Has Moyes Taken Us As Far As He Can?

[Matt]

 

View Postmilky71, on 28 Feb 2010 - 18:42, said:

As it is my opinion i can't be wrong.

 

Of course you can - I'm colour blind and in my opinion the sky is green.

 

That's not right, the sky is blue. However much I argue the sky maybe green to me, the fact of the matter is it is blue and I'm wrong!

I was failed on so many exams because i gave my opinion when i asked. Truth is, opinions are only worth anything when theyre backed up, something i know i didnt do because i couldnt be arsed revising or doing my homework. Something youre also not doing, or if you are, youre not doing a good job of explaining yourself...

[jcrawfor]

I was failed on so many exams because i gave my opinion when i asked. Truth is, opinions are only worth anything when theyre backed up, something i know i didnt do because i couldnt be arsed revising or doing my homework. Something youre also not doing, or if you are, youre not doing a good job of explaining yourself...

 

this.

[Kohen]

I was failed on so many exams because i gave my opinion when i asked. Truth is, opinions are only worth anything when theyre backed up, something i know i didnt do because i couldnt be arsed revising or doing my homework. Something youre also not doing, or if you are, youre not doing a good job of explaining yourself...

 

Is that at me?

 

^^

[Matt]

Is that at me?

 

^^

no dude, was backin you up!

[James McCrory]

'Keep The Faith' with Moyes. He works miricales with the level of investment he has to work with and generally gets the best out of some average players. Also the youth and young players coming through need a 'leader' like Davy Moyes to direct and encourage them to greater things that will be a benefit to Everton and the support. I have had to suffer double today with the Toffee's getting beat and the Celts playing like lost bhoys and being beat by the huns. So Keep The Faith and don't think the grass is greener, as change is not always the answer and usually patients pays in the end. :thumbsup_still:

[Kohen]

no dude, was backin you up!

 

Well that's alright then ;)

[milky71]

Milky take a look at Moysies transfer dealings and explain to me in what way are they suspect

 

 

TRANSFERS IN

 

Yobo £5M

Li Tie £450k

li Wei Feng loan

Rodrigo £1.5M

McBride loan

Said loan

Jeffers loan

Martyn free

Mcfadden £1.25M

Kilbane £1M

Bent £450k

Cahill £1.5M

Bosnar free

Beattie £6M

Plessis free

Ruddy £250k

Davies £4M

Kroldrup £5M

Arteta £2M

Neville £3.5M

Ferrari loan

AVM £1.5M

Stubbs free

Westerveld loan

Spencer unisclosed

AJ £8.6M

Lescott £5M

Da Silva free

Fernandes loan

Lukas Jut £1M

Jags £4M

Baines £5M

Wessels free

Yak £11.25M

Tommy G loan

Gosling £1M

Piennar £2.05M

Jacobsen free

Castillo loan

Saha free

Nash free

Felli £15M

Jo loan

Coleman nominal fee

Mustafi nominal fee

Bily £10M

Distin £5M

Niell free

Donovan loan

Senderos loan

 

 

TRANSFERS OUT

 

Niell £1M

Lescott £24M

AJ £10.5M

Mcfadden £6M

Beattie £4M

Naysmith £1M

Kroldrup £3.4M

Bent £2.5M

Chadwick £250k

Tommy G £3.5M

Rooney £30M

Clarke £150k

Linderoth £1M

Radzinski £1.75M

Pembridge £750k

Davies £2M

Hughes £400k

 

 

That works out at total spent £101.56M and total received £92.7M

 

So in other words Moysie has "blown" a huge £8.86M since he has been in charge and all he has to show for it is changing us from relegation fodder to European regulars!

 

you,ve missed out heitinga

 

but the amount you spend is irrelevant if you buy crap and moyes has bought alot of crap.

plus if you look half of the income in is from 2 players 1 being Rooney and the other was lescott who was never worth 24mill.

i would also question a few of the fees.

[Ian]

I cant believe this discussion, were you questioning Moyes future after the Chelsea and Man Utd game? I think not.

 

It wasnt a great match the other day but it was just one of them things...if rodwell didnt make 'that pass' at goodison a week before it would have been a different game altogether, I dont believe Moyes could be accountable for that mistake!

 

Back to Moyes, I really don't believe you have much to back your arguement with. As duncanmckenzieismagic stated, a 'loss' of under 10 million is nothing short of outstanding, considering how the man has transformed us from a relegation team that were lucky to get a point from the likes of Bolton/West Brom etc. to european qualification/ cup finals and beating the two best teams in the country (and possibly the world), not to mention some truely outstanding buys by the man....get a grip !!!!!

 

He has made mistakes in the market, but take a look at the most successful manager in the profession today...Kleberson /Miller / Djemba Djemba / Bellion / Veron (he wasn't cheap!)..

even the best do it

 

I really don't think its the time to be questioning Moyes' ability, it really is laughable at this moment in time (he was manager of the month last month FFS!!!), there maybe a time were he has took us as far as he can, but I can't see that occuring anytime soon.

 

The other point I would like to make is who could you bring in?

 

Who would be as successful with such limited funds? (and they are limited, hes 'spent' very little in terms of incoming and outgoing transactions)

 

Everton ARE a massive club and Moyes IS an outstanding manager. How could we possibly entice another quality manager, regardless of our history, with a shoestring budget at their disposal?

 

He has got flaws, he does make some questionable subs (not recently though IMO ), he has still got a lot to learn on the european stage but he is a young manager still finding his feet. He has progressed so quickly that he is bound to fall short on the big stage sometimes, another couple of years and hopefully some investment then I really do believe we can go alot further in European competitions. This is just the beginning

 

 

IN MOYES WE TRUST

[milky71]

I cant believe this discussion, were you questioning Moyes future after the Chelsea and Man Utd game? I think not.

 

It wasnt a great match the other day but it was just one of them things...if rodwell didnt make 'that pass' at goodison a week before it would have been a different game altogether, I dont believe Moyes could be accountable for that mistake!

 

Back to Moyes, I really don't believe you have much to back your arguement with. As duncanmckenzieismagic stated, a 'loss' of under 10 million is nothing short of outstanding, considering how the man has transformed us from a relegation team that were lucky to get a point from the likes of Bolton/West Brom etc. to european qualification/ cup finals and beating the two best teams in the country (and possibly the world), not to mention some truely outstanding buys by the man....get a grip !!!!!

 

He has made mistakes in the market, but take a look at the most successful manager in the profession today...Kleberson /Miller / Djemba Djemba / Bellion / Veron (he wasn't cheap!)..

even the best do it

 

I really don't think its the time to be questioning Moyes' ability, it really is laughable at this moment in time (he was manager of the month last month FFS!!!), there maybe a time were he has took us as far as he can, but I can't see that occuring anytime soon.

 

The other point I would like to make is who could you bring in?

 

Who would be as successful with such limited funds? (and they are limited, hes 'spent' very little in terms of incoming and outgoing transactions)

 

Everton ARE a massive club and Moyes IS an outstanding manager. How could we possibly entice another quality manager, regardless of our history, with a shoestring budget at their disposal?

 

He has got flaws, he does make some questionable subs (not recently though IMO ), he has still got a lot to learn on the european stage but he is a young manager still finding his feet. He has progressed so quickly that he is bound to fall short on the big stage sometimes, another couple of years and hopefully some investment then I really do believe we can go alot further in European competitions. This is just the beginning

 

 

IN MOYES WE TRUST

 

I have been questioning him for the past 2 seasons.

He has been with us for 8 years now and you say he has still got a lot to learn if i was employed for 8 years and didn,t know my job i would be kicked out.

All i am saying is he has taken us along way that is non negotiable but has he got what it takes to take us further.

JOe Royle did better with no money in a shorter amount of time and there may be another young manager like moyes was when he came who can push us on.

[shetland]

I have been questioning him for the past 2 seasons.

He has been with us for 8 years now and you say he has still got a lot to learn if i was employed for 8 years and didn,t know my job i would be kicked out.

All i am saying is he has taken us along way that is non negotiable but has he got what it takes to take us further.

JOe Royle did better with no money in a shorter amount of time and there may be another young manager like moyes was when he came who can push us on.

 

Care to explain this? I can't argue with the fact that yes we did win 1 trophy which in a way is better but can you remind what our league positions were during the same period?

[milky71]

Care to explain this? I can't argue with the fact that yes we did win 1 trophy which in a way is better but can you remind what our league positions were during the same period?

second season 7th then he left midseason

 

also he didn't have the luxury of selling a 30mill player

Edited March 1, 2010 by milky71

[shetland]

hardly a luxury when we were heavily in debt at the time! It would have been fine if we could have sold rooney and spent the money on players but as far as I'm aware it pretty much all went on clearing debts. Also we didn't get 30mil straight as far as I'm aware we got it over several payments plus some of the fee was based on appearances etc. so that only came in dribs and drabs

[milky71]

hardly a luxury when we were heavily in debt at the time! It would have been fine if we could have sold rooney and spent the money on players but as far as I'm aware it pretty much all went on clearing debts. Also we didn't get 30mil straight as far as I'm aware we got it over several payments plus some of the fee was based on appearances etc. so that only came in dribs and drabs

 

I apologise royle finished 6th not 7th but there weren't as many european spots back then he also had an arsehole of a chairman who wouldn't back so he walked.

 

IMO much better manager than Moyes

 

can you remind me where moyes finished in his 3rd season

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

you,ve missed out heitinga

 

but the amount you spend is irrelevant if you buy crap and moyes has bought alot of crap.

plus if you look half of the income in is from 2 players 1 being Rooney and the other was lescott who was never worth 24mill.

i would also question a few of the fees.

 

 

 

Milky could I please have the name and contact details of your care in the community officer because I think we need to have a little chat about wether or not you are really ready to be unleashed on society?

[Kohen]

 

 

can you remind me where moyes finished in his 3rd season

 

I'm gonna go out on a whim here, but I don't think you need reminding.

[milky71]

I'm gonna go out on a whim here, but I don't think you need reminding.

 

to be honest i won't be disappointed if moyes stays as he is doing a good job but if things don't improve next season then i will be asking the same questions.

What i would like is.

1 all transfer dealings done before start of season.

2 Moyes rotates his squad a bit more.

3 Becomes a bit more adventurous away from home and get's a win against a top 4 team away.

4 If someone comes in for Pienaar he does the deal quickly

[milky71]

Milky could I please have the name and contact details of your care in the community officer because I think we need to have a little chat about wether or not you are really ready to be unleashed on society?

you have missed heitinga out though.

phone number of my councillor is 0871 663 1878 ask for David

[Kohen]

to be honest i won't be disappointed if moyes stays as he is doing a good job

 

What?!?!?1

 

But you just said....

[milky71]

What?!?!?1

 

But you just said....

REad the thread properly i never said he should be sacked or even leave i just think he may feel he has taken us as far as he can.

I have always said he has done a good job,but feel he is limited in tactics.

 

I admit that i point out his failings more than his successes.

[Kohen]

REad the thread properly i never said he should be sacked or even leave i just think he may feel he has taken us as far as he can.

I have always said he has done a good job,but feel he is limited in tactics.

 

I admit that i point out his failings more than his successes.

 

So then I ask the question who can do a better job?

[carlmc25]

I see you conveniently forgot to mention that the season after finishing 6th, Royle had us involved in a relegation dogfight before he left via 'mutual consent' with 7 games remaining. He did a good job for us but his limitations were quite apparent, Moyes is a far better manager.

[nogs]

This is all pure bullsh*t. 10 years ago the only pleasure we got all season was when we knew we were mathematically safe from relegation, with maybe a few of Walter Smith's derby wins thrown in as an added bonus. Now, we're feeling the crushing disappointment of going out of Europe and losing away to the team currently sat fourth in the Premiership after back-to-back victories against the top two. Time to question whether the manager's doing a good job? Do one, please.

 

For the record, I'm really hurting after the last two games, and it probably hurts more when you think you're team is capable of winning something only to see them fail than it does when you just expect mediocrity and worse. Moyes has turned us into a very, very football team, he has bought and nurtured some outstanding players and made us the envy of most clubs in the country again. He isn't perfect - he is naturally cautious and that isn't always the best trait for football manager, he still hasn't mastered the art of knock-out football and we have an annoying habit of occasionally playing brilliantly in one game and utter gash the next, or even in one half to the next (e.g. Spurs). But all of that is far outweighed by his many, many strengths, which i'm not going to bother listing because there's too many.

 

Moyes will be feeling the pressure to win something with this club more than anything, he has room for improvement as a manager and I'm sure he demands the best of himself. In all probability, this season will end as a slight disappointment, but I still think we've done enough to show we're a better side than we were last season, and I think we will keep improving. The time to start questioning his role at the club is if we're still having these discussions in 5 years - it's a long road to success, but look how long Man Utd and Chelsea both went without winning league titles.

[shetland]

^^^^^ Couldn't put it better myself!!!!

Having talked to mates of mine who support a variety of clubs almost all of them (apart from mainly mancs and red shites) have often told me they'd love to have Moyes as their manager, in fact one of the most ardent Spurs fans regularly tells me that he thinks Redknapp's taken them as far as they can go and that he'd love Davey at WHL so it certainly seems nationwide that Milky is in small minority of people who think this is the best we can get with him in charge, CRAZY!!!!

[milky71]

This is all pure bullsh*t. 10 years ago the only pleasure we got all season was when we knew we were mathematically safe from relegation, with maybe a few of Walter Smith's derby wins thrown in as an added bonus. Now, we're feeling the crushing disappointment of going out of Europe and losing away to the team currently sat fourth in the Premiership after back-to-back victories against the top two. Time to question whether the manager's doing a good job? Do one, please.

 

For the record, I'm really hurting after the last two games, and it probably hurts more when you think you're team is capable of winning something only to see them fail than it does when you just expect mediocrity and worse. Moyes has turned us into a very, very football team, he has bought and nurtured some outstanding players and made us the envy of most clubs in the country again. He isn't perfect - he is naturally cautious and that isn't always the best trait for football manager, he still hasn't mastered the art of knock-out football and we have an annoying habit of occasionally playing brilliantly in one game and utter gash the next, or even in one half to the next (e.g. Spurs). But all of that is far outweighed by his many, many strengths, which i'm not going to bother listing because there's too many.

 

Moyes will be feeling the pressure to win something with this club more than anything, he has room for improvement as a manager and I'm sure he demands the best of himself. In all probability, this season will end as a slight disappointment, but I still think we've done enough to show we're a better side than we were last season, and I think we will keep improving. The time to start questioning his role at the club is if we're still having these discussions in 5 years - it's a long road to success, but look how long Man Utd and Chelsea both went without winning league titles.

 

 

i wouldlike to see this list

if your willing tolist his weaknesses like you have you should list his strengths as well.

 

should i also remind you moyes only just avoided relegation in his third year.

 

If kenwright was in charge when royle was manager we would have been top 4 material every year by now imo.

Edited March 1, 2010 by milky71

[nogs]

i wouldlike to see this list

if your willing tolist his weaknesses like you have you should list his strengths as well.

 

should i also remind you moyes only just avoided relegation in his third year.

 

If kenwright was in charge when royle was manager we would have been top 4 material every year by now imo.

 

Strengths:

 

In football terms: Shrewd in the transfer market, brings the best out of players, excellent record on developing young players, has consistently improved the quality of football we play in line with consistent improvement in results, generally a very sound tactician defensively (bar the occasional aberration), clearly a very good coach (examples - how physiacally fit he demands his players are and how often he asks players to play out of position, meaning he clearly coaches his players to add extra dimensions to their game).

 

Personal/leadership: Commands respect and loyalty from players, maintains strong sense of team unity and discipline, maintains excellent relationship with club chairman and board, conducts himself impeccably in the public eye (generally managing to demonstrate both humility and burning ambition at same time), generally sets the highest standards for every aspect of the club and is a true leader in the way he demands those around him live up to those standards, and possibly most importantly has the ability to make those around him (players, fans) believe they can achieve even against the biggest odds.

 

Any more?

[milky71]

Strengths:

 

In football terms: Shrewd in the transfer market, brings the best out of players, excellent record on developing young players, has consistently improved the quality of football we play in line with consistent improvement in results, generally a very sound tactician defensively (bar the occasional aberration), clearly a very good coach (examples - how physiacally fit he demands his players are and how often he asks players to play out of position, meaning he clearly coaches his players to add extra dimensions to their game).

 

Personal/leadership: Commands respect and loyalty from players, maintains strong sense of team unity and discipline, maintains excellent relationship with club chairman and board, conducts himself impeccably in the public eye (generally managing to demonstrate both humility and burning ambition at same time), generally sets the highest standards for every aspect of the club and is a true leader in the way he demands those around him live up to those standards, and possibly most importantly has the ability to make those around him (players, fans) believe they can achieve even against the biggest odds.

 

Any more?

 

i hope you have more as your weakness list was probably longer.

 

his defensive tactics seem to be quite poor after the 3-0 defeat against lisbon.

 

as for having fit players i feel he overplays our better players leading to burnout as was shown against lisbon.

 

Can't really agree with the style of football after witnessing hoofball from nev and yobo.

 

Has an eye for a bargain but 15mill on felli was 10mill to much in my eyes.

 

What young players has he improved.imo opinion gosling and coleman aren't getting enough games.whilst anichebe and vaughan haven't improved over their careers.

[ustoffee22]

Milky ur just a Moyes hater. We have a bad game against Lisbon. And then we have a hangover and lose to Spurs it happens. Just before that we beat Man U and Chelsea. Does Moyes make mistakes absolutely. Is he also brilliant at times absolutely. That's what being a manager is. I can't sit back and listen to you bash him. When as a club we are lucky to have him. I understand you have you opinion but there has been three pages of reasons why you opinion's wrong it's time to stop being stubborn.

 

Was 15 mil to much for felli yes.

 

But he was the best player we had this season until he got hurt.

[nogs]

i hope you have more as your weakness list was probably longer.

 

his defensive tactics seem to be quite poor after the 3-0 defeat against lisbon.

 

as for having fit players i feel he overplays our better players leading to burnout as was shown against lisbon.

 

Can't really agree with the style of football after witnessing hoofball from nev and yobo.

 

Has an eye for a bargain but 15mill on felli was 10mill to much in my eyes.

 

What young players has he improved.imo opinion gosling and coleman aren't getting enough games.whilst anichebe and vaughan haven't improved over their careers.

 

Read again there were three on my 'weakness' list

[marcopaulo]

...i dunno what to say i honestly dont..i thought from previous threads and conversations we had that you're a complete **** but now you have proved it...you have no clue and refuse to answer the question of who would do a better job? also you say his transfer dealings are suspect and also questioned the fees paid for lescott...well that was good management to get all that money out of city when he knew he was going to lose the player...as for his transfers he has brought in...he bought beattie who was top scored for a season and did a good job then sold for a little loss...we had johnson during that time too who did a good job scored a few goals and we sold for a profit despite an injury that made his best asset(pace) seem a little worse....you seem to forget marcus bent too who did a fantastic job and was bought for pretty much fuck all! and mcfadden who was a crackin player on his day just never had it enough times and we sold for much more than anyone could have hoped for...he has bought a few shit players but instead of keepin them around like the spanish waiter he got shut and brought someone else in..even regardless of every single point that has been made look where we was and look where we are! moyes has turned us from almost certain relegation to the best of the rest! had one dodgy season where we finished 17th because a lot of focus was on a 17 year old all year long!

 

you're just a wind up merchant who wants a reaction out of people and a complete and utter moyes hater! answer the question of who would do better with what we have because you have dodged it so far!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

So Milky just to sum it up

 

You only rate Felli at £5M, you dont rate Moyse and you want to get rid of Piennar.

 

Is there anybody at the club you do like?

 

 

Ive got to hand it to you mate you are very entertaing, thick as shit, but entertaining all the same!