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Moyes - Reading Between The Lines


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#1 Forever ton

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Posted 02 Oct 2008 - 20:41

I watched the aftermatch interview on CH5 and, reading between the lines, I got the impression that all is not well in the Everton household. Now, I know his team had just been knocked out of the cup but he was certainly getting a bit tetchy when asked about his contract, saying "yes, something may happen in a given timescale" (or something along those lines.

I'm wondering what the general consensus is regarding DM. Do you want to see him fired for our terrible start, no wins at home, no clean sheets at all and out of two cups by October, yet he's still demanding a lot more money?

If you answer 'Yes', who could you see coming in to replace him and what money would you expect the new gaffer to be demanding for the priviledge?

Me personnaly, I would like to see him stay and sort out the mess he has got us in. I don't think he's become a terrible manager overnight and I just cannot see there being a better option in regards to managers out of work.
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#2 Wall Writer

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Posted 02 Oct 2008 - 21:08

The problem is there aren't many managers, if any, out there, who would I could see as a step forward or equal. Moyes was a find. People like Big Sam, are no better manager than Moyes, that's what makes me so hesitant to say he should leave, whoever comes in is going to have the same resources Moyes has got now. And, on top of that, as they've got wind that we are/were willing to splash out 3.4mil for Moyes signature, we for sure wouldn't be getting a bargain replacement.
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#3 EFC-Paul

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Posted 02 Oct 2008 - 22:37

I dont think there are any British managers available tbh that would do much if any better then Moyes, Although there will be foreign managers who may be able to do more tactically. I dont think the club can or will move forward untill we gain serious investment and spend as the squad we currently posses has a massive lack of technical ability pace and awareness, so untill a decent amount of money is spent i dont think imo this season will ever be kick started.
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#4 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 02 Oct 2008 - 23:27

Moyes has not become a terrible manager overnight but he has always had his limitations. Consider his derby record to that of Joe Royle, Kendall or the Cat, its appalling. His record against the so called big four is ebven worse. Bill Kenwright will not sack him, he is too faithful to his managers to do that but I do expect to see Moyes walk. He will walk becuase these results are damaging his supposed reputation, he will be blame lack of finance and poor reward for his endeavours, but I certain he will go, and possibly its not a bad move for all parties as he has taken us as far as he can.

Replacements, Boloni is doing a great job at Liege, look how they organise players, have a coveyor belt producing quality players all the time. Alan Irvine would jump at the chance to mamnage us, our standard of football began falling away when he left for Preston. Do not think for one moment that Moyes is not replaceable because he is, look at the jobs being done by Phil Brown and Steve Bruce, both on budgets far less than ours but they have found players on the cheap.

I think the world of Moyes but it comes a time when the old dog has to be taken into the yard.................in his case he should leave home.
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#5 Maghull70

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 02:37

I think its time for a new manager but the problem is there arent many in the running to take over (and half of those would probably turn down the job anyway).

Perhaps if Moyes wants to save face he could get rid of Steve Round and start afresh with a new number 2 (ie. effectively blaming Steve Round for the bad form) which I dont think is far from the truth.

What has Steve Round done since he's been here apart from bring Newcastles form??.
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#6 TC.

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 02:47

I think its time for a new manager but the problem is there arent many in the running to take over (and half of those would probably turn down the job anyway).

Perhaps if Moyes wants to save face he could get rid of Steve Round and start afresh with a new number 2 (ie. effectively blaming Steve Round for the bad form) which I dont think is far from the truth.

What has Steve Round done since he's been here apart from bring Newcastles form??.


quite honestly though, how do you expect an assistant manager to have a massive impact on a side?
atm the only other manager i would think could help everton a lot would be phil brown, shown a hell of a lot of class to take hull to where they are. but with saying that good luck trying to get him to leave hull..... in all honesty i want moyes to stay though, we need to start winning a few games for him to stay though.
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#7 Maghull70

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 02:57

quite honestly though, how do you expect an assistant manager to have a massive impact on a side?
atm the only other manager i would think could help everton a lot would be phil brown, shown a hell of a lot of class to take hull to where they are. but with saying that good luck trying to get him to leave hull..... in all honesty i want moyes to stay though, we need to start winning a few games for him to stay though.



I think Steve Round is a YES man and partly the reason Moyes brought him here. Moyes needs to hear a few home truths.

I like Hulls manager but I doubt whether he'd be a popular choice with most Evertonians.

I have heard mention of Glen Hoddle, while I'm not convinced he's the answer I'm sure he'd do a better job than Moyes plus attract better players.

Maybe things will turn around for us and we'll be singing Moyes' paises again soon but if we lose to Newcastle and other results go against us we could be 2nd bottom by Sunday, then we'll wait for the boards vote of confidence.
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#8 TC.

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 03:16

im not so keen on hoddle, hasnt been in the job for a while now, dunno how he'd go being thrown into the fray with us...
but yeah. i stress this weekend is a must win game, the board will start questioning moyes' position if we dont :(
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#9 Maghull70

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 03:21

im not so keen on hoddle, hasnt been in the job for a while now, dunno how he'd go being thrown into the fray with us...
but yeah. i stress this weekend is a must win game, the board will start questioning moyes' position if we dont :(



And not just the board.
A couple of years back there were some who thought Moyes had taken us as far as he could. I at the time didnt agree with this and supported Moyes but I'm afraid to say I have turned the corner :gay: NO!!! not that one. I have come around to the idea that Moyes has done his job and now we need to take the next step with someone else.
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#10 Bill

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 06:48

Lets gather ourselves together and look at it realisticly, its a glitch no more no less, if we go back two years we went 7 or 8 games on the trot and lost every one, equalled our worst ever run of defeats in over 130 years of top flight football. we pulled it round and i'm sure we will do again.

I think Moyes is going through a bad spell but is he responsible,?? there have been so many negative vibes coming from Goodison this summer that it just had to have an effect on the club. I know Moyes has his limitations and he does some strange things at times but i'm not sure i would like to see him go at the moment, i'm willing to hold back on any decision until January, if we are still in the bottom half of the table by Christmas i think he will make that decision himself.

You only have to look at sundays opponents ( NEWCASTLE) to see how the happenings inside the Club can have a serious effect on the morale of the players on the pitch.
I would ask everybody to be patient and stop acting like a lynch party because we've lost a few games of football.
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#11 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:08

Lets gather ourselves together and look at it realisticly, its a glitch no more no less, if we go back two years we went 7 or 8 games on the trot and lost every one, equalled our worst ever run of defeats in over 130 years of top flight football. we pulled it round and i'm sure we will do again.

I think Moyes is going through a bad spell but is he responsible,?? there have been so many negative vibes coming from Goodison this summer that it just had to have an effect on the club. I know Moyes has his limitations and he does some strange things at times but i'm not sure i would like to see him go at the moment, i'm willing to hold back on any decision until January, if we are still in the bottom half of the table by Christmas i think he will make that decision himself.

You only have to look at sundays opponents ( NEWCASTLE) to see how the happenings inside the Club can have a serious effect on the morale of the players on the pitch.
I would ask everybody to be patient and stop acting like a lynch party because we've lost a few games of football.


Bill, lets get real, if you saw his immediate interview after the game last night he was a broken man. He will not be sacked, Bill Kenwright needs us to be in the bottom three before he'd even consider such a thing, but he can walk, and that is what he should do. Moyes is going through a bad spell, a very bad spell. The players on that park are his, they cost more than most teams to assemble and they are not producing, no matter what tactic he applies. He has been holding out for a vastly improved contract over a five year period, in this economic climate we just cannot afford his demands. Don't mention Bill Kenwright, he has gone on record so many times that he wants to sell and I don't think for one minute he is looking for a huge profit, he just wants to get away from the abuse.

I think we have all been patient long enough, its time to self examine and to come up with answers other wise it is like the skipper of the Titanic saying 'there are no ice bergs round here when we are sinking fast'

Moyes has this morning said that he does want to sign his new contract, if that is the case is he taking whats on the table or still holding out for more. If he signs whats on the table then why be content now we are in shit street having held out to the detriment of his team for an inflated figure. Either way in my book he has now taken us as far as he can and should go, his record in the big games is now ridiculously poor as are is so called cup runs. I will always thank him for what he has done but now I'm certain he's done all he can.
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#12 Sickboy

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:12

IMO we are not far from becoming newcastle, moyes not signing a new contract seems to have sawn the seeds of discontent throughout the squad. The players arnt happy about being told to give their all when moyes wont sign a contract. Either he signs a new contract in the next few weeks or he should go soon. We need to know who is gonna be in charge when the window opens in January. I rate moyes, but if he doesnt want to be here We should get shot of him sooner rather than later.
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#13 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:17

Bill, lets get real, if you saw his immediate interview after the game last night he was a broken man. He will not be sacked, Bill Kenwright needs us to be in the bottom three before he'd even consider such a thing, but he can walk, and that is what he should do. Moyes is going through a bad spell, a very bad spell. The players on that park are his, they cost more than most teams to assemble and they are not producing, no matter what tactic he applies. He has been holding out for a vastly improved contract over a five year period, in this economic climate we just cannot afford his demands. Don't mention Bill Kenwright, he has gone on record so many times that he wants to sell and I don't think for one minute he is looking for a huge profit, he just wants to get away from the abuse.

I think we have all been patient long enough, its time to self examine and to come up with answers other wise it is like the skipper of the Titanic saying 'there are no ice bergs round here when we are sinking fast'

Moyes has this morning said that he does want to sign his new contract, if that is the case is he taking whats on the table or still holding out for more. If he signs whats on the table then why be content now we are in shit street having held out to the detriment of his team for an inflated figure. Either way in my book he has now taken us as far as he can and should go, his record in the big games is now ridiculously poor as are is so called cup runs. I will always thank him for what he has done but now I'm certain he's done all he can.


PS, these comments stand no matter how well be beat the Barcodes, and beat them we will
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#14 Bill

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:32

Morning Jim.

Jimmy ... "He has been holding out for a vastly improved contract over a five year period",

How do you know that, has he told you?? Nobody outside the club knows exactly whats on that contract, it could be anything thats holding it up, like the transfer funds that never came across. Dont forget he sold Mcfadden and Johnson to get the £15 million he spent.

And why shouldnt he expect an improved Contract, he got improved long term contracts for half of his squad last season, he has acheived Top 6 in the premier league 4 times, Champs league once, Eufa Cup 3 times. Have all Evertonians got such short memories to have forgotten when we finished in the bottom six every year before he came.

Its a bit different for you and i jimmy we have seen the great sides and the achievements we have had in the past, but for anybody under the age of 25-30 this is the best period they have ever seen for their club, and the manager deserves a little respect for what he has achieved here, so how anybody can be calling for his head baffles me.
As i have said i think he is an honourable man who will make the decision himself if he does'nt improve it by Christmas.
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#15 Jimmy the blue

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:47

Morning Jim.

Jimmy ... "He has been holding out for a vastly improved contract over a five year period",

How do you know that, has he told you?? Nobody outside the club knows exactly whats on that contract, it could be anything thats holding it up, like the transfer funds that never came across. Dont forget he sold Mcfadden and Johnson to get the £15 million he spent.

And why shouldnt he expect an improved Contract, he got improved long term contracts for half of his squad last season, he has acheived Top 6 in the premier league 4 times, Champs league once, Eufa Cup 3 times. Have all Evertonians got such short memories to have forgotten when we finished in the bottom six every year before he came.

Its a bit different for you and i jimmy we have seen the great sides and the achievements we have had in the past, but for anybody under the age of 25-30 this is the best period they have ever seen for their club, and the manager deserves a little respect for what he has achieved here, so how anybody can be calling for his head baffles me.
As i have said i think he is an honourable man who will make the decision himself if he does'nt improve it by Christmas.



Morning Bill, you well mate?

You are well aware that I don't know the full facts of his contract but if it isn't a vastly improved deal why are both sides holding out, simple fact is it has to be. I would certainly not have begrudged him improved terms, no one would have unless we cannot afford those terms,which is another matter.

Yes Bill this has been the best period and like you I want it to continue, I want us to go forward and I want all these kids to wear their EFC gear with pride, if that happens I, like you, would die happy. We therefore must ask ourselves can Moyes take us to the promised land, like Moses he has pointed us in the right direction but I don't think he is capable of making it there himself. Leaving matters to fester until Christmas is a none starter for me mate as by then many players could be handing in transfer requests wanting to jump ship, you know it happens.

I also think Moyes, like Kenwright, is basically an honourable man, so was the Captain of the Titanic mate.
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#16 Bill

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 07:56

Touche Jimmy, agree to disagree. :)
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#17 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 08:23

At this present time, Moyes' heart does not seem to be in it...just his wallet.
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#18 thescore

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 08:43

this is not all moyes fault i think the board and the share holders must take some responsibilty. if the board and the shareholders weren't fighting about this new ground and calling EGM every week then maybe we might have got all the players we needed and not last minute buys on deadline day as moyes has said it will take 6 to 8 weeks to settle in new players. i dont think a new manager would be a good idea, we have no investment and the board have put all its egg in one basket for this new ground. I say back moyes and the boys this will come good.
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#19 ooberman

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 08:51

that daily post article about moyes and everton is pretty well-judged. One sentence from it struck a chord with me

"it could be argued that itís a sign of the progress during six-and-half years under Moyes that an early UEFA Cup exit has prompted talk of a crisis."

lets give Moyes a chance, a win on Saturday would put us top half again, and if we could pick up something from the next two games, morale might be boosted enough to go on and have a half-decent season....Sunday's game is massive though....
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#20 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 09:11

this is not all moyes fault i think the board and the share holders must take some responsibilty. if the board and the shareholders weren't fighting about this new ground and calling EGM every week then maybe we might have got all the players we needed and not last minute buys on deadline day as moyes has said it will take 6 to 8 weeks to settle in new players. i dont think a new manager would be a good idea, we have no investment and the board have put all its egg in one basket for this new ground. I say back moyes and the boys this will come good.


lets not forget it is not solely the board to blame on the ground move (or lack there of), there have been well publicised pressure groups doing all the "fighting".
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#21 thescore

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 09:27

lets not forget it is not solely the board to blame on the ground move (or lack there of), there have been well publicised pressure groups doing all the "fighting".


i think the ground move and who is to blame is a whole new debate but calling EGM every week in the middle of preseason takes up time especialy when you are looking for new players.
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#22 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 09:30

i think the ground move and who is to blame is a whole new debate but calling EGM every week in the middle of preseason takes up time especialy when you are looking for new players.


Exactly my point, it is not the board who decided "I know let us have an EGM"...it was pressure groups who forced them.
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#23 Romey 1878

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 09:57

Exactly my point, it is not the board who decided "I know let us have an EGM"...it was pressure groups who forced them.



The shareholders forced it because they wanted answers, hardly the crime of the century when the figures had been changing every time someone opened their mouth.
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#24 thescore

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 10:38

The shareholders forced it because they wanted answers, hardly the crime of the century when the figures had been changing every time someone opened their mouth.


There is so many groups involved in the new ground move who all voice there views and all quote different figures which they are all entitled to do so but in fact it is turning into major mess. The fans and the team and the manager are all getting court up in, this is not good for everton football club.

What i am saying calling EGM in the middle of preseason when we should have been looking to bring players in, has added to the mess moyes and the boys are in now.
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#25 Mercedes

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 10:53

i think he needs to let us no. one way or the other. all this is he isn't he is not good for anyone. if he has no promblems about signing.Why does he not do so. this is giving worring signs to the players and the fan. i love everton and think very highly of DM but enough is enough.
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#26 DangerMouse

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 11:59

The shareholders forced it because they wanted answers, hardly the crime of the century when the figures had been changing every time someone opened their mouth.


Shareholders with close links to KEIOC.....
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#27 Romey 1878

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:08

Shareholders with close links to KEIOC.....



Know them all personally do you? I imagine there are a fair few of them.
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#28 DangerMouse

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:15

Well letters issued to shareholders seemed to pop up on websites everywhere.....I would call that a close link wouldnt you......

I can assume from that that they are

either
1. One and the same.....
2. Sharing information

Close Links!!!!!!!!!


Your now going to jump on the fact that its not KEIOC's fault we dint buy players and the like...... well yes your right....... BUT YOU LOT MADE A BIG FUCKING FUSS ABOUT IT....
They created anxiety and piled pressure on the club..... just look what that does to a club like Newcastle....
KEIOC created the pressure pre season.... and where under performing because of that pressure......
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#29 Louis

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:16

I'm shocked at this thread - where did all this anti-Moyes feeling come from?
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#30 Romey 1878

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:16

You lot? I'm not a member of KEIOC, nor will I ever be.
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#31 thescore

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:17

keioc potential alternatives but no business plan quality.
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#32 dark

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:18

You lot? I'm not a member of KEIOC, nor will I ever be.


Nor will 99% of Everton fans. Everyone knows that it will be a right decision to move to a better stadium with or without Merseyside. I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I think KEIOC needs to give the board a break with all the mess that the club is currently in.
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#33 DangerMouse

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:20

There is so many groups involved in the new ground move who all voice there views and all quote different figures which they are all entitled to do so but in fact it is turning into major mess. The fans and the team and the manager are all getting court up in, this is not good for everton football club.

What i am saying calling EGM in the middle of preseason when we should have been looking to bring players in, has added to the mess moyes and the boys are in now.



You lot? I'm not a member of KEIOC, nor will I ever be.


I wasnt really referring to you Romey........ but Ill be jumped on again for even suggesting it... I guess it just touches a sore nerve
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#34 Louis

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:28

Dangermouse/The Score,

A few things need clarifying regarding the EGM.. you are correct in assuming that the shareholders who lobbied for the EGM are not entirely supportive of Everton's proposed ground move i.e. they have doubts over its viability. The EGM was called for in the summer before the season began, the board chose the date of when it should take place.

There is an unsubstantiated rumour that there was going to be a EGM called every week. This is not and never has been the case. The same thing has appeared on bluekipper too.

The original EGM was called regarding the stadium issues as a number of shareholders have concerns. Regardless of your opinion on the ground move, please bare in mind that the separate shareholders associations all agreed to support the EGM - they have never to my knowledge supported an EGM together before - attempts have been made in the past to gather their support and failed. It was clearly something shareholders wanted information about.

There were plans for a second EGM that were for non-stadium issues but it was never expected to be a weekly event and it's a rumour that has been peddled by the likes of yourselves. I posted the the details of the second EGM in another post, feel free to look at it.

On the Moyes contract front, there was something in the papers the other day that the new contract does not include travel expenses and that is a reason why it's still not been finalised.
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#35 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:39

Dangermouse/The Score,

A few things need clarifying regarding the EGM.. you are correct in assuming that the shareholders who lobbied for the EGM are not entirely supportive of Everton's proposed ground move. The EGM was called for in the summer before the season began, the board chose the date of when it should take place.

There is an unsubstantiated rumour that there was going to be a EGM called every week. This is not and never has been the case. The same thing has appeared on bluekipper too.

The original EGM was called regarding the stadium issues as a number of shareholders have concerns. Regardless of your opinion on the ground move, please bare in mind that the separate shareholders associations all agreed to support the EGM - they have never to my knowledge supported an EGM together before - attempts have been made in the past to gather their support and failed. It was clearly something shareholders wanted information about.

There were plans for a second EGM that were for non-stadium issues but it was never expected to be a weekly event and it's a rumour that has been peddled by the likes of yourselves. I posted the the details of the second EGM in another post, feel free to look at it.


Are you the voice of the shareholders Louis?
Also, I have said on another thread somewhere, there have been numerous unsubstantiated rumours directed against the Bill and the board which have been "peddled" by the pressure groups, oh go on then KEIOC. It is funny how once the finger of blame swings from the board in KEIOC's direction that they start to get defensive over their actions. I can imagine KEIOC are not enjoying the increasing number of negatives being branded in their driection, wonder if that is how the board felt/feel.
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#36 thescore

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:46

There were plans for a second EGM that were for non-stadium issues but it was never expected to be a weekly event and it's a rumour that has been peddled by the likes of yourselves. I posted the the details of the second EGM in another post, feel free to look at it.

rumours peddled by the likes of yourselves
look i only go on this forum because it is a good one and i dont start rumours maybe its you that starts the rumours.
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#37 Bill

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:52

:offtopic: Everybody concerned is argueing over something they know fook all about, Give it a rest or go to the proper topic to discuss it, personally i wont argue about anything if i dont know the full facts, wish our members would get to know something about what they are argueing about first. :(


Back to topic Should moyes go or stay ........................... for me, stay.
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#38 DangerMouse

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:56

Thats right licker you know ALL the facts as usual.................... and everyone else is just daft.....
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#39 carlmc25

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:56

Morning Jim.

Jimmy ... "He has been holding out for a vastly improved contract over a five year period",

How do you know that, has he told you?? Nobody outside the club knows exactly whats on that contract, it could be anything thats holding it up, like the transfer funds that never came across. Dont forget he sold Mcfadden and Johnson to get the £15 million he spent.

And why shouldnt he expect an improved Contract, he got improved long term contracts for half of his squad last season, he has acheived Top 6 in the premier league 4 times, Champs league once, Eufa Cup 3 times. Have all Evertonians got such short memories to have forgotten when we finished in the bottom six every year before he came.

Its a bit different for you and i jimmy we have seen the great sides and the achievements we have had in the past, but for anybody under the age of 25-30 this is the best period they have ever seen for their club, and the manager deserves a little respect for what he has achieved here, so how anybody can be calling for his head baffles me.
As i have said i think he is an honourable man who will make the decision himself if he does'nt improve it by Christmas.

Brilliant post, agree with it 100%. I'm getting a little fed up with Moyes body language and defeatist demanour at the moment, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt and the chance to turn things around. He has made mistakes, every manager does, but how people can say he should be sacked or should walk away after about 6/7 league games is beyond me. It's like, how about we forget his last 5 years with the club and sack him purely based on 9 games this season. How about that for loyalty? yet some of our fans are slagging him off because he won't sign a contract yet which he isn't happy with... the irony.

If at January our season is going nowhere then we can assess things, but calling for Moyes head now is quite frankly obscene. I just hope he can find a new system and fast, on a positive note Pienaar looked good last night!
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#40 Louis

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Posted 03 Oct 2008 - 12:58

E_W, I'm not a shareholder so I'm hardly going to be the voice of the shareholders ;) I'll find your other post and reply in there.

Thescore, It was in response to your post above:

if the board and the shareholders weren't fighting about this new ground and calling EGM every week then maybe we might have got all the players we needed and not last minute buys on deadline day as moyes has said it will take 6 to 8 weeks to settle in new players.


If "every week" was just a phrase then I apologise, the same thing has been said on another forum so it seemed like a rumour doing the rounds. I was attempting to clarify that it was never the case.

EDIT -- I've just seen Licker's post.. If you want to discuss it, then lets all go to to a thread created solely for the purpose.
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