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Why Big Dunc Was/is King!


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#1 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 21:37

http://www.footballf...ertonians/16258
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#2 Parapluie

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 21:50

We need another Big Dunc
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#3 Ian C

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 21:58

We need another Big Dunc


Any particular reason why we need an average striker with a penchant for headbutting and intimidating referees?


And here's me thinking people had begun to enjoy Saha scoring from 25 yards :/
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#4 MikeO

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 22:10

Read that earlier and it made me laugh a lot.

Have a vague understanding of why Evertonians of a certain generation might think highly of him....but that article is truly pathetic and embarrassing.
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#5 Evertonian_George

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 23:01

Any particular reason why we need an average striker with a penchant for headbutting and intimidating referees?


And here's me thinking people had begun to enjoy Saha scoring from 25 yards :/


Exactly!
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#6 StevO

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Posted 29 Aug 2009 - 23:19

Duncan Ferguson was Everton Football Club.


when we have legends like dixie, bally and labone resting in their graves, lines like that make me sick.

dunc was my idol as a kid, but now im older and more realistic, he was simply the best of a bad bunch.
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#7 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 07:35

Any particular reason why we need an average striker with a penchant for headbutting and intimidating referees?


And here's me thinking people had begun to enjoy Saha scoring from 25 yards :/



Because Ferguson has never done that?????????????

Man Utd away great turn great goal!

If Saha ever puts a shift in like Ferguson did then we would have a very good forward on our hands
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#8 AndyF

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 08:31

Well I enjoyed reading the article! Duncan was and still IS my all-time hero. Just the sight of him on the pitch had the majority going nuts! His presence was second to none and he put the chills in the hearts of opposition defences. THAT is why Duncan WAS and IS King!
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#9 Romey 1878

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 08:50

Embarrassing.

I liked Dunc when I was growing up but to talk about him like he's a legend is just sad.
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#10 c1982

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 09:02

Some of the older chaps on here have to understand that big Dunc was and still is the biggest hero that some of the younger members have seen at Goodison. They've not experienced Everton's glory days of Dean, Ball, Young, Labone, Gray, Sheedy and even Southall... big Dunc's the best they've experienced. I would say I'm slightly older than this generation so I at least experienced some of the success in the late 80's and have been told of past heroes from my dad and grandfather. The 2 lad's I go with haven't got a family background to Everton and have been ST holders for 12 seasons now so to people like this Big Dunc is the stand out character of the era.

To me, I enjoyed the experience at matches in Big Dunc's time - during a dire patch in our history he was the main player to get the crowd going and give many hope. He could have been so much more but discipline/ injuries affected this. He can't be uttered in the same breath as some our legends ability and productivity wise but he deserves his 'hero' status because of 'his time' as the main man for the GP faithful. For much of his time with us he was the best of a bad bunch but being the best of this best bunch he gave many a reason to come to GP and be excited about Everton Football Club.

On a final note he's a good man anyway, I respect his loyalty shown to our club and am envious of all the work he has done for charities. I will always remember him fondly (especially his goal vs shite in Joe Royle's 1st match and Bolton hat-trick!)
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#11 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 09:30

Some of the older chaps on here have to understand that big Dunc was and still is the biggest hero that some of the younger members have seen at Goodison. They've not experienced Everton's glory days of Dean, Ball, Young, Labone, Gray, Sheedy and even Southall... big Dunc's the best they've experienced. I would say I'm slightly older than this generation so I at least experienced some of the success in the late 80's and have been told of past heroes from my dad and grandfather. The 2 lad's I go with haven't got a family background to Everton and have been ST holders for 12 seasons now so to people like this Big Dunc is the stand out character of the era.

To me, I enjoyed the experience at matches in Big Dunc's time - during a dire patch in our history he was the main player to get the crowd going and give many hope. He could have been so much more but discipline/ injuries affected this. He can't be uttered in the same breath as some our legends ability and productivity wise but he deserves his 'hero' status because of 'his time' as the main man for the GP faithful. For much of his time with us he was the best of a bad bunch but being the best of this best bunch he gave many a reason to come to GP and be excited about Everton Football Club.

On a final note he's a good man anyway, I respect his loyalty shown to our club and am envious of all the work he has done for charities. I will always remember him fondly (especially his goal vs shite in Joe Royle's 1st match and Bolton hat-trick!)




Well said!

The only thing I dont subscribe to is that he was the best of a bad bunch.

If he had been in a better Everton team then he would undoutably have been an even better player himself.
He was starved of service during his time at the club, just imagine what he could have done with people like Tricky Trevor and Kevin Sheedy supplying the ammo with decent crosses from out wide that he could attack instead of having to make do with a fourty yard punt upfield from Unsworth when he had his back to goal

I personally think he deserves his place as a cult hero and to just dismiss him as a thug as some people in here want to do is totally out of order and IMO very ignorant

Im old enough to remember the likes of Bob Latchford, Sharp, Gray and Lineker and he is right up there with those players

Long Live King Dunc!!!
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#12 Blue 250

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 09:32

There was nothing sneaky about Duncan, if he was going to whack you, he would just do it.Plenty of other thugs get away with murder, just because you dont always see it.Take away Duncans physical side and he wouldn't have been as effective.He was a rebel rouser and at times a bloody good footballer.With the right service and luck with injuries he would have been an even better player.

Present day Everton punt every other ball skywards, I'm pretty sure Duncan would have won a dam sight more of these than Yakubu, Saha and Jo!

I wonder what a fully fit Ferguson, Cahill in and around him, Pienaar to feed him and a Russian winger supplying crosses to him could have done to Wigan today!I for one would have liked to have seen it.
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#13 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 10:09

There are some simply silly responses to this post, MikeO in particular hasn't cover himself in glory (well he may have done but that's his personal affair). A hero is somebody/thing that inspires an individual/people, hence people's heroes are purely down to personal preference. Ferguson was a hero to many (including me), not for necessarily his on field ability but his character and undying love for the club. In a age where loyalty counts for nothing, Ferguson made it publicly known he was sold under duress and come back the first chance he could. If we look at dear Mr Lescott/Rooney/Jeffers/Barmby et all, then you'll see what I'm driving at.

Ferguson is a true Evertonian, an outsider who fell in love with the club an still loves it to this day. An icon who give 110% to the cause, which the fans took to especially in the dark days of Walter Smith. A family man who returns often to the club, is well known and loved by many in the local area, and even was part of the KEIOC officially.

My era wasn't Duncan Ferguson, I said before it was Bob Latchford's, but the reasons presented are why 'The Big Yin' is an Everton legend to me and countless others.
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#14 MikeO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 10:32

There are some simply silly responses to this post, MikeO in particular hasn't cover himself in glory

Said here (and before) that I kind of understand about Ferguson, and that people will never agree.
My problem in this case was the article.

Just interested to know though how you (and others) can glamorise, lionise and hero worship this..

..while he let both himself and us down on too many occasions with some shameful sending's off - but good punches, mind - Duncan provided us all with some of our most treasured Everton moments. Who can forget the sight of Freund's throat in the grasp of the marauding Scotsman as the German gasped for air?


But when Jeffers put's the head in, you say..

A waste of a career, young footballers should learn from the likes of Jeffers and do the right thing. But I have absolutely no sympathy for him.

I'm guessing it's OK to be violent on the pitch if you say and do the right things off it.
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#15 IrbyJFC

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 11:35

Well im one of those who grew up loving Dunc and yes i agree he wasnt the greastest player but who cares thats not what makes him a legend in my eyes... What makes him a legend is the way he made you feel the atmosphere he created... his mere presence at times inspired players and fans.. Thats why hes a legend!
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#16 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 11:41

Said here (and before) that I kind of understand about Ferguson, and that people will never agree.
My problem in this case was the article.

Just interested to know though how you (and others) can glamorise, lionise and hero worship this..



But when Jeffers put's the head in, you say..


I'm guessing it's OK to be violent on the pitch if you say and do the right things off it.




Lol I can remeber the Steffan Freund incident because I was at that game and if ever a player deserved to be throttled it was him so I can completely understand why he lost it on that occasion.

The only time I can remember an incident while he was playing for us were you couldnt defend him was when he punched the Bolton lad

He was just a hard man who gave as good as he got. I dont think he was anymore aggresive than Shearer but he was victimised by referees
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#17 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 12:38

Just interested to know though how you (and others) can glamorise, lionise and hero worship this..

But when Jeffers put's the head in, you say..

I'm guessing it's OK to be violent on the pitch if you say and do the right things off it.


Jeffers never had the club at heart, nor did he give just service to it. When Moyes brought him back on loan, he didn't score a goal and then kicked off with Moyes, apparently because he was subbed. Hence why now in the twilight of his career I have no sympathy for him.
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#18 MikeO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 12:45

Jeffers never had the club at heart, nor did he give just service to it. When Moyes brought him back on loan, he didn't score a goal and then kicked off with Moyes, apparently because he was subbed. Hence why now in the twilight of his career I have no sympathy for him.

So like I said, in your book it's OK (in fact heroic) to be a thug if you're a loyal Evertonian thug. If you're not a loyal Evertonian you're a bad example to youngsters and deserve what you get.
That's what I thought you meant. You're entitled to the opinion, I just don't agree with it.
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#19 StevO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 13:00

Captain, you will not change anybodies mind about Ferguson. he will go down as one of the great discussions, just like kirkby. some will defend it to the hilt, others just wont see the positives.

as ive said many times, he was my idol, until i knew any better.
i'm full of respect for the man, he does great charity work, but he has his flaws.
even joe royle, his biggest fan, said he had all the tools to be one of the greats, he just didnt have the determination or the luck.
he never saw his potential, shame.
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#20 Maghull70

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 16:16

I loved Dunc, he provided hope and pride in a dire time in EFC history. However I thought he was over rated. Loved him but didnt think he was a fantastic footballer. Yes he had his good games and when on form he was great but that was not often enough for my liking.

ANYWAY, wasnt ANDY "KING" ??????.
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#21 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 17:05

So like I said, in your book it's OK (in fact heroic) to be a thug if you're a loyal Evertonian thug. If you're not a loyal Evertonian you're a bad example to youngsters and deserve what you get.
That's what I thought you meant. You're entitled to the opinion, I just don't agree with it.


That's funny that is, as I never said or meant that. Shearer was far worse than Dunc, Gazza personal life, Gerrard on and off field antics, Maradona, etc etc. All have checkered histories, yet are heroes to many. Thuggery is unacceptable, but neither is corruption, lying, binge drinking, rape, murder, etc. Many things some find ok because they want do it, anyway that's another debate. I respect Dunc for this effect and love of the club, not the crimes he committed, except when two burglars tried to burgle his home!
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#22 efc-murph

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 17:22

i would class Big Dunc as one of my heroes. im only 20 and when i was growing up it was always duncs name floating around. i do understand where some of you lot are coming from as he was 'thug like' but in my eyes he loved playing in the blue shirt. but how i wish i was growing up watching the likes of ball, harvey, kendall and labone! they were real heroes/legends!
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#23 Ian C

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 17:28

That's funny that is, as I never said or meant that. Shearer was far worse than Dunc, Gazza personal life, Gerrard on and off field antics, Maradona, etc etc. All have checkered histories, yet are heroes to many. Thuggery is unacceptable, but neither is corruption, lying, binge drinking, rape, murder, etc. Many things some find ok because they want do it, anyway that's another debate. I respect Dunc for this effect and love of the club, not the crimes he committed, except when two burglars tried to burgle his home!



Did you just seriously compare Duncan Ferguson to Maradona, Gerrard, Shearer and Gascoigne? :lol: Four of the greatest players ever to grace the game.

Ferguson isn't even on Cahill's level.
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#24 StevO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 17:34

Ferguson isn't even on Cahill's level.


good shout
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#25 MikeO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 18:04

Thuggery is unacceptable, but neither is corruption, lying, binge drinking, rape, murder, etc.

Binge drinking :huh: ?
That's 90% of the teenagers in the country done for then :lol: (not to mention most of our members....Aaron's going down for life :D ).
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#26 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 19:31

Did you just seriously compare Duncan Ferguson to Maradona, Gerrard, Shearer and Gascoigne? :lol: Four of the greatest players ever to grace the game.

Ferguson isn't even on Cahill's level.


They were used as an example, no comparisons.
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#27 Calico

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 19:40

If he would have left the violence alone then maybe he would have scored more goals?

I'm just of the mind that I would be inspired more by great goal-scoring from a forward rather than head-butting and the like.

I suppose in times of darkness people are more desperate and, if nothing else, this article - and topic as a whole - really puts the amazing work Moyes has put in into proper context.

Long live Arteta, Pienaar and the footballers of Everton FC.
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#28 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 20:12

Its starting to wind me up that people are writting him off as a thug and whats with all the head butting nonsense?

How many players can you say that you have seen him head butt and before anyone jumps on the band wagon and says that is what he was jailed for get a life. If that was a head butt half the players in the football league would be banged up by now. Even the opposing player spoke up for him at the trial.
It was a which hunt and Ferguson payed a heavy price for it, now my memory may be clouded but that is the only so called head butting incident I can ever remember him being involved in, feel free to correct me if Im wrong

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but its utter crap to try and make him out to be some kind of talentless moron who only ever went around punching and butting people

He was a hard centre forward who gave as good as he got. Its a contact sport and in those days many a centre half would kick lumps out of a forward to try and intimidate him

Was Dave Watson a thug? Was Tommy Smith a thug? Was Stuart Pearce a thug?
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#29 Calico

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 20:33

In those days? You mean seven-to-twelve years ago? He played under Moyes as well as those before DM.

I wouldn't call him a simple thug, as he did have talent.

But certainly I couldn't call him a legend, he didn't score enough goals or play enough football IMO.
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#30 Tricky Trev

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 21:03

Any particular reason why we need an average striker with a penchant for headbutting and intimidating referees?


And here's me thinking people had begun to enjoy Saha scoring from 25 yards :/

Probably because like alot of us on this site we can remember what its like to have a crap team and to cling to a man like Dunc or Bob.
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#31 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 22:44

Its starting to wind me up that people are writting him off as a thug and whats with all the head butting nonsense?

How many players can you say that you have seen him head butt and before anyone jumps on the band wagon and says that is what he was jailed for get a life. If that was a head butt half the players in the football league would be banged up by now. Even the opposing player spoke up for him at the trial.
It was a which hunt and Ferguson payed a heavy price for it, now my memory may be clouded but that is the only so called head butting incident I can ever remember him being involved in, feel free to correct me if Im wrong

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but its utter crap to try and make him out to be some kind of talentless moron who only ever went around punching and butting people

He was a hard centre forward who gave as good as he got. Its a contact sport and in those days many a centre half would kick lumps out of a forward to try and intimidate him

Was Dave Watson a thug? Was Tommy Smith a thug? Was Stuart Pearce a thug?


Spot on!
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#32 MikeO

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 23:06

Its starting to wind me up that people are writting him off as a thug...

And it winds other people up that people are calling him a legend.

It's not something that people are going to change their mind on (Marmite analogy someone mentioned was spot on). Think it's best left alone....it'll be back time and again for sure though :) .
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#33 DonKey

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 23:23

I had the privilege to meet big Dunc twice. Once when he came into Kirklands, where I used to work and then when I went for a photo with the FA cup in Littlewoods in town. Got to the front of the queue and he remembered me from months before.

Back on topic..... the guy was legend of his time. He inspired the fans, and teamates, and shook up the opposition and you could almost always guarantee that something would happen when he was on the pitch. In terms of 'Legend' status over other greats, I do think Dunc will always be a hero more due to personality than sheer technical ability, but there are more deserving folk to be labelled as legends!
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#34 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 30 Aug 2009 - 23:39

And it winds other people up that people are calling him a legend.

It's not something that people are going to change their mind on (Marmite analogy someone mentioned was spot on). Think it's best left alone....it'll be back time and again for sure though :) .



Well unfortunately for you I think the history books will recall him as a legend wether you like it or not. Wether or not he deserves that tally is all down to opinion

I agree the Marmite analogy is a good one, as has been proven by this thread
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#35 Calico

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 00:10

The history books? Which history books? This label aroused my curiosity.
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#36 CraccerC

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 00:45

wasn't, isn't and never will be...laughable
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#37 Maghull70

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 01:02

Probably because like alot of us on this site we can remember what its like to have a crap team and to cling to a man like Dunc or Bob.


Crap team around BOB?????. Youre havin a laugh arent you. OK, it was a barren period but we shouldve won the league, shouldve won the league cup and but for a particular ref wouldve got to the FA Cup final in '77. The mid 70's Everton was a great team. (King, Dobson, Thomas, McKenzie etc). the best team to win sod all in my opinion.

Understand what your saying about clinging to a hero but think you did the 70's EFC an injustice by calling them crap.

Back to Dunc and was he any good. DUNC - played 272 scored 72. LATCHFORD - played 289 scored 138. And Midfielder ANDY KING - played 247 scored 68 !!!!!!!.

Dunc was good but not THAT good. Hes popular more for his fight and passion than his actual footballing ability.

Edited by Maghull70, 31 Aug 2009 - 01:03.

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#38 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 07:16

The history books? Which history books? This label aroused my curiosity.


Definition for history-


history [ hístəri ] (plural histories)


noun

Definition:

1. what has happened: the past events of a period in time or in the life or development of a people, an institution, or a place


2. study of past events: the branch of knowledge that records and analyses past events


3. record of events: a chronological account of past events of a period or in the life or development of a people, an institution, or a place
a history of Byzantium



... Definition: past events, experiences Antonyms: future ... The diverse sources of history include books, newspapers, printed documents, personal papers




Hope this helps!
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#39 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 07:23

wasn't, isn't and never will be...laughable



In your opinion


Do you not think it is a little arrogant and indeed ignorant that you are passing off the views of thousands of Evertonians as laughable?

Edited by duncanmckenzieismagic, 31 Aug 2009 - 09:43.

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#40 Peter

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Posted 31 Aug 2009 - 09:54

...Back to Dunc and was he any good. DUNC - played 272 scored 72. LATCHFORD - played 289 scored 138. And Midfielder ANDY KING - played 247 scored 68 !!!!!!!.

Dunc was good but not THAT good. Hes popular more for his fight and passion than his actual footballing ability.


I think it's been stated again and again that he deserves a legendary status for his passion on and off the pitch, not in particular for his footballing ability. Which in my opinion still was better than decent. Posting his scoring record in that context doesn't prove much of anything as some of those games happened through what was to me personally the worst years supporting Everton.

I tried to go through the Latchford and King eras but apart from seeing that Everton ended:
4th 74/75,
11th 75/76,
9th 76/77,
3rd 77/78 and
4th 78/79 from Wikipedia I won't go into any further detail. Bear in mind though that this was also before the Premier League makeover.
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