Hafnia Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Had cards through and at the moment I'm voting out of Europe.Sick of that snake Cameron and the media machine scare mongering and not giving people unbiased news. The NHS will crumble, it's already wilting.Anyone put a poll up for me please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Sick of that snake Cameron and the media machine scare mongering and not giving people unbiased news. The out camp are doing exactly the same thing. Nobody really knows the consequences of leaving, even the campaigners are guessing. I'll vote to stay in purely for the reason I gave here... http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/27857-would-you-like-to-make-history/&do=findComment&comment=510346 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Stay in, because leaving is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Stay in, because leaving is stupid. Plus I could never vote for something being campaigned for by Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith and Farage/UKIP; I'd never be able to look at my face in the mirror again. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Plus I could never vote for something being campaigned for by Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith and Farage/UKIP; I'd never be able to look at my face in the mirror again. this is what I can't get my head around. How can anyone want to leave when you've got these greedy, selfish fuckwits campaigning for it? Good of the country?! Good for their own pockets and the pockets of the companies they protect and profit from. Only bad can come from this, not just for Britain but globally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 The problem of voting 'stay' is that the undemocratic elite that run the EU and oversee the mess that the euro has created, will see it as a justification that everything they have done is totally right and we will get more of it and at an increased rate. After several hundred years of 'going it alone' we now have a Prime Minister who doesn't think we can do it. As Del Boy says 'what a plonker'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) £50m a day goes to the euro fund from us, and were still not allowed to govern our own country. Edited May 22, 2016 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 £350m a day goes to the euro fund from us, and were still not allowed to govern our own country.That money comes back into the country though and finds its way to deprived areas rather than London. Liverpool would be a lot worse off with out the union. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Vote leave as staying is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 That money comes back into the country though and finds its way to deprived areas rather than London. Liverpool would be a lot worse off with out the union. As Matt has already pointed out.. http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/27857-would-you-like-to-make-history/&do=findComment&comment=511137 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Sorry I meant £350 a week ..... equal to I don't know how many Billions Pete, last year we got a rebate of £12m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 That money comes back into the country though and finds its way to deprived areas rather than London. Liverpool would be a lot worse off with out the union. Well 50% does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Sorry I meant £350 a week ..... equal to I don't know how many Billions Pete, last year we got a rebate of £12m. "The UK rebate is a financial mechanism which reduces the United Kingdom's contribution to the EU budget in effect since 1985. It is a complex calculation which equates to approximately 66% of the UK's net contribution - the amount paid by the UK into the EU budget less EU expenditure in the UK. Based on a net contribution of €12.1 billion (£9.8 billion) in 2014, the UK Treasury estimates the 2015 rebate amounted to €6.2 billion (£4.9 billion), reducing the ultimate UK contribution for the 2015 budget to €16.6 billion (£12.9 billion)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I will vote leave. Why? Well here is the thing, I am NOT concerned about businesses or finance to the nation, after all we did ok before we joined up. No my reason is simple and straightforward. Freedom of choice. I want to be free to vote for my choice of who rules us. Yes we may cock up, but that happens and we will survive it. But now we get a President of the EU, and we get EU rules and laws imposed on us. Some folks may like this idea (it is a free country after all (sic)) however I would rather pick and choose for myself rather than have a German/ French/whatever decision made on our behalf. All the other arguments mean nothing to me. Not even the for and against immigration ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) I have counted up the 'leave' posts and get 5 but only 2 votes for leaving in the poll? Edited May 22, 2016 by johnh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 "The UK rebate is a financial mechanism which reduces the United Kingdom's contribution to the EU budget in effect since 1985. It is a complex calculation which equates to approximately 66% of the UK's net contribution - the amount paid by the UK into the EU budget less EU expenditure in the UK. Based on a net contribution of €12.1 billion (£9.8 billion) in 2014, the UK Treasury estimates the 2015 rebate amounted to €6.2 billion (£4.9 billion), reducing the ultimate UK contribution for the 2015 budget to €16.6 billion (£12.9 billion)." The UK rebate was negotiated by Margaret Thatcher and largely given away by Blair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I have counted up the 'leave' posts and get 5 but only 2 votes for leaving in the poll? People can comment and not vote and vice-versa John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I have counted up the 'leave' posts and get 5 but only 2 votes for leaving in the poll? Sorry I didn't see the poll but I have corrected my input now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 The UK rebate was negotiated by Margaret Thatcher and largely given away by Blair. If it's still 66% of our contribution I don't think anyone can be accused of largely giving it away can they? It might have been reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 People can comment and not vote or vice-versa John. Or just not see the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Or just not see the poll. Indeed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 If it's still 66% of our contribution I don't think anyone can be accused of largely giving it away can they? It might have been reduced. The amount of rebate (from 2010) post Blair reduced by 40%. Not insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Or just not see the poll. Indeed . pair of B'stewards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I will vote leave. Why? Well here is the thing, I am NOT concerned about businesses or finance to the nation, after all we did ok before we joined up. No my reason is simple and straightforward. Freedom of choice. I want to be free to vote for my choice of who rules us. Yes we may cock up, but that happens and we will survive it. But now we get a President of the EU, and we get EU rules and laws imposed on us. Some folks may like this idea (it is a free country after all (sic)) however I would rather pick and choose for myself rather than have a German/ French/whatever decision made on our behalf. All the other arguments mean nothing to me. Not even the for and against immigration ones. So where do you draw the line? Do you want independence for Wales? Independence for Anglesey? Independence for the village where you live? Each of those would gradually give you a bigger say in who "rules" you. We could go back thousands of years and all be run by village elders! As I've said before; think the future of the World, and a safer World for my kids and grandkids, is better served by moving in the other direction. Pulling up the drawbridge and saying "We're considerably richer than you" would be a big step backwards imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Actually Mike I have no argument on the size of the grouping EU is ok in size and what it plans for the future and all that bumf, but why can I not vote for who is president? it is not democratic it is dictatorial. Just a thought though, I noticed when I am in here just a moment ago, I am with Bill, Johnh and MikeO. Made me suspect that age has an important effect on the voting. Not which way of course as I want out and Mike wants in. I was curious as to how important folks feel about the subject and the age they are at. Edited May 22, 2016 by Rubecula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Just a thought though, I noticed when I am in here just a moment ago, I am with Bill, Johnh and MikeO. Made me suspect that age has an important effect on the voting. Not which way of course as I want out and Mike wants in. I was curious as to how important folks feel about the subject and the age they are at. I think that's a good point/question (still the same four now). rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 American coming in peace lol When does the vote take place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 American coming in peace lol When does the vote take place? 23rd June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Actually Mike I have no argument on the size of the grouping EU is ok in size and what it plans for the future and all that bumf, but why can I not vote for who is president? it is not democratic it is dictatorial. There is no president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Had cards through and at the moment I'm voting out of Europe. Sick of that snake Cameron and the media machine scare mongering and not giving people unbiased news. The NHS will crumble, it's already wilting. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36353145 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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