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Un-inspiring Everton? - No


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#1 drgoodspeak

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Posted 08 Mar 2010 - 17:58

Hi Guys,

Derby County fan here, so consider this a random, neutral view....

I have to admit that Everton have always been one of those teams that never caught my imagination as a layman.

You know the drill, you fancy a casual watch of football on TV and check what's on, "Fulham vs Birmingham".... no thanks. Everton used to fall into that bracket for me. Not any more.

There I was, yesterday, hungover and looking for diversion. I slept through most of Reading vs Villa and then thought I'd give your match a go.

Blimey. I know it was Hull (Awful), but you guys ripped them to shreds. Apart from the pre half-time wobble, the attacking football being played was superb and as good as, if not better than, anything I've seen all season. If Yakuba was firing properly, you may even have got to double figures, it was that comprehensive a performance.

Obviously great results against Chelsea and Man Utd, but I'd say it was yesterday when I really sat up and took notice of Everton. Arteta was great (his wife is stunning), Heiteger was solid and Donovan seemed very useful. However, the two players that really caught my eye were Pienaar and Neville. More shocks, as I never really understood what Pienaar was for and, as you know, most people automatically dimiss Neville as the grey man. Neville's performance was one of the tidiest I've seen in a long time from a full back, he never seems to waste the ball. Very impressive.

Taking all into account, Moyes has to be one of the best managers that the game has seen in years.

I know you've had issues with injuries and a shocking start to the season, but how have your performances compared to yesterday? Was it a flash-in-the-pan one-off? Or is this how your side is developing? If it is a sign of things to come, then it must be good to be an Everton supporter.

At the risk of starting to sound like a gushing Bill Kenwright (remember that?), I'll end with a thank you for diluting my hangover misery somewhat and good luck wishes for your push for fourth place. Tough objective but you never know.

I await your next TV appearance with interest!

Remember, Derby County, so I do have some recent Premiership Pedigree.......

DG
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#2 Romey 1878

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Posted 08 Mar 2010 - 18:04

Well that made me smile :).

Our performances have mostly been like that for the past couple of months, barring a few nightmare performances (Spurs, Sporting Lisbon, Liverpool, Birmingham), and we've mixed it with the best - we beat Man U and Chelsea with a lot more ease than I think any of us would have expected and we deserved the three points against Arsenal where we played some very good football. We're capable of playing that sort of football week in week out, but sometimes we resort to hoofing the ball and missing the midfield out and also we often struggle to break sides down and kill teams off.

All in all, our football is improving (it's about time tbh).
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#3 MikeO

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Posted 08 Mar 2010 - 19:21

Appreciate you taking the time out to post that DG.....nice one :) .

Stark contrast to an abject performance at Hull about three and a half months ago after which we were level with them on points and only had one win in ten :( .

'Asked if his team was too good to go down, Moyes was far from bullish. "I don’t know," he said.'
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#4 toffeeblue

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Posted 08 Mar 2010 - 20:32

Hi Guys,

Derby County fan here, so consider this a random, neutral view....

I have to admit that Everton have always been one of those teams that never caught my imagination as a layman.

You know the drill, you fancy a casual watch of football on TV and check what's on, "Fulham vs Birmingham".... no thanks. Everton used to fall into that bracket for me. Not any more.

There I was, yesterday, hungover and looking for diversion. I slept through most of Reading vs Villa and then thought I'd give your match a go.

Blimey. I know it was Hull (Awful), but you guys ripped them to shreds. Apart from the pre half-time wobble, the attacking football being played was superb and as good as, if not better than, anything I've seen all season. If Yakuba was firing properly, you may even have got to double figures, it was that comprehensive a performance.

Obviously great results against Chelsea and Man Utd, but I'd say it was yesterday when I really sat up and took notice of Everton. Arteta was great (his wife is stunning), Heiteger was solid and Donovan seemed very useful. However, the two players that really caught my eye were Pienaar and Neville. More shocks, as I never really understood what Pienaar was for and, as you know, most people automatically dimiss Neville as the grey man. Neville's performance was one of the tidiest I've seen in a long time from a full back, he never seems to waste the ball. Very impressive.

Taking all into account, Moyes has to be one of the best managers that the game has seen in years.

I know you've had issues with injuries and a shocking start to the season, but how have your performances compared to yesterday? Was it a flash-in-the-pan one-off? Or is this how your side is developing? If it is a sign of things to come, then it must be good to be an Everton supporter.

At the risk of starting to sound like a gushing Bill Kenwright (remember that?), I'll end with a thank you for diluting my hangover misery somewhat and good luck wishes for your push for fourth place. Tough objective but you never know.

I await your next TV appearance with interest!

Remember, Derby County, so I do have some recent Premiership Pedigree.......

DG


You was going along great until you mention our right back. A full back normally tackles a winger and not stand off him. He is our major weak link and the sooner he gets out of the side the better for us
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#5 CraccerC

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 18:38

You was going along great until you mention our right back. A full back normally tackles a winger and not stand off him. He is our major weak link and the sooner he gets out of the side the better for us


disagree...great leader and a good player to have on the pitch.

all in all though, we played some lovely football against united and beat them, arsenal we played quite well too. against city is the performance that stands out for me though, totally ran the show (fellaini in particular). when we have pienaar and arteta in the same side we generally play good football, arteta's the main difference i think really, he comes deep and stops as much hoofing.
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#6 toffeeblue

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 19:07

disagree...great leader and a good player to have on the pitch.

all in all though, we played some lovely football against united and beat them, arsenal we played quite well too. against city is the performance that stands out for me though, totally ran the show (fellaini in particular). when we have pienaar and arteta in the same side we generally play good football, arteta's the main difference i think really, he comes deep and stops as much hoofing.


Do you know what a leader does? It certainly isnt what Neville does. He is 1 of the worst players in recent memory to pull the Royal Blue on and its a disgrace to past capts that he wears the armband
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#7 bluenoseyankee

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 19:27

Do you know what a leader does? It certainly isnt what Neville does. He is 1 of the worst players in recent memory to pull the Royal Blue on and its a disgrace to past capts that he wears the armband

You're mad. Neville is loads better than Hibbert, VDM, Jo, Castillo, Neill and those have just been with us in the last 2 years. Get a clue. Neville obviously knows how to lead out boys despite not being the best footballer; look at the difference in our form with Nev out vs with him on the pitch, he makes an impact.
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#8 toffeeblue

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 19:36

You're mad. Neville is loads better than Hibbert, VDM, Jo, Castillo, Neill and those have just been with us in the last 2 years. Get a clue. Neville obviously knows how to lead out boys despite not being the best footballer; look at the difference in our form with Nev out vs with him on the pitch, he makes an impact.


Utter utter rubbish. He brings nothing to the table both as a footballer or as a so called leader
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#9 bluenoseyankee

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 19:40

Really? You really think that? You may need to get your head checked. Sure he's not a great player, but no one has ever said that. The fact is that he is a great leader, motivator and to some extent an organizer. Our play when he was injured was formless and actually worse than it was at the very beginning of the season. As soon as he was back, we started playing with shape again and a more drive and will.
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#10 Ian C

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 20:41

Utter utter rubbish. He brings nothing to the table both as a footballer or as a so called leader



Total wind-up merchant.

Phil Neville is a fantastic leader, as stated by every Everton player in every interview they are asked about him, and in a good few in which they are not asked.

Edited by Grarghsies, 09 Mar 2010 - 20:41.

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#11 CraccerC

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Posted 09 Mar 2010 - 23:19

Total wind-up merchant.

Phil Neville is a fantastic leader, as stated by every Everton player in every interview they are asked about him, and in a good few in which they are not asked.


agreed, total WUM
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#12 marcopaulo

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 00:26

are we allowed to chuck in a few more words??
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#13 BrotherEstapol

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 04:37

agreed, total WUM

The only bad thing I've heard about Neville by the players is that he dresses like a 50 year old. :P
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#14 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 10:10

Really? You really think that? You may need to get your head checked. Sure he's not a great player, but no one has ever said that. The fact is that he is a great leader, motivator and to some extent an organizer. Our play when he was injured was formless and actually worse than it was at the very beginning of the season. As soon as he was back, we started playing with shape again and a more drive and will.


Our play when he was injured was because virtually every player was playing out of position. Cahill on left wing, Hibbo at left back...etc etc. It was when Pienaar came back we looked a team again.
Of course Nevilles leadership were in full display for the Liverpool and Chelsea goals!
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#15 marcopaulo

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 10:58

what he made a mistake against chelsea?!??! get rid of him then!!! also he didn't out jump kuyt to stop that goal when howard went running off for a brew whilst they scored! you're just trying to do a milky now and annoy everyone...best captain we have had since dave watson for me!!
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#16 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 11:04

what he made a mistake against chelsea?!??! get rid of him then!!! also he didn't out jump kuyt to stop that goal when howard went running off for a brew whilst they scored! you're just trying to do a milky now and annoy everyone...best captain we have had since dave watson for me!!


Doesnt tackle,
Backs off too much
Is useless waste of space.

You do know a capt is supposed to lead by example dont you? You know like Waggy? A capt isnt someone who can just point and give the occasional boring soundbite (Which neville loves!) in the press.
A capt should be 1 of the 1st names on the teamsheet, Neville would be lucky to get in our squad never mind the 1st team
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#17 marcopaulo

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 12:16

what about saving a certain goal with rooney then against united when it was 1-1? im sure he tackled then :blink:

when he came off the subs bench against burnley after coming back from injury we were playing terrible and then he came on calmed everyone down and we ended up winning 2-0...that's what a captain does he just puts confidence into people and proved it that day with just a half hour on the pitch! i think you just want a steven gerrad who will hit a 30 yarder in the last minute when we really need it...not everyone has one!
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#18 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 12:27

what about saving a certain goal with rooney then against united when it was 1-1? im sure he tackled then :blink:

when he came off the subs bench against burnley after coming back from injury we were playing terrible and then he came on calmed everyone down and we ended up winning 2-0...that's what a captain does he just puts confidence into people and proved it that day with just a half hour on the pitch! i think you just want a steven gerrad who will hit a 30 yarder in the last minute when we really need it...not everyone has one!


Lol your funny mate.

Dont remember Waggy ever hitting a 30yder, yet i would take him in a heart beat. Majority of our Capts have been defenders, Waggy, Goughy, Weir, Labone.
These are all players who offered something to the team as a whole and not be the weakest link in the side. Neville only gets in because of the armband he wears and not on skill.
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#19 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 14:24

Doesnt tackle,
Backs off too much
Is useless waste of space.

You do know a capt is supposed to lead by example dont you? You know like Waggy? A capt isnt someone who can just point and give the occasional boring soundbite (Which neville loves!) in the press.
A capt should be 1 of the 1st names on the teamsheet, Neville would be lucky to get in our squad never mind the 1st team



Lol I think you are the only waste of space around here
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#20 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 14:25

Lol I think you are the only waste of space around here


Lol, oh dear

Edited by toffeeblue, 10 Mar 2010 - 14:26.

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#21 adz09

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 15:18

haha, this was never going to take long to esculate. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is different to the majority.
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#22 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 16:44

haha, this was never going to take long to esculate. Everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is different to the majority.


Didnt you know mate, your not allowed your own opinion on footy forums. You have to be a sheep and follow the flock.....baa baa
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#23 Blue 250

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 18:57

Lol your funny mate.

Dont remember Waggy ever hitting a 30yder, yet i would take him in a heart beat. Majority of our Capts have been defenders, Waggy, Goughy, Weir, Labone.
These are all players who offered something to the team as a whole and not be the weakest link in the side. Neville only gets in because of the armband he wears and not on skill.


What!.....How the hell could you leave out our most successful captain, and yes another defender....Ratcliffe!

Let's be honest, Neville is helped in his quest for a first team place mainly due to the fact that his competition is Hibbert and a inexperienced Colman.

Imagine we had a fully fit right back in brilliant form and all our midfielders were also fit and on form...Neville is really going to struggle to get a game.

No one is saying that Phil Neville is a great player, he's getting games because of cicumstance, he's probably as good a captain as any present Everton player in the squad
and that's obviously in his favour.
I don't think any member of this forum is trying to make a case for Neville being thought of as one of our more important/better players.....but it's an insult to Neville to call him a "useless waste of space", he's not our best, but he's not a useless waste
of space.
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#24 toffeeblue

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 19:16

What!.....How the hell could you leave out our most successful captain, and yes another defender....Ratcliffe!

Let's be honest, Neville is helped in his quest for a first team place mainly due to the fact that his competition is Hibbert and a inexperienced Colman.

Imagine we had a fully fit right back in brilliant form and all our midfielders were also fit and on form...Neville is really going to struggle to get a game.

No one is saying that Phil Neville is a great player, he's getting games because of cicumstance, he's probably as good a captain as any present Everton player in the squad
and that's obviously in his favour.
I don't think any member of this forum is trying to make a case for Neville being thought of as one of our more important/better players.....but it's an insult to Neville to call him a "useless waste of space", he's not our best, but he's not a useless waste
of space.


Its actually a compliment to call him a footballer, he is that bad. He is a disgrace to the shirt and an embarrassment to past captains. People get easily convinced by the fact he has won a couple of medals at United (not a major influence in any of there medals) and because of the lovely (if boring, tedious and predictable is what you call lovely) soundbites he makes in the media.
Where it matters most, on the pitch, he is the weakest link. To coin Anne Robinson, Neville you are the weakest link, now do one
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#25 Blue 250

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 21:51

Ok!....You seem to hate Neville! and his ex Man Utd background...typical red

You hate little Ossie, product of Evertons youth system....typical red.

You didn't mention Ratcliffe as a past captain...the most successful Everton captain...and hated most by...reds.


You/milky couldn't bear to mention Moyes getting 4th spot.....red!

You/milky seem to like winding people up for no reason....red.

You/milky moan about a quiet forum!

You/milky.....run back to rafa, and his sinking ship!
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#26 marcopaulo

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Posted 10 Mar 2010 - 22:40

agreed

Edited by marcopaulo, 11 Mar 2010 - 00:35.

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#27 toffeeblue

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 10:15

Ok!....You seem to hate Neville! and his ex Man Utd background...typical red

You hate little Ossie, product of Evertons youth system....typical red.

You didn't mention Ratcliffe as a past captain...the most successful Everton captain...and hated most by...reds.


You/milky couldn't bear to mention Moyes getting 4th spot.....red!

You/milky seem to like winding people up for no reason....red.

You/milky moan about a quiet forum!

You/milky.....run back to rafa, and his sinking ship!


I hate Neville because he is an embarrassment to the club
Never once said i hate Ossie, i said he is a saleable assest who IF was sold would not damage the 1st team too much, can you deny that?
Never mentioned loads of Capts lad, what the hell does that prove?

As for the rest your talking out where the sun dont shine, i mentioned it was a quiet forum because people were actually posting and as a new member i have noticed it isnt the busiest forum in the world then a admin decides to call time on it for no other reason than he doesnt like it.

Been to more Everton games than you have had hot dinners lad, so run away and hide behind mommy
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#28 Matt

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 10:51

ok. to sum up, Pip isnt a great player but he is a very good leader, this is the general view of everyone except the headcase. I personally think he is too slow and too defensive minded but i dont doubt his commitment and ive come to accept that we are a better squad with him, playing or not. He always gives 100%. Like you tried to argue against Ossie (which i ignored because your reply was again stupid) that any player can give 100%. This is completely true. One difference for Pip and Ossie - they DO give 100%, as do most of the squad. Potential and actual, 2 very different things.

I think people forget that the games after he first got injured back in september, we won the next 5 games, scored 14 goals and conceeded 1 before we started to fall apart (which was around the time when Peanuts got injured). in fact, we only won 1 game (shaky performance at BATE) after that and for 7 games were in free fall until Nev came back. it was Pienaar we were missing on the pitch not Pip. BUT. Pip was on the sidelines like a second manager, shouting and instructing as if he was on the pitch, trying to get the patchwork team to work together. Things couldve been even worse without his influence, they certainly wouldnt have been better if he wasnt there.

To say Pip doesnt tackle is also stupid (im seeing a theme in your opinions here, going to have to get a theasaurus soon to find another word that fits so well). What about THAT tackle, which some say sparked the team into climbing up the league to get 5th? 1 thing ive always admired about him is that he is fearless and never backs out of a challenge.

Backs off too much? Will give you that one but i personally think its him being aware lack of pace and not knowing how to deal with it. This would fall under the "we know he isnt the greatest player part". Guess what, no player is perfect.

Useless waste of space? Errrr, no. there are better players for RB in the league but not in our team. To write him off like that is again stupid.

Im going to quote myself here, something i said to Milky when he was spouting crap and moaning when people had a go at him, not respecting his opinion blah blah fuckin blah:

"I was failed on so many exams because i gave my opinion when i asked. Truth is, opinions are only worth anything when theyre backed up, something i know i didnt do because i couldnt be arsed revising or doing my homework. Something youre also not doing, or if you are, youre not doing a good job of explaining yourself... "

offensive, shortsighted and down right stupid i think i said to your last pile of tripe? I stand by it....
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#29 toffeeblue

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 11:12

ok. to sum up, Pip isnt a great player but he is a very good leader, this is the general view of everyone except the headcase. I personally think he is too slow and too defensive minded but i dont doubt his commitment and ive come to accept that we are a better squad with him, playing or not. He always gives 100%. Like you tried to argue against Ossie (which i ignored because your reply was again stupid) that any player can give 100%. This is completely true. One difference for Pip and Ossie - they DO give 100%, as do most of the squad. Potential and actual, 2 very different things.

I think people forget that the games after he first got injured back in september, we won the next 5 games, scored 14 goals and conceeded 1 before we started to fall apart (which was around the time when Peanuts got injured). in fact, we only won 1 game (shaky performance at BATE) after that and for 7 games were in free fall until Nev came back. it was Pienaar we were missing on the pitch not Pip. BUT. Pip was on the sidelines like a second manager, shouting and instructing as if he was on the pitch, trying to get the patchwork team to work together. Things couldve been even worse without his influence, they certainly wouldnt have been better if he wasnt there.

To say Pip doesnt tackle is also stupid (im seeing a theme in your opinions here, going to have to get a theasaurus soon to find another word that fits so well). What about THAT tackle, which some say sparked the team into climbing up the league to get 5th? 1 thing ive always admired about him is that he is fearless and never backs out of a challenge.

Backs off too much? Will give you that one but i personally think its him being aware lack of pace and not knowing how to deal with it. This would fall under the "we know he isnt the greatest player part". Guess what, no player is perfect.

Useless waste of space? Errrr, no. there are better players for RB in the league but not in our team. To write him off like that is again stupid.

Im going to quote myself here, something i said to Milky when he was spouting crap and moaning when people had a go at him, not respecting his opinion blah blah fuckin blah:

"I was failed on so many exams because i gave my opinion when i asked. Truth is, opinions are only worth anything when theyre backed up, something i know i didnt do because i couldnt be arsed revising or doing my homework. Something youre also not doing, or if you are, youre not doing a good job of explaining yourself... "

offensive, shortsighted and down right stupid i think i said to your last pile of tripe? I stand by it....


Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! So many holes in this post, where to start.

1) A great leader - You really need to define this and also look up the word leader as you dont seem to understand it. As for only head cases not knowing this, then there must be plenty of Everton head cases about then! People who are NOT taken in by the tedious daily media soundbites coming out of his boring monotonous voice.

2) Giving 100% - I challenge you to find any in our squad who dont give there all to the cause, with that being the case, highlighting this for 2 particular players doesnt hold any sway.

3) Pienaar - So your agreeing with me? As for Neville being the 2nd manager, behave yourself. You cant prove this b/s and thats exactly what it is...bull! Its just another ludricous arguement from a Neville sympthasiser, do we not need Round anymore? Has Super Nev with no coaching experience taken his role over? Are you on something?

4) Pips Tackling - Can we please stop talking about 1 tackle, after the whistle was blown by the way. You watch any game you choose and he backs off and backs off and lets the player get a cross in. His tackling and his defending are easily the worst element.

5) Useless waste of space - I will stand by that, he offers nothing to the side as a footballer (something which can actually be seen as opposed to the fictional leadership you like to offer). As a defender, Hibbo is a much better tackler rarely gets beaten and going forward young Coleman has the legs and energy on Neville. So take your pick of Coleman or Hibbo, its not Neville!

6) Opinions - I have backed everything up with FACTS, you have simply spouted the same rubbish Neville lovers have been talking about since he joined, change the record!
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#30 Churinga2

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 11:46

6) Opinions - I have backed everything up with FACTS, you have simply spouted the same rubbish Neville lovers have been talking about since he joined, change the record!


I struggle to find any facts in your posts, unlees you call the following stuff facts

Doesnt tackle,
Backs off too much
Is useless waste of space.


I hate Neville because he is an embarrassment to the club

Been to more Everton games than you have had hot dinners lad

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#31 Blue 250

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 11:51

I hate Neville because he is an embarrassment to the club
Never once said i hate Ossie, i said he is a saleable assest who IF was sold would not damage the 1st team too much, can you deny that?
Never mentioned loads of Capts lad, what the hell does that prove?

As for the rest your talking out where the sun dont shine, i mentioned it was a quiet forum because people were actually posting and as a new member i have noticed it isnt the busiest forum in the world then a admin decides to call time on it for no other reason than he doesnt like it.

Been to more Everton games than you have had hot dinners lad, so run away and hide behind mommy


Neville is plenty of things!....but an embarrassment to the club!.. :blink:

Been to lots of Everton games!....big deal, you obviously didn't learn anything.
So many games infact, oh except the ones Where Ratcliffe was captain :lol:

Guess your on here because red forums are pretty sad places at the moment.....run back to rafa :gay:
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#32 Matt

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 12:07

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! So many holes in this post, where to start.

1) A great leader - You really need to define this and also look up the word leader as you dont seem to understand it. As for only head cases not knowing this, then there must be plenty of Everton head cases about then! People who are NOT taken in by the tedious daily media soundbites coming out of his boring monotonous voice.

2) Giving 100% - I challenge you to find any in our squad who dont give there all to the cause, with that being the case, highlighting this for 2 particular players doesnt hold any sway.

3) Pienaar - So your agreeing with me? As for Neville being the 2nd manager, behave yourself. You cant prove this b/s and thats exactly what it is...bull! Its just another ludricous arguement from a Neville sympthasiser, do we not need Round anymore? Has Super Nev with no coaching experience taken his role over? Are you on something?

4) Pips Tackling - Can we please stop talking about 1 tackle, after the whistle was blown by the way. You watch any game you choose and he backs off and backs off and lets the player get a cross in. His tackling and his defending are easily the worst element.

5) Useless waste of space - I will stand by that, he offers nothing to the side as a footballer (something which can actually be seen as opposed to the fictional leadership you like to offer). As a defender, Hibbo is a much better tackler rarely gets beaten and going forward young Coleman has the legs and energy on Neville. So take your pick of Coleman or Hibbo, its not Neville!

6) Opinions - I have backed everything up with FACTS, you have simply spouted the same rubbish Neville lovers have been talking about since he joined, change the record!

right.... cant believe im giving you the time but its only 10 mins to go for lunch.

1. "Lead·er –noun
- a person or thing that leads.
- a guiding or directing head "

This is how i understand it, this is what Pip is best at. Go argue with the people who wrote the dictionary.

2. ok... Yak (even before his injury). Wow, that was hard. Even Billy looks a little disinterested, but its only his 1st season so im waiting to see how he does next year. Oh, and think you will find i added at the end of the sentence "as do most of the squad". Highlighted these 2 in particular as theyre subjects in this topic. Next....

3. Yes i agree, it was Pienaar we missed not Pip on the pitch. Neville was still there shouting his head off on the edge of the technical area. Or maybe the TV people superimposed him there for fun. For someone who has been to more games than someone else has had hot dinners, thought you mightve spotted that.... Didnt mention Round, why are you? Irrelevent contribution

4. Oh no! evidence against your arguement! Heaven forbid! I think you and everyone else agree: not the best player, he has flaws. Who is better in that position that we have? Coleman? yes deserves a chance, but give him a preseason and we will see next year. We need a proven player who has played EPL and European for the final haul. Hibbert is injured. Waiting for your crazy comment saying youd rather have an injured Hibbo than Neville....

5. Stand by it then. In my opinion, and many others, youre wrong. I am trying to back my arguements up with actual fact. Your opinions are backed up with... your opinions! not actual fact. try again.

6. where? give me 1 fact. Just an example of you talking nonsense, you started quoting past captains and when it was pointed out that Radcliffe was missed out you said you hadnt started mentioning captains:

YOU:

Dont remember Waggy ever hitting a 30yder, yet i would take him in a heart beat. Majority of our Capts have been defenders, Waggy, Goughy, Weir, Labone.


What!.....How the hell could you leave out our most successful captain, and yes another defender....Ratcliffe!


YOU:

Never mentioned loads of Capts lad, what the hell does that prove?

care to explain the sudden amnesia or are you talking out your backside?

Wouldve thought it was obvoious reading back through what i wrote, im not a Neville lover (even agreed with you on some points) but ive come to accept he is an important part of the squad and club. an embaressement to the club? wow. im not wasting anymore time on you. You label me a Neville lover without reason and ignoring what im saying, fine. You are a Neville hater (dont make me quote you again) and wont take heed of any evidence or arguement so there is no point in carrying on....
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#33 Matt

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 12:12

oh, and thanks to the original Derby fan for the post, just wait until we've got a 100% fit team! Hope things pick up for your lot!
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#34 nogs

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    Trevor Steven

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 13:23

If I'm honest i'vealways thought Pip is an aberration at centre mid, his touch and distribution of the ball along the deck is poor by premier league standards, he lacks vision, pace and skill. That said, i think he's a pretty decent defender, I mean for christ's sake, he played 263 times for ferguson at Utd and has been capped 59 times for England, mainly playing a full-back - you just do not have that kind of career if you're a 'waste of space', his tackling, tenacity, commitment and reading of the game are his great strengths. He can also occasionally ping in a deadly cross from out wide, much better than Hibbo ever manages anyway. And although i used to dread seeing him being named as the DM in our side, I did gradually come round to realising that, in a young side with few obvious leaders, he has played an absolutely pivotal role in our development over the past couple of years, because he is a natural leader, he does inspire confidence in those around us, he has experience playing at the highest level, and he's got that competitive edge to his personality you need as a captain.

That said, I think it's time to say thank you and let him take more of a back seat role now - he's 33, we need to improve again next season if we're going to make a serious assault on the top four and I think we need someone at RB who can offer more going forward. I'm hoping Coleman will push on and stake a claim for next season, but more importantly, I think we now have a ready-made replacement captain in Jags. I think Pip should still be club captain, i think he can do a job as a squad player, and I would love to see him do his coaching badges working for us because he is someone Moyes clearly trusts and likes working with. But i agree, I don't think he should be in a first choice XI next season.
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#35 iggy

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    Trevor Steven

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 13:29

If I'm honest i'vealways thought Pip is an aberration at centre mid, his touch and distribution of the ball along the deck is poor by premier league standards, he lacks vision, pace and skill. That said, i think he's a pretty decent defender, I mean for christ's sake, he played 263 times for ferguson at Utd and has been capped 59 times for England, mainly playing a full-back - you just do not have that kind of career if you're a 'waste of space', his tackling, tenacity, commitment and reading of the game are his great strengths. He can also occasionally ping in a deadly cross from out wide, much better than Hibbo ever manages anyway. And although i used to dread seeing him being named as the DM in our side, I did gradually come round to realising that, in a young side with few obvious leaders, he has played an absolutely pivotal role in our development over the past couple of years, because he is a natural leader, he does inspire confidence in those around us, he has experience playing at the highest level, and he's got that competitive edge to his personality you need as a captain.

That said, I think it's time to say thank you and let him take more of a back seat role now - he's 33, we need to improve again next season if we're going to make a serious assault on the top four and I think we need someone at RB who can offer more going forward. I'm hoping Coleman will push on and stake a claim for next season, but more importantly, I think we now have a ready-made replacement captain in Jags. I think Pip should still be club captain, i think he can do a job as a squad player, and I would love to see him do his coaching badges working for us because he is someone Moyes clearly trusts and likes working with. But i agree, I don't think he should be in a first choice XI next season.


Perfick!
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#36 Matt

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Posted 11 Mar 2010 - 13:57

If I'm honest i'vealways thought Pip is an aberration at centre mid, his touch and distribution of the ball along the deck is poor by premier league standards, he lacks vision, pace and skill. That said, i think he's a pretty decent defender, I mean for christ's sake, he played 263 times for ferguson at Utd and has been capped 59 times for England, mainly playing a full-back - you just do not have that kind of career if you're a 'waste of space', his tackling, tenacity, commitment and reading of the game are his great strengths. He can also occasionally ping in a deadly cross from out wide, much better than Hibbo ever manages anyway. And although i used to dread seeing him being named as the DM in our side, I did gradually come round to realising that, in a young side with few obvious leaders, he has played an absolutely pivotal role in our development over the past couple of years, because he is a natural leader, he does inspire confidence in those around us, he has experience playing at the highest level, and he's got that competitive edge to his personality you need as a captain.

That said, I think it's time to say thank you and let him take more of a back seat role now - he's 33, we need to improve again next season if we're going to make a serious assault on the top four and I think we need someone at RB who can offer more going forward. I'm hoping Coleman will push on and stake a claim for next season, but more importantly, I think we now have a ready-made replacement captain in Jags. I think Pip should still be club captain, i think he can do a job as a squad player, and I would love to see him do his coaching badges working for us because he is someone Moyes clearly trusts and likes working with. But i agree, I don't think he should be in a first choice XI next season.

nail on the head. good man...
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