How Do We Go Forward?

[carlmc25]

any maybe Kenwright does, in actual fact, know what he's doing having been guided by experts rather than fans. Only time will tell.

[StevO]

his current guiding expert i business is mr wyness, who has a history that includes bankruptcy.

[carlmc25]

his current guiding expert i business is mr wyness, who has a history that includes bankruptcy.

I'm sure they would have paid experts in many fields to look at it, planning, building, finance, surely you don't think Kenwright just sat down and said hey 'Mr Wyness what do you think, we should move to Kirkby, ok then'...

[StevO]

i believe kenwright does what he thinks is best for the club, but i believe wyness does whats best for wyness.

 

kenwright isnt the bad guy, i just think he employed someone who has not been successfull in business for many years. and as ceo wyness is the man in charge of efc, and that is what worries me more than anything.

[carlmc25]

i believe kenwright does what he thinks is best for the club, but i believe wyness does whats best for wyness.

 

kenwright isnt the bad guy, i just think he employed someone who has not been successfull in business for many years. and as ceo wyness is the man in charge of efc, and that is what worries me more than anything.

I'm not saying you're wrong, to be honest I don't have a clue whether Kirkby is the best option or not! I just think the best thing to do is trust the club to make the right decision, if they do mess it up then obviously then have a go (some may say then it's too late, I know). I'm sure they know of the ill feeling towards the move and I'm sure they've explored every possibility. Hopefully in a few years we'll all look back and think nice one BK!

[StevO]

i dont think i do trust the club anymore. if we keep trusting them to do the right thing we would never have got rid of johnson years ago. we must question them, this is our club. they are there to serve us, the customer as wyness would call us. this man has been trusted with the club, and in recent years we have imporved on the pitch due to good work by dm and the board giving him the money, but to get that money we have got further and further into debt and sold all the clubs assets. scary times ahead i think.

[Everton_Worshiper]

Who mentioned KEIOC? Oh and nice to see the admission that KEIOC put spin on the stadium move too.

I may come across as anti-KEIOC but I am not, I am neither. I always look at all facts from the "outside" rather than picking a side and being blind to all information.

 

If we have the exact same stadium, exact same transportation "issues" on a site within the city boundaries there is no need for a group named KEIOC, it would be in the city. Would it get such negativity around the stadium quality if it is in the city?

 

Anyway, I think there is a split amongst fans and we will never agree (unless documents are leaked from somewhere with the facts to prove either theory/beliefs).

[CraccerC]

i'm not a KEIOC fan, and i was previously pro-kirkby, but the more i've researched the more i'm very much against it. as far as trusting the club is concerned, i lost that a long time ago.

Edited July 9, 2008 by CraccerC

[StevO]

Who mentioned KEIOC? Oh and nice to see the admission that KEIOC put spin on the stadium move too.

I may come across as anti-KEIOC but I am not, I am neither. I always look at all facts from the "outside" rather than picking a side and being blind to all information.

 

If we have the exact same stadium, exact same transportation "issues" on a site within the city boundaries there is no need for a group named KEIOC, it would be in the city. Would it get such negativity around the stadium quality if it is in the city?

 

Anyway, I think there is a split amongst fans and we will never agree (unless documents are leaked from somewhere with the facts to prove either theory/beliefs).

 

im not with KEIOC or part of anything they do, but i hold lets of respect for what they are doing.

 

im not being blind to one side, ive researched as much as i can, from club spin and keioc spin and even the official docs given to kbc, ive based my opinions on what i believe is best for the club, the opinions of others who have built stadiums i.e croke park, coventrys face of a stadium. the fact that moving away from a growing city is bad for bussiness, the many financial constraints, the bad traffic state in kirkby.

 

as i have stated before, we would hva the same problems with scotland road, but the difference is the city centre can handle the extra congestion and has the space to expand if need be, that is not possible in kirkby, not to this scale anyway.

[Louis]

you are right thou, it would have been the same at the docks too. as will scotland road.

 

I don't agree with you there Ste. Kings Dock from what I remember did have some traffic problems and Joe Anderson (the labour councillor) was very vocal about them. However I genuinely believe that Scotland Road is the best choice for Everton, I don't understand why you say that it will be on a par with problems at the Kings Dock.

 

Having said that, it's not very fair to say Kings Dock has problems at the moment. It's mainly to do with the fact that the nearest railway station is James Street (plans are underway to build a station near the arena) and that The Strand is under going major roadworks. Once these problems are rectified it may flow more easily. Don't forget the new bus depot is right by Albert Dock now so the problems wouldn't be that bad surely.

 

 

The biggest problem with Scotland Road as during the construction phase, the tunnel may need to be closed whilst building work goes on. After that it's plain sailing, there are five nearby railway stations and two bus depots and parking available in the city centre (including Pall Mall which doesn't usually open on weekends).

 

 

you say you only hear what these groups want you to hear, well you also only hear what the people at everton want you to hear. have they gone public about any of the transport issues? no. did they tell everyone the club will get the stadium for almost nothing? yes. did they eventually say it will cost £78m? yes.

its the same on both sides mate, dont think its just KEIOC spinning what they want people to hear, tesco kbc and everton have all been spinning this since day one. only it seems you believe thse people because they sit in ivory towers rather than the lads who sit with the rest of us but spend their time fighting for the truth.

 

The club have never admitted it, it's just in the planning documents.

[StevO]

Louis - i didnt mean the loop will be on par with the kings dock, i meant it would have the same constraints as kirkby with regards to congestion, only i think i said that there is more scope for expansion with the loop due to there being plenty more space to increase the roads capacity.

 

i still think the train stations will be packed, but again, not as much as kirkby as there are numerous station in the town centre and close by.

 

i cant see anything but congestion problems with the tunnel on a match day, but thats the only one i think cant be sorted easily enough.

 

to summarise, i do think there would be numerous congestion problems with the loop, but i think more options to recify them and more directions and forms of transport than in kirkby.

 

EDIT:

noticed you mentioned Joe Anderson there Louis, heard anything regarding plans for when, i mean if he is elected?

Edited July 9, 2008 by StevO

[Romey 1878]

The dreaded "like a new player" has appeared from Phil Neville today

[MikeO]

The dreaded "like a new player" has appeared from Phil Neville today

 

 

"I don't think Everton fans should worry too much about us signing too many players because of the quality in the squad.

 

"I'm sure the manager will strengthen the squad but I'm more looking forward to getting Tim Cahill back because we missed him for four or five months of the season.

 

"(Leighton) Baines missed part of it and we probably didn't see enough of Mikel Arteta after Christmas because of his injury.

 

"These types of players are going to be like new players for us next season."

 

Well that's alright then.....stop panicking everyone .

[Romey 1878]

We don't have a quality squad Phil, we have a quality first 11 (although, it's more like a first 9 atm ) with nothing behind it.

[Louis]

noticed you mentioned Joe Anderson there Louis, heard anything regarding plans for when, i mean if he is elected?

 

I don't know much about him but he favours of the KEIOC campaign so I imagine the loop and Goodison developments. LCC have told Everton they can have land around Goodison Park to expand and have said the loop that should be an option. Bill Kenwright has confirmed that an ESCLA meeting last week.

[DangerMouse]

LCC have told Everton they can have land around Goodison Park to expand and have said the loop that should be an option.

 

what land exactly is there around GP for LCC to give us......

[StevO]

I don't know much about him but he favours of the KEIOC campaign so I imagine the loop and Goodison developments. LCC have told Everton they can have land around Goodison Park to expand and have said the loop that should be an option. Bill Kenwright has confirmed that an ESCLA meeting last week.

 

i've heard a few things, people backing Anderson and a few of his plans for the city and efc. nothing concrete so not worth mentioning or i'll go down like a lead balloon again.

 

what land exactly is there around GP for LCC to give us......

 

expand into gwladys street

gwladys street school

bullens road

walton motors

muriel street

diana street

 

everton own quite a few houses in these streets and the school i think too.

Edited July 10, 2008 by StevO

[Everton_Worshiper]

So if we get more of the houses, presumably people would be rehoused and then houses knocked down?

I thought there was an issue with the school being knocked down?

 

Can imagine logistics on this would be a nightmare, as would gate receipts but would get my vote if viable. I just can't see it at the moment though...

[Louis]

In simple terms.....

 

A school in Walton will be closing down within 3 years and is being merged with another. Warren Bradley said if Everton commit to a redeveloped Goodison then it will be Gwladys Street primary school that goes.

 

A lot of houses are owned privately and some are owned by a housing association, the value of the houses in total comes to around £8million.

 

Scrapyard is apparently owned by the council but is let to the business.

 

The logistics arn't that bad, the biggest problem is finding the residents a new home which would take up to a year.

 

The new bullens road stand could be built where the existing houses are and when it is ready the pitch could be rotated so that it is behind the goal meaning Park End/GwladysStreet could be redeveloped.

[StevO]

as louis said, no logistical problems, Goodison is already set up for 40000 people, plenty of parkng areas already there.

 

peter johnson had an impressive design to rotate the stadium, but he was out before anything could get moving.

[Louis]

Apparently, the parking areas at Goodison Park are actually about to undergo serious change in the next few months - I don't think it will be announced by the club until the season starts (and season tickets have been sold!), another reason they are keeping quiet is they could be expecting LFC to pay for it to be reopened without offering a contribution. The resident parking restrictions will be made bigger to discourage people from driving to the game.

 

There has been talks about opening Pall Mall near Old Hall Street during match timesto be able to cope with demand with a shuttle bus to the game.

 

Personally I'm unaffected by the changes as I only ever travel by train when I do go.

 

Some people are looking at the re-opening of the Bootle line as a way of reducing travel by car. That's the line that the LFC stadium will require if they want to expand Stanley Park stadium.

 

Revised Parking plans - http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-120563.pdf

Old article in Post - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverp...64375-20042039/

 

Having said that, even with the new restrictions in place it will still be better suited than Kirkby

[DangerMouse]

expand into gwladys street

gwladys street school

bullens road

walton motors

muriel street

diana street

 

everton own quite a few houses in these streets and the school i think too.

 

 

as louis said, no logistical problems, Goodison is already set up for 40000 people, plenty of parkng areas already there.

 

Dont people live in all them homes??????

 

GP set up for 40K your kidding right??? where are all those carparking spaces??? if your counting schools and bits of land surely this would also happen in Kirby???

 

People talk about the logistics of a ground move but surely it would be better than what we have at the moment????

 

Dont talk about trains and they only run every 15 mins at kirby and you have to get 2 trains ooooo ive been doing that for nearly 15 years now... there is a southern side of the city you know????

 

free land and car parks would be utilised eveywhere..... just like NOW so ... that means we would have similar to now PLUS large dedicated car park's

 

so kirby or another ground...... people like you will allways complain, find another reason to keep GP next to your local boozer or chippy or newsagent ect ect

Edited July 11, 2008 by DangerMouse

[StevO]

Dont people live in all them homes??????

 

GP set up for 40K your kidding right??? where are all those carparking spaces??? if your counting schools and bits of land surely this would also happen in Kirby???

 

People talk about the logistics of a ground move but surely it would be better than what we have at the moment????

 

Dont talk about trains and they only run every 15 mins at kirby and you have to get 2 trains ooooo ive been doing that for nearly 15 years now... there is a southern side of the city you know????

 

free land and car parks would be utilised eveywhere..... just like NOW so ... that means we would have similar to now PLUS large dedicated car park's

 

so kirby or another ground...... people like you will allways complain, find another reason to keep GP next to your local boozer or chippy or newsagent ect ect

 

yes people live in them homes, some private, some council, some owned by everton. compulary purchase order they call it, they kick you out of your home, normally for a little more than market value.

 

if you dont think thats fair then speak to the residents of kirkby, they dont think its fair either.

 

and Goodison has some of the smallest congestion in the league, especially for a ground of its size. try driving to any of these new grounds with their car parks, then try getting out of them in under tow hours. reebok is a great example, loads of parking, 25000 people cant get out in three hours.

 

youve been getting the train to kirkby for 15 years, nice pleasant journey, stick 50000 people on them trains, you think it can cope? what was the figues, something like 7000 people an hour they can get into kirkby by train.

 

free land and car parks? what free land? they are making kirkby a no parking zone opn match days so you have to use the park and ride systems set up outside the town.

 

yes, ill always complain to keep everton near my local boozer or chippy. i mean after all, i live in st helens now days, it takes me five minutes to get to kirkby, a lot closer than GP. so you can forget thinking im against it because i like my little routine.

 

if you bother to look at the opinions of a lot of evertoninas, it seems the poeple who are happy to believe the hype of the club are al for the move to kirkby. the people who have gone a little deeper and looked at all the aspects of this move are against it.

 

i dont know one person who for the move who is informed of the lack of infastructure, the crazy increase in debt that we will be pushing to the limit (the words of efc not me) the effects of moving a business away from a city centre. kirkby will be suicide.

[jamiemaher85]

"and Goodison has some of the smallest congestion in the league, especially for a ground of its size. try driving to any of these new grounds with their car parks, then try getting out of them in under tow hours. reebok is a great example, loads of parking, 25000 people cant get out in three hours."

 

Thats a good point actually. So many new stadiums are a logistical nightmare for a fan getting in and out. Reebok springs to mind, and Walker Stadium as well.

 

Never had that many problems getting away from Goodison.

[Everton_Worshiper]

youve been getting the train to kirkby for 15 years, nice pleasant journey, stick 50000 people on them trains, you think it can cope? what was the figues, something like 7000 people an hour they can get into kirkby by train.

 

OK, I am trying not to be picky but this is not a good statement.

Capacity is 50000, away travel will have a load travelling by coaches, staff & players will already be there by the time fans need to come. So even if that is reduced to 40000 commuters they are not all coming from the same direction on the same train.

 

That is assuming people who don't want the move still come to watch Everton.

Edited July 11, 2008 by Everton_Worshiper

[StevO]

ok then, lets say only 14000 people come on the train, its going to take two hours to get them into kirkby as the station in kirkby can only handle 7000 people an hour and they have said it will not be expanded.

[carlmc25]

"and Goodison has some of the smallest congestion in the league, especially for a ground of its size. try driving to any of these new grounds with their car parks, then try getting out of them in under tow hours. reebok is a great example, loads of parking, 25000 people cant get out in three hours."

 

Thats a good point actually. So many new stadiums are a logistical nightmare for a fan getting in and out. Reebok springs to mind, and Walker Stadium as well.

 

Never had that many problems getting away from Goodison.

on the other side of the coin though are places like Man City's new stadium, I went there for Bon Jovi's recent concert, there must have been 50000 people at least easy and the roads were cleared in about an hour and at that time of the evening there were no trains so most had to travel by car. It may have been different at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon, but then again the same could be said of Liverpool city centre which would be havoc at 3pm at a weekend especially when Liverpool One is fully operating, especially if there is something on at the arena as well.

[StevO]

in manchester you can park on the roads carl, for a stadium of its size COM is pretty good for congestion due to the whole area being expanded to suit the commonwealth games. they invested heavily for the commonwealth and their concil didnt waste their money like ours have.

[carlmc25]

you're probably right, just passing on my experience! I wish the stadium would just be sorted one way or the other, it's an annoying distraction and I'm looking forward to the day we can all just concentrate on the footie again!

[StevO]

i agree mate, it does need to be sorted out. but the way the clubs finances are i struggle to see how it could be sorted in any way at all.