Jump to content


Photo

David Moyes On Sky Sports News


  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#41 DangerMouse

DangerMouse

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,091 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 15:23

Has DM taken over BK as the EFC punchbag or something???? Whats going on??
Ive read all these posts throughout August saying we shouldnt be linked with X / Y, there shit, they are championship players bla bla bla. Now though, DM is shit for having some balls and ambition.. Hes "daft" for thinking were "a top 4 side"......what do you lot want him to do....

Well...I can imagine the posts if hed come out and said "Im affraid its a struggle for fifth again lads"

Hes slated when we are linked with below average players and now your slating him for going for a "better class of player" again what do you lot want.....

Us the fans have brought this on oursleves......

I was actually sat next to two young lads at West Brom while they chanted "Moyes OUT!" & "Sack the board" ???????????

The propogander is spreading!!!!!!!!!!!!


I believe this situation has to be blamed on both, MASSIVE over expectation and KEIOC...... not for maintaing their campain but for the manor in which it was carried out.....

Whilst carrying out there campain they have sought to smear the club in negativity......

Im sure the ultimate goal is along the lines of "Club looks bad = BK looks bad = BK resigns"

Unfortunately the worry has spilled over and created an unstoppable snowball effect that I can see swallowing our club.....

KEIOC continually refered to transfer money.......however they put it I dont know because they keep changing there story...

No money available because it was / is for the stadium
No money available because it was / is only available if the Move went ahead ie INVESTMANT

Two statements that sound the same but tie in with either outcome

So as you can see either way is BK's fault STADIUM MOVE / NO INVESTMENT


Whatever your feelings if Moyes goes are club will only be WORSE off.... No doubt about it..... Get off his back!!!!

Im affraid its just a case of damage limitation........for now
  • 0

#42 BristolToffee

BristolToffee

    Anders Limpar

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 54 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 17:25

In a period of 5 years Moyes has taken us from battling relegation every year to regular (ish) European football, all with limited funding. He is cautious with his spending as he only has limited funds & so cant afford to blow it on players unproven in the premiership.

I fully support his views of using loans on unproven premiership players (i.e. arteta & peanuts), signing cheap upcoming chapionship players (e.g. Cahill, Lescott & Jagielka) and only spending big on proven premiership players (e.g. Yakubu).

Look at the money Chelsea will lose on SWP & Schevchenko - we cant afford to do that! look at all Rafa's dodgy foreign signings too! Alternatively we could follow Leeds who went along the all or nothing view..........

I honestly cant believe people are knocking Moyes! If he goes chances are someone like Big Sam will replace him & we'll end up where we were 5 years ago.
  • 0

#43 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 17:56

dangermouse - you are so full of shit. how the fuck can you blame keioc? how are they to blame while bk is innocent? i know i shouldnt get personal but you sir are an idiot! your so far up bks arse and think the club do no wrong! for fuck sake, take your blinkers off. if your gunna post shit like that first i hope you have some back up to reply with. any blue with the slightest idea about the problems at this club want bk out. smell the fucking coffee!!!
  • 0

#44 Bill

Bill

    Alex. Top player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,492 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 18:11

ooh err. :o A dispute of opinion to say the least. :)
  • 0

#45 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 20:17

In a period of 5 years Moyes has taken us from battling relegation every year to regular (ish) European football, all with limited funding. He is cautious with his spending as he only has limited funds & so cant afford to blow it on players unproven in the premiership.

I fully support his views of using loans on unproven premiership players (i.e. arteta & peanuts), signing cheap upcoming chapionship players (e.g. Cahill, Lescott & Jagielka) and only spending big on proven premiership players (e.g. Yakubu).

Look at the money Chelsea will lose on SWP & Schevchenko - we cant afford to do that! look at all Rafa's dodgy foreign signings too! Alternatively we could follow Leeds who went along the all or nothing view..........

I honestly cant believe people are knocking Moyes! If he goes chances are someone like Big Sam will replace him & we'll end up where we were 5 years ago.

I am one of Moyes' biggest fans and I agree with everything you said, unfortunately he hasn't done any of what you listed above this close season - that is my problem. Rather than sticking to his tried and trusted methods he seems to be going for big name players who just aren't realistic. We've chased them all Summer only to find ourselves with nothing to show for it. He has time to turn it around, but at the moment questions have to be asked.
  • 0

#46 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 20:48

dangermouse - you are so full of shit. how the fuck can you blame keioc? how are they to blame while bk is innocent? i know i shouldnt get personal but you sir are an idiot! your so far up bks arse and think the club do no wrong! for fuck sake, take your blinkers off. if your gunna post shit like that first i hope you have some back up to reply with. any blue with the slightest idea about the problems at this club want bk out. smell the fucking coffee!!!



Very well said!!!!!!!!!

Wot worries me thou, is all the mates Kenwright has borrowed from simply are not interested in buying some stake in the club, Why? fuck knows.

I do know that Kenwright is seeking further loans as he has said himself (if you believe wot he spouts).

Kenwright should SELL the club NOW, and hope we are lucky enough to get some billionaire, aka Abramovic or the Glaziers.
  • 0

#47 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 20:52

i been telling people for long enough, bk will sell the club to an investor who will let him still be the "face of everton" or chairman as some call it. this man is in serious danger of destroying this great club, hes already got us in a worse financial state than peter johnson ever did. its a slippery slope, and he is at the top giving us a push over the edge.
  • 0

#48 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 20:57

i been telling people for long enough, bk will sell the club to an investor who will let him still be the "face of everton" or chairman as some call it. this man is in serious danger of destroying this great club, hes already got us in a worse financial state than peter johnson ever did. its a slippery slope, and he is at the top giving us a push over the edge.



My point entirely!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We cant keep borrowing Millions,

Kenwright should GO, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 0

#49 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 21:04

im sure his worst nightmare would be a fans revolt and protesting him out of the club, but im sure he isnt a million miles away from that now. i put a lot of the blame at wyness' door, but kenwright hired him. so in my eyes, he takes praise for hiring david moyes, he takes the blame for hiring keith wyness. but im sure he'll say sorry when the debt collectors turn up wanting their millions. administration, that would never happen to us, would it?
  • 0

#50 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 21:29

im sure his worst nightmare would be a fans revolt and protesting him out of the club, but im sure he isnt a million miles away from that now. i put a lot of the blame at wyness' door, but kenwright hired him. so in my eyes, he takes praise for hiring david moyes, he takes the blame for hiring keith wyness. but im sure he'll say sorry when the debt collectors turn up wanting their millions. administration, that would never happen to us, would it?



I dont know why Wyness is getting so much shit to b fair, he was hired chiefly to sort out the new stadium, as far as i know.

That went tits up, hes gone.

Thing is thou, Kenwright borrowed money to take control of efc, so from him taking over, weve been in debt i presume, and i can only imagine we are in big debt now.

What funds has Wyness had to work with, borrowed money i presume, therefore the stadium being called in and the shit hits the fan, as weve got to borrow more money to fund that crap.

Meanwhile, Moyes is trying to strengthen the team based on the money aquired from player sales? Which isnt that vast considering the type he is aiming at.

This is my assumption at the moment, I dont know why Wyness left or was pushed, but ive said from Kenwright taking over, that it aint looking good, and really think Kenwright should go all together and stop fucking borrowing, especially in the current financial climate,
  • 0

#51 wizard_wallace55

wizard_wallace55

    Daniel Amokachi

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 21:37

yeh johnson was rich, but he was a complete and utter wanker...at least BK cares about what happens to everton. he may not be a billionaire, but he has reached out his pocket for yak and johnson, and Moyes has turned us around. I would sy that he has a few too many west end shows on the go at the mo, but i'd rather him than some foreign ex-tyrant just lookin to rake back double his dough
  • 0

#52 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 21:45

yeh johnson was rich, but he was a complete and utter wanker...at least BK cares about what happens to everton. he may not be a billionaire, but he has reached out his pocket for yak and johnson, and Moyes has turned us around. I would sy that he has a few too many west end shows on the go at the mo, but i'd rather him than some foreign ex-tyrant just lookin to rake back double his dough


johnson could afford to pay off any debts he created. bk hasnt got yak and aj out of his own pocket, but he has increased the clubs debt by bringing them in, im not against that completely, but dont for one minute think that came out of his own pocket.

I dont know why Wyness is getting so much shit to b fair, he was hired chiefly to sort out the new stadium, as far as i know.
That went tits up, hes gone.

Thing is thou, Kenwright borrowed money to take control of efc, so from him taking over, weve been in debt i presume, and i can only imagine we are in big debt now.
What funds has Wyness had to work with, borrowed money i presume, therefore the stadium being called in and the shit hits the fan, as weve got to borrow more money to fund that crap.

Meanwhile, Moyes is trying to strengthen the team based on the money aquired from player sales? Which isnt that vast considering the type he is aiming at.

This is my assumption at the moment, I dont know why Wyness left or was pushed, but ive said from Kenwright taking over, that it aint looking good, and really think Kenwright should go all together and stop fucking borrowing, especially in the current financial climate,


the basics around wyness; he was brought in to run the club, not just the stadium, though the stadium was his primary role in the last 18 months. but i'll list a few things from the top of my head.
first up, he increased the debt of the club, which most clubs have done, but at the same time he also sold off most of the clubs assets. he sold finch farm before it was comleted, he sold off the old academy (which was donated to efc by granchester i believe, for the youth teams, so a bit of funny ground on that one) tried to sell of bellefield but hit problems with the planning issues. we can add into this the jjb deal, which on paper we got a lump sum for outsourcing our merchandising, but jjb have worked up a reputation of letting down our customers. they also hold the rights to our kits, so they get the say on the kits supplied to efc. they sold the clubs catering to a company called sudexo; this one is the killer of poor business to me. WE PAY THEM 377,000 per season, to do our catering, we then split the profits with them. so we pay them and deliver 36,000 customers to them, good work mr wyness.

i agree 100% kenwright has to go. he knows hes not a business man, so he cant run a football club, he hired a joke of a businessman to run it for him. the pair of them are two of the most incompetant people ive had the misfortune of meeting, luckily enough a welcoming handshake was as far as it went. busy men.

Edited by StevO, 26 Aug 2008 - 21:56.

  • 0

#53 wizard_wallace55

wizard_wallace55

    Daniel Amokachi

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 21:54

yeh but hes still let go of some money which could have gone to paying off these debts (he said he loves everton and would sell to the right investors so its no tlike he would willingly wouldnt leave us for death by debt)...
im not into how much is in the kitty or has been borrowed for the stadium plans but the one thing that pissed me off was when we couldnt put a 30 mil deposit up for the site at the echo arena. walked past there tother day and thought would have been te best place, coc 08 and all that jazz...
...but now we've 'fucked off to kirkby' for the tesco arena seemingly <_<
  • 0

#54 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 22:01

yeh but hes still let go of some money which could have gone to paying off these debts (he said he loves everton and would sell to the right investors so its no tlike he would willingly wouldnt leave us for death by debt)...
im not into how much is in the kitty or has been borrowed for the stadium plans but the one thing that pissed me off was when we couldnt put a 30 mil deposit up for the site at the echo arena. walked past there tother day and thought would have been te best place, coc 08 and all that jazz...
...but now we've 'fucked off to kirkby' for the tesco arena seemingly <_<


the money couldnt have gone to paying off the debts, as this money would have come from another loan, or overdraft, hence; more debt.

he does love everton, that is not in question. what is his idea of the right investor?
another blue? who has plenty of money available? and others within his group willing to invest? possibly involved in the building industry (help with a stadium)?
his name was david mclean. a millionaire blue, owns mclean the builders, had a group also interested in investing with him. kenwright did not return the numerous calls left with his secretary, this was three years ago now.
  • 0

#55 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 22:28

The simple fact is the premiership is now run by billionaires, and not millionaires. We simply cant compete at present.

Kenwright to GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 0

#56 Jimmy the blue

Jimmy the blue

    Graeme Sharp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,799 posts

Posted 26 Aug 2008 - 23:47

The simple fact is the premiership is now run by billionaires, and not millionaires. We simply cant compete at present.

Kenwright to GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Just hold a minute, each club owned by a so called billionaire will go tits up once they have finished with their play things. We are heading for a world wide recession so I will be glad to see how much more the shite will have to go into debt if interest rates are increased as seems likely stateside, they may have to borrow just to affoed the interest already arising. BK is not an angel but he is a blue, he is british and he has at least got us this far no matter where we hypothise where the money came from. If indeed we have had to repay debts this summer as seems likely it is prudent to do so in times of a recession so even that has a bright side.

It is quite easy to say that Kenwright should go but who will you replace him with, we are not an attractive purchase for anyone despite our history which counts for nothing as far as investmet is concerned as that will be outweighed by bolshi supporters which would make a rich none blue shit himself.

Edited by Jimmy the blue, 26 Aug 2008 - 23:49.

  • 0

#57 Rupert_Fuffeinsmuir III

Rupert_Fuffeinsmuir III

    Dave Watson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 12:02

Just hold a minute, each club owned by a so called billionaire will go tits up once they have finished with their play things. We are heading for a world wide recession so I will be glad to see how much more the shite will have to go into debt if interest rates are increased as seems likely stateside, they may have to borrow just to affoed the interest already arising. BK is not an angel but he is a blue, he is british and he has at least got us this far no matter where we hypothise where the money came from. If indeed we have had to repay debts this summer as seems likely it is prudent to do so in times of a recession so even that has a bright side.

It is quite easy to say that Kenwright should go but who will you replace him with, we are not an attractive purchase for anyone despite our history which counts for nothing as far as investmet is concerned as that will be outweighed by bolshi supporters which would make a rich none blue shit himself.



I have agreed with a lot of what you have said lately Jimmy and agree that we don't necessarily need a billionaire to bring us success. Yes BK is blue and British, but on that basis alone we could have 1000's of potential chairmen. Personally I would settle for a chairman who can identify targets to achieve and stick to those targets, show slow but steady progression year on year (in terms of corporate and business development, not on the playing pitch as that is down to the manager provided he is given the resources), and finally, but perhaps most importantly in our case, a chairman who does not appear on T.V. talking absolute drivel and then goes hiding when it all goes balls up.
  • 0

#58 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 12:31

Just hold a minute, each club owned by a so called billionaire will go tits up once they have finished with their play things. We are heading for a world wide recession so I will be glad to see how much more the shite will have to go into debt if interest rates are increased as seems likely stateside, they may have to borrow just to affoed the interest already arising. BK is not an angel but he is a blue, he is british and he has at least got us this far no matter where we hypothise where the money came from. If indeed we have had to repay debts this summer as seems likely it is prudent to do so in times of a recession so even that has a bright side.

It is quite easy to say that Kenwright should go but who will you replace him with, we are not an attractive purchase for anyone despite our history which counts for nothing as far as investmet is concerned as that will be outweighed by bolshi supporters which would make a rich none blue shit himself.

Well said. I can't believe any Evertonian can just erase their memory and be so short-sighted as to remember the Peter Johnson days through rose tinted glasses, if you think we're a joke now then cast your mind back to Agent Johnson (the guardian of the fans dreams) banners, two seasons scrambling away from relegation, Howard Kendall's (the world class manager) 3rd stint, Vinny Samways, Claus Thomsen etc etc. Peter Johnson never put any of his money into the club, whether he had the funds to cover the debt is immaterial as he was never going to do that anyway. Kenwright took us over to save us from the catastrophe that was Peter Johnson. We had an abysmal team, an abysmal manager, debts and a rapidly degenerating stadium and were officially the biggest laughing stock in the league. Now we have our best team in years (if we sign a DM!) and an excellent manager and we have been improving on the pitch year on year. I'm not saying he's Roman Abramovic, but he's not as bad as some like to make out. We're having a bad pre-season and some people are just using it as an excuse to have some cheap pot shots, kick BK when he's down. As Jimmy said above, with some of the fans we have who moan constantly about everything, can you blame foreign investors from steering well clear?

At the end of the day he's doing the best he can with his somewhat limited funds, the bottom line is - like you and me he's an Everton fan, the difference is he actually made millions and decided to try and save his boyhood club and try and make us a viable business proposition for an investor - BUT he doesn't have the outright cash needed to turn us around on his own. Whereas the rest of us, who are nowhere near as successful businessmen as Kenwright (despite the fact some would have you believe he is a total buffoon), can only moan about him from the shadows.
  • 0

#59 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 17:40

i'll happily remind anybody of the state we were in with johnson, as right now we are in a worse position than he left us in. read the info published by the club year on year since he left, as we have got deeper and deeper each year gone by.

and were not just having a bad preseason, bk has run his course. he is at the limit if his borrowing capability, after selling everything we can. he has hit his limit. the only things left to sell are the players and Goodison park.

and for the record, saying johnson didnt put a penny in, neither has bk.

Edited by StevO, 27 Aug 2008 - 17:44.

  • 0

#60 Chris the Blue

Chris the Blue

    Duncan McKenzie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 414 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 17:50

i'll happily remind anybody of the state we were in with johnson, as right now we are in a worse position than he left us in. read the info published by the club year on year since he left, as we have got deeper and deeper each year gone by.

and were not just having a bad preseason, bk has run his course. he is at the limit if his borrowing capability, after selling everything we can. he has hit his limit. the only things left to sell are the players and Goodison park.

and for the record, saying johnson didnt put a penny in, neither has bk.


Then we need someone who can and will and bloody fast
  • 0

#61 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 17:58

if bk went public that the club was up for sale then im pretty sure someone will come forward.
none of this i'll sell if the right investor comes along, buyers dont want to invest, they want to own. just like blue bill does
  • 0

#62 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 20:54

if bk went public that the club was up for sale then im pretty sure someone will come forward.
none of this i'll sell if the right investor comes along, buyers dont want to invest, they want to own. just like blue bill does



Like ive said before, there are numours multi millionaires or if not billionaires with money tied to our club through LOANS, each expecting their guaranteed returns and increasing the debt we owe.

I totally agree with this post, if Kenwright publicly declared his wish to sell, i would strongly fancy our chances of being snapped up.

Kenwright is a true blue (apparently), but premiership football is very quickly becoming as high money earning globaly, although still nowhere near as basketball and baseball are in the US which is why so many american tycoons are looking to th premiership. EFC even thou very high in debt seeminly, would surely be a great assett to any tycoon, with their global fan count.

Surely we would be better off without Kenwrights on going loan hunting, debt building plans, hoping the new stadium will attract more investors (or shall i say more multi millionaire loan lenders).

As posted previously, Kenwright wants to be seen as the face of EFC, but at what price for the club.

Barry Hearn has publically said that he is more than happy to plod along at Leyton Orient cos he loves his club, Kenwright may well be taking us to play them the way things are going.

I personally hope we can compete at the highest level, and the only way that seems possible is with new owners.
  • 0

#63 Randomness

Randomness

    My Last Avatar Was Cursed

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 21:03

Question: Why does it Matter That BK is an Evertonian? I mean no-one would have a go at the Panasonic boss if he owned a Sony TV?

It Doesnt Matter if he is blue he Can't Take us Forward any More.
  • 0

#64 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 21:19

I would love to see what Moyes could actually do with us if he was given a decent backing, sadly we may well be watching how well he is doing at Man U in a couple of years time.

I have to say, even all the shit they took when they bought Man U, The Glaziers are doing a fantastic job there,
  • 0

#65 Jimmy the blue

Jimmy the blue

    Graeme Sharp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,799 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 21:33

I would love to see what Moyes could actually do with us if he was given a decent backing, sadly we may well be watching how well he is doing at Man U in a couple of years time.

I have to say, even all the shit they took when they bought Man U, The Glaziers are doing a fantastic job there,



It certainly helps to have a supporter in charge as they feel the same passion as you and I, a money man never could.

BK is by no means perfect, no one in their right mind would say he was but until this mystery buyer is named I'll stick with him. Steve, how do you know that BK has never put any money into the club, lets see your evidence as the club accounts suggest he has, if he has told a porkie on that one then he would be in trouble. I know that Johnson, like Moore's and all the other super rich only underwrote loans and when he sold he made a gain on the sale. Johnson actually epitomized a none supporting owner, ask Nigel Martin when Joe Royle tried to sign him and Johnson wouldn't sign the cheque

Edited by Jimmy the blue, 27 Aug 2008 - 21:34.

  • 0

#66 nited24

nited24

    Tim Howard

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 119 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 21:39

It certainly helps to have a supporter in charge as they feel the same passion as you and I, a money man never could.

BK is by no means perfect, no one in their right mind would say he was but until this mystery buyer is named I'll stick with him. Steve, how do you know that BK has never put any money into the club, lets see your evidence as the club accounts suggest he has, if he has told a porkie on that one then he would be in trouble. I know that Johnson, like Moore's and all the other super rich only underwrote loans and when he sold he made a gain on the sale. Johnson actually epitomized a none supporting owner, ask Nigel Martin when Joe Royle tried to sign him and Johnson wouldn't sign the cheque



The premiership is 100% about money now, and we aint got none.................
  • 0

#67 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 22:48

i'll happily remind anybody of the state we were in with johnson, as right now we are in a worse position than he left us in. read the info published by the club year on year since he left, as we have got deeper and deeper each year gone by.

and were not just having a bad preseason, bk has run his course. he is at the limit if his borrowing capability, after selling everything we can. he has hit his limit. the only things left to sell are the players and Goodison park.

and for the record, saying johnson didnt put a penny in, neither has bk.

So how much deeper are we supposedly in debt since BK took over? off the pitch is it about 15m or something? We may have sold off the training ground (virtually worthless) and have slightly more debt, but all our assets are now in the most important place - on the pitch.

Here is our embarrassing squad from 1999

http://www.toffeeweb...99-00/squad.asp

and we all know what our current squad is.

I would say our old squad was worth about 54m and that's being generous and I'd say our current squad is worth:

Howard 6m
Baines 5m
Jags 6m
Lescott 12m
Yobo 7m
Neville 3m
Hibbert 2.5m
Valente 500k
Arteta 12m
Cahill 12m
Pienaar 4m
Osman 5m
Yakubu 14m
Anichebe 3m
Vaughan 3.5m

Total 95.5m

based on that our current squad is worth 40m more and that's without any further signings, without including Rodwell, Gosling, Turner etc and bearing in mind we've just raked 15m in for AJ/McFadden.

I don't think I've been overly generous with those valuations either. So if you're saying we're more than 40m in debt off the pitch (bearing in mind we've raked in 15m as I just said) than before, then I'd be surprised.
  • 0

#68 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 27 Aug 2008 - 22:52

It certainly helps to have a supporter in charge as they feel the same passion as you and I, a money man never could.

BK is by no means perfect, no one in their right mind would say he was but until this mystery buyer is named I'll stick with him. Steve, how do you know that BK has never put any money into the club, lets see your evidence as the club accounts suggest he has, if he has told a porkie on that one then he would be in trouble. I know that Johnson, like Moore's and all the other super rich only underwrote loans and when he sold he made a gain on the sale. Johnson actually epitomized a none supporting owner, ask Nigel Martin when Joe Royle tried to sign him and Johnson wouldn't sign the cheque


jim - kenwright has always been honest about this, he has always said he doesnt have the money to invest. he said from the off he doesnt have money to put into the club. the club accounts have never suggested kenwright has put any of his own money in. im not having a go at him for this, as he has no lied about this at all. but people assume he has used his own cash for things, he hasnt, and he has been honest about this since day one. he had underwritten loans against season ticket sales and club assets, again, he has been open and honest about this. once again, not having a go at him for this. i wont get on bks back for anything he has been honest about. only the like of fortress sports fund, the lies about the kirkby deal, i'll jump on his back for any of the lies he has told, and i often do, which im not alone on my thoughts on bk.

just to reitterate, the clubs accounts do not suggest he has put his own money in, neither has his mouth.

So how much deeper are we supposedly in debt since BK took over? off the pitch is it about 15m or something? We may have sold off the training ground (virtually worthless) and have slightly more debt, but all our assets are now in the most important place - on the pitch.
So if you're saying we're more than 40m in debt off the pitch (bearing in mind we've raked in 15m as I just said) than before, then I'd be surprised.


erm, 15m??? and the rest!!! the club has lost money year on year, and then borrowed to balance the books.
if the training ground is worthless then why did we sell it? we have the option to buy it back, Louis knows the figure, im not sure so i wont quote. but finch farm is worth more than Goodison park. and the idea of our biggest assets being on the pitch is worrying to me, as they are the only assets left to sell.

i'm wasting my breath as some people seem to have blue tinted glasses on, are happy to accept the lies of the board on the grounds that bk is blue or has made more profit in his life than any of us so he must know what hes doing.

the lies are out on the table, the fortress sports fund never existed, why do we accept that lie and move on? there were numerous lies before the vote for kirkby, they were all put out in the open when the planning application was put it, are people not bothered about this?

i'll finish on this question, and id really like a bk supporter to answer this, and honestly. are you not mad about the lies that were told to the fans regarding the kirkby move? (thats if any of the bk supporters are actually aware of these lies)

Edited by StevO, 27 Aug 2008 - 23:03.

  • 0

#69 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 07:17

jim - kenwright has always been honest about this, he has always said he doesnt have the money to invest. he said from the off he doesnt have money to put into the club. the club accounts have never suggested kenwright has put any of his own money in. im not having a go at him for this, as he has no lied about this at all. but people assume he has used his own cash for things, he hasnt, and he has been honest about this since day one. he had underwritten loans against season ticket sales and club assets, again, he has been open and honest about this. once again, not having a go at him for this. i wont get on bks back for anything he has been honest about. only the like of fortress sports fund, the lies about the kirkby deal, i'll jump on his back for any of the lies he has told, and i often do, which im not alone on my thoughts on bk.

just to reitterate, the clubs accounts do not suggest he has put his own money in, neither has his mouth.



erm, 15m??? and the rest!!! the club has lost money year on year, and then borrowed to balance the books.
if the training ground is worthless then why did we sell it? we have the option to buy it back, Louis knows the figure, im not sure so i wont quote. but finch farm is worth more than Goodison park. and the idea of our biggest assets being on the pitch is worrying to me, as they are the only assets left to sell.

i'm wasting my breath as some people seem to have blue tinted glasses on, are happy to accept the lies of the board on the grounds that bk is blue or has made more profit in his life than any of us so he must know what hes doing.

the lies are out on the table, the fortress sports fund never existed, why do we accept that lie and move on? there were numerous lies before the vote for kirkby, they were all put out in the open when the planning application was put it, are people not bothered about this?

i'll finish on this question, and id really like a bk supporter to answer this, and honestly. are you not mad about the lies that were told to the fans regarding the kirkby move? (thats if any of the bk supporters are actually aware of these lies)

When I said 15m in debt, I meant 15m MORE in debt than when BK took over? If so, then we have 40m (probably more like 50m) more of assets, at least, on the pitch so in reality that would mean we are actually at least 25m better off under BK. That was my point. Your whole argument about BK seems to centre around how we're in more debt, I'm asking the question - are we really or are you just basing this on cold hard cash rather than assets on the pitch as well?

edit: I've just looked at the accounts for 2007 and unless I misunderstand what I'm reading our net debt is approx 26.4m, which means that as we were already in debt when BK took us over and we now have a MASSIVELY superior squad to when he took over, worth at least 40-50m more, in real terms we are far better off financially than when Johnson was in charge. Our assets are on the pitch and that's how I like it. By the way, did we even own Finch Farm when BK took over? I suspect not, which means it's irrelevant whether that has been sold off as we only bought it under BK in the first place. We did have Bellefield but how much did that sell for? 2m or something (total guess alert) which is less than the value of Tony Hibbert.

Edited by carlmc25, 28 Aug 2008 - 11:40.

  • 0

#70 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 17:31

carl, the problem is that our only assets are on the field. so when people start wanting money back, the only way to get that back wil then be to sell the4 players. with the massive boost to premiership money why have we had to go down the route of increasing debt and selling assets at the same time?

and i see you didnt answer the question regarding the kirkby lies??? most of bk's fans dont tend to talk about that apart from slagging keioc. but im genuinely interested in peoples opinions of saviour bill after this sambles
  • 0

#71 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 18:19

carl, the problem is that our only assets are on the field. so when people start wanting money back, the only way to get that back wil then be to sell the4 players. with the massive boost to premiership money why have we had to go down the route of increasing debt and selling assets at the same time?

and i see you didnt answer the question regarding the kirkby lies??? most of bk's fans dont tend to talk about that apart from slagging keioc. but im genuinely interested in peoples opinions of saviour bill after this sambles

I don't know enough about Kirkby to comment, it's all rumours and innuendo at this point as far as I can see so I'm reserving judgement until the enquiry. All I'm saying is that you have constantly belittled Kenwright, beating him with the 'We're more in debt stick' yet in reality, we're far better off and most importantly our assets are on the pitch, plus we have a state of the art training facility and a brilliant manager. Just look at the team we had in 1999, it was an absolute joke and nearly all the (few) decent players were home grown or just about to retire/worthless. At the end of the day, if we are indeed 26m in debt (bearing in mind this may not be accurate as we've just recouped 15m) we could easily wipe this out by selling Lescott and Arteta and still have a better team than we had in 1999. Investing in training grounds, off field products is not going to help us get into Europe/Champions League, success on the pitch will bring the biggest income. Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I agree with a lot of what you say in most topics, but can't help feel that you've lost the plot a bit with Kenwright, he's not perfect but I can't believe any Everton fan could try and claim he's worse than Peter Johnson. :)
  • 0

#72 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 18:26

its not rumour that the price of the stadium increased by 78m , and its not rumours that kirkby will be a no park zone, its not rumour that the train station cant handle the extra traffic. but you seem not to believe it unless its on the OS. accept it, we were lied to.

finch farm was worthless - now state of the art.
assets on the pitch and none off the pitch is dangerous for a business, do you not see that the only assets left to sell are Goodison park and the players? and you dont see this as an issue.

i know we have a very good manager, i know we have very good players, but football in this day and age isnt just played on the pitch. of the field we are losing the game, badly.

your saying that 26m debt isnt bad, because we just got in 15m, and we can wipe this out by selling arteta and lescott, how is this even remotely acceptable.

if ive lost the plot with kenwright then im in a group of many. it seems to me the people who admit to not knowing the ins and outs of his failings are the ones who support him. but believe me, the majority of blues have already had enough of it.
  • 0

#73 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 18:40

its not rumour that the price of the stadium increased by 78m , and its not rumours that kirkby will be a no park zone, its not rumour that the train station cant handle the extra traffic. but you seem not to believe it unless its on the OS. accept it, we were lied to.

finch farm was worthless - now state of the art.
assets on the pitch and none off the pitch is dangerous for a business, do you not see that the only assets left to sell are Goodison park and the players? and you dont see this as an issue.

i know we have a very good manager, i know we have very good players, but football in this day and age isnt just played on the pitch. of the field we are losing the game, badly.

your saying that 26m debt isnt bad, because we just got in 15m, and we can wipe this out by selling arteta and lescott, how is this even remotely acceptable.

if ive lost the plot with kenwright then im in a group of many. it seems to me the people who admit to not knowing the ins and outs of his failings are the ones who support him. but believe me, the majority of blues have already had enough of it.

I never meant Finch Farm was worthless, I meant Bellefield which is what we owned under Johnson. I know a lot of Everton fans are cheesed with Kenwright - mainly because of all the sinister conspiracy theories people put round to get people on board with their ideas and because we've had a poor pre-season signing players. If we went out and signed Moutinho tomorrow then most Everton fans would no doubt be kissing Moyes and Kenwright's ass again. The truth is most fans are fickle, they change their mind like the weather - but apart from you, I can't remember the last time I heard an Everton fan who had a single good word to say about Johnson, that's where I think you've lost the plot.

Lots of teams have better stadiums than us, lots of teams have more assets off the pitch, the bottom line is only 4 teams finished above us last year. Which club would you rather support? I'd pick the one that puts it's money into players, especially when players values only seem to increase in general year on year and each place in the league is worth about half a million or more and success on the pitch will lead to greater exposure, greater sponsorship revenue and tv revenue. Look at Leeds, look at Nottingham forest (and nearly us under Johnson), if you don't have good players you're screwed, which is why Everton under Kenwright made the decision to invest in the players ahead of anything else. I bet if Kenwright had've paid off all our debts and left us with a shambles of a team you would have moaned at him as well. He can't win.
  • 0

#74 StevO

StevO

    Blagging on the basis of knowledge

  • Cyber Steward
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,020 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 19:05

i have many reasons and problems with kenwights running of the club, most of them a put down to wyness but kenwright has to fall on his own sword for wyness problems the same as he has been praised for bringing in moyes. i have my views on johnson, some will agree and most will disgree, but if anyone looks at the problems johnson was hounded out for, we have them same problems now, only we have better players and we are doing better, im very happy about the success on the pitch, but as ive said, football is more than just on the pitch nowdays. i can only hope im not put down as fickle for not being a fan of bk as i have been against the man for as long as i can remember (i was probably too young to care about the business when he took over) i refuse to praise bk for the work moyes has done at the club becasue david himself deserves all of that. as ive said i dont know how many times, its the lies that have done it for me. and we've had pretty much one major lie a year in the last few, from the kirkby being free lies, to the fsf money ready to go into the bank, to we wont sell rooney for 50m. if the guy would just stay away from the cameras im sure he'd get less stick, or if he has to get infront of them, just tell us the story about dave hickson, i like that one, because its the only one i believe from him anymore.

as you said earlier carl, agree to disagree. its the toffeetalk way.
  • 0

#75 Jimmy the blue

Jimmy the blue

    Graeme Sharp

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,799 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 20:38

i have many reasons and problems with kenwights running of the club, most of them a put down to wyness but kenwright has to fall on his own sword for wyness problems the same as he has been praised for bringing in moyes. i have my views on johnson, some will agree and most will disgree, but if anyone looks at the problems johnson was hounded out for, we have them same problems now, only we have better players and we are doing better, im very happy about the success on the pitch, but as ive said, football is more than just on the pitch nowdays. i can only hope im not put down as fickle for not being a fan of bk as i have been against the man for as long as i can remember (i was probably too young to care about the business when he took over) i refuse to praise bk for the work moyes has done at the club becasue david himself deserves all of that. as ive said i dont know how many times, its the lies that have done it for me. and we've had pretty much one major lie a year in the last few, from the kirkby being free lies, to the fsf money ready to go into the bank, to we wont sell rooney for 50m. if the guy would just stay away from the cameras im sure he'd get less stick, or if he has to get infront of them, just tell us the story about dave hickson, i like that one, because its the only one i believe from him anymore.

as you said earlier carl, agree to disagree. its the toffeetalk way.


I'll go with the agree to disagree as we are blues and have enough enemies as it is mate :D .

Anecdotally some years ago I was fundraiser for the captains charity at my golf club, the charity was Zoe's Place the baby hospice. I had organised a raffle prize of a weekend away in London for two, tickets printed prizes arranged when one sponsor when belly up and we had lost the accommodation in London. I had the idea of writing to Bill to see if he could let us have tickets for one of his London productions, I fully explained the circumstances to him, he not only gave us show tickets but also stood the cost of accommodation as well without being asked, to me that says the measure of the man. Incidentally the main idea behind that charity effort was 'lend us a hand' when many famous golfers, boxers, cricketers, keepers gave us signed gloves for auction, Arnold Palmer, Jack Niclaus, Muhamed Ali and many many others helped out. EFC, ManU, Citeh and Blackburn all gave, Liverpool didn't even have the manners to reply hence living down to their vermin reputation, they didn't even respond to their own supporters much to their embarrassment.
  • 0

#76 carlmc25

carlmc25

    Trevor Steven

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts

Posted 28 Aug 2008 - 21:44

i have many reasons and problems with kenwights running of the club, most of them a put down to wyness but kenwright has to fall on his own sword for wyness problems the same as he has been praised for bringing in moyes. i have my views on johnson, some will agree and most will disgree, but if anyone looks at the problems johnson was hounded out for, we have them same problems now, only we have better players and we are doing better, im very happy about the success on the pitch, but as ive said, football is more than just on the pitch nowdays. i can only hope im not put down as fickle for not being a fan of bk as i have been against the man for as long as i can remember (i was probably too young to care about the business when he took over) i refuse to praise bk for the work moyes has done at the club becasue david himself deserves all of that. as ive said i dont know how many times, its the lies that have done it for me. and we've had pretty much one major lie a year in the last few, from the kirkby being free lies, to the fsf money ready to go into the bank, to we wont sell rooney for 50m. if the guy would just stay away from the cameras im sure he'd get less stick, or if he has to get infront of them, just tell us the story about dave hickson, i like that one, because its the only one i believe from him anymore.

as you said earlier carl, agree to disagree. its the toffeetalk way.

fair enough :)
  • 0

#77 linglong

linglong

    Anders Limpar

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 59 posts

Posted 29 Aug 2008 - 11:18

if bk went public that the club was up for sale then im pretty sure someone will come forward.
none of this i'll sell if the right investor comes along, buyers dont want to invest, they want to own. just like blue bill does

Couldnt agree more BK doesnt want to sell,but the ham actor in him just cant stand to be hated so he spins out the line of he'll sell when the right investor comes along..yeah right

i have many reasons and problems with kenwights running of the club, most of them a put down to wyness but kenwright has to fall on his own sword for wyness problems the same as he has been praised for bringing in moyes. i have my views on johnson, some will agree and most will disgree, but if anyone looks at the problems johnson was hounded out for, we have them same problems now, only we have better players and we are doing better, im very happy about the success on the pitch, but as ive said, football is more than just on the pitch nowdays. i can only hope im not put down as fickle for not being a fan of bk as i have been against the man for as long as i can remember (i was probably too young to care about the business when he took over) i refuse to praise bk for the work moyes has done at the club becasue david himself deserves all of that. as ive said i dont know how many times, its the lies that have done it for me. and we've had pretty much one major lie a year in the last few, from the kirkby being free lies, to the fsf money ready to go into the bank, to we wont sell rooney for 50m. if the guy would just stay away from the cameras im sure he'd get less stick, or if he has to get infront of them, just tell us the story about dave hickson, i like that one, because its the only one i believe from him anymore.

as you said earlier carl, agree to disagree. its the toffeetalk way.

We could maybe write a book on the spin of BK..

Maybe titled i wont sell rooney for less than 50 mill while waiting for the FSF money

Catchy title i think

So how much deeper are we supposedly in debt since BK took over? off the pitch is it about 15m or something? We may have sold off the training ground (virtually worthless) and have slightly more debt, but all our assets are now in the most important place - on the pitch.

Here is our embarrassing squad from 1999

http://www.toffeeweb...99-00/squad.asp

and we all know what our current squad is.

I would say our old squad was worth about 54m and that's being generous and I'd say our current squad is worth:

Howard 6m
Baines 5m
Jags 6m
Lescott 12m
Yobo 7m
Neville 3m
Hibbert 2.5m
Valente 500k
Arteta 12m
Cahill 12m
Pienaar 4m
Osman 5m
Yakubu 14m
Anichebe 3m
Vaughan 3.5m

Total 95.5m

based on that our current squad is worth 40m more and that's without any further signings, without including Rodwell, Gosling, Turner etc and bearing in mind we've just raked 15m in for AJ/McFadden.

I don't think I've been overly generous with those valuations either. So if you're saying we're more than 40m in debt off the pitch (bearing in mind we've raked in 15m as I just said) than before, then I'd be surprised.



Sorry for the third straight post..but..

According to Mihir Bose from the BBC we're in about 66 million pounds worth of debt..for a club our size (medium lets be honest here) thats a hell of a lot of debt to be carring around in the start of a recession (sp?)

For me it explains why we've not spent that much this summer..we just havent got it to spend

Edited by StevO, 29 Aug 2008 - 18:32.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users