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A More Positive Take On Things


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#1 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 11 Aug 2009 - 21:31

Hi,

there are various topics on here at present that either start out negatively or over the course of times/aaditional comments become negative. I understand this, we are days away from the opening game and a week away from our qualifying game for Europe. We are also of course 3 weeks from the end of the transfer window and Lescott has handed in a transfer request.

But. Is life really so bad?
As of yet we haven't lost any of the squad that finished 5th (yet again) and reached the FA Cup Final, beating good opposition on the way. It is likely that we will bring players in (and none of us can honstly know who at this stage, take your pick from any number of random rumours or some names we haven't had mentioned yet). We have Yak, Arteta and Jags due back. And, frankly, we are a club that earn a huge load of respect just now - more so than we have had for a long time. Football fans respect the way our club is being run.

Sure, we could have more money and any number of other requests.

I am not suggesting people stop posting negative or critical comments whatsover (who the hell would anyone be to suggest such things) - the internet and website forums are exactly for such discussions. But I just wanted to put my hand up and say that I do beleive there are a good number of our fans that think where we are as a club is very positive.

And for the season ahead, bring it on...
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#2 blueblood

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Posted 11 Aug 2009 - 22:15

Fair comment, and I think our best XI is a good match and capable of giving anyone a game. But... (here comes the negative part!!!) it's a squad game, we have let 4 squad members go and not replaced any of them. That is my main cause of disgruntlement.

Jags is out til November at least, the Yak may take a while to get back and I'm certain Lescott will leave this window.

We need to progress and the only way we can do that is by improving the squad, which is by acquiring newer, better players.

I think the other main cause for concern is that we are in this situation EVERY year. Sign no-one until after the season kicks off despite saying we'll "do it different this year"

Massively frustrating, which is what comes out on the boards here.

Had we signed players to replace the cover (as it was squad players no-one from the starting XI) that we've lost I for one would be a lot more content. However, we have weakened what was already a paper thin squad and that is concerning leading into the season after our most successful campaign in a generation. This season should have been closing the gap between 5th and 4th, I'm not sure many would see us as a certainty for top 6 and Europe next season at this moment in time, which is disappointing in my opinion.
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#3 PFthetoffee

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Posted 12 Aug 2009 - 09:29

Indeed, we will be starting the season with the same side that finished the last so we shouldn't panic and get too downbeat and in one sense, it should theoretically give us a better start to the season - whilst all the other teams around us tinker around trying to find the best 11 and way to play with each other we will be ready from the off (fingers crossed).

BUT....for the sake of continued progress, we must find a new 1st choice RB...the one we have at the moment is a million miles off being a top class, international standard player. We need the quality that baines brings us on left, on the right. Also, with our history of injuries, we really need cover at CB - yobo is off in January and jags may have a relapse of his injury so we MUST keep lescott and get a cover CB. If we dealt with these 2 problems, we could all rest a bit easier.....instead we are chasing an injured midfielder (o'neil)

Hopefully, we will get throughy the transfer window (which is becoming a right pain in the ass) with the players we need and the ones we have already, and we can finally settle into watching us show city how money doesn't buy you success....COYB
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#4 Adpom

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Posted 12 Aug 2009 - 10:04

we lost 4 squad players but look weho we lost.

Last season

AVM never played, even when fit, had about 3 sub aparenaces.
Castillio, played about 4 or 5 games, isn't worth 6mil.
Jacobson, again played a few games because he was out injured all season, (however i think moyes let him go because he was sure he get naughton)
Valentie(was 4th i think) Never played

We signed a few young kids an maybe its time for a few of the kids to step up. Rodwell an Gosling will play alot more this season.

We go Jo in all season, no-one seems to count that as a signing, duno why. He will score goals(at home) If we can get him to score away from home, he could be the signing of the season.

Lescotts going to stay, at least till after the Arsenal game. Otherwise we got 1 fit defender.

I have to admit, i'm starting to get a little worried about the lack of signings, but i do have faith in DM.
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#5 foobiezw

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 05:34

Spot on Philinlondon. All your points are absolutely right.

Having friends supporting mostly the "big four" (and a few that recently jumped ship to man city for 'unknown' reasons), they all agree Everton is pretty much the only club not to have sold it's soul for cash.

Going out on a limb here. I would rather see Everton keep its values (hardwork, smart signings, youth development) and fall down the ladder, than become another city. (please dont hurt me xD)
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#6 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 06:17

Spot on Philinlondon. All your points are absolutely right.

Having friends supporting mostly the "big four" (and a few that recently jumped ship to man city for 'unknown' reasons), they all agree Everton is pretty much the only club not to have sold it's soul for cash.

Going out on a limb here. I would rather see Everton keep its values (hardwork, smart signings, youth development) and fall down the ladder, than become another city. (please dont hurt me xD)


I agree - and although they are a silent majority, there will be more people that agree than you would probably think.
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#7 nogs

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 10:05

Spot on Philinlondon. All your points are absolutely right.

Having friends supporting mostly the "big four" (and a few that recently jumped ship to man city for 'unknown' reasons), they all agree Everton is pretty much the only club not to have sold it's soul for cash.

Going out on a limb here. I would rather see Everton keep its values (hardwork, smart signings, youth development) and fall down the ladder, than become another city. (please dont hurt me xD)


Couldn't agree more. We've been through the backroom turmoil, flushing a fortune down the toilet on wasted dreams and empty promises - as have City, and if I supported them, I'd be a bit worried about what happens in 10 years time when the sheikh gets bored with his new toy. A bit of success in between might be nice, but how much pain to follow?

It might take us another ten years to reach the top, but we're doing it the right way, we're getting to watch good football, we're playing in Europe nearly every season and there's just a buzz about being an Everton fan that wasn't there 10-15 years ago (I'm too young to remember the mid-80s I'm afraid!) I'm looking forward to the season, whether we can improve on last i dunno, hbut i know I'll enjoy it nonetheless, so long may it continue.

And, just to round it off, in Moyes I'm convinced we've got one of the all time greats - this from the Echo yesterday, Moyes quoted as saying: "what we have got inside the club; there isn’t a word for it – you can just see it in the players. It’s built into them." Brought a tear to my eye haha!
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#8 Blue 250

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 16:03

I've been blasted in the past for pointing out that this club is respected in the football world for how things are done......having it pointed out to me that respect wins you nothing!

Some say we can't just stand still if we want to progress...well Liverpool, have lost one of their best players..Alonso who was the play maker, Masherano wants to leave, so do a couple of the other Spanish players....Carrigher is well past his best, Gerrard is more than capable of having a poor season....when he runs out of steam, it will be a sudden thing.....leaving reds fans hoping Torres hamstrings can last all season.....The Yanks are still there....they can't afford a new stadium.Could just be them that City replace in the top 4, and they NEED top 4 like we need Jags back.

Positive....if we make a couple of signings, get Arteta, Yak , Jags, Anichebe and Vaughan up and running....if we can get the best out of Rodwell and Gosling, and Fellaini comes out ready, then yes I'm positive.
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#9 Guest_TheBlueBoy_*

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 17:32

As a visitor i say this...

1. You are a fantastic old club with some of the most layal and passionate fans anywhere in football.
2. You have a world class manager who is only topped by Fergie and Wenger Who is a credit to your club (as he has shown once again with the Lescott fiasco)
3. You have a very strong team (if not squad) Who is capable of making the top4 (In My Opinion)

So don't be too down on yourselves. Sure you could do with a bit more cash to get a couple more quality players in. But remember, You do have a great youth set up!

Would you class that as a "more positive take on things" ???
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#10 Guest_TheBlueBoy_*

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 17:48

Spot on Philinlondon. All your points are absolutely right.

Having friends supporting mostly the "big four" (and a few that recently jumped ship to man city for 'unknown' reasons), they all agree Everton is pretty much the only club not to have sold it's soul for cash.

Going out on a limb here. I would rather see Everton keep its values (hardwork, smart signings, youth development) and fall down the ladder, than become another city. (please dont hurt me xD)


It's easy to say that but....I'm not to sure you would mate

If the shoe was on the other foot what would Everton do diferent to us???
You'd be buying top class players, and you'd love it...

I can understand why people are critisising us. But should they be...Really?
Are we really doing anything other than what everyone else would do in our situation?
Even Chelsea didn't get the stick we're getting...Why? Is it because they were a bit further down the road progress wise than us???

Don't crusify me by the way. I am a friend of you Toffee lads, Not your enemy.
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#11 jamiemaher85

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 17:58

It's easy to say that but....I'm not to sure you would mate

If the shoe was on the other foot what would Everton do diferent to us???
You'd be buying top class players, and you'd love it...

I can understand why people are critisising us. But should they be...Really?
Are we really doing anything other than what everyone else would do in our situation?
Even Chelsea didn't get the stick we're getting...Why? Is it because they were a bit further down the road progress wise than us???

Don't crusify me by the way. I am a friend of you Toffee lads, Not your enemy.

It's nothing personal. I think it was Morrisey that sang "Everyone hates it when there friends become succesful".... very apt I feel.
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#12 Guest_TheBlueBoy_*

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 18:11

It's nothing personal. I think it was Morrisey that sang "Everyone hates it when there friends become succesful".... very apt I feel.


Ha Ha Ha...Yeah. Exactly right. It sure feels that way :lol:
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#13 Blue 250

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 18:20

It's nothing personal. I think it was Morrisey that sang "Everyone hates it when there friends become succesful".... very apt I feel.


Man City have become,it seems, very rich.......at the moment succesful is still a dream!

Blue Boy!.....You have done a very nice job of trying to convince Evertonians that we would all want what you now have.You can't tell me that every Man City fan is happy with what City are becoming!

I would like a level playing field, like the one below 4th place last season....where we finished top, and teams that spent millions more could only look at Everton and wish thay had what we've got.....small squad, no money and 5th place the last two seasons a cup final we could have won with our best team and we've cracked the top 4!

Are you sure you wouldn't really rather be like us instead of just very rich?
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#14 jamiemaher85

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 18:22

Man City have become,it seems, very rich.......at the moment succesful is still a dream!

Blue Boy!.....You have done a very nice job of trying to convince Evertonians that we would all want what you now have.You can't tell me that every Man City fan is happy with what City are becoming!

I would like a level playing field, like the one below 4th place last season....where we finished top, and teams that spent millions more could only look at Everton and wish thay had what we've got.....small squad, no money and 5th place the last two seasons a cup final we could have won with our best team and we've cracked the top 4!

Are you sure you wouldn't really rather be like us instead of just very rich?

I wasn't really saying they where succesful, it was the sentiment of the sentance that I was going for.
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#15 The Beard

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 19:08

It's easy to say that but....I'm not to sure you would mate

If the shoe was on the other foot what would Everton do diferent to us???
You'd be buying top class players, and you'd love it...

I can understand why people are critisising us. But should they be...Really?
Are we really doing anything other than what everyone else would do in our situation?
Even Chelsea didn't get the stick we're getting...Why? Is it because they were a bit further down the road progress wise than us???

Don't crusify me by the way. I am a friend of you Toffee lads, Not your enemy.


To be honest mate, I couldn't agree more. Isn't that the reason we have been praying for a money bags to come in for us. No point having all that dosh and sticking to your old game plan, you adapt to your strengths and if that means blowing everyone out of the water for buying plaers then so be it. Whether it will ruin the game is a different matter. Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd have all had the chance to do it so I don't se the point of knocking someone else when they have the chance.

Edited by The Beard, 13 Aug 2009 - 19:09.

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#16 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 21:34

It's easy to say that but....I'm not to sure you would mate

If the shoe was on the other foot what would Everton do diferent to us???
You'd be buying top class players, and you'd love it...

I can understand why people are critisising us. But should they be...Really?
Are we really doing anything other than what everyone else would do in our situation?
Even Chelsea didn't get the stick we're getting...Why? Is it because they were a bit further down the road progress wise than us???

Don't crusify me by the way. I am a friend of you Toffee lads, Not your enemy.



I agree to be honest. IMO what City are doing is no different than what Chelsea did, and they were not much further down the line than City when Abramovich came a long. They only finished 4th that season for the first time and even that was on the back of Mathew Hardings money. Blackburn did the same and Man Utd and the Shite are no strangers to flashing the cash

City braking into the top4 could end up being great news for all Evertonians if it pushes the Shite out of the Champions League pecking order because they really would be in big trouble if they lost that cash


If it was a choice of seeing City in the top 4 or the Shite I know who I would go for and if it means them doing a Leeds and going into melt down I might even buy Mark Hughes a pint!
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#17 pete0

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Posted 13 Aug 2009 - 22:30

i'd honestly be gutted if we were taken over and done a city, if it was done the villa way i'd be more than happy thou. i think i'd honestly do the unthinkable and support a different team if we became some billionaire play thing like city and bought for the fun of it, jus wouldnt be everton anymore.
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#18 The Beard

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Posted 14 Aug 2009 - 14:21

i'd honestly be gutted if we were taken over and done a city, if it was done the villa way i'd be more than happy thou. i think i'd honestly do the unthinkable and support a different team if we became some billionaire play thing like city and bought for the fun of it, jus wouldnt be everton anymore.


You'd be gutted if we where taken over and decided to flash the cash. Mate i'd be over the fucking moon if we ever got the chance to do what City are doing. So you would gladly let progress go by just to be the same old Everton, maybe it's thinking like that is what is stopping us from progressing.
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#19 Patto

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Posted 14 Aug 2009 - 20:22

i would sit back and enjoy it but it would have to be the right people.
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#20 pete0

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Posted 14 Aug 2009 - 20:36

u might as well go jump on the city band wagon, cos doesnt matter wether its our team or theirs what been taken over cos its jus a billionaires hobby, doesnt matter what team he's took over cos its not the same 1 anymore.
i like how we're progressin, although a little bit of money would help, but i believe the way we are doin things is the right way, it feels like i support a football club not jus some multi-million pound organisation. if we had all these millions an done a complete squad revamp it jus wouldnt be everton anymore, we are famous for our team spirit which i beleive leaks in to the stands and helps intensify our atmosphere, u only need to go on an old chelsea forum to see what real fans of there football club thought and not jus the sheep.
we're the envy of every club below us tryin to compete in the prem, time and time again you hear managers come out and say they want to emulate everton/david moyes so am happy with progressin as same old everton
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#21 The Beard

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Posted 17 Aug 2009 - 22:54

[quote name='pete0' date='14 Aug 2009 - 21:36' timestamp='1250282204' post='180790']
u might as well go jump on the city band wagon,

What the fuck's that supposed to mean. I'm in the real world mate. A real world of football, where money talks. Yes we may have been the envy of the league for staying on the coat-tails of the 'big four' for the past 4 years or so but I fear are progress is about to come to a halt. Why? because we haven't got the money, simple really isn't it. By the way that envy has been transferred to City now, yes envy because of the money, good luck to them I say (i'd be a hypocrite saying anything else). I want us to be up there and if it means doing things this 'horrible City' way then so be it. If you're spouting about revamping a squad that wouldn't be Everton anymore, you reckon we stick with what we have or bring in 1 or 2, frankly that won't be good enough. I also think you may find that the crowd might just stay behind us if a nice litle Billionaire came in, as we have kept roughly the same fanbase through the rough times not like Chelsea whose attendances increased vastly when the money came in.

You don't want this progress then I suggest you jump onto any band wagon that thinks similar.
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#22 Rubecula

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Posted 17 Aug 2009 - 23:53

u might as well go jump on the city band wagon, cos doesnt matter wether its our team or theirs what been taken over cos its jus a billionaires hobby, doesnt matter what team he's took over cos its not the same 1 anymore.
i like how we're progressin, although a little bit of money would help, but i believe the way we are doin things is the right way, it feels like i support a football club not jus some multi-million pound organisation. if we had all these millions an done a complete squad revamp it jus wouldnt be everton anymore, we are famous for our team spirit which i beleive leaks in to the stands and helps intensify our atmosphere, u only need to go on an old chelsea forum to see what real fans of there football club thought and not jus the sheep.
we're the envy of every club below us tryin to compete in the prem, time and time again you hear managers come out and say they want to emulate everton/david moyes so am happy with progressin as same old everton


Ummmm. Have you looked at the table lately? There is no premiership club below us.

But of course, by your words you are saying that that is what you want or you would be supporting someone else. That is what you are saying isn't it?
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#23 pete0

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Posted 18 Aug 2009 - 22:41

rubecula, i wrote it before the season had kicked off so i meant every 1 below us, the 5th best team in the country. but i guess u already knew this and was jus being a twat. this is a forum atleast give ur view not jus try and be funny.
the beard, whats wrong with sticking with what we've got, it was good enough for 5th las year and the year before, and imo an extra 3/4 players would give us a chance to challenge for 4th, no team below us has a better team than us imo, a few teams have got better but i still think we're a head of them, whilst the teams above, chelsea aside have got weaker, and for that reasoning i think jus buyin a few players a year and gradually catchin up is a good way for us to do it. off topic abit on attendences but the main reason we dont sell out so often is not cos we dont have a team of super stars but because of how restricted alot of the views are at our ground is.
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#24 Rubecula

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Posted 19 Aug 2009 - 00:23

PeteO. You began by making a statement that on the face of it seems to be well thought out, and is a valid point of view.

I too think that we are doing things the way they should be done.

You said you posted that before the season began, and in that case I agree we were the fifth best team in the EPL.

Unfortunately at this moment in time the league table shows us to be the worst. We are admired by pundits and maybe other fans in some respect, for the way we do business. This does not mean we are successful at this moment in time. In fact we are not successful unless scoring one consolation goal against Arsenal is a measure of success.

Unless we get some serious investment, we are likely to be going nowhere except downwards. Good intentions amount to nothing in football these days. It would be niice if we could be league champions without ever spending a bent penny. That is something that simply won't happen. Modern football, thanks to the likes of Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool depends on spending money for success to arrive. (OK City and Liverpool seem to be suffering a bit at this moment)

If DM had money to burn, do you think we would be less successful or more successful than we are just now?

DM is a great manager, better than Sparky Hughes, better than Rafa. Just how good could we be if he had money?

But it seems you do not like the idea of having money. That is your viewpoint and you are entitled to it, but I do suspect that you may be in a minority if you think we can challenge for top honours without dosh.

(I was always lead to believe Twats were useful by the way.)
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#25 Adpom

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Posted 19 Aug 2009 - 11:05

Footballs always been about money, even in the 80's, we had the most money an brought the best players, its the same today, only diffrence is its in millions not 100k's
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#26 bluenoseyankee

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Posted 20 Aug 2009 - 04:12

Footballs always been about money, even in the 80's, we had the most money an brought the best players, its the same today, only diffrence is its in millions not 100k's



We had the most money?!?!? oh man what a thought! come on Ambani takeover!
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#27 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 20 Aug 2009 - 09:54

We had the most money?!?!? oh man what a thought! come on Ambani takeover!


Please! The day Kenwright sells is the die he dies.
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#28 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 20 Aug 2009 - 15:42

Footballs always been about money, even in the 80's, we had the most money an brought the best players, its the same today, only diffrence is its in millions not 100k's



lol Since when have we had the most money? I must have been on holiday for that part of the 80's

Neville Southall £150 000
Gary Stevens home grown
Psycho Pat £100 000
Kev the Rat home grown
Mountfield £30 000
Tricky Trev £300 000
Peter Ried £60 000
Paul Bracewell £250 000 ( I think!)
Kevin Sheedy £100 000
Graham Sharp £120 000
Andy Gray £250 000


And this in the era of the million pound footballers!
A
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#29 SharpysVolley

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Posted 20 Aug 2009 - 16:03

Tony Cottee 1988 British transfer record
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#30 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 20 Aug 2009 - 16:16

Tony Cottee 1988 British transfer record



An exception rather than a rule I would have thought, and even when we bought Cottee we were not even close to having the most money

Edited by duncanmckenzieismagic, 20 Aug 2009 - 16:17.

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#31 MikeO

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Posted 23 Aug 2009 - 17:05

OK. Lose the first game of the season in embarrassing fashion at home to North London side, then lose the next game away at unfancied team by the odd goal. Optimism after Cup Final appearance a few short months ago rapidly fades :( .

What happens next?

Well in 84/85 we did pretty good :) .

(Early entry for "straw clutching post of the year" award :P ).
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#32 The Beard

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Posted 23 Aug 2009 - 19:30

Yep, stick with me Kid, i'll be wearing diamonds, my arse. After watching that crap, that fucking crap................sometimes, you just want to give up........
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#33 MikeO

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Posted 23 Aug 2009 - 20:17

................sometimes, you just want to give up........

Never, never, never, never, never! Maybe (just maybe mind) when I'm in my box.

For God's sake any Evertonian over the age of twelve has been through far worse than this haven't they?
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#34 jamiemaher85

jamiemaher85

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Posted 23 Aug 2009 - 20:38

Never, never, never, never, never! Maybe (just maybe mind) when I'm in my box.

For God's sake any Evertonian over the age of twelve has been through far worse than this haven't they?

It's true and I think that alot of people forget how bad things where before BK came in. Expectations have been raised so much recently that we are begining to get ahead of ourselves with what we believe we deserve in the league. I've enjoyed the last few years so much becasue sucess has come as a surprise, Getting into Europe is something that i never thought thatwould happen when supporting during the 90's. In recent I would always go to Goodison still expecting the worst and being pleasantly surprised when things started going well as I was still in the negative suporting head space from the 90's, however now I have a real sense of expectancy when I go, and this is what is makng things worse now, and i feel that this is probably a very similar feelig to other fans right now. It's the expectancy that is the worse thing at the moment. I curse the day I started to enjoy myself again :P
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#35 Adpom

Adpom

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Posted 24 Aug 2009 - 12:00

Yeah Dion Dublins equlizer was a very very scary moment. lucky chelsea did us a massive favour that day beating Bolton, Bolton missed loads of sitters that day. So losing the first 2 games of the season don't worry me. I'm far happyer now as an Everton fan then i was back on that season.
i'm not worried, its just a blip an the first time in 68 games we lost 2 games in the league in a row, only chelsea have a better record. Soon the team will be firing on all cylianders.
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#36 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 24 Aug 2009 - 12:04

For God's sake any Evertonian over the age of twelve has been through far worse than this haven't they?
[/quote]


New Year's Eve 1983 against Coventry anyone?

Cue, the Manor Ground, Oxford, a sloppy backpass and...!

No need for panic just yet folks. I'll reconsider my stance after the 2nd leg of the qualifier and Wigan at home.
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