**The Vaults**

[GoodisonRoad]

 

 

I don't that its just Lukaku so in all honesty Mcgeadys performances are not Rom dependant. I've said elsewhere its his own fitness and sharpness which will improve over this season.

 

What is Roms fault:-

 

• Passes bouncing off him
• Play breaking down because he can't hold on to the ball
• Passes played to opponents
• Not making the right runs
• Lazyness

 

 

I know you dont, but thats what blueboy was suggesting.

 

I agree with the majority there of what you consider Roms faults. I just think where we disagree on this is that i believe he can improve and you dont.

 

Like i said, been done to death so i wont bore people.

[Guest blueboy122]

 

McGeady's shit = Lukaku's fault

 

Teams shite against Sunderland = Lukaku's fault

 

Win 3-0 against Lille, why wasnt it 4-0? = Lukaku's fault

 

Global warming = Lukaku's fault

 

Recession = Lukaku's Fault

 

 

Honestly bored of the Lukaku arguement now and its been done to death but to suggest McGeady's Ineffectivness is down to him as well is just bollocks.

I don't think Mcgeady is shit.

 

Team was shite against Sunderland, Mcgeady was one of the better players. Rom one of the worst, our attacks broke down time after time because of him.

 

The rest your talking bollocks although there could be recession for Everton if he doesn't start banging them in and start performing.

 

Where have I suggested that Mcgeady is ineffective? He is very effective unfortunately it's our strikers who aren't effective at the moment.

[Guest blueboy122]

We do have a forward who can get into the box. Unfortunately he is being asked to be a hold-up player whilst others join the attack, the job of an AMC. That goes for all of our strikers, whoever is leading the line; all are expected to hold the ball up and link up play rather than do their actual job, which is to be in the box to score. They cannot do both jobs at the same time.

The problem is he isn't doing either at the moment.

 

The modern day striker has to have more to his game than just tap it in from 6 yards.

 

To hold up and link play is part of the strikers job.

 

Like saying a policeman's job is solely to make arrests. What about other aspects of the job? Probably a shit analogy but can you see the point?

 

Haf give me an analogy!

[Guest blueboy122]

Me and Haf have argued Rom to death.

 

But for me and I think Haf would rather have a striker who scores 12-15 goals a season and can actually play, help the team out, hold the ball, give us a platform to attack etc rather than a striker who scores 15-20 goals who doesn't contribute anything and actually hinders are attacking play when he has the ball.

 

If Rom was playing well helping the team etc I wouldn't have an issue at all.

[Hafnia]

The problem is he isn't doing either at the moment.

 

The modern day striker has to have more to his game than just tap it in from 6 yards.

 

To hold up and link play is part of the strikers job.

 

Like saying a policeman's job is solely to make arrests. What about other aspects of the job? Probably a shit analogy but can you see the point?

 

Haf give me an analogy!

 

Its like a baker being brilliant at icing a cake but he keeps burning the sponge.

[Hafnia]

I stated Welbeck will have a good season for Arsenal and score more than Rom.... thats in the vault.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Hafnia

[Lowensda]

Me and Haf have argued Rom to death.

 

But for me and I think Haf would rather have a striker who scores 12-15 goals a season and can actually play, help the team out, hold the ball, give us a platform to attack etc rather than a striker who scores 15-20 goals who doesn't contribute anything and actually hinders are attacking play when he has the ball.

 

If Rom was playing well helping the team etc I wouldn't have an issue at all.

 

Like Kone? Oh wait...

[Hafnia]

 

Like Kone? Oh wait...

 

Good example, his last season for Wigan he scored 13 prem goals and was a vital link up player for the likes of Maloney who knew he could hit the ball to him and join the attack.

 

Pity he got injured. Not much you can do to predict that.

[GoodisonRoad]

I don't think Mcgeady is shit.

 

Team was shite against Sunderland, Mcgeady was one of the better players. Rom one of the worst, our attacks broke down time after time because of him.

 

The rest your talking bollocks although there could be recession for Everton if he doesn't start banging them in and start performing.

 

Where have I suggested that Mcgeady is ineffective? He is very effective unfortunately it's our strikers who aren't effective at the moment.

 

Okay you werent saying McGeady was shit, but you were trying to deflect the blame on to Rom as to why other people think he is.

 

I'll agree with you and give credit where its due, McGeady was our best player against Sunderland or he was certainly the one who looked like he was going to create something. But he has been shite for the vast majority of this season.

 

Roms got 4 in 10 in the league. Just under a goal every other game. Forgive the lack of concern regarding a "recession for Everton" on my half.

 

Cant believe im getting dragged into this again but i really dont understand some of our fans expecting some world class accomplished striker coming in when he signed. The idea was and always has been that we've signed a young prospect with a great goalscoring record already who is only going to get better. People are expecting way too much from this 21 year old kid! Haf pitting him against the Likes of Shearer, Costa, Dzeko and Giroud before is whats driving me up the f*cking wall! I'd love to have seen how they were when they were 21! nobody had heard of Giroud Dzeko or Costa until about 2-3 years a go! its a comical argument to be having.

 

we dont expect the same from Barkley, he's been shite the last couple of games and nobodys batted an eyelid whether its because he didnt cost us anything or because he's one of our own or what i dont know.

 

He's a striker, he's young and will fuck up and he's scoring goals (not as prolific as many of you would like apparently?) Honestly the critisism of him is way over the top. If he's shit, he's shit and i'll say it, he was awful last week. But some people on here only seem to want to give him stick and any appraisal is always through gritted teeth, there's very rarely any balance given to any Lukaku argument on here.

Edited November 12, 2014 by GoodisonRoad

[Matt]

The problem is he isn't doing either at the moment.

 

The modern day striker has to have more to his game than just tap it in from 6 yards.

 

To hold up and link play is part of the strikers job.

 

Like saying a policeman's job is solely to make arrests. What about other aspects of the job? Probably a shit analogy but can you see the point?

 

Haf give me an analogy!

Well, 1 in 2 ratio (more or less) in the league says he's doing one part of it.

 

He was brought in to score goals, he is doing that. There are clear areas where he needs to improve and these are being highlighted by asking him to play a role he is not accustomed too.

 

To keep your analogy... He was brought on to the force to be PC Plod - get the job done. Now he is expected to be a crack detective without being given the time or experience to do that job well.

 

He is not ready for it, the link up target man, he is too immature and needs more game time to learn (only 1 full season of playing regularly in the EPL) and until he has game time to work on it, he will never be. Haf, I know I've played the age card a thousand times, but if you keep comparing him to greats, make sure you compare him to the Alan Shearer at 21, Diego Costa of 21. I'll let you retort by ignoring that little detail of how important experience is to instead get digs in about the basics, which, as he showed in the Lille game and at times in the 1st half of the Sunderland game, he is more than capable of doing.

[Hafnia]

 

Okay you werent saying McGeady was shit, but you were trying to deflect the blame on to Rom as to why other people think he is.

 

I'll agree with you and give credit where its due, McGeady was our best player against Sunderland or he was certainly the one who looked like he was going to create something. But he has been shite for the vast majority of this season.

 

Roms got 4 in 10 in the league. Just under a goal every other game. Forgive the lack of concern regarding a "recession for Everton" on my half.

 

Cant believe im getting dragged into this again but i really dont understand some of our fans expecting some world class accomplished striker coming in when he signed. The idea was and always has been that we've signed a young prospect with a great goalscoring record already who is only going to get better. People are expecting way too much from this 21 year old kid! Haf pitting him against the Likes of Shearer, Costa, Dzeko and Giroud before is whats driving me up the f*cking wall! I'd love to have seen how they were when they were 21! nobody had heard of Giroud Dzeko or Costa until about 2-3 years a go! its a comical argument to be having.

 

we dont expect the same from Barkley, he's been shite the last couple of games and nobodys batted an eyelid whether its because he didnt cost us anything or because he's one of our own or what i dont know.

 

He's a striker, he's young and will fuck up and he's scoring goals (not as prolific as many of you would like apparently?) Honestly the critisism of him is way over the top. If he's shit, he's shit and i'll say it, he was awful last week. But some people on here only seem to want to give him stick and any appraisal is always through gritted teeth, there's very rarely any balance given to any Lukaku argument on here.

 

No I didn't. I said that a striker can hold up play and be a goal scoring threat and they are examples of players who can do it.

 

I can make the list go on and on if you would like - players who could drop, hold up the ball, lay it off and attack the box

 

Niall Quinn, Mark Hughes, Luca Toni, Klose, Berbatov - its not complicated, it doesn't require a 12km shift. It requires the player to be able to control a ball, use strength, lay the ball off and then get in the box. No dribbling, no acrobatics,

 

Given the size of Rom, why can't he do it? Its all very well making excuses for him and saying he runs onto balls etc, - no thats what he is used to doing. The fact is he has never been tested as a proper all round striker, being 8 inches taller and 4 stone heavier than your opponents through the development years has meant he's had it too easy to have to learn.

 

Do we accept that he will never become good at this part of his game? If we do then I suggest cashing in now and taking a bit of a hit on him.

[Guest blueboy122]

What me and Haf are trying to stress is..

 

We don't expect him to be a world class striker we expect him to be able to do the basics.

 

You don't have to be Alan Shearer, Diego Costa etc to be able to control the ball etc.

 

Listen I am desperate to be proven wrong but at the moment it's not looking good.

[Lowensda]

 

Good example, his last season for Wigan he scored 13 prem goals and was a vital link up player for the likes of Maloney who knew he could hit the ball to him and join the attack.

 

Pity he got injured. Not much you can do to predict that.

 

But you can say that about Lukaku.

 

If he was performing to the same level as last season (forgetting the fact he's had a broken toe for the last few months) would you be questioning his price?

 

And you use his "last season for Wigan" excuse. Brilliant. One good season in a struggling team where he's one of two players that actually has a pivotal role to play and i'd argue he only scored 13 goals. One job in a shite team.

 

It's like the Michu argument again. Said he was a one season wonder and noone believed me, Kone was EXACTLY the same. Shame he got injured but comparing Kone to Lukaku is f*cking ludicrous.

[Guest blueboy122]

Romelu has scored 4 in 11 by the way so it's nearer 1 in 3 than 1 in 2 but suppose the Rom lovers are clutching to any straws they can find.

 

I hope he can complete a 1:2 goal to game ratio I really do.

[Lowensda]

What me and Haf are trying to stress is..

 

We don't expect him to be a world class striker we expect him to be able to do the basics.

 

You don't have to be Alan Shearer, Diego Costa etc to be able to control the ball etc.

 

Listen I am desperate to be proven wrong but at the moment it's not looking good.

 

Which is the category McGeady is in. He on numerous occasions, has run into a man (surely manouvering your body around a player is also one of the basics), he over hits his own knock-ons, he's run it out of play a few times too. He's 28, Kone is 31? If Lukaku doesn't improve his touch in 7 years (minimum we can use to be fair) then Vault my ass to the moon. But until then, players like McGeady aren't even at a level we can compare Rom to.

 

I just don't get why Lukaku gets all the stick but players like McGeady and Kone are still getting away, scot free, when the arguments against Rom MOST definitely fall with those two players as well? That's what i don't understand.

[Guest blueboy122]

But you can say that about Lukaku.

 

If he was performing to the same level as last season (forgetting the fact he's had a broken toe for the last few months) would you be questioning his price?

 

And you use his "last season for Wigan" excuse. Brilliant. One good season in a struggling team where he's one of two players that actually has a pivotal role to play and i'd argue he only scored 13 goals. One job in a shite team.

 

It's like the Michu argument again. Said he was a one season wonder and noone believed me, Kone was EXACTLY the same. Shame he got injured but comparing Kone to Lukaku is f*cking ludicrous.

 

Justify Kone being a one season wonder?

 

He had an outstanding season at Wigan and then got injured?

 

So having an outstanding season and being a major part in everything that was good about Wigan's play that season is now a negative?

[Matt]

Romelu has scored 4 in 11 by the way so it's nearer 1 in 3 than 1 in 2 but suppose the Rom lovers are clutching to any straws they can find.

 

I hope he can complete a 1:2 goal to game ratio I really do.

Fair enough, 1 in 3 is shite....

 

He will get there. 100% fit, not doing the AMC role as much, just having more game time will make him better.

 

Just to add fuel to the fire, Eto'os ability to get in the box and score also suffered greatly trying to be link-up front man, despite all his experience and trickery with a ball. Why? Because he is nowhere near the goal. Tricky to score and add to an attack when you're dropping back to the halfway line to help out when he should be the outlet up the top of the field.

[GoodisonRoad]

 

No I didn't. I said that a striker can hold up play and be a goal scoring threat and they are examples of players who can do it.

 

I can make the list go on and on if you would like - players who could drop, hold up the ball, lay it off and attack the box

 

Niall Quinn, Mark Hughes, Luca Toni, Klose, Berbatov - its not complicated, it doesn't require a 12km shift. It requires the player to be able to control a ball, use strength, lay the ball off and then get in the box. No dribbling, no acrobatics,

 

Given the size of Rom, why can't he do it? Its all very well making excuses for him and saying he runs onto balls etc, - no thats what he is used to doing. The fact is he has never been tested as a proper all round striker, being 8 inches taller and 4 stone heavier than your opponents through the development years has meant he's had it too easy to have to learn.

 

Do we accept that he will never become good at this part of his game? If we do then I suggest cashing in now and taking a bit of a hit on him.

 

Are you serious!?

 

please make the list go on so you can continue to make a mokery of your own argument!

 

What do all those players have in common?! How old were they when people started to take notice of them? He's twenty fucking one Haf, Like i said i would love to see where that list of players you've mashed up were at when they were 21!

 

I'm done on this. Tired of trying to have a balanced argument with people who are desperate to see him fail.

[GoodisonRoad]

Romelu has scored 4 in 11 by the way so it's nearer 1 in 3 than 1 in 2 but suppose the Rom lovers are clutching to any straws they can find.

 

I hope he can complete a 1:2 goal to game ratio I really do.

 

Site i used was wrong then.

 

Rom lovers...love that. Its called "not being so short sighted" mate. Should try it.

[Guest blueboy122]

Which is the category McGeady is in. He on numerous occasions, has run into a man (surely manouvering your body around a player is also one of the basics), he over hits his own knock-ons, he's run it out of play a few times too. He's 28, Kone is 31? If Lukaku doesn't improve his touch in 7 years (minimum we can use to be fair) then Vault my ass to the moon. But until then, players like McGeady aren't even at a level we can compare Rom to.

 

I just don't get why Lukaku gets all the stick but players like McGeady and Kone are still getting away, scot free, when the arguments against Rom MOST definitely fall with those two players as well? That's what i don't understand.

 

Simple.

 

We paid £28M for Rom. He can't do the basics and people defend him.

 

Mcgeady is a very frustrating player and has not got away scott free at all he gets hounds of abuse on here.

 

Maybe it's Bobby we should be criticising for signing Rom and not actually Rom himself

[Guest blueboy122]

Site i used was wrong then.

 

Rom lovers...love that. Its called "not being so short sighted" mate. Should try it.

Try checking your facts?

 

 

Not about being short sighted about looking at the facts. You should try it as you like to fall back on one in two when it isn't.

[Guest blueboy122]

Site i used was wrong then.

 

Rom lovers...love that. Its called "not being so short sighted" mate. Should try it.

Site I used said he was a potential superstar. That site was also wrong.

 

Most of the time he is a clumsy elephant without a touch.

[Lowensda]

 

Niall Quinn - didn't see enough of him to comment

Mark Hughes - didn't see enough of him to comment

Luca Toni - Was 24 before he started showing any sort of glimpses of technicality, was a bit of a donkey to be fair

Klose - was 26 before he actually started games in the Bundesliga with Werder, before then was learning his trade in 2. Bundesliga

Berbatov - was 22 when he started playing well in a decent league (the Bundesliga) before that he was in Bulgaria and even then he 'touch' wasn't fantastic, he developed that with time.

 

I'll add one:

Mario Gomez - The German Harry Kane, knew where the box was but fuck me, his control was dire. Fantastic header of the ball, i'll give you that. Only started to appreciate his all round game at Bayern, before that, he was massively inconsistent (but scored)

 

 

But you won't give Rom time, so i'll leave it now.

 

p.s. he was SHITE in our last game, but he's still learning and we can forgive other players easily

[Lowensda]

 

What do all those players have in common?! How old were they when people started to take notice of them? He's twenty fucking one Haf, Like i said i would love to see where that list of players you've mashed up were at when they were 21!

 

Thank you. Was typing when you posted.

[GoodisonRoad]

Simple.

 

We paid £28M for Rom. He can't do the basics and people defend him.

 

Mcgeady is a very frustrating player and has not got away scott free at all he gets hounds of abuse on here.

 

Maybe it's Bobby we should be criticising for signing Rom and not actually Rom himself

 

Wonder if this bollocks would still be branded about if we'd paid £28m for Barkley and Rom had come through the academy? Just a thought....

Edited November 12, 2014 by GoodisonRoad

[Lowensda]

Justify Kone being a one season wonder?

 

He had an outstanding season at Wigan and then got injured?

 

So having an outstanding season and being a major part in everything that was good about Wigan's play that season is now a negative?

 

How would you like me to produce my case? Goals to game ratio? Level of ease (league) to score goals? Minutes played vs. chances created? Coversion rate?

 

Was James McCarthy. N'Zogbia did most of the work over the last few years at Wigan, pulled them right outta the shitta for two years running.

[Guest blueboy122]

Fair enough, 1 in 3 is shite....

 

He will get there. 100% fit, not doing the AMC role as much, just having more game time will make him better.

 

Just to add fuel to the fire, Eto'os ability to get in the box and score also suffered greatly trying to be link-up front man, despite all his experience and trickery with a ball. Why? Because he is nowhere near the goal. Tricky to score and add to an attack when you're dropping back to the halfway line to help out when he should be the outlet up the top of the field.

I hope so Matt.

 

I want to eat humble pie I really do.

 

I thought Eto played behind Rom to give him more of a chance I front of goal, to be played in front of him as you would say. We are having to play Eto behind Rom because Rom isn't good enough to be able to link play.

[Matt]

Simple.

 

We paid £28M for Rom. He can't do the basics and people defend him.

 

Mcgeady is a very frustrating player and has not got away scott free at all he gets hounds of abuse on here.

 

Maybe it's Bobby we should be criticising for signing Rom and not actually Rom himself

The price tag again?! The price tag has no impact or representation of the player or his ability. It is a transaction between clubs. That is all it ever was, is and will be.

[GoodisonRoad]

Try checking your facts?

 

 

Not about being short sighted about looking at the facts. You should try it as you like to fall back on one in two when it isn't.

 

So its my fault the site was wrong? grow up.

 

"looking at facts" is often a common symptom of "short sightedness"....i'd get yourself checked

Edited November 12, 2014 by GoodisonRoad

[Lowensda]

We could have paid £28m for Soldado. An experienced, european, top level pro, who captained his club? Would that have been a better buy?