiff are refused UEFA cup entry we've got no worries!

Edited by c1982, 20 Apr 2008 - 18:26.

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#15 Randomness

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Posted 20 Apr 2008 - 18:39

from os

Everton can clarify the European qualification scenarios for next season...

Cardiff City's progression to the FA Cup final has created an area of uncertainty because the FA has prviously not nominated Welsh clubs to compete in European competition.

A statement from the FA read: "Following Sunday's FA Cup Semi-Final, The FA has been discussing the issue of Cardiff City entering the UEFA Cup next season should they win The FA Cup.

"We will also continue to discuss this with The FA of Wales and UEFA.

"At this stage we have not ruled out Cardiff City being entered into Europe via The FA Cup should they win it.

"However, further conversations need to take place but we would expect to have final clarification on this before the end of the month."

If Everton finish fourth - we would qualify for the Champions League UNLESS an English side wins the Champions League and finishes outside the top four. We would then play in the Uefa Cup.

If Everton finish fifth - we would qualify for the Uefa Cup regardless of any other scenario.

If Everton finish sixth - we would play in the Intertoto Cup UNLESS the FA decide Cardiff City can't have one of England's Uefa Cup places AND Portsmouth finish fifth. We would then play in the Uefa Cup.

If Cardiff ARE permitted to take one of England's spots, then we would play in the Intertoto Cup.

If Everton finish seventh - we would play in the Intertoto ONLY IF the FA decide Cardiff City can't have one of England's Uefa Cup places AND Portsmouth finish fifth.

IF the FA decide Cardiff CAN have one of England's places, there would be only one Uefa Cup place from the league - awarded to the team finishing fifth. The Intertoto Cup place would then go to the highest-placed applicants who haven't qualified by other means. Everton, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Manchester City, Middlesbrough, Newcastle and Tottenham Hotspur have applied for the Intertoto Cup. Spurs have qualified already through the Carling Cup. Portsmouth have not applied.

Therefore, if Portsmouth finish sixth and Everton seventh, Everton would qualify for the Intertoto Cup. If Aston Villa, Blackburn or Man City finished sixth and Everton seventh, Everton would NOT qualify for the Intertoto Cup.

There is also a possibility an English side could qualify for the Uefa Cup via Uefa's Fair Play league. England are currently one of several nations who could be awarded an additional Uefa Cup place, with Everton well-placed in the Premier League disciplinary standings. Full details of this situation are yet to be clarified by Uefa.

Please note that the scenarios listed above are hypothetical and are subject to change. The information above has not been ratified by Uefa, FA or the Premier League
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#16 adamefc1

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Posted 21 Apr 2008 - 22:14

Best Case Scenario
We Get Behind The Team On Sunday
We Play Well
Beat Aston Villa

Finish Fifth
Problem Solved
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#17 c1982

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Posted 24 Apr 2008 - 12:21

This chap knew what I was on about when I started this topic!!!

http://www.evertonfc..... PRESUMPTUOUS
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#18 MikeO

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Posted 24 Apr 2008 - 12:51

This chap knew what I was on about when I started this topic!!!


Are you Geoff Harrison in disguise :lol: ?

Like his blog actually, voted for him when he won the competition to be "fan blogger."

I'm not going to think about this anymore because I had blood coming out of my ears last time, but....just in case...

Does the Gwladys have time to learn a few Villa songs before Sunday :P ?
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#19 scouser_george_efc

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Posted 25 Apr 2008 - 12:38

IF WE PLAY TO ARE BEST AND WE HAVE NO INJURYS BESIDES CAHILL THEN WE SHOULD WIN THIS ABOUT 3-1 I WOULD PLAY HOWARD .... NEV YOBO LESCOTT BAINES ... ARTETA MANNY CARSLEY PIENAAR ... AJ YAK
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#20 Bill

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Posted 25 Apr 2008 - 13:28

No need to shout George. ( caps lock ) :)
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#21 MikeO

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Posted 26 Apr 2008 - 16:15

City losing today ensures that if Pompey win the Cup we're in the Intertoto at worst.
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#22 c1982

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Posted 26 Apr 2008 - 17:04

We'll def finish top 7 - but pompy finishing 5th and winning the cup and us finishing 7th could still result in us missing out on europe - depending on the results of the UEFA ruling over Cardiff in europe.

Blackburn and Everton wins would make my head hurt less at this time tomorrow!!!
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#23 MikeO

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Posted 26 Apr 2008 - 18:36

We'll def finish top 7 - but pompy finishing 5th and winning the cup and us finishing 7th could still result in us missing out on europe - depending on the results of the UEFA ruling over Cardiff in europe.


Already been ruled couple of days ago, someone's posted it somewhere....if Pompey win the cup and finish fifth the UEFA place goes to sixth, not Cardiff. 100% done and dusted.
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#24 c1982

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Posted 26 Apr 2008 - 18:46

Same goes if cardiff win cup?

So if that's the case pompy are already in europe - win or lose...
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#25 MikeO

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Posted 26 Apr 2008 - 19:03

Cardiff win the cup they get the place, but not if they're runners up and Pompey finish fifth.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ity/7350681.stm
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