thescore Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 interesting stadium post on WSAG Posted by Beechside on October 13, 2009, 7:38 amswampy first I've heard of this: summary of the link in case it doesn't work..... Expect an announcement by Peel Holdings (owners of Liverpool Waters scheme land) and the NWDA regarding Clarence Dock in the new year. The old Mersey Docks & Harbour Company who owned the land before Peel went to the extent of hiring stadium designers to see about it's feasibility. The CEO of MDHC said it was not only feasible, but also desirable saying that there needed to be a landmark building there that wasn't just more apartments, to kick start investment. Planning documents for Liverpool Waters in late December. It would be a multiple agency enablement including NWDA money. Peel would construct the stadium. Clarence Dock is the dock to the left of Princes Dock (which is left of the Liver Buildings). It's a brownfield site that is 30 acres larger than Kings Dock. Room for hotels, tower blocks and a supermarket. Peel are looking at what the Melbourne Docklands development, where a stadium was used as a driver to get investment down to the docks, which had been unused and fell into disrepair since the 1980's due to containerisation taking the trade away. The stadium at Melbourne attracts 2 million people a year and was a key driver to getting loads of companies to invest (Sony Erickson, Axa, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I just read that myself. It'd be unbelievable if it was true; I was absolutely gutted when the Kings Dock stadium fell through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 just need glossy pictures and i'll be needing new pants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 If any truth in it and we are offered/involved before Liverpool then that would get me harder than Nugent scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm sure I've mentioned this . LCC bent Peel's ear over it, Peel wanted a shared stadium for increased footfall but it's still viable with one team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 interesting stadium post on WSAG Posted by Beechside on October 13, 2009, 7:38 am swampy first I've heard of this: summary of the link in case it doesn't work..... Expect an announcement by Peel Holdings (owners of Liverpool Waters scheme land) and the NWDA regarding Clarence Dock in the new year. The old Mersey Docks & Harbour Company who owned the land before Peel went to the extent of hiring stadium designers to see about it's feasibility. The CEO of MDHC said it was not only feasible, but also desirable saying that there needed to be a landmark building there that wasn't just more apartments, to kick start investment. Planning documents for Liverpool Waters in late December. It would be a multiple agency enablement including NWDA money. Peel would construct the stadium. Clarence Dock is the dock to the left of Princes Dock (which is left of the Liver Buildings). It's a brownfield site that is 30 acres larger than Kings Dock. Room for hotels, tower blocks and a supermarket. Peel are looking at what the Melbourne Docklands development, where a stadium was used as a driver to get investment down to the docks, which had been unused and fell into disrepair since the 1980's due to containerisation taking the trade away. The stadium at Melbourne attracts 2 million people a year and was a key driver to getting loads of companies to invest (Sony Erickson, Axa, etc). What link???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 What link???? It was in the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 It was in the original post. Lol just read it again and i still cant find it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Lol just read it again and i still cant find it The original post from the site where The Score has copy and pasted it from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Anyone got a google maps of the site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm sure I've mentioned this . You have....it was also mentioned at the enquiry as one of KEIOC's favoured alternatives. Grarghsies.....look on multimap. It's not marked (even on ordnance survey) but it's between Princes and Trafalgar. Pretty sure that's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 That's a pretty amazing spot. Hell I could walk from the boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 If that came off, it would satisfy the dreams of all of us. A new ground, great location and we don't become sock robbers . Now that would really pissof our neighbours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Some old images from BRH Architects who had previously been fishing for the project (2004 I think): Drawings by http://www.brh-architects.co.uk/ A feasibility study was apparently commissioned by Mersey Docks & Harbour Company at some poin. More recently Liverpool City Council were keen and felt it was a goer but the club had opted to go for Kirkby. With Kirkby looking likely to be derailed, this could be many people's preferred destination. NWDA will more than likely pay for a Vauxhall railway Station As part of the Maritime Mercantile City site, it could be entitled to grants too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) I'd be more than happy with this as a potential site than most suggested. It's class, unique and pretty big! What would it take for EFC to get hold of the permission to build on it, obviously pending the Kirby situation and LCC reluctance to do anything blue!? Think about the naming of two possible stands (based on the artists impressions) Dock End - Sounds intimidating but interesting and, The Mersey Side (Stand)- Like what i did there? Edited October 14, 2009 by tenaciousj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 That's a pretty amazing spot. Hell I could walk from the boat Boat...you could swim in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 We had all this last year . http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=14568&view=&hl=clarence&fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescore Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 http://members.boardhost.com/peoplesforum/msg/1255435605.html hope the link works i am so crap at this. this was on the poeples forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Various people on Kipper reporting that Knowsley councillor Mal Sharp has said the decision will be announced tomorrow...or it may be one person has said it and others are repeating . No idea if there's any truth in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 What decision though? Without any form of planning permission surely there isn't much to announce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 What decision though? Without any form of planning permission surely there isn't much to announce? Sorry....unclear. The Kirkby decision is what I was talking about, just put it here because it was only a sniff of a rumour so I didn't want to start a new thread . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Fan commissioned renderings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 That's almost dreamworthy, let's see if Blue Bill struggles to get investors if we were able to get that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 A fan can get plans like that drawn up and the club come up with that shitty Kirkby design? Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 A fan can get plans like that drawn up and the club come up with that shitty Kirkby design? Jesus wept. To be honest the surrounding area looks ace and the stadium looks, well, like an oval stadium. Looks like the drawings were more focused on the whole development rather than the stadium. I think we would all love a dock side stadium providing the surrounding are is regenerated...just don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think we would all love a dock side stadium providing the surrounding are is regenerated...just don't see it happening. Have to agree here, this would be a dream for 99% of the fans and surely this would make us a more attractive proposition than moving to Kirkby, if Bill, as he always says has the fans interest at heart then surely he can see past his Tesco tinted goggles and explore the feasibility of a project like this, we all recall the buzz around the place when Kings Dock was beeing mooted and how different is the atmosphere now with Kirkby, it is sad to see so many Everton Fans at logger heads over what is best for the club. Surely a project like this would re unite all Evertonians. As the saying goes nothing ventured nothing gained, if Bill was able to pull this off then surely it would silence most critics amongst us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Have to agree here, this would be a dream for 99% of the fans and surely this would make us a more attractive proposition than moving to Kirkby, if Bill, as he always says has the fans interest at heart then surely he can see past his Tesco tinted goggles and explore the feasibility of a project like this, we all recall the buzz around the place when Kings Dock was beeing mooted and how different is the atmosphere now with Kirkby, it is sad to see so many Everton Fans at logger heads over what is best for the club. Surely a project like this would re unite all Evertonians. As the saying goes nothing ventured nothing gained, if Bill was able to pull this off then surely it would silence most critics amongst us.. i agree. if bill could get behind a project like this, im certain all would be forgiven. this may be a dream, and there are only a few people who can get this off the ground. if they get together and pull this off, it would be massively to the benefit of the club. something like this, if it had an original design and captured the atmosphere right, we could get more than 50,000 imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Stadium Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) This is all fantasy land. The renders were put together by student, using CAD, prompted by an Evertonian on a Skyscraper forum. A notion of their fantasy. This stadium is on the top of the newly built Canal Link. Duh!!! Also some tall block is on the flats at West Waterloo Dock. Duh! There is no room around the stadium. Some points to bring you down to earth: Peel have no plans in Liverpool Waters to build a stadium. None on their web site. None on the Liverpoolwiki: Liverpool Waters The Liverpool Waters web site shows no stadium. UNESCO (the UN) have approved the outline, for the World Heritage Site, and no stadium is mentioned. A stadium does not conform to the World Heritage status of the site. The City council know of no stadium in the plans. The council are to approve plans for Liverpool Waters in Dec' and no stadium is on them. In London they will not grant PP permission to stadia unless rapid-transit rail is adjacent to shift half the capacity in an hour: Emirates is an e.g. - 5 stations are around it. Wembley stadium, with reduced capacity had to rebuild Wembley Park station to shift more fans by rapid-transit rail. LFC cannot go over 60,000 (they want 75,000) on their stadium unless a new rapid-transit station is built on a newly opened Canada Dock branch line on Merseyrail metro. Extending Merseyrail metro This stadium is hemmed-in for the crowds it would attract. A safety problem. The stadium will be a nuisance to the residents who would buy the surround tall apartments. The stadium is a off-putting, as football fans have a poor reputation. The stadium would encourage litter in the docks waters - environmental damage. A large concrete lump used 25 days a year would kill the area dead - it is a World Heritage Site. The stadium is exposed to the cutting Liverpool Bay winds. The stadium is prone to corrosion exposed to wind lashed salt air. The council, has talked again of a stadium share by both clubs. Walton Hall Park is the ideal location with rapid-transit rail run in, that could shift 3/4 of the capacity in an hour. If not WHP, it will be Stanley Park. etc. etc. It is best to get out of fantasy land. This stadium notion on a World Heritage Site, is not firm or on paper of any sort. Walton Hall Park with a rapid transit station, shifting 30-40,000 per hour, on a newly opened, mothballed, Outer Loop line is the best option. It will not meet with great opposition, as any proposal to build on a World Heritage Site would. The UN would have a lot to say if plans were submitted. The World Heritage Site is to promote the city and retain its heritage and history. A concrete lump will not do that at all. Walton Hall Park Also this about extending Mrseyrail and the Outer Loop Line: http://tinyurl.com/Extend-Merseyrail-CLICK-HERE Edited October 21, 2009 by New Stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Stadium Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) The Kings Dock Arena was planned before The UN came in and assessed the World Heritage Site. It was requested to be given a bye as it was already scheduled for an arena. The UN let it go. They should not have. The Arena is an abomination. A glorified IKEA shed next to the largest collection of grade 1 listed buildings in the country - Albert Dock. What an embarrassment. Look at this: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/KingsDock.html The Clarence Dock area is important to the city's history and heritage - no one with any civic pride would want a concrete footy ground anywhere near it!!!! 1.5 million starving Irish went through the dock gates in the famine - it is historic. There are no discussions for a stadium at Clarence Dock/Liverpool Waters. Lack of Joined Up Thinking over Kings Dock - which should NOT be repeated at Clarence Dock The city could have had it all: A vibrant residential and leisure complex on the quays of the Kings & Queens Dock branches, Dukes Dock and Coburg Dock. An arena and associated hotels on the land side of Queens Dock's quays with an adjacent rapid-transit rail Merseyrail station. What the city ended up with was a fantastic waterscape turned into a lack-lustre landscape with an arena looking like an IKEA shed with associated concrete multi-storey car park and hotels. A vibrant residential and leisure waterscape is lost. It is abundantly clear the current Kings Dock arena project should have been built on the Baltic Triangle or the land side of the Queens Dock's quays only yards away across the Wapping Dock with an adjacent historic rapid-transit rail station served by a tunnel, built by Stephenson. The existing Kings, Dukes and Queens Branch Dock could have been excavated back to their original quays and a wonderful water based Amsterdam style of environment created. The Kings and Queens Docks were the only docks that had branch dock piers projecting from the river wall into the expanse of Wapping Dock. These piers formed the quays with sheds being built upon and made up the branch docks. If top class buildings were built upon these piers with panoramic view restaurants on the pier ends, a dramatic sight would have been created from the Dock Road on the land side across the Queens and Wapping Dock waters with the Anglican cathedral behind. All this potential was squandered by lack of vision and bowing to short term money making objectives. Ideal Location For Kings Dock Arena Below: The tower is the proposed Queens Dock Tower. The picture is Queens Dock with Kings Dock to the right. On the land side of Queens Dock on the waters edge, where the tower is proposed, would have been an ideal location for the arena with a water facing aspect. The area within the red lines. The Queens Tower could have been located on one of the branch docks giving a superior location with superior views. The marked area is full of ramshakle industrial buildings awaiting clearance. Top right of the picture is where the arena was built. Where land tapers into the water is where the branch docks were filled in. Note that to the right of the Customs House built over the graving docks, one of the branch docks has been filled in to create a car park. The disused Wapping rail tunnel emerges to the bottom right just off picture, which is easily brought back into service serving the complex and surrounding districts. Large footy grounds should be where there is lots of land around them for safety with an integrated rapid-transit rail station shifting at least half the capacity per hour. As is the case in London, with the Emirate and Wembley, where the station was rebuilt to shift more fans. Liverpool has such suitable sites, Walton Hall Park being one. The heritage and history of Liverpool is more important than a misplaced footy ground and arena. Edited October 21, 2009 by New Stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 i still like the idea of copying the plans for Barca's new stadium, that jutts out into the sea. I was thinkin we could to the same with the Mersey, and use a tidal powerplant as the foundations/co-project, but then i was dreaming too. http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/images-barcelona-fc-stadium-at-sea-plans/5205577.article# for those who havent seen it yet. http://www.crosbyherald.co.uk/news/crosby-news/2009/09/24/mersey-tidal-power-scheme-could-power-the-region-s-homes-68459-24765449/ for my idea of support.... the proposed plans above look fantastic too, but just as unrealistic. I hope im proven wrong, one way or the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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