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#1 Blue4Ever

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 11:20

Since its quite obvious we need another midfielder, who would the people on here like to see next to Fellaini? realistic players please.

I was watching a Borussia Dortmund game the other day and I liked the look of Sebastien Kehl, he reminds me a bit of Gerrard, his all round game is very good, the amount of tackles he won against Hamburg even if they did get hammered was fantastic. I think he would be the perfect partner for fellaini and really improve our midfield.
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#2 Jesse11

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 11:22

Lorik Cana
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#3 comeonblueboys

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 11:30

Wouldn't it be better not to have someone with a good all round game? We don't need a box to box player - what we need is someone strong and reliable who will just sit there in front of the defence and be disciplined and play simple balls to other players.
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#4 Jesse11

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 12:05

Wouldn't it be better not to have someone with a good all round game? We don't need a box to box player - what we need is someone strong and reliable who will just sit there in front of the defence and be disciplined and play simple balls to other players.

Moyes could always just tell a player to play that role. It would help if they had other facets to their game aswell.
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#5 The Beard

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 16:27

Bring back Carsley, failing that Fellainin mate at Liehge, Witsel looked a good prospect and only 19 too
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#6 Tricky Trev

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 16:52

I think he will go back for M'bia or i would definately go for Lorik Cana he is a beast!
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#7 jamiemaher85

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 21:43

Its a really tricky situation at the moment, and Moyes will have to make some brave moves, which unfotunately he is not hugely known to make. If we buy a new defensive midfield player then it starts to limit certain choices, but at the same time we are not strong enough to cope without a player who's sole purpose is to support the defence.

If we where to continue with a 4 man midfield, which we have utalised more this season than in previous years, it would mean, most likely, Arteta, Fellaini, New Defensive Mid, Piennar. Now i have been impressed with Fellani but he is not creative enough to sit in that role, and that wouldn't really be a huge issue but Arteta and Pienaar haven't been hugely creative forces either this year. And employing a 5 man mid complecates matters more as it limits the chances of our young strikers to be thrown into the fray

I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but I don't think solely throwing a defensive mid into the fray is the answer. Our 5 man mid wokred last year becasue we where packing out the middle of the park so much and our defense had the confidence to cope with most attacks that did make it though. Personally I think that a creative force in the side would be a better move than a defensive one. We are getting cuaght out so much becasue we don't attack well not just becasue we defend badly. Attack can be a excellent form of defence after all. Look at Aston Villa, no real out-and-out defensive midfielder in the team. Usually Reo-Coker and Barry (good all-rounders) and then the choices of Young, Agbonlahor or Milner on the wings. It seems to be working for them

If we are to continue on the work done to Everton over the last few years and if we really want to kick on then we need to take a good hard look at some of our players and really be hard nosed about it. Cahill, i love him to pieces, but he aint contributing enough footballing qualities to the team.

Hard questions need to be asked and the answers will not be simple ones.
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#8 Bill

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 22:08

Good post Jamie, i think the problem was caused by not replacing Carsley like for like. Castillo and Fellaini might well turn out to be good players but the five man midfield is not working, so he goes for the 4-4-2 and its still not working, we need someone with a bit of pace up front, where once again AJ was not replaced like for like.
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#9 EFC-Paul

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Posted 11 Nov 2008 - 22:27

I agree Jamie mate i dont see a desperate need for a defensive midfielder alot of teams dont use that formula and it doesnt do them any harm. It would not be as bad if we had enough creative quality in the team as it is now then getting a defensive midfielder would be a good move but as we all know we are lacking in the department at present.
As you said Jamie if we are to carry on from where we left off some seriously tough choices will have to be made if we are to become a consistant team who can mix it with the top teams, For me the balance of the team looks all wrong and it doesnt help that we have to resort to playing a striker on the right wing even though Victor has played ok so far he's not what we need.
I'd like to see us go in for Obinna again as i think a pacey winger would give us a big boost and also a midfielder some one similer to the likes of Scott Parker who doesnt mind getting stuck in but can pick out players and break things up.
I suppose it all comes down to funds and with the recent comments regarding investment it doesnt seem like we will have much if any for the January window :rolleyes:

Edited by EFC-Paul, 11 Nov 2008 - 22:28.

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#10 StevO

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 01:24

i dont think we need a DM, two box to box midfielders should be good enough. think vieira/petit. both got up and down in tandem, it seemed to get popular to have a DM, but two hard working fit and strong midfielders will do the trick
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#11 dark

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 07:26

I agree with Jamie's post too. I think that the reason we are/were losing is because we were not hitting the back of the net often enough. Attack is the best for of defence. Put three goals past the opposition and you will almost be guaranteed a win, at the worst a draw. I think that we should start to look at the attacking-midfielder role if anything and try and get a linking player into the action.

If we did go for a defensive midfielder, which we don't need I would go for Sebastien Kehl like Blue4Ever said, he is a fantastic player and has had really good reviews from the top pundits. He won't be the answer to our problems but he will do the job well. We just need to think to ourselves whether defending will win us matches.
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#12 DangerMouse

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 09:30

Is it any coincedence that the top 4 teams play with some sort of holding man in the midfield........

One thing it does allow is a bit of freedom for your full backs...... thats when id play Baines at left back or Lescott if he came around to his form of last year...

Fellini doesnt have that quality to have the game play through him and Id agree that at the moment hes playing more of a CM role.... I honestly dont think hed be effective if we just told him to sit... maybe, maybe not, ive not seen the lad play enough football. So saying that I dont think sticking a more skillfull, attacking player in there would do the trick.....
If we had a really solid man in the middle and someone to play on the right Id stick Arteta in there..... just to pull the strings.. someone to give us a bit of creativity in the middle of the park..... sadly though we dont... and i dont see us getting one.... your looking at paying another 15-20million for someone really decent... unless your lucky and bag yourself a Joe Parkinson / Lee Carsley for next to nothing...

Id like to see us line up like chelsea 4-2-3-1.... but obviously you have to play what suits... I like us playing 4-5-1 but I just dont think we make it attacking enough... Last year was getting close... we ARE a 4-5-1 team... Moyes likes it... the team seems to prefer it, we look balanced when we play it.... and the defence looked solid throughout last year while allowing us to see a bit of attractive free flowing football...

So saying that... the team, I think was familure with our system, it suited and it allowed players to concerntrate on their game, while giving one or two a bit more feedom... Removing Carsley from that, i think, fucked things up big time. If we could have replaced him with someone decent..... or just not let him go at all.... fellini in to replace Osman....Jobs a good un...... DM step aside ha ha

GN JY PJ JL
LC
MF
MA SP
TC
THE YAK

AND HENCE IVE PROVED OUR NEED TO BRING BACK LEE CARSLEY.......OR JOE PARKINSON IF WE ARE A BIT SKINT

Edited by DangerMouse, 12 Nov 2008 - 10:06.

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#13 MikeO

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 09:57

GN JY PJ JL
LC
MF
MA SP
TC
THE YAK



I know he's not signed a new contract yet but surely you mean his kid bro P :huh: ?
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#14 DangerMouse

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 10:05

they both look the same anyway...... :lol:

Edited by DangerMouse, 12 Nov 2008 - 10:05.

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#15 Blue4Ever

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 16:49

Is it any coincedence that the top 4 teams play with some sort of holding man in the midfield........

One thing it does allow is a bit of freedom for your full backs...... thats when id play Baines at left back or Lescott if he came around to his form of last year...

Fellini doesnt have that quality to have the game play through him and Id agree that at the moment hes playing more of a CM role.... I honestly dont think hed be effective if we just told him to sit... maybe, maybe not, ive not seen the lad play enough football. So saying that I dont think sticking a more skillfull, attacking player in there would do the trick.....
If we had a really solid man in the middle and someone to play on the right Id stick Arteta in there..... just to pull the strings.. someone to give us a bit of creativity in the middle of the park..... sadly though we dont... and i dont see us getting one.... your looking at paying another 15-20million for someone really decent... unless your lucky and bag yourself a Joe Parkinson / Lee Carsley for next to nothing...

Id like to see us line up like chelsea 4-2-3-1.... but obviously you have to play what suits... I like us playing 4-5-1 but I just dont think we make it attacking enough... Last year was getting close... we ARE a 4-5-1 team... Moyes likes it... the team seems to prefer it, we look balanced when we play it.... and the defence looked solid throughout last year while allowing us to see a bit of attractive free flowing football...

So saying that... the team, I think was familure with our system, it suited and it allowed players to concerntrate on their game, while giving one or two a bit more feedom... Removing Carsley from that, i think, fucked things up big time. If we could have replaced him with someone decent..... or just not let him go at all.... fellini in to replace Osman....Jobs a good un...... DM step aside ha ha

GN JY PJ JL
LC
MF
MA SP
TC
THE YAK


AND HENCE IVE PROVED OUR NEED TO BRING BACK LEE CARSLEY.......OR JOE PARKINSON IF WE ARE A BIT SKINT

we play poor with no wingers, are team do and always have went down the wing, we dont have enough composure and movement in our team to play anything like a diamond.
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#16 Romey 1878

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 17:19

What I feel we lack is PACE. I can't tell you how pissed off I get watching us attack sometimes. We're so slow and lethargic the majority of the time. We go forward but there's no penetrations because we have no quick players and then we pass sideways or backwards, giving the opposition time to regroup. It's frustrating beyond belief. Arteta may be our most creative player but he is at the centre of our attacking problems IMO. He slows every attack down to the point of snail pace, I want to throttle him a lot of the time.

We need to get players in who will literally tear through the middle of sides, then we can counter attack and really hurt the opposition. I don't mean get players like Lennon, who only have we pace. We need players with SKILL as well as pace, speedsters who can take a man on, not only that but beat a man.
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#17 The Regulator

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 18:10

romey is right about pace, last year we had AJ. Look at the difference that one fast player can make. I think really, we don't need a new DM. Originally, we leaked so many goals it seemed absolutely necessary to have one on the pitch. But let's look at the top 4: Walcott + Nasri, Riera + Babel, Malouda + Kalou, Ronaldo + Nani. They all have players, at least 1 of, starting almost every game with ability down the side of the pitch. REAL ability. Pace, strength, technique, crossing, its all there. So its no surprise that they generate more attacks and create more goals.

In reality our weakness is in our ability to pose a credible threat. Teams aren't afraid of us attacking because we don't look like scoring. Yes our midfield is good on paper, but arteta and osman aren't the sort of players to bomb up and slam a cross straight in front of goal. Arteta as romey said is slow on the break, and this season it seems, inept at grabbing an attack by the horns. A player that can at least get to the opponents bottom third, and then bring it back, gives us a chance to flood their half with 5 or 6 players, and give us a chance at a scoring opportunity. At the moment, it just isn't happening. We don't break fast enough, we don't pass well enough and we don't threaten often enough. If we want half a chance at getting to the level we know we can play at we need someone who isn't afraid of running straight at the opposition defence. Walcott does that, Riera does that, Ronaldo does that. You don't need to be the best player to have the confidence to take the other team on, you just need balls.

So yeah to sum up, a winger with a big round hairy pair of cojones would be a step in the right direction. In my opinion anyway :blink:
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#18 scouse

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 20:04

Have to agree here watching our last couple of games we are crying out for a bit of pace, it was a shame we missed out on SWP and we didnt get a work permit for Obinna, hopefully this will be DM priority in Jan.

If we where to bring in another mid i would love Scott Parker he was excellent against us
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#19 carlmc25

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Posted 12 Nov 2008 - 20:59

I agree we lack pace big time, but I don't think we can point to the AJ factor as he didn't start many games last season and we looked better without him. We are missing Carsley, simple as that. As Dangermouse said, it's no coincidence Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool have DM's and Liverpool have looked a MUCH stronger team now Mascherano is in there rather than having Gerrard/Alonso. I don't agree with Jamie at all, Aston Villa aren't very good and Barry and Reo Coker are fairly negative, they aren't Steven Gerrard types, certainly not Barry anyway. Lampard and Gerrard doesn't work for England, Alonso and Gerrard never really worked for Liverpool because someone needs to sit. To say Vieira and Petit were both to box midfielders is dubious, Vieira was absolutely brilliant, one of my favourite ever non Everton players, but he was no Steven Gerrard, his main skills were all defensive and he usually broke up attacks and sat in front of the defence and occasionally went forward, he only scored about 2 goals a year. Petit was also primarily a holding midfielder. Two DMs can work, two AMs can't. It's no coincidence that Liverpool won a load of trophies with Hamann in their team and it's no surprise that Arsenal have not won a trophy for years since the likes of Vieira, Petit, even Gilberto left and Arsenal play better football than anyone.

Edited by carlmc25, 12 Nov 2008 - 21:01.

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#20 jamiemaher85

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Posted 13 Nov 2008 - 13:10

I agree we lack pace big time, but I don't think we can point to the AJ factor as he didn't start many games last season and we looked better without him. We are missing Carsley, simple as that. As Dangermouse said, it's no coincidence Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool have DM's and Liverpool have looked a MUCH stronger team now Mascherano is in there rather than having Gerrard/Alonso. I don't agree with Jamie at all, Aston Villa aren't very good and Barry and Reo Coker are fairly negative, they aren't Steven Gerrard types, certainly not Barry anyway. Lampard and Gerrard doesn't work for England, Alonso and Gerrard never really worked for Liverpool because someone needs to sit. To say Vieira and Petit were both to box midfielders is dubious, Vieira was absolutely brilliant, one of my favourite ever non Everton players, but he was no Steven Gerrard, his main skills were all defensive and he usually broke up attacks and sat in front of the defence and occasionally went forward, he only scored about 2 goals a year. Petit was also primarily a holding midfielder. Two DMs can work, two AMs can't. It's no coincidence that Liverpool won a load of trophies with Hamann in their team and it's no surprise that Arsenal have not won a trophy for years since the likes of Vieira, Petit, even Gilberto left and Arsenal play better football than anyone.


Aston Villa arn't very good? Results and performances would disagree with you there! They are the only team to really be pushing the top 4 this season. They have a good squad, a good manager, a good owner. I never made any comparison between Barry and Gerrard so I don't see why you start bringing that up. Just becasue he isn't a "Gerrard" type it doesn't mean he isn't a good player. You only have to watch Villa play to see how much they have improved. Martin O'Neill is doing good things for english football.
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#21 c1982

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Posted 13 Nov 2008 - 21:42

Aston Villa arn't very good? Results and performances would disagree with you there! They are the only team to really be pushing the top 4 this season. They have a good squad, a good manager, a good owner. I never made any comparison between Barry and Gerrard so I don't see why you start bringing that up. Just becasue he isn't a "Gerrard" type it doesn't mean he isn't a good player. You only have to watch Villa play to see how much they have improved. Martin O'Neill is doing good things for english football.


Aston Villa are a very good team but if results go how we would expect them to at weekend (e.g. they lose away to arse, we beat boro), we'll be ahead of them! Bad start - wouldn't look so bad if that was the case!

Edited by c1982, 13 Nov 2008 - 21:43.

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#22 dark

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 07:22

I think we found the right time to turn around. Most teams had the same points at the start, some teams like Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool pulled away but most teams stayed around the same points, so when we did beat Bolton and Fulham we managed to snatch a few places due to results going our way. We need to keep going and if we can pick up win after win then we should be up there in a UEFA Cup place.

I think Aston Villa will lose to Arsenal and if the results go our way - Hull losing to Manchester City - then we would go 5th I think. It seems that this season is working out well for us now :)
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#23 DangerMouse

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 12:00

Just a point.... I wasnt trying to put up a diamond formation....

was just ment to be a 4 1 4 1 with TC pushing on... but i thought you would have figured that as i was talking about last year...

oh well just to clear that up
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#24 Randomness

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 12:33

it is lucky we were patient and didnt go mental after the 1st round knockout of both cups. we're becoming a pain team, that is to say, we do nothing and then BAM! and the points are gone.


However any pundit on BBC/Sky money will purr "that is the sign of a quality team"


We need to hammer someone, it could have been newcastle, but we "let our foot off the pedal"
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#25 TC.

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 13:04

personally i think we could use somebody who is specific in this role. i believe we should buy (money permitting) lorik cana, he seems to be a player with no fear and wont hesitate to get in there and tackle anyone. i could see a team forming something like this then:
Howard
Neville, Yobo, Jags, Lescott
Cana
Pienaar, Fellaini, Arteta
Cahill
Yakubu or Saha
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#26 StevO

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 18:42

we could pick our way through the team if we really wanted to.
howard flaps, hibbert cant cross, lescott cant remember the wonderful sport of football, osman isnt strong enough or big enough, arteta has no pace cant cross or hit a set piece, fellaini doesnt like to sprint, baines is gunna take up a different sport where he might be aloud to play, pienaars going to russia, VDM is pissed, cahill is just sheer wonderful, yak cant score but isnt really getting the chances from the midfield, i love louis saha, vaughans enthusiasm gets him in the way of his own team mates this season, vic has/is/will be shit, rodwell and baxter just arent old or experienced enough yet.

so we need the following;
a new keeper,
a new right back,
a new defensive midfielder,
a new central midfielder,
a new attacking midfielder,
two new wingers,
and a new striker.

yobo, jags, saha, baines, you can all stay ;)
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#27 The Regulator

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Posted 14 Nov 2008 - 23:42

we could pick our way through the team if we really wanted to.
howard flaps, hibbert cant cross, lescott cant remember the wonderful sport of football, osman isnt strong enough or big enough, arteta has no pace cant cross or hit a set piece, fellaini doesnt like to sprint, baines is gunna take up a different sport where he might be aloud to play, pienaars going to russia, VDM is pissed, cahill is just sheer wonderful, yak cant score but isnt really getting the chances from the midfield, i love louis saha, vaughans enthusiasm gets him in the way of his own team mates this season, vic has/is/will be shit, rodwell and baxter just arent old or experienced enough yet.

so we need the following;
a new keeper,
a new right back,
a new defensive midfielder,
a new central midfielder,
a new attacking midfielder,
two new wingers,
and a new striker.

yobo, jags, saha, baines, you can all stay ;)


Hope that post was ironic :huh:
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#28 StevO

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Posted 15 Nov 2008 - 18:58

if you have to ask - you'll never know.
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