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Has Moyes Taken Us As Far As He Can?


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#81 carlmc25

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 14:41

I see you conveniently forgot to mention that the season after finishing 6th, Royle had us involved in a relegation dogfight before he left via 'mutual consent' with 7 games remaining. He did a good job for us but his limitations were quite apparent, Moyes is a far better manager.
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#82 nogs

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 15:06

This is all pure bullsh*t. 10 years ago the only pleasure we got all season was when we knew we were mathematically safe from relegation, with maybe a few of Walter Smith's derby wins thrown in as an added bonus. Now, we're feeling the crushing disappointment of going out of Europe and losing away to the team currently sat fourth in the Premiership after back-to-back victories against the top two. Time to question whether the manager's doing a good job? Do one, please.

For the record, I'm really hurting after the last two games, and it probably hurts more when you think you're team is capable of winning something only to see them fail than it does when you just expect mediocrity and worse. Moyes has turned us into a very, very football team, he has bought and nurtured some outstanding players and made us the envy of most clubs in the country again. He isn't perfect - he is naturally cautious and that isn't always the best trait for football manager, he still hasn't mastered the art of knock-out football and we have an annoying habit of occasionally playing brilliantly in one game and utter gash the next, or even in one half to the next (e.g. Spurs). But all of that is far outweighed by his many, many strengths, which i'm not going to bother listing because there's too many.

Moyes will be feeling the pressure to win something with this club more than anything, he has room for improvement as a manager and I'm sure he demands the best of himself. In all probability, this season will end as a slight disappointment, but I still think we've done enough to show we're a better side than we were last season, and I think we will keep improving. The time to start questioning his role at the club is if we're still having these discussions in 5 years - it's a long road to success, but look how long Man Utd and Chelsea both went without winning league titles.
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#83 Blue Oz

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 15:20

^^^^^ Couldn't put it better myself!!!!
Having talked to mates of mine who support a variety of clubs almost all of them (apart from mainly mancs and red shites) have often told me they'd love to have Moyes as their manager, in fact one of the most ardent Spurs fans regularly tells me that he thinks Redknapp's taken them as far as they can go and that he'd love Davey at WHL so it certainly seems nationwide that Milky is in small minority of people who think this is the best we can get with him in charge, CRAZY!!!!
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#84 milky71

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 15:30

This is all pure bullsh*t. 10 years ago the only pleasure we got all season was when we knew we were mathematically safe from relegation, with maybe a few of Walter Smith's derby wins thrown in as an added bonus. Now, we're feeling the crushing disappointment of going out of Europe and losing away to the team currently sat fourth in the Premiership after back-to-back victories against the top two. Time to question whether the manager's doing a good job? Do one, please.

For the record, I'm really hurting after the last two games, and it probably hurts more when you think you're team is capable of winning something only to see them fail than it does when you just expect mediocrity and worse. Moyes has turned us into a very, very football team, he has bought and nurtured some outstanding players and made us the envy of most clubs in the country again. He isn't perfect - he is naturally cautious and that isn't always the best trait for football manager, he still hasn't mastered the art of knock-out football and we have an annoying habit of occasionally playing brilliantly in one game and utter gash the next, or even in one half to the next (e.g. Spurs). But all of that is far outweighed by his many, many strengths, which i'm not going to bother listing because there's too many.

Moyes will be feeling the pressure to win something with this club more than anything, he has room for improvement as a manager and I'm sure he demands the best of himself. In all probability, this season will end as a slight disappointment, but I still think we've done enough to show we're a better side than we were last season, and I think we will keep improving. The time to start questioning his role at the club is if we're still having these discussions in 5 years - it's a long road to success, but look how long Man Utd and Chelsea both went without winning league titles.



i wouldlike to see this list
if your willing tolist his weaknesses like you have you should list his strengths as well.

should i also remind you moyes only just avoided relegation in his third year.

If kenwright was in charge when royle was manager we would have been top 4 material every year by now imo.

Edited by milky71, 01 Mar 2010 - 15:31.

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#85 nogs

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 16:28

i wouldlike to see this list
if your willing tolist his weaknesses like you have you should list his strengths as well.

should i also remind you moyes only just avoided relegation in his third year.

If kenwright was in charge when royle was manager we would have been top 4 material every year by now imo.


Strengths:

In football terms: Shrewd in the transfer market, brings the best out of players, excellent record on developing young players, has consistently improved the quality of football we play in line with consistent improvement in results, generally a very sound tactician defensively (bar the occasional aberration), clearly a very good coach (examples - how physiacally fit he demands his players are and how often he asks players to play out of position, meaning he clearly coaches his players to add extra dimensions to their game).

Personal/leadership: Commands respect and loyalty from players, maintains strong sense of team unity and discipline, maintains excellent relationship with club chairman and board, conducts himself impeccably in the public eye (generally managing to demonstrate both humility and burning ambition at same time), generally sets the highest standards for every aspect of the club and is a true leader in the way he demands those around him live up to those standards, and possibly most importantly has the ability to make those around him (players, fans) believe they can achieve even against the biggest odds.

Any more?
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#86 milky71

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 16:53

Strengths:

In football terms: Shrewd in the transfer market, brings the best out of players, excellent record on developing young players, has consistently improved the quality of football we play in line with consistent improvement in results, generally a very sound tactician defensively (bar the occasional aberration), clearly a very good coach (examples - how physiacally fit he demands his players are and how often he asks players to play out of position, meaning he clearly coaches his players to add extra dimensions to their game).

Personal/leadership: Commands respect and loyalty from players, maintains strong sense of team unity and discipline, maintains excellent relationship with club chairman and board, conducts himself impeccably in the public eye (generally managing to demonstrate both humility and burning ambition at same time), generally sets the highest standards for every aspect of the club and is a true leader in the way he demands those around him live up to those standards, and possibly most importantly has the ability to make those around him (players, fans) believe they can achieve even against the biggest odds.

Any more?


i hope you have more as your weakness list was probably longer.

his defensive tactics seem to be quite poor after the 3-0 defeat against lisbon.

as for having fit players i feel he overplays our better players leading to burnout as was shown against lisbon.

Can't really agree with the style of football after witnessing hoofball from nev and yobo.

Has an eye for a bargain but 15mill on felli was 10mill to much in my eyes.

What young players has he improved.imo opinion gosling and coleman aren't getting enough games.whilst anichebe and vaughan haven't improved over their careers.
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#87 ustoffee22

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 17:04

Milky ur just a Moyes hater. We have a bad game against Lisbon. And then we have a hangover and lose to Spurs it happens. Just before that we beat Man U and Chelsea. Does Moyes make mistakes absolutely. Is he also brilliant at times absolutely. That's what being a manager is. I can't sit back and listen to you bash him. When as a club we are lucky to have him. I understand you have you opinion but there has been three pages of reasons why you opinion's wrong it's time to stop being stubborn.

Was 15 mil to much for felli yes.

But he was the best player we had this season until he got hurt.
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#88 nogs

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 17:12

i hope you have more as your weakness list was probably longer.

his defensive tactics seem to be quite poor after the 3-0 defeat against lisbon.

as for having fit players i feel he overplays our better players leading to burnout as was shown against lisbon.

Can't really agree with the style of football after witnessing hoofball from nev and yobo.

Has an eye for a bargain but 15mill on felli was 10mill to much in my eyes.

What young players has he improved.imo opinion gosling and coleman aren't getting enough games.whilst anichebe and vaughan haven't improved over their careers.


Read again there were three on my 'weakness' list
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#89 marcopaulo

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 17:52

...i dunno what to say i honestly dont..i thought from previous threads and conversations we had that you're a complete **** but now you have proved it...you have no clue and refuse to answer the question of who would do a better job? also you say his transfer dealings are suspect and also questioned the fees paid for lescott...well that was good management to get all that money out of city when he knew he was going to lose the player...as for his transfers he has brought in...he bought beattie who was top scored for a season and did a good job then sold for a little loss...we had johnson during that time too who did a good job scored a few goals and we sold for a profit despite an injury that made his best asset(pace) seem a little worse....you seem to forget marcus bent too who did a fantastic job and was bought for pretty much fuck all! and mcfadden who was a crackin player on his day just never had it enough times and we sold for much more than anyone could have hoped for...he has bought a few shit players but instead of keepin them around like the spanish waiter he got shut and brought someone else in..even regardless of every single point that has been made look where we was and look where we are! moyes has turned us from almost certain relegation to the best of the rest! had one dodgy season where we finished 17th because a lot of focus was on a 17 year old all year long!

you're just a wind up merchant who wants a reaction out of people and a complete and utter moyes hater! answer the question of who would do better with what we have because you have dodged it so far!
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#90 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 18:16

So Milky just to sum it up

You only rate Felli at 5M, you dont rate Moyse and you want to get rid of Piennar.

Is there anybody at the club you do like?


Ive got to hand it to you mate you are very entertaing, thick as shit, but entertaining all the same!
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#91 milky71

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 18:46

So Milky just to sum it up

You only rate Felli at 5M, you dont rate Moyse and you want to get rid of Piennar.

Is there anybody at the club you do like?


Ive got to hand it to you mate you are very entertaing, thick as shit, but entertaining all the same!


wrong wrong and maybe
i thought felli was worth 5mill when we bought him maybe worth 10 now.
i keep saying moyes has done a good job but no-one seems to notice that. he has alot of faults.
as for pienaar i feel he wants to go and we shouldn't stand in his way if a decent offer comes in.
perhaps i don't explain myself well enough but i have the best interest of the club in mind.

I would also like to ask everyone if they thought moyes was the right choice when he arrived and why.
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#92 nuneaton bluenose

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 19:18

dont post very often but i had too on this one moyes been in charge 8 years been voted manager of year 3-4 times beating the likes of saf ,jose ,wenger, to name a few,ok i could not believe i was watching everton last thursday worse i have whitnessed ,thought we at least deserved a draw sunday donavon what a miss i do get frustrated with somme of moyes substitutes etc. but you ask any fan in couuntry what they think of moyes and they all will say what a fatastic manager we have always honest in his after match comments too how many prem managers can you say that about like a few have posted wait for a full squad next year fancy us to get in top four again next year with full squad keep up the good work davy in moyes we trust
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#93 milky71

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 19:22

dont post very often but i had too on this one moyes been in charge 8 years been voted manager of year 3-4 times beating the likes of saf ,jose ,wenger, to name a few,ok i could not believe i was watching everton last thursday worse i have whitnessed ,thought we at least deserved a draw sunday donavon what a miss i do get frustrated with somme of moyes substitutes etc. but you ask any fan in couuntry what they think of moyes and they all will say what a fatastic manager we have always honest in his after match comments too how many prem managers can you say that about like a few have posted wait for a full squad next year fancy us to get in top four again next year with full squad keep up the good work davy in moyes we trust


Did you see moyes interview after the liverpool game it was shameful as was the performance.
February was odd month 2 excellent wins but 3 very poor defeats.

It amazes me how many people have a go at me whilst pointing out moyes failings themselves.
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#94 MikeO

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Posted 01 Mar 2010 - 19:59

It amazes me how many people have a go at me whilst pointing out moyes failings themselves.

It's called perspective.
You (everyone) look at the available facts and draw a balanced conclusion.

You come to one conclusion, everyone else comes to another.

Or (more likely imo) you come to the same conclusion but just get a kick out of winding everyone up.

My last post on it....I'd advise everyone else to do the same.
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#95 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 08:14

It's called perspective.
You (everyone) look at the available facts and draw a balanced conclusion.

You come to one conclusion, everyone else comes to another.

Or (more likely imo) you come to the same conclusion but just get a kick out of winding everyone up.

My last post on it....I'd advise everyone else to do the same.


I have to agree with you its all about perspective.
Alot of the posts point out moyes failings including poor tactics,poor use of substitutions,lack of ambition whilst playing away yet evreyone loves him because he has finished 5th in the prem.
I for one set my sights higher for
rewards.
As i have said many times in this thread moyes has done well.
but we shouldput it intoperspective as well.
Not many managers spent 25million last summer and to be in 10th after spending that amount is poor.injuries or not
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#96 marcopaulo

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 11:03

who could do a better job then???? i asked twice got no answer!! if you can come up with someone who can do a better job with almost fuck all money you tell bill and we will carry you through liverpool when we win the premiership! til you can shut the fuck up sayin you set your sights higher!

and he spent 25 million after selling that much!
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#97 Blue 250

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 12:22

I have to agree with you its all about perspective.
Alot of the posts point out moyes failings including poor tactics,poor use of substitutions,lack of ambition whilst playing away yet evreyone loves him because he has finished 5th in the prem.
I for one set my sights higher for
rewards.
As i have said many times in this thread moyes has done well.
but we shouldput it intoperspective as well.
Not many managers spent 25million last summer and to be in 10th after spending that amount is poor.injuries or not



AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!

If you were a poker player, and had just played that hand.....you would be finished :lol:

You say everyone loves him because he's helped us finish " 5th in the prem "...!Couldn't you bring yourself to actually say " 4th "....MMMmmmm, not many Evertonians have forgoten that 4th spot.....maybe if you were a red you wouldn't want to dwell on it would you!
AND all the other reasons Evertonians love Moyes, they are the ones you seem to hate...almost as if you were a red!Bet you hate him for his Peoples Club boast!

The last bit of your post also shows your true colours..BECAUSE, All Evertonians even if thay are not Moyes lovers, would HAVE to admit, that 10th after all the injuries they have suffered is pretty good!.

I've no problem with Blues disliking Moyes........but you dislike Everton.

Why don't you take your sour milk back to a red forum.
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#98 StevO

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 12:47

agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee

as for poor signings

li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden.
thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson


i didnt want to lower myself, but you are a prick!
li tie and li weifeng came here for the whole change thing, and li tie was a decent player, we lost nothing on them both.
beattie, as stated, was our top scorer then was replaced, the same with johnson.
vdm, fair enough.
davies, wasnt terrible and was moved on for decent money.
arnoux, hes a young guy from the states, hes only been here 9 months, that cant be a failure yet you fool.
jo, first time he was decent and was worth a punt for the second, besides, only a loan.
castillo, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
gardner, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
da silva, cost bugger all, lost only his wages.
spencer, a kid who was highly rated, cost little. worth a try.
bosnar, cost little, lost only wages.
kilbane, bargain, cost us little, gave us a few good years, a credit to himself. not the best player but got on with the job.
kroldrup, fair cop, but we got the money back.
plessis and rodrigo, cost little, lost only wages.
jeffers, loan, worth a go.
mcfadden, was a good player in his time here, made a nice profit.

you say thats quite a lot of shit in short time, ha read your posts! thats an aweful lot of shit in a short time!
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#99 EFC-Paul

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 12:52

To put it simply NO he has had limited resources and a shoe string thin squad for most part of his time here and at the moment i think we are finally seeing what he wanted a squad with more depth some great young players with good potential and a team spirit that seems second to none and on our day we can beat or at least be a match for most teams, We had a bad game against Sporting in the second leg and i do think Moyes got his selection and game plan wrong which is unfortunate but it happens and at the end of the day we played one of the better footballing teams in the competition again with Spurs who have a cracking squad to be fair so again it happens.

If not for the poor start which you can't put on Moyes solely and an absolute shitter with injuries i think we would be fighting Spurs and City for fourth or fifth spot this season but we aren't and for the last few months I've been looking forward to next season hopefully with a near fully fit squad, He's a great manager who most teams would love at the healm and we are fortunate to have him here considering he has had very little to work with over the years.

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Edited by EFC-Paul, 02 Mar 2010 - 12:54.

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#100 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 13:44

who could do a better job then???? i asked twice got no answer!! if you can come up with someone who can do a better job with almost fuck all money you tell bill and we will carry you through liverpool when we win the premiership! til you can shut the fuck up sayin you set your sights higher!

and he spent 25 million after selling that much!


I Would trust bill to pluck another beauty up from the lowewr leagues like he did with moyes.
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#101 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 13:46

i didnt want to lower myself, but you are a prick!
li tie and li weifeng came here for the whole change thing, and li tie was a decent player, we lost nothing on them both.
beattie, as stated, was our top scorer then was replaced, the same with johnson.
vdm, fair enough.
davies, wasnt terrible and was moved on for decent money.
arnoux, hes a young guy from the states, hes only been here 9 months, that cant be a failure yet you fool.
jo, first time he was decent and was worth a punt for the second, besides, only a loan.
castillo, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
gardner, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
da silva, cost bugger all, lost only his wages.
spencer, a kid who was highly rated, cost little. worth a try.
bosnar, cost little, lost only wages.
kilbane, bargain, cost us little, gave us a few good years, a credit to himself. not the best player but got on with the job.
kroldrup, fair cop, but we got the money back.
plessis and rodrigo, cost little, lost only wages.
jeffers, loan, worth a go.
mcfadden, was a good player in his time here, made a nice profit.

you say thats quite a lot of shit in short time, ha read your posts! thats an aweful lot of shit in a short time!


the value of a player is irrelevant if they are shite.
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#102 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 13:53

i didnt want to lower myself, but you are a prick!
li tie and li weifeng came here for the whole change thing, and li tie was a decent player, we lost nothing on them both.
beattie, as stated, was our top scorer then was replaced, the same with johnson.
vdm, fair enough.
davies, wasnt terrible and was moved on for decent money.
arnoux, hes a young guy from the states, hes only been here 9 months, that cant be a failure yet you fool.
jo, first time he was decent and was worth a punt for the second, besides, only a loan.
castillo, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
gardner, only a loan to cover the squad, job done.
da silva, cost bugger all, lost only his wages.
spencer, a kid who was highly rated, cost little. worth a try.
bosnar, cost little, lost only wages.
kilbane, bargain, cost us little, gave us a few good years, a credit to himself. not the best player but got on with the job.
kroldrup, fair cop, but we got the money back.
plessis and rodrigo, cost little, lost only wages.
jeffers, loan, worth a go.
mcfadden, was a good player in his time here, made a nice profit.

you say thats quite a lot of shit in short time, ha read your posts! thats an aweful lot of shit in a short time!


im happy to lower myself and reply but you say that gardner was only a loan as cover and job done. i believe he never made the bench for us let alone play.and anyone who rates kilbane can't be a football fan in my eyes.
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#103 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 14:03

Milky please stop posting its getting painful now
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#104 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 14:11

Milky please stop posting its getting painful now

the truth often hurts and is hard to accept but i get the feeling people are wavering now.
im just compiling a list of moyes failings as pointed out in this thread by people who support him.
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#105 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 14:28

romey1878 agrees he has problems tactically and is dodgy with substitutions.
calmc25 substitutions are suspect cup form is disastorous.
Bailey no plan b
wallwriter agrees and thinks maybe moyes has taken us as far as he can.
Rubecula. his tactics in europe needs looking at.he suggests we get someone in to help moyes out.
wallwriter agrees with rubecula.
the score agrees with wallwriter.

seems im not the only one judging moyes.
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#106 Memmaclub

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 15:34

romey1878 agrees he has problems tactically and is dodgy with substitutions.
calmc25 substitutions are suspect cup form is disastorous.
Bailey no plan b
wallwriter agrees and thinks maybe moyes has taken us as far as he can.
Rubecula. his tactics in europe needs looking at.he suggests we get someone in to help moyes out.
wallwriter agrees with rubecula.
the score agrees with wallwriter.

seems im not the only one judging moyes.


I am sure alot of people think moyes can improve and that is what the above comments show, but if moyes left us it would be worse than the effect Allardyce leaving bolton had on that club. It is amazing that anyone can question moyes when you look at what he has done for this club.

We may not have improved this season when you look at our points tally but in two weeks we have scored 5 past the two best teams in the country so that must show progress oh and the fact we pretty much outplayed arsenal aswell.
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#107 milky71

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Posted 02 Mar 2010 - 16:00

I am sure alot of people think moyes can improve and that is what the above comments show, but if moyes left us it would be worse than the effect Allardyce leaving bolton had on that club. It is amazing that anyone can question moyes when you look at what he has done for this club.

We may not have improved this season when you look at our points tally but in two weeks we have scored 5 past the two best teams in the country so that must show progress oh and the fact we pretty much outplayed arsenal aswell.


i think the point of the thread has been misunderstood.

i will ask again and i will state that i am not requesting that moyes leaves.

has moyes taken us as far as he can.
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