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#41 Lowensda

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Posted 23 Sep 2009 - 12:52

Interesting read btw - http://www.newsnow.c...72445263?-11192
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#42 hafnia

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Posted 23 Sep 2009 - 12:55

Interesting read btw - http://www.newsnow.c...72445263?-11192



Beat me to it. Eloquently written, highlights many of the points that have driven me insane. Expect it to be removed from the feed at some stage if one of his points are true!
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#43 carlmc25

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 09:38

I think it's not the case of who spent how much - it's a case of how much did they need to spend to strengthen their squad adequately.


Man u NO - Sold Ronaldo and lost Tevez, bought in Valencia, Owen, Obertan and already have a massive squad - 52 players per position at least with Hargreaves coming back.

Arsenal NO - Sold Adebuyor and Toure - bought in Vermaelen and have an outragous number of youngsters coming through

Chelsea NO - big squad already, borught in zhirkov - 18m

Liverpool NO - lost alonso - brought in Johnson and Aquilaini to add to an already decent sized squad.



Everton: Struggled through last season having to play the same players with little rest. Injuries meant threadbare squad relied on youngsters with little or no premier league expreience sitting on the bench. Lost Valente, Castillo, Jacobsen and Lescott as senior players. Brought in: Billy, Heitinga, Distin and under the realisation that we are still threadbare Lucas Neill.

Yes we have strengthened in quality a little maybe, the damning fact remains is that our nearest rivals such as Villa and Spurs have strengthened what were already stronger squads than us.

If we are to continue to look to improve we need to get strength in depth. We are always 2 injuries away from a disaster - our first 11 is great, how often do the first 11 stay fit?

I applaud those who continue to look at the glass being half full - I wish I could. Fact is history has a way of repeating itself at this club. The only thing that keeps it positive is the work that Moyes and the boys do. We are being let down at a higher level.

Burning question: "How much is Everton up for sale for?"

This quite frankly is rubbish. Liverpool finished in the top 4, have a huge worldwide fanbase and only had a net spend of about 5 million and they only have one decent recognised striker - Torres. If he gets injured they're in big trouble. They have virtually no depth anywhere, they have a brilliant first eleven but a rubbish squad, hence why they most likely won't win the league again. United have definitely weakened however you look at it, Villa didn't spend much and lost their best player etc.

You mention about selling Rodwell in the future, we all hope this won't happen but if it's for the good of the club (like Lescott and Rooney) then what is the problem? Selling Lescott and Rooney has not weakened our club, it isn't making us go backwards, it's giving us the finances to help Moyes take us that next step into the top 4 and has had substantial benefits for the club already. I genuinely believe (for the first time in a long time) that we would win something this season. We have an excellent squad, easily our best in the last 20 years which has cover in every position on the pitch, we can now cope with cup runs and still achieve a high finish in the league. Finishing in the top 6 is going to be difficult this year, I think we can do it (even top 4) but at the same time I wouldn't be overly devastated if we finished 7th and won the Europa Cup. I think this year is going to be a great year for Everton fans, we've done some great transfer business and performances and results are now picking up, once Arteta is back we'll explode and start winning virtually every match. We have a very good team, as long as Moyes gets the right balance. I don't understand why Everton fans are so pessimistic, we don't have Mike Walker or Walter Smith anymore, we have one of the world's best managers and some fantastic players.
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#44 carlmc25

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 09:42

Beat me to it. Eloquently written, highlights many of the points that have driven me insane. Expect it to be removed from the feed at some stage if one of his points are true!

Portsmouth, Notts County, QPR and Southampton? not exactly clubs I'm hoping to emulate, maybe Kenwright is waiting for the 'right' buyer rather than just anyone who apparently has some cash (look at Pompey post Gaydamak era).
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#45 EFC-Paul

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 10:43

This quite frankly is rubbish. Liverpool finished in the top 4, have a huge worldwide fanbase and only had a net spend of about 5 million and they only have one decent recognised striker - Torres. If he gets injured they're in big trouble. They have virtually no depth anywhere, they have a brilliant first eleven but a rubbish squad, hence why they most likely won't win the league again. United have definitely weakened however you look at it, Villa didn't spend much and lost their best player etc.

You mention about selling Rodwell in the future, we all hope this won't happen but if it's for the good of the club (like Lescott and Rooney) then what is the problem? Selling Lescott and Rooney has not weakened our club, it isn't making us go backwards, it's giving us the finances to help Moyes take us that next step into the top 4 and has had substantial benefits for the club already. I genuinely believe (for the first time in a long time) that we would win something this season. We have an excellent squad, easily our best in the last 20 years which has cover in every position on the pitch, we can now cope with cup runs and still achieve a high finish in the league. Finishing in the top 6 is going to be difficult this year, I think we can do it (even top 4) but at the same time I wouldn't be overly devastated if we finished 7th and won the Europa Cup. I think this year is going to be a great year for Everton fans, we've done some great transfer business and performances and results are now picking up, once Arteta is back we'll explode and start winning virtually every match. We have a very good team, as long as Moyes gets the right balance. I don't understand why Everton fans are so pessimistic, we don't have Mike Walker or Walter Smith anymore, we have one of the world's best managers and some fantastic players.


Totally agree mate especially with the highlighted part.
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#46 hafnia

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 11:58

[quote name='carlmc25' date='24 Sep 2009 - 10:38' timestamp='1253785091' post='188718']
This quite frankly is rubbish. Liverpool finished in the top 4, have a huge worldwide fanbase and only had a net spend of about 5 million and they only have one decent recognised striker - Torres. If he gets injured they're in big trouble. They have virtually no depth anywhere, they have a brilliant first eleven but a rubbish squad, hence why they most likely won't win the league again. United have definitely weakened however you look at it, Villa didn't spend much and lost their best player etc.

You mention about selling Rodwell in the future, we all hope this won't happen but if it's for the good of the club (like Lescott and Rooney) then what is the problem? Selling Lescott and Rooney has not weakened our club, it isn't making us go backwards, it's giving us the finances to help Moyes take us that next step into the top 4 and has had substantial benefits for the club already.


Quite frankly rubbish? Tell me a team that has broken into the top 4 by selling their best/world class players without having a ready made equal or better successor bedded into the club?

Henry left Arsenal, replaced by Adebuyor, Viera left Arsenal replaced by Fabregas. Beckham left Man Utd, replaced by Ronaldo, so on and so on.


Everton - Rooney left, replaced by Marcus Bent and Tim Cahill. Lescott left, replaced by a v.good player admittedly - however has 2 years at top left. Selling Rooney and Lescott generated somewhere in the region of 45m. The money from Rooney was basically used to keep our heads above water, the money from Lescott was used to cover two extra postions that were evidently weak, that if we had addressed earlier (given finance) we may have won the FA Cup.

Now please let me know how you think selling Rodwell could be for the good of the club?
Whilst we are quite unable to beat other teams to signings when they express an interest in the likes of Rasmus Elm and Kyle Naughton, do you honestly think we are going to get someone in who can fill Rodwells boots?, cos if there was someone, they would be getting offered far more money by the likes of Aston Villa, Spurs, let alone the top 4.

It all depends on your contentment to accept what is happening at our club, if you are happy with a Doug Ellis type Aston Villa, then enjoy what we have now before the likes of Arteta, Rodwell, and Jags seek Champions league football and the whole cycle of bargain buying continues again (probably without the stewardship of Moyes who will by then be off to a different club). Villa have had a resurgence under Randy lerner that makes the Villa of old (John Fashanu, Steve Staunton, Ron atkinson, John Gregory, bloated Ginola) a distant memory.

If you are happy to let Moyes achievements give the current ownership then fine. I for one am amazed by what Moyes has done for this club and I am really proud of the team we have and hope that we can challenge the top 6 this season. However the potential of this team with a couple more class signings is that of a league challenge, Under the current board, do you think we will get the support to do that? Please don't ask me to look at figures, I do this day in day out for my job - we are fans of the club, we are not and should not be expected to be accountants and feel sympathy for those that do not have the financial muscle to run it in the way it should.
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#47 jofanon

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 12:26

A good defender seems easier to find than a good midfielder for some reason too.

Rodders has to stay.
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#48 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 12:29

I genuinely believe (for the first time in a long time) that we would win something this season. We have an excellent squad, easily our best in the last 20 years which has cover in every position on the pitch, we can now cope with cup runs and still achieve a high finish in the league.


Either you weren't around in the eighties, or you are being overly optimistic.
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#49 MikeO

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 12:48

Either you weren't around in the eighties, or you are being overly optimistic.

Twenty years ago it was September 1989, so what does the team of the eighties have to do with it :huh: ?
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#50 iggy

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 12:52

Hafnia - Just to pick up on a point here, Bent & Cahill were bought in June/July respctively, Rooney was sold on 31st August.
At the next window he got in James Beattie and Mikel Arteta (On loan).


Captain - Being picky again, 89/90 we finished 6th a feat only once equalled mid 90's and not bettered until DM's reign, so he is right in many ways ;)
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#51 Lowensda

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 13:04

I thought that on both counts Iggy, i just didnt want to seem picky!
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#52 iggy

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 13:08

I thought that on both counts Iggy, i just didnt want to seem picky!


Hehe, slow day in the office! :)
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#53 hafnia

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 13:59

Without being analytical to the point of using google we are running a sell to buy business. The major saleable assets we have now are ones that would form part of a first team of a title contending team. Taking two or three steps forward without taking one back is what we need. If we had strength in depth we would have had champions league football. We have been hindered by our weak right hand side and inabilty to cover injuries. By the way as an fyi, we were on the decline in 89 as we had sold our title winning players of 85 to the likes of rangers, marseille etc as they had european cup aspirations. 20 years, 24 years whatever. Nil satis nisi optimum looks a nice bit of latin, it's what it means that we need to remember.
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#54 carlmc25

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 15:32

Without being analytical to the point of using google we are running a sell to buy business. The major saleable assets we have now are ones that would form part of a first team of a title contending team. Taking two or three steps forward without taking one back is what we need. If we had strength in depth we would have had champions league football. We have been hindered by our weak right hand side and inabilty to cover injuries. By the way as an fyi, we were on the decline in 89 as we had sold our title winning players of 85 to the likes of rangers, marseille etc as they had european cup aspirations. 20 years, 24 years whatever. Nil satis nisi optimum looks a nice bit of latin, it's what it means that we need to remember.

Man Utd have sold Beckham, Ronaldo, Ince, Van Nistelrooy etc. No one player is bigger than the club, would you rather we had Rooney and were playing in the Championship? We all want more money, we all know that with a little more investment we could potentially be serious challengers for the top 2 or 3 but we don't all want just any old millionaire taking over the club as some of them don't actually put any of their money into the club they just put the club further into debt and then leave them high and dry when they walk away. Peter Johnson was a rich man, what did he do for Everton? I believe that Kenwright is waiting for the right investor and at the moment, with the ground the way it is etc it may just be that the right investor is not interested in us. We're moving forward every season, I for one am happy with that.
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#55 hafnia

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Posted 24 Sep 2009 - 17:33

Man Utd have sold Beckham, Ronaldo, Ince, Van Nistelrooy etc. No one player is bigger than the club, would you rather we had Rooney and were playing in the Championship? We all want more money, we all know that with a little more investment we could potentially be serious challengers for the top 2 or 3 but we don't all want just any old millionaire taking over the club as some of them don't actually put any of their money into the club they just put the club further into debt and then leave them high and dry when they walk away. Peter Johnson was a rich man, what did he do for Everton? I believe that Kenwright is waiting for the right investor and at the moment, with the ground the way it is etc it may just be that the right investor is not interested in us. We're moving forward every season, I for one am happy with that.



The above mentioned players for United had either had past their sell by date with Sir Alex, and he deemed them surplus to requirements, or they had achieved all there was to achieve in the premiership. Not one of them was sold to a Premiership rival and all were sold for a major profit. None of our players could leave stating that they need a fresh challenge after achieving all the trophies they could at Everton (I would love it if that was the case).

Seeing Rooney sign for Man U was arguably one of the toughest things I have had to stomach as an Evertonian, when someone becomes the saviour of a team, it's usually because they great things on the pitch, Rooney unfortunately was the saviour for Everton because he was sold to ease our debts. I want to see the day when we have a team consisting of Arteta, Rodwell, Jagielka, Gosling, Baxter (and Billy) lifting the Premier league trophy, the only way that will happen is if we have a different financial model, because as they get better, the big boys will come knocking.

I totally agree that there are chairmen out there who have rolls of cash with no intention of spending money, however I also know that there are chairmen out there who's hunger and desire not to mention the all important EGO that made them successful in business wants to be played on on a bigger stage, and none are bigger than the premier league. The reason Lerner bought Villa was to compete with the Glazers, some of these people have more money than they will ever need and are generally bored, but the satisfaction that they can gain from turning a club having to operate shrewdly into a major player must be enormous.

I agree, on the pitch things are looking good, it's the ominous feeling generated by those at a higher level that causes us fans to question every piece of information that we are fed. The proof is in the pudding, we seem to be getting decent gates, the fan base is there, we achieve solid league placings, FA cup finals, excellent transfer turnovers, a great manager - yet...................

On a refreshing note it's nice to hear the the red s&^*te will have to suffice with a 20m transfer budget p.a for the next 5 years. Hopefully Man City, Spurs and Arsenal can keep them out of the top 4 and mess up their budget further (30m per year based on champions league) B)
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#56 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 25 Sep 2009 - 00:00

Captain - Being picky again, 89/90 we finished 6th a feat only once equalled mid 90's and not bettered until DM's reign, so he is right in many ways ;)


Still many legends in that 1989/90 teams, but far enough.
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