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Has Moyes Taken Us As Far As He Can?


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#1 milky71

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 16:29

imo he has
he has always had problems tactically,his use of subs is awful and his transfer dealings are slightly suspect.
I think he has done a very good job for us and will continue to do a good job but i want someone who can do a great job and bring us a trophy.
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#2 Romey 1878

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 16:38

His transfer dealings are mostly sound, the other two I agree with. He probably has taken us far as he can, but without serious investment then it's the same story for any one else as well. If we got that investment then Moyes would deserve the chance to show whether he's taken us far as he can or not.
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#3 carlmc25

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 16:42

we're all fed up with last night's crapfest but let's be fair, he's been absolutely brilliant for us. Our cup form is NOT good enough, Moyes seriously needs to address this but in the league, I very much doubt there is another manager out there who could have achieved what Moyes has at Everton. He has worked miracles in the league, he has done brilliantly in the transfer market and he is building an excellent team, that when fit, can play fantastic football. We had a shocker last night and substitution wise he is suspect but let's not get carried away, if we replaced Moyes with anyone else I'd be seriously concerned about our future.
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#4 MatthewT

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 16:53

i thought his substitution choices were pretty sound against Man Utd, and when we knocked Liverpool out of the FA cup last year!Speaking of which, we can't really lambast Moyes for being quetionable in the cup when we got to the FA cup final last year, and the Carling Cup semi the year previously. Last nights performance was a shocker, and lets hope it was a one off, but saying moyes as taken us as far as he can is ridiculous. Where would be in the league had we have had a full squad available to us at the start of the season?!
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#5 carlmc25

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 16:58

i thought his substitution choices were pretty sound against Man Utd, and when we knocked Liverpool out of the FA cup last year!Speaking of which, we can't really lambast Moyes for being quetionable in the cup when we got to the FA cup final last year, and the Carling Cup semi the year previously. Last nights performance was a shocker, and lets hope it was a one off, but saying moyes as taken us as far as he can is ridiculous. Where would be in the league had we have had a full squad available to us at the start of the season?!

I hardly think one semi and one final in 8 years or whatever it is, is any great shakes. Did we beat anyone decent to reach the semi? Last year we beat the Man Utd youth team on penalties, and true we beat Liverpool. Apart from that, our cup form under Moyes has been pretty disastrous considering the players we have.
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#6 milky71

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 17:20

lets be straight.
Im not saying moyes is bad but after 8 years he still seems to make the same mistakes,especially away in europe.
the romainian gypsies and fiorentina can be added to our pitiful showing last night and when you arsenal birmingham in the cup burnley away hull away to the list this season has been awful injuries or not
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#7 Ian C

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 19:12

You always seem to pop up at the most predictable times.
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#8 Bailey

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 19:26

I think the performance against Man U and Chelsea prove Moyes hasnt taken us as far as he can. The problem is that he doesnt seem to have a plan B. When things arent going according to plan he makes some really suspicious calls and most of them are way too late to have any real effect. Gradually his substitutions have improved as now they are more attacking but he really needs to make more definitive calls. Do you think a manager like Mourinho/Ferguson would have left Billy on for that long? I seriously doubt it.

Having said that I feel a part of the problem yesterday was the players. You could see him yelling at player to push up and get into their faces more but no-one stood up and took responsibility. Yes Moyes started too defensively and deep(like he has in all Euro games IMO) and he should have made sure someone stayed up top with Saha (oh and Osman man marking Moutinho everywhere). They were his fault. However the shocking defending, the inability to follow his shouts and the nature in which some of the players in this game was not his fault. No-one lead the team on the pitch (except maybe Jags when he came on) and it doesnt matter how good you are as a manager if your biggest players dont stand up and be counted in crunch games.
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#9 Blue 250

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 20:22

Moyes can still do better, and do better with us.The draw at Arsenal, the Chelsea and Man Utd game are fairly good pointers.Last night was terrible, but to be fair Donovan and Bily didn't turn up Arteta was only just about there.....that's three players in the midfield who weren't up to a team intent on winning, our defence was weakened and midfield just them them straight through......Moyes fault, only partially....has he taken us as far as he can.....no!
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#10 thescore

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 20:33

David Moyes is one of the best managers in the EPL. I think some fans think this is the matrix David Moyes becomes manager of Everton lets load him up with every tactic that's going. He's only 47 for god sake give the man a chance he is still inexperienced when you compare him with sir Alex or Arsene Wenger and how old are they.
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#11 milky71

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 20:35

David Moyes is one of the best managers in the EPL. I think some fans think this is the matrix David Moyes becomes manager of Everton lets load him up with every tactic that's going. He's only 47 for god sake give the man a chance he is still inexperienced when you compare him with sir Alex or Arsene Wenger and how old are they.

he shouldn't be inexperienced after 8 years in management.
for me he makes the same mistakes over and over again
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#12 milky71

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 20:37

You always seem to pop up at the most predictable times.

i'm glad someone notices.
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#13 thescore

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 20:44

ok who would you bring in
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#14 Wall Writer

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 21:33

Don't really think it's worth adding to this thread but I feel I've got to give my two-penneth.

This sums it up for me:

ok who would you bring in


Mark Hughes? Sven Goran Erikson? Avram Grant might be out of a job by the end of the season? I don't think Tony Adams has found a new job yet? Then there's Paul Ince who I'm sure would like another crack at the premiership. But wait none of these are better than Moyes, so lets create a list of Managers who are better than Moyes, well ok there are quite a few - Mourinho, Guardiola, Hiddink - Hmm, realistic!? not sure. Ok, so we need to narrow down the criteria: Managers who are better than Moyes, who we can afford to pay, and who can operate on tight transfer budgets. Honestly, I don't know who you would put on that list.

I can agree somewhat, that Moyes may have taken us as far as he can, but there's two things that you need to keep in mind - First, the glass ceiling outside the top four, which over the passed few seasons we've reached, and tapped on, and even fractured a little, something no other team, yet this century has managed to do. Secondly, the fact that we don't really have any money, and unless anyone wants us to end up like Pompy (on the brink of oblivion), I seriously hope we stay wisely within our means.

Moyes is by no means the best manager in the league, but we'll be hard pressed to find someone who can match him. To return to the question, "Has Moyes taken us as far as he can?" - in my opinion, maybe, at this moment in time. Who is it then that can take us further, well the answer to that is, as we all know, not 'who' but'what' - Investment.
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#15 thescore

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 21:40

Don't really think it's worth adding to this thread but I feel I've got to give my two-penneth.

This sums it up for me:



Mark Hughes? Sven Goran Erikson? Avram Grant might be out of a job by the end of the season? I don't think Tony Adams has found a new job yet? Then there's Paul Ince who I'm sure would like another crack at the premiership. But wait none of these are better than Moyes, so lets create a list of Managers who are better than Moyes, well ok there are quite a few - Mourinho, Guardiola, Hiddink - Hmm, realistic!? not sure. Ok, so we need to narrow down the criteria: Managers who are better than Moyes, who we can afford to pay, and who can operate on tight transfer budgets. Honestly, I don't know who you would put on that list.

I can agree somewhat, that Moyes may have taken us as far as he can, but there's two things that you need to keep in mind - First, the glass ceiling outside the top four, which over the passed few seasons we've reached, and tapped on, and even fractured a little, something no other team, yet this century has managed to do. Secondly, the fact that we don't really have any money, and unless anyone wants us to end up like Pompy (on the brink of oblivion), I seriously hope we stay wisely within our means.

Moyes is by no means the best manager in the league, but we'll be hard pressed to find someone who can match him. To return to the question, "Has Moyes taken us as far as he can?" - in my opinion, maybe, at this moment in time. Who is it then that can take us further, well the answer to that is, as we all know, not 'who' but'what' - Investment.


agree on all points.
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#16 holystove

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 22:56

The only manager I'd rather have is Wenger. Other than him, Moyes is number one. Most teams would kill to have Moyes run their team.
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#17 Parapluie

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 23:29

I cant believe you guys are going against moyes. He has broken the top four, got us from relegation favorites to european regulars, and has done all this with limited fund. He has been fantastic in the league but the only thing that he needs to work on is cup competitions. Yesterday he was the greatest manager and everyone was chanting his name but now some of you think he should be sacked. Disgraceful.
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#18 Kohen

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 23:40

Disgraceful.


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#19 MikeO

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Posted 26 Feb 2010 - 23:49

Yesterday he was the greatest manager and everyone was chanting his name but now some of you think he should be sacked. Disgraceful.

Some? One I think you'll find. And milky's always been a bit eccentric in his views (to put it politely).
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#20 Rubecula

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 01:55

Moyes has not taken us as far as he can. He has taken us as far as ANYONE can. At least at the moment.

That said, his tactics in Europe may need looking at. The display against Lisbon was poor, very poor. We all know we are better than that.

Bily was pretty poor in the game and perhaps should not have been in the starting lineup. But who else could have been in from the kick off?

We do seem to have a lot of problems, but unfortunately not a lot of answers.

Realistically we need more and better players, and to get them we need more money.

Even with that in mind we must look at the financial situation of other clubs. Most of them are in debt to a greater or lesser extent than ourselves, and yet we are still doing ok.

I still can't see any reason to get rid of Moyes, but perhaps we could bring someone in to help in some way, especially in planning the European games.

Not sure it is too feasible to do this, but we need to try something.
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#21 Wall Writer

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 09:31

I still can't see any reason to get rid of Moyes, but perhaps we could bring someone in to help in some way, especially in planning the European games.

Not sure it is too feasible to do this, but we need to try something.


That doesn't sound like a bad idea in theory, not sure how or if it would work, but bringing in someone with a bit of European experience as I kind of 'consultant' could work, (as I say in theory).
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#22 Tricky Trev

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 09:59

That doesn't sound like a bad idea in theory, not sure how or if it would work, but bringing in someone with a bit of European experience as I kind of 'consultant' could work, (as I say in theory).

Whether its europe or not football is football. Eleven aside its a simple game. Thursday was horrible and yes its frustrating that were not going further in competitons but we should all be thankful Davey is in charge of us. Christ knows where we would be without him.
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#23 Rob W

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 10:41

I cant beleive some ppl are questioning Moyes, hes the best thing to happen to us in the last 20 years. The number of times Ive been told by other team supporters that they think he is a brilliant manager and we are lucky to have him, as has been said, whats the alternative!?
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#24 Philinsuffolk

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 10:51

Moyes has done a fantastic job for us. To say otherwise is fickle in the extreme.
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#25 hafnia

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 11:43

Moyes has been a great manager in the fact he has given us stability without being majorly funded. How many managers would achieve what he has done with the funding he has. He is praised readily and criticised readily, which I don't subscribe to. One day he will be a top class manager, and yes that means that he does make mistakes and will continue to do so, he is a defensive manager which many seem to be frustrated with, I think he is learning all the time. Has Moyes taken us as far as we can go? You need to look higher up the chain.
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#26 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 11:43

Moyes has done a fantastic job for us. To say otherwise is fickle in the extreme.


i wouldn't disagree with that.

But managers and players sometimes go stale.
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#27 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 12:16

imo he has
he has always had problems tactically,his use of subs is awful and his transfer dealings are slightly suspect.I think he has done a very good job for us and will continue to do a good job but i want someone who can do a great job and bring us a trophy.



MUPPET!




Cahill, Piennar, Arteta, Jags, Johnny H, Howard,Lescott,Baines,Donovan all signed for next to nothing and all now established top Premiership players I dont think his signings are suspect at all.

No manager in the history of the game has got every signing right and I think its fair to say Moysie gets the vast majority of his spot on

There is a reason why Moyse has been voted the LMAs Manager of the Year 3 times so put the glue down and give him a break
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#28 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 15:50

MUPPET!




Cahill, Piennar, Arteta, Jags, Johnny H, Howard,Lescott,Baines,Donovan all signed for next to nothing and all now established top Premiership players I dont think his signings are suspect at all.

No manager in the history of the game has got every signing right and I think its fair to say Moysie gets the vast majority of his spot on

There is a reason why Moyse has been voted the LMAs Manager of the Year 3 times so put the glue down and give him a break

kroldrup vdm beattie would suggest he has bought a few doozies
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#29 Romey 1878

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 15:54

kroldrup vdm beattie would suggest he has bought a few doozies


But his successed far outweigh his failures when you look at transfers.
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#30 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 16:01

But his successed far outweigh his failures when you look at transfers.

unfortunately they don't did a list on diffennt forum and its not pleasant reading.

cahill pienaar arteta jagielka have all been great signings without a doubt but there have been a few terrible ones and i would put his transfer dealing at 50/50 which is quite a poor return.
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#31 MikeO

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 16:40

This would be my list....be interested to see yours :) .

Yobo, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Stubbs, Neville, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar, Howard, Fellaini, Saha, Heitinga.

Wright (but Wenger made the same mistake), Kroldrup (got most of the money back), Davies (again recouped money), McFadden (made good profit though), Beattie (debatable, top scorer one year and again got most of the money back), Johnson (again debatable, didn't live up to hopes but we sold him on for a profit), VDM (fair cop).


Jury still out on some (Billy, Distin).

Those are his most significant signings I think (probably missed some)....record stands up against anyone for me.

Posted elsewhere but bears repeating...from The Guardian after the United game...

"This has been a transformation as comprehensive as Arsène Wenger's refashioning of the lingering George Graham era: eight years ago in Moyes's first game in charge he picked a midfield of Tony Hibbert, Lee Carsley, Scot Gemmill and Thomas Gravesen. On Saturday his midfield was made up entirely of neat, skilful ball-players, three of whom were 5ft 7in or under. Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Steven Pienaar, Leon Osman and Mikel Arteta more than matched the visitors for invention. Add the injured Marouane Fellaini and Tim Cahill and Everton have arguably the best midfield in the country (perhaps behind only Chelsea)."
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#32 Bailey

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 17:14

Whether its europe or not football is football. Eleven aside its a simple game. Thursday was horrible and yes its frustrating that were not going further in competitons but we should all be thankful Davey is in charge of us. Christ knows where we would be without him.


I agree with the bit in bold (and the rest but thats not the subject of this reply :D ). If we had got in their faces, pressured the ball high up the pitch and made sure we didnt leave Saha isolated we would have ripped that Sporting team apart, as we would have with Liverpool and Birmingham. Instead we sat back, only pressed from well within our half and gave them the chance to play how they wanted and dominate (or at least control) the game.

I noticed in the 1st sporting game that we sat back quite a lot, especially after Cahill went off. I think Moyes has got it into his head that Everton should play the European way of sitting back, soaking up pressure and then trying to counter attack, or play slow possession at the back. This is what European teams are used to and therefore know how to play against. Players that are used to having time on the ball dont like being closed down (just look at most Euro imports to the EPL, they always take a while to adapt to the pace aka Billy!) and to not do that to foreign teams is criminal.
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#33 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 18:37

This would be my list....be interested to see yours :) .

Yobo, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Stubbs, Neville, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar, Howard, Fellaini, Saha, Heitinga.

Wright (but Wenger made the same mistake), Kroldrup (got most of the money back), Davies (again recouped money), McFadden (made good profit though), Beattie (debatable, top scorer one year and again got most of the money back), Johnson (again debatable, didn't live up to hopes but we sold him on for a profit), VDM (fair cop).


Jury still out on some (Billy, Distin).

Those are his most significant signings I think (probably missed some)....record stands up against anyone for me.

Posted elsewhere but bears repeating...from The Guardian after the United game...

"This has been a transformation as comprehensive as Arsène Wenger's refashioning of the lingering George Graham era: eight years ago in Moyes's first game in charge he picked a midfield of Tony Hibbert, Lee Carsley, Scot Gemmill and Thomas Gravesen. On Saturday his midfield was made up entirely of neat, skilful ball-players, three of whom were 5ft 7in or under. Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Steven Pienaar, Leon Osman and Mikel Arteta more than matched the visitors for invention. Add the injured Marouane Fellaini and Tim Cahill and Everton have arguably the best midfield in the country (perhaps behind only Chelsea)."


agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee

as for poor signings

li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden.
thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson
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#34 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 18:47

kroldrup vdm beattie would suggest he has bought a few doozies



As I said there isnt a manager on the planet who has got every signing right

I did promise myself a while back that I would just ignore your posts but this thread is that ridiculous I couldnt help myself
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#35 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 18:52

As I said there isnt a manager on the planet who has got every signing right

I did promise myself a while back that I would just ignore your posts but this thread is that ridiculous I couldnt help myself


just read the posts lots of people pointing out moyes weaknesses 1 fella wants him to get an assistant for euroopean games shows alot of faith that after 8 years in the job he needs an assistant
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#36 Blue 250

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 19:01

agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee

as for poor signings

li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden.
thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson


Li tie, Beattie, Davies, Kilbane, McFadden, Wright and Johnson aren't shite, I'd say more like average!
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#37 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 19:07

Li tie, Beattie, Davies, Kilbane, McFadden, Wright and Johnson aren't shite, I'd say more like average!

still leaves 15 in the poop section
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#38 bluenoseyankee

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 19:08

I think if we're going to look at Moyes' list of signings objectively we need to look at a few more things. First of all, loans should be kept separate from permanent transfers as they cost the club less (or nothing). Second of all we ought to include the price of each transfer as well as how much they were sold for (if applicable). Third, there needs to be a comparison between Moyes and another "top" manager...say Benitez, or Ferguson. I know for a fact Fergie has made a few really poor signings (see: Berbatov). The Waiter has clearly been worse in transfer dealings than Moyes (I think he has largely been worse at chosing who/when to sell than buy).
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#39 MikeO

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 19:20

li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden.

The Chinese cost us (effectively) nothing; Arnoux has never played so how can you judge (and cost nothing anyway); Jo we didn't buy; Castillo and Gardner were purely cover, never going to be first choices; Bosnar and da Silva were cheap (free?) punts that didn't pay off; Kilbane played more than 100 games and wasn't that bad; we didn't buy Jeffers; Plessis cost nothing; Rodrigo the same I think. Said? McFadden played more than 100 games for us, did a decent job at times and we made a 400% profit when we sold him on.
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#40 milky71

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Posted 27 Feb 2010 - 19:21

I think if we're going to look at Moyes' list of signings objectively we need to look at a few more things. First of all, loans should be kept separate from permanent transfers as they cost the club less (or nothing). Second of all we ought to include the price of each transfer as well as how much they were sold for (if applicable). Third, there needs to be a comparison between Moyes and another "top" manager...say Benitez, or Ferguson. I know for a fact Fergie has made a few really poor signings (see: Berbatov). The Waiter has clearly been worse in transfer dealings than Moyes (I think he has largely been worse at chosing who/when to sell than buy).

no moyes has signed 23+ poop players in 8 years thats 3 a year
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