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#1 Zed

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Posted 02 Oct 2009 - 17:16

An article in the BBC about Bill Kenwright

http://news.bbc.co.u...ton/8287705.stm
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#2 MikeO

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Posted 02 Oct 2009 - 17:48

Hehe....gonna ruffle a few feathers...love it :lol: !

Not all fans are wholeheartedly behind him...

...He may not satisfy all of the Everton fans, but most recognise that he's one of them.


Must nip over to Kipper and see what they think about it :jerry: .
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#3 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 02 Oct 2009 - 21:36

Once again a very good article and a good read. Someone who looks at the situation with their eyes open instead of the usual blinkered Bill bashing approach (cue usual TT suspect(s)...)

There have been prospective buyers but so far he hasn't been convinced that they are the right kind of people to protect Everton's heritage and future.

:smile_anim: :thumbsup_anim:

Edited by Everton_Worshiper, 02 Oct 2009 - 21:37.

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#4 marcopaulo

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Posted 02 Oct 2009 - 21:46

agree with EW....im just waitin for a few of the TT boys that aren't behind him to come home half cut and spot this :lol:
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#5 Romey 1878

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 07:16

"Kenwright is always willing to have a dialogue." - Is he? "I'm bored of your question. I'm not going to answer your question" really does suggest otherwise.

Interesting timing after the article that was published yesterday.

Edited by Romey 1878, 03 Oct 2009 - 07:18.

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#6 MikeO

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 07:43

I'm sure he regrets that answer, but frankly, if you believe (as I do) that he's an honourable man doing the best he can for the football club, it was understandable. It was a loaded question, coming from someone with their own agenda who plainly believed (as do many) that he's not an honourable man doing his best for the football club.

“Looking at the record turnover…most of it from TV rights…the core business, the commercial side, stayed the same, slightly backwards; you say we’re punching above our weight how long can we go on without investment…I hear every week…I read the paper and there’s club’s being bought…if you’re looking 24/7 why haven’t we found someone……… Is one of the reasons no on has come in for Everton is that the board are asking for too much money?

“Some clubs have consortiums bidding for these clubs… Peter Trembling former commercial director, recently left the club, we’ll never find out why, within three or four months of leaving he found investors…middle east based…to buy Notts County………if Everton are for sale how much are you asking for the club?


He knows what people say and what people think of him on Kipper, NSNO and (mostly to a more moderate extent) on here.
If I was him I'd be bored to hell with people constantly accusing me of lying and planning to line my own pockets....I think he mostly stays remarkably calm and tolerant considering the circumstances and the mindless bile he has to put up with.

Let's sell to the first Arab that comes along eh...like Portsmouth maybe? We too could become a complete laughing stock.
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#7 Romey 1878

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 09:09

There are valid arguments for both sides Mike. I understand the BK supporters, even if I don't agree with them, and I also understand the people who want BK gone because he's taken us as far as he can (because I'm one of them). I also think the questions put to BK about selling the club were very relevent and his response was a joke - looking for investment 24/7 and he comes up with nothing when other clubs are being bought 2 or 3 times? There's something wrong there Mike.

Again, there are arguments for both sides in terms of buying the club. You have the joke takeovers like Portsmouth and Newcastle, which go to crap, and then you have clubs like Villa, City, Chelsea etc to say it's a good thing.

Edited by Romey 1878, 03 Oct 2009 - 09:11.

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#8 MikeO

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 09:30

There are valid arguments for both sides Mike. I understand the BK supporters, even if I don't agree with them, and I also understand the people who want BK gone because he's taken us as far as he can (because I'm one of them).

I don't think those two groups are mutually exclusive....I'm pretty much a member of both of them :) .
Not that I particularly want him gone....if he had another couple of zero's on his bank balance I'd be happy for him to stay but he has taken us to a level that we can't make a step up from without serious money. He knows that better than anyone.
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#9 Adpom

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 09:51

What i don't get is this. These forign owners come in to a club an spend a fortune on players but leave the club with massive debts. Like Chelsea an Man U, both in massive debt, yet there owners are billionaires. How does that work?

This makes me think, do i want this for Everton. Do i want a billionaire to come up, buy shed loads of players but put us in massive debt, expecially if we can't get in the top 4, There no guantee that we will get 4th, its more likely but still not 100%.

I think right now we have the best squad we've had in 20 years. We are just short on numbers. if a billionaire came in, how much would our team change? i don't think it would change an awful lot, we'd just have more squad players. An more debt.
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#10 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 11:18

There are valid arguments for both sides Mike. I understand the BK supporters, even if I don't agree with them, and I also understand the people who want BK gone because he's taken us as far as he can (because I'm one of them). I also think the questions put to BK about selling the club were very relevent and his response was a joke - looking for investment 24/7 and he comes up with nothing when other clubs are being bought 2 or 3 times? There's something wrong there Mike.


Agreed. Wasn't going to bother replying with some of the zealots bleating, but as some mature posts went up I'm inclined to agree. Whether I like him or not (which I don't), he is and always will be a Blue. But what I will never forgive is the lies, spin and blatant hanging on to power, despite some power puff articles to the contrary.

What i don't get is this. These forign owners come in to a club an spend a fortune on players but leave the club with massive debts. Like Chelsea an Man U, both in massive debt, yet there owners are billionaires. How does that work?

This makes me think, do i want this for Everton. Do i want a billionaire to come up, buy shed loads of players but put us in massive debt, expecially if we can't get in the top 4, There no guantee that we will get 4th, its more likely but still not 100%.

I think right now we have the best squad we've had in 20 years. We are just short on numbers. if a billionaire came in, how much would our team change? i don't think it would change an awful lot, we'd just have more squad players. An more debt.


Interesting question which nobody can answer until Billy actually allows an invest to come near the place. Part of the problem is that Billy doesn't want to sell in a economic time where rich investors are few and far between, while Billy also expects a party to invest and have no say on the club. It's a ridiculous situation, which several former board members resigned over. Granted though if the RIGHT investor comes and wants it all, Billy MUST sell, but will he?

I think even the zealots know the answer to that!
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#11 MikeO

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 11:48

Part of the problem is that Billy doesn't want to sell in a economic time where rich investors are few and far between, while Billy also expects a party to invest and have no say on the club. It's a ridiculous situation, which several former board members resigned over. Granted though if the RIGHT investor comes and wants it all, Billy MUST sell, but will he?

I think even the zealots know the answer to that!

The (ongoing) problem I have with you CF is that again you present your opinion as fact. There's no room for debate in your world (which incidentally clearly makes you the zealot rather than the rest of us who are open to discussion whichever side we may be on).
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#12 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 14:38

The (ongoing) problem I have with you CF is that again you present your opinion as fact. There's no room for debate in your world (which incidentally clearly makes you the zealot rather than the rest of us who are open to discussion whichever side we may be on).


Aren't YOU guilty of the same thing which you acclaim to me? Seems hypocrisy is the order of the day again for you lad, as you're not even presenting a logical/decent argument against what I have put forth, just trying to shoot me down because it's me. Not sporting, is it lad?
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#13 Adpom

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 16:07

Agreed. Wasn't going to bother replying with some of the zealots bleating, but as some mature posts went up I'm inclined to agree. Whether I like him or not (which I don't), he is and always will be a Blue. But what I will never forgive is the lies, spin and blatant hanging on to power, despite some power puff articles to the contrary.



Interesting question which nobody can answer until Billy actually allows an invest to come near the place(YOUR OPINION NOT FACT). Part of the problem is that Billy doesn't want to sell in a economic time where rich investors are few and far between(OPINION NOT FACT), while Billy also expects a party to invest and have no say on the club(OPINION NOT FACT). It's a ridiculous situation, which several former board members resigned over. Granted though if the RIGHT investor comes and wants it all, Billy MUST sell, but will he?

I think even the zealots know the answer to that!


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#14 MikeO

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Posted 03 Oct 2009 - 18:56

Aren't YOU guilty of the same thing which you acclaim to me? Seems hypocrisy is the order of the day again for you lad, as you're not even presenting a logical/decent argument against what I have put forth, just trying to shoot me down because it's me. Not sporting, is it lad?

No....you, as always, completely fail to see my point.

I offer my opinion. I don't claim it to be fact.
You present your opinion as fact.

I'm not trying to shoot down your opinion, or anyones, just trying to make you understand the difference between opinion and fact.

And stop calling me lad....it's patronising in the extreme....but you know that already.
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#15 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 00:37

No....you, as always, completely fail to see my point.

I offer my opinion. I don't claim it to be fact.
You present your opinion as fact.

I'm not trying to shoot down your opinion, or anyones, just trying to make you understand the difference between opinion and fact.

And stop calling me lad....it's patronising in the extreme....but you know that already.


Ok......... Mike, I'll stop calling you lad. What is patronising is your claim that my opinion is fact from thin air, sorry but my opinion is based on fact. What is further insulting is saying that I do not know the difference between the two, so I think you should reflect and get over the obvious chips you have against me, or is that too opinionated?. Anyway, can you construct a reason why you disagree with my opinion?
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#16 CaptainFerguson10

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 00:51

http://www.toffeeweb...missionID=13342
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#17 MikeO

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 07:07

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/09-10/comment/editorial/article.asp?submissionID=13342

Interesting diverse opinions on there...many that support your view. Some don't. Everyone's opinion is based on fact...that doesn't make them the same thing. You (everyone) look at the facts and form your own opinion...that doesn't make your opinion (or mine) fact.

"...it does take a brave Chairman to select a Championship side manager, to see the potential in Moyes and then back him through thick and thin — a consistent chairman is something that not many of the clubs have had and envy this stability at Everton.

As Mike Dillon has said above please don’t also believe the proganda of underhanded dealings and money making claims to be 100% either. Kirkby etc is not palatable to any of us, nor is an investor that blows up after a while and ruins what we have.

All the in the know conjecture is just that — simply conjecture. What I do not want to see is Everton fans turning into Barcodes, Kopites etc and spending all of our time playing hate games with individuals that are serving our club — it was not how I was brought up as an Evertonian and does not make for good balanced reading.

All opinions are valid and worth listening to but it does get tiresome when people make extreme comments and point to non-proven facts. Who to believe? I look at the progress on the field."


"...when we look at the realities of what has happened to our club under Kenwright, what do we see? One almighty failure to be sure — King’s Dock. Again, we can all speculate on the blame, but the reality is that we missed the opportunity under his watch of getting a world class stadium which could have transformed our fortunes — and we shouldn’t have missed it. Huge failure, no excuses.

Since then? I find it hard to reach any other judgement than mixed to positive. In essence, we have failed to break into the top four (or five), but have established a respected position just below, and not collapsed or fallen into disastrous ownership like so many clubs around us. Our financial position is poor but not perilous. That all represents to my mind a pretty decent achievement."


Off to reflect on my chips.
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#18 Blue 250

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 10:24

"...when we look at the realities of what has happened to our club under Kenwright, what do we see? One almighty failure to be sure — King’s Dock. Again, we can all speculate on the blame, but the reality is that we missed the opportunity under his watch of getting a world class stadium which could have transformed our fortunes — and we shouldn’t have missed it. Huge failure, no excuses.

Since then? I find it hard to reach any other judgement than mixed to positive. In essence, we have failed to break into the top four (or five), but have established a respected position just below, and not collapsed or fallen into disastrous ownership like so many clubs around us. Our financial position is poor but not perilous. That all represents to my mind a pretty decent achievement."
[/i]

Off to reflect on my chips.



Not quite sure who said the above words, but a couple of points.

World class stadiums don't always mean success.....Newcastle!

We've failed to break into the top 4 (or 5), he says!, we've finished 4th and 5th twice in the last few seasons, with a small squad!....so that's a fail is it :blink:

With Bill were probably only going to be able to judge what he did for this club, good or bad about 5 years after he's gone.
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#19 hafnia

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 14:03

Since when in any sport or business is being the 5th best satisfactory or an opportunity to rejoice? It can be used as a measure to check progress, but when you are quite clearly behind the other 4 in terms of funding and quality and talent pipeline, you know that is all you are going to get unless your business model has a complete overhaul. I for one can not see myself being content with watching us struggle to match the pinnacle of the premiership elite, in Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and the new pretenders in Man City and Spurs. It will never be through lack of passion, it wil ultimately be down to having the owners having the same financial ambition and investment as fans like us.

Unfortunately for Bill, his one main tick point on his CV is David Moyes - he can not expect to remain in control of this club based on that. Any one of us could hold court with a journo and get bleary eyed talking about heroes of the past, but whilst he ain't got the cash to fund this club the way it needs, the heroes of the present and future will not remain at this club.
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#20 Blue 250

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 14:51

Since when in any sport or business is being the 5th best satisfactory or an opportunity to rejoice? It can be used as a measure to check progress, but when you are quite clearly behind the other 4 in terms of funding and quality and talent pipeline, you know that is all you are going to get unless your business model has a complete overhaul. I for one can not see myself being content with watching us struggle to match the pinnacle of the premiership elite, in Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool and the new pretenders in Man City and Spurs. It will never be through lack of passion, it wil ultimately be down to having the owners having the same financial ambition and investment as fans like us.

Unfortunately for Bill, his one main tick point on his CV is David Moyes - he can not expect to remain in control of this club based on that. Any one of us could hold court with a journo and get bleary eyed talking about heroes of the past, but whilst he ain't got the cash to fund this club the way it needs, the heroes of the present and future will not remain at this club.


No one said 4th or 5th was where we wanted to be!The person being quoted said we had failed to break into the top 4 or even 5! my point was that we had indeed broken into the top 5, THE LAST TWO SEASONS!...and with again a small squad and no moey even into the top 4 a few seasons back.....so he is wrong, we haven't failed, we DID break into the top 5 and even 4, with a small squad and not much money!!

Oh and his CV should not only have just the one tick, for recruiting Moyes, how about one for standing by him, even when fans wanted him gone....and how about a tick for possibly NOT selling us to the WRONG buyer, when many Evertonians can only see the £ signs.
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#21 hafnia

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 20:22

No one said 4th or 5th was where we wanted to be!The person being quoted said we had failed to break into the top 4 or even 5! my point was that we had indeed broken into the top 5, THE LAST TWO SEASONS!...and with again a small squad and no moey even into the top 4 a few seasons back.....so he is wrong, we haven't failed, we DID break into the top 5 and even 4, with a small squad and not much money!!

Oh and his CV should not only have just the one tick, for recruiting Moyes, how about one for standing by him, even when fans wanted him gone....and how about a tick for possibly NOT selling us to the WRONG buyer, when many Evertonians can only see the £ signs.



I should start a thread "If chairmen were footballers, would you sign Kenwright?" - it would be chulish to do so, so I won't. However the point remainsa that we all feel like we are in debt to a man who has sacrificed zilch in all honesty (cos he ain't got it to sacrifice), who will profit from a period where the club has improved, but not at the level that the operating staff given the right funding could have.

FACT: Lerner tried to buy Everton.
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#22 Blue 250

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 20:36

I should start a thread "If chairmen were footballers, would you sign Kenwright?" - it would be chulish to do so, so I won't. However the point remainsa that we all feel like we are in debt to a man who has sacrificed zilch in all honesty (cos he ain't got it to sacrifice), who will profit from a period where the club has improved, but not at the level that the operating staff given the right funding could have.

FACT: Lerner tried to buy Everton.


Since Lerner bought Aston Villa have they ever finished higher than Everton? Can't be sure but I don't think they have, and I'm pretty sure that if we can get our walking wounded back we will finish higher than them again this season.....surely you wouldn't be satisfied or rejoice in that fact if you were a Villa fan bought by the wonderful Mr Lerner.....oh! and THEY HAVEN'T, broken into the the top 5 since he bought them, or have they?
Maybe Kenwright did Everton a favor not selling to him after all, as his money hasn't been enough to get his team above poor old Everton :)
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#23 hafnia

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Posted 04 Oct 2009 - 23:49

Since Lerner bought Aston Villa have they ever finished higher than Everton? Can't be sure but I don't think they have, and I'm pretty sure that if we can get our walking wounded back we will finish higher than them again this season.....surely you wouldn't be satisfied or rejoice in that fact if you were a Villa fan bought by the wonderful Mr Lerner.....oh! and THEY HAVEN'T, broken into the the top 5 since he bought them, or have they?
Maybe Kenwright did Everton a favor not selling to him after all, as his money hasn't been enough to get his team above poor old Everton :)




Ooops, forgot that Kenwright was the brains behind getting the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Pienaar, Neville, Howard, Saha, Lescott individually for less than £5m per man apiece. Can't even be bothered working out the average transfer fee per man on that lot (actually I did £2.78m per man) that was Moyes, not Bill.

Yeaaahh, let's stay with Bill, while Martin O'neil is allowed the opportunity to make his blueprint for the future and knock back £18m bids for an average left sided midfielder and continue building with the likes of Delph (who we missed out on) whilst we sell to buy. Any joy that we have had is down to Moyes, not the man who got Moyes in. Our top 5 status is rapidly diminishing.

Giving Kenwright credit for our recent near achievments is a joke. Just think what Moyes could do with real financial muscle.
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#24 MikeO

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Posted 05 Oct 2009 - 07:28

FACT: Lerner tried to buy Everton.

Is it a fact? Not saying it isn't but I'd not heard it described as such before. This is all I can find having had a quick look around (from the London Standard July 2006)...

"It is also understood American tycoon Randy Lerner, former boss of credit card giant MBNA, is also considering a takeover approach for the Merseyside club, having previously stalked Aston Villa."

Again I hate to be picky but (you may have noticed) that speculation being presented as truth annoys me a bit :) . Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to keep it real :) .
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#25 Blue 250

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Posted 06 Oct 2009 - 22:19

Ooops, forgot that Kenwright was the brains behind getting the likes of Arteta, Cahill, Pienaar, Neville, Howard, Saha, Lescott individually for less than £5m per man apiece. Can't even be bothered working out the average transfer fee per man on that lot (actually I did £2.78m per man) that was Moyes, not Bill.

Yeaaahh, let's stay with Bill, while Martin O'neil is allowed the opportunity to make his blueprint for the future and knock back £18m bids for an average left sided midfielder and continue building with the likes of Delph (who we missed out on) whilst we sell to buy. Any joy that we have had is down to Moyes, not the man who got Moyes in. Our top 5 status is rapidly diminishing.

Giving Kenwright credit for our recent near achievments is a joke. Just think what Moyes could do with real financial muscle.


Aston Villa and Martin O'Neil aren't going to break into the top 4 or probably top 5 this season or even next.They've trailed behind us for the time Randy (and his money) have been at the club, and injuries permiting, could well do so for the next couple of seasons.
You'll be shouting the loudest only three years into a new chairmans reign, that we haven't progressed, let alone five that Lerner will have had....so Mr Lerner wouldn't have been the man for you then!......OH, yes he must be ok, because your slagging Kenwright for not selling to him!

Kenwright + Moyes = more success in the last few seasons than Lerner + O'Neil FACT!!!
As you seem to like FACTS!

And Mikeo!...........I've checked, and it IS a FACT :)
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#26 hafnia

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Posted 07 Oct 2009 - 00:56

Aston Villa and Martin O'Neil aren't going to break into the top 4 or probably top 5 this season or even next.They've trailed behind us for the time Randy (and his money) have been at the club, and injuries permiting, could well do so for the next couple of seasons.
You'll be shouting the loudest only three years into a new chairmans reign, that we haven't progressed, let alone five that Lerner will have had....so Mr Lerner wouldn't have been the man for you then!......OH, yes he must be ok, because your slagging Kenwright for not selling to him!

Kenwright + Moyes = more success in the last few seasons than Lerner + O'Neil FACT!!!
As you seem to like FACTS!

And Mikeo!...........I've checked, and it IS a FACT :)


Ah right, I see, Kenwright and Moyes come as a set? So in order to keep Moyes as manager we need to have Kenwright. Wasn't aware of that clause. That's a bit like the old George Michael and Andrew Ridgley partnership, one with obvious talent and one in the limelight for no apparent reason.

I was kind of hoping without that then maybe we could keep Moyes and have someone like Lerner backing him (who has put about £85 net transfer funding behind MON)

Not that he doesn't sound like he knows he hasn't got the financial backing he needs when asked:

Q: "Ultimately you spent less than £5m net, bringing in Fellaini and selling Andy Johnson. How much would it have taken to ‘have a real go’?"

A: We’ve had 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th-place finishes in my six seasons and got close to being able to establish ourselves alongside the Big Four. I think £30m-£40m would have given us a realistic chance. But a lot of clubs are spending now, Man City, Villa, Tottenham, Newcastle . . . so we might have needed £30m just to stay fifth. And it could take four years of spending £30m to bridge that gap with the Big Four.


source: http://www.timesonli...icle5299415.ece
(in fact read the Answer to the question: How much longer can you have the energy to keep pushing Everton forward while the club is scrimping and saving?

Would you still like to see a manager like Moyes partnered with a chairman unable to fund him in the way that Lerner has supported MON (who has made some questionable signings admittedly). When in the words from the man himself supports what I have always thought "That if we were given that extra injection of money when we were challenging top 4, we could have made that breakthrough to the level where our revenue would possibly increase by a further £20m a season with champs league"

Edited by hafnia, 07 Oct 2009 - 01:07.

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#27 carlmc25

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Posted 08 Oct 2009 - 19:51

Ah right, I see, Kenwright and Moyes come as a set? So in order to keep Moyes as manager we need to have Kenwright. Wasn't aware of that clause. That's a bit like the old George Michael and Andrew Ridgley partnership, one with obvious talent and one in the limelight for no apparent reason.

I was kind of hoping without that then maybe we could keep Moyes and have someone like Lerner backing him (who has put about £85 net transfer funding behind MON)

Not that he doesn't sound like he knows he hasn't got the financial backing he needs when asked:

Q: "Ultimately you spent less than £5m net, bringing in Fellaini and selling Andy Johnson. How much would it have taken to ‘have a real go’?"

A: We’ve had 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th-place finishes in my six seasons and got close to being able to establish ourselves alongside the Big Four. I think £30m-£40m would have given us a realistic chance. But a lot of clubs are spending now, Man City, Villa, Tottenham, Newcastle . . . so we might have needed £30m just to stay fifth. And it could take four years of spending £30m to bridge that gap with the Big Four.


source: http://www.timesonli...icle5299415.ece
(in fact read the Answer to the question: How much longer can you have the energy to keep pushing Everton forward while the club is scrimping and saving?

Would you still like to see a manager like Moyes partnered with a chairman unable to fund him in the way that Lerner has supported MON (who has made some questionable signings admittedly). When in the words from the man himself supports what I have always thought "That if we were given that extra injection of money when we were challenging top 4, we could have made that breakthrough to the level where our revenue would possibly increase by a further £20m a season with champs league"

I'm still awaiting the proof that Lerner wanted to buy us? Actually I'm not really as there isn't any, only rumour and gossip.
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#28 StevO

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Posted 08 Oct 2009 - 23:01

Im not going to question the Learner tried to buy us thing, i at least believe the reports he enquired, and am a little confused why things never went further. But i do want to defend the guy. he has done a great job at Villa, he doesnt hog the press when things go well, he doesnt fire the manager when things go bad, he doesnt have villa in a dangerous financial position, and when the manager asks for funds for players - he gets it.
im not saying Bill does the bad things there (apart from the embarrassing interview) but Learner is pretty much the perfect owner from what i can see. he picked his manager and backs his judgement. i pray if we get a take over, its some one of the like of Randy Learner.
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#29 hafnia

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Posted 08 Oct 2009 - 23:10

I'm still awaiting the proof that Lerner wanted to buy us? Actually I'm not really as there isn't any, only rumour and gossip.


It's almost like telling your brother who's turning 11 that Santa doesn't exist, you know it's cruel and is probably shattering their present delusioned joy, but in the long run it will save him from the big bully's at school.

FFS, how many times do you need to find your presents in the wardrobe to find out that you have been lied to???

Quiz question: name the clubs that have been bought whilst he has been actively looking for a buyer? We can assess each buyer after that......
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#30 MikeO

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Posted 08 Oct 2009 - 23:41

The point is that you're telling your eleven year old brother that Santa doesn't exist but, far from finding his presents, you keep failing to show him that they're in the wardrobe.

Keeping on shouting that they're there and that you know they're there (because the big bullies at school told you they were and you believe them) but declining time and again to take the lad and show him the evidence doesn't make it true :) .
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#31 Everton_Worshiper

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Posted 09 Oct 2009 - 07:49

The point is that you're telling your eleven year old brother that Santa doesn't exist but, far from finding his presents, you keep failing to show him that they're in the wardrobe.

Keeping on shouting that they're there and that you know they're there (because the big bullies at school told you they were and you believe them) but declining time and again to take the lad and show him the evidence doesn't make it true :) .


Touche!
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#32 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 09 Oct 2009 - 08:07

The point is that you're telling your eleven year old brother that Santa doesn't exist but, far from finding his presents, you keep failing to show him that they're in the wardrobe.

Keeping on shouting that they're there and that you know they're there (because the big bullies at school told you they were and you believe them) but declining time and again to take the lad and show him the evidence doesn't make it true :) .




Ha ha good answer couldnt have put it better myself!
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#33 Blue 250

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Posted 09 Oct 2009 - 16:21

It's almost like telling your brother who's turning 11 that Santa doesn't exist, you know it's cruel and is probably shattering their present delusioned joy, but in the long run it will save him from the big bully's at school.



Hafnia!........First you tell me Kenwrights not the man to run Everton!! Now you tell me there's no Santa :o There's a serious danger that your ruining my week :angry:

Randy Learner does seem a decent bloke, and as SteveO has said he's the type of bloke who we would like to take over when Bill decides to sell.But it has again to be pointed out, if we KEEP finishing higher than Villa, would there be any point handing over to him!
Villa have had one or two injury problems but not half as bad as ours!Our squad is probably smaller than theirs, but certainly better......for all of randys money.
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#34 hafnia

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 00:16

This is a top thread, and one i'm happy to reply to after a few pints, it's one that splits Evertonians right through. Last night I was at a sportsmans dinner with Dave Watson speaking, and he was tops, a great bloke, blue through and through. He started telling stories about times when he was captain in the dark times and I thought no way was it that bad - surely that wasn't Everton (Before wimbledon last day etc), and it's true, I do forget how bad we have been under the likes of Peter Johnson. What we have now feels so much better and enjoyable, and I do appreciate Kenwrights stewardship to that extent - but ultimately it's down to Moyes.

The fact is the playing field was much more level then, everyone got their andrex out when Ravanelli signed for Middlesborough FFS, nowadays we have Robinho, Torres, Drogba, Fabregas, and last but not least Arteta playing in the premier league - the top teams have the best of the best and that ultimately separates the top 4 from the rest (now top 6 IMO)- for us to be back where we belong we can not cling on to the hope that our next £15m signing isn't funded by selling part of what Moyes has built.

Moyes has finished scrubbing Kenwrights boots as a YTS, he is ready to claim his shirt - will it be at Everton? Depends on how much more Kenwright wants his boots cleaned, the man needs serious financial backing.
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#35 Zed

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 06:16

Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million??

Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes

Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost
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#36 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 07:22

This is a top thread, and one i'm happy to reply to after a few pints, it's one that splits Evertonians right through. Last night I was at a sportsmans dinner with Dave Watson speaking, and he was tops, a great bloke, blue through and through. He started telling stories about times when he was captain in the dark times and I thought no way was it that bad - surely that wasn't Everton (Before wimbledon last day etc), and it's true, I do forget how bad we have been under the likes of Peter Johnson. What we have now feels so much better and enjoyable, and I do appreciate Kenwrights stewardship to that extent - but ultimately it's down to Moyes.
The fact is the playing field was much more level then, everyone got their andrex out when Ravanelli signed for Middlesborough FFS, nowadays we have Robinho, Torres, Drogba, Fabregas, and last but not least Arteta playing in the premier league - the top teams have the best of the best and that ultimately separates the top 4 from the rest (now top 6 IMO)- for us to be back where we belong we can not cling on to the hope that our next £15m signing isn't funded by selling part of what Moyes has built.

Moyes has finished scrubbing Kenwrights boots as a YTS, he is ready to claim his shirt - will it be at Everton? Depends on how much more Kenwright wants his boots cleaned, the man needs serious financial backing.



What about when we finished 17th and people were calling for Moyse' head? Surely Kenwrights decision to stick with him is ultimately the reason for our success.
Could you see Newcastle or Spurs or City sticking by their manager in such circumstances?

Yes BK has taken us as far as we can go and we undoubtedly need a new investor if we are to kick on but people shouldnt be so quick to write off or belittle BKs contribution to where we are now. If he sold up tomorrow everybody would have to look back on his tenure and say it was a job well done because the club is unrecogniseable from the one he took over back in the Johnson era
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#37 hafnia

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 08:54

What about when we finished 17th and people were calling for Moyse' head? Surely Kenwrights decision to stick with him is ultimately the reason for our success.
Could you see Newcastle or Spurs or City sticking by their manager in such circumstances?

Yes BK has taken us as far as we can go and we undoubtedly need a new investor if we are to kick on but people shouldnt be so quick to write off or belittle BKs contribution to where we are now. If he sold up tomorrow everybody would have to look back on his tenure and say it was a job well done because the club is unrecogniseable from the one he took over back in the Johnson era


Absolutely agree, and that season when everton finished 17th Moyes was prone to making bad tactical errors to the point that Kenwright must have been getting a little frustrated. However I think Moyes professionalism and work ethic which is almost legendary would have made that tough for Bill, let alone we had no money and were about to sell our prize asset to stay afloat. For Bill to sack him would have been a bad move financially, who would come in to manage a club that was about to sell a star and replace with Marcus Bent? Let alone the compo pay off for Moyes.

Let's give Bill the credit he deserves, and that is getting Moyes into the club. Let's give Moyes the platform he deserves and that is money. Moyes had stated £30m would have enabled him to break the top 4 and the players to do that were earmarked...
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#38 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 09:35

Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million?? Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes

Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost




Lol if he did then he must he must have a very low self esteem because only a really shite manager could blow £100M and the side still be no better

I would imagine a manager that bad would look like a fat Bolton doorman and speak with a Spanish accent!
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#39 StevO

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 11:34

if we KEEP finishing higher than Villa, would there be any point handing over to him!


we do not finish above villa because of Bill, if is because of Moyes! if moyes had Learners money we'd finish higher than a few more teams i think

Didnt David Moyes say that he doubted he could do any better if he had 100 million??

Look at the mess portsmouth are in, look at Newcastle, Leeds. I dont know what the future holds for the likes of Man City and I suppose most supporters (rightly so) are riding the crest of a wave, but what happens when the numbers dont add up and the payback comes. Just like the credit crunch, you cant borrow on the back of tomorrows success if it never comes

Everyone wants to be in the big four, we're no different, but I dont want it at any cost


i see what your saying Zed, but everton have massive debts to service. even if we were just debt free it would increase our spending power a lot. a takeover just paying off the overdrafts and mortgages would leave us running financially safe and having lots more cash for players and/or stadium improvements.

Lol if he did then he must he must have a very low self esteem because only a really shite manager could blow £100M and the side still be no better

I would imagine a manager that bad would look like a fat Bolton doorman and speak with a Spanish accent!


im sure he knows he would improve the squad, he probably thinks thats the difference in quality between us and the top 4

Edited by StevO, 10 Oct 2009 - 11:44.

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#40 Romey 1878

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Posted 10 Oct 2009 - 13:28

http://www.evertonba...udget-forc.html

:lol:
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