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#281 pete0

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:18

 
The formation stiffled the players yesterday. I dont see how you can say they didnt play the ball fast enough in the first half, yet when they still played together in the second half it was fine? You need two sitting midfielders so that the full backs can get forward and create width and allowing the two wide forwards to get in and around the box. Home or away against good or bad teams, you cant just have 3 players defending. Who you play there is up for debate but in the big games it has to be Schneiderlin and Gana.
 

We were winning second half so there was less emphasis on getting the ball forward.

Every time Schneiderlin got the ball he moves it backwards with his right foot protecting the ball then looks for a pass that isn't on anymore as he just ruined the flow. Conversely look at how Rooney takes the ball, let's it run past him and puts his shoulders to goal allowing for first time passes and finding the runners.

Gana just lacks the ability going forward, doesn't have the brain to read the game quick enough or the ability to make the pass.

The formation didn't change, Keane was RB in the first half. We looked more balanced when we had a proper RB on however we were winning the players were more confident.
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#282 xsaint08

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:26

I can't see on what I've seen how Klaassen gets in the team ahead of Tom Davie's or Lookman.

The only reason i can think of is, Tom Davies and Lookman could have been seen as light weight players for a stoke game where there are big build bullies..

Probably Lookman should have been introduced at second half, when Stoke is tired and we can try to split their defences....having said that, Lookman, a great player and potential, but being young, he seems naive ,,, there are times when he should pass for others to score in the box, but his excitement takes him over and instead tried to score from tight angles and waste the chance...well, it comes with experience and yes he will grow into a great player in future...


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#283 AidanLewis

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:28

Did Schneiderlin ever played yesterday, I felt he was useless , rather rate him 0 /10 ... where Gana tried his best, he did not have much support. Rooney not his best, but still managed to string some clever passes (his exoerience speaks) ...and When martiana came in,  he looked one of our best players (that speaks of the overall performance), in fact, the midfield was hopeless yesterday... though its only the first game, at the same style, we can be ripped apart at other games and labelled as 200M mid table flops...


Yes he got the most combined tackles and interceptions this weekend (10).

He's still there doing what he does!
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#284 xsaint08

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:31

Yes he got the most combined tackles and interceptions this weekend (10).

He's still there doing what he does!

Schneiderlin ??? Guess i was not really concentrating then or maybe i was disappointed with his never ending back passes...... probably a sexy babe in the stand caught my attention...lol


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#285 AidanLewis

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:32

Schneiderlin ??? Guess i was not really concentrating then or maybe i was disappointed with his never ending back passes...... probably a sexy babe in the stand caught my attention...lol


I didn't notice him either,I only know that as I was looking at the stats on the PL app
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#286 xsaint08

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 09:35

I didn't notice him either,I only know that as I was looking at the stats on the PL app

 

I just felt he was far below par yesterday ..... overall the midfield was a joke...


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#287 pete0

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 10:29

 
I just felt he was far below par yesterday ..... overall the midfield was a joke...

He stopped more of our attacks than the whole Stoke team combined. Shouldn't been pulled at half time.
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#288 barryj

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 11:37

The only reason i can think of is, Tom Davies and Lookman could have been seen as light weight players for a stoke game where there are big build bullies..
Probably Lookman should have been introduced at second half, when Stoke is tired and we can try to split their defences....having said that, Lookman, a great player and potential, but being young, he seems naive ,,, there are times when he should pass for others to score in the box, but his excitement takes him over and instead tried to score from tight angles and waste the chance...well, it comes with experience and yes he will grow into a great player in future...


That's DCL all over as well.
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#289 c1982

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 14:12

I can't see on what I've seen how Klaassen gets in the team ahead of Tom Davie's or Lookman.


Watch Klaassen's part he plays in the goal. Think he'll do a lot of good work which goes under the radar e.g clever movement, quick one-twos, closing down/battling etc. Don't forget he created the most chances over the 2 Europa games. He looks a good fit for this league in my opinion.
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#290 c1982

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 14:15

Yep agreed 3 at the back is daft.

I've never actually liked it, even for the teams where it works with!


I think 3 at the back will be the best system when we've got another 'better suited' centre back in. We desperately lack natural wide men so this can actually help give us that width. I think we'll see it used a fair bit this season.
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#291 c1982

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 14:23

I wouldn't say we played 3 at the back today. Keane was a very unorthodox right back in the first half.


That's how I saw it - it was a flexible formation where Keane/DCL/Gueye filled the space on the right. I think we were targeting Stoke's weak link in Pieters (very poor player) but Stoke noticed this and covered him for the most part. He was actually more exposed in the 2nd half.

Stoke actually did the same tactic with Diouf at right wing back - maybe this is the new craze - right wing back target men?!
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#292 Patto

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 14:45

Watch Klaassen's part he plays in the goal. Think he'll do a lot of good work which goes under the radar e.g clever movement, quick one-twos, closing down/battling etc. Don't forget he created the most chances over the 2 Europa games. He looks a good fit for this league in my opinion.

I do hope your right and he comes good but for me Davie's is a better all round player.
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#293 Rubecula

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 14:53

I like arguments that start with A is better than B when both are Everton players,  at least we are not arguing about the worst players for once.


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#294 Finn balor

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 18:46

If we had to play three at the back we need a top drawer centre back and instead of Williams or jags wouldn't mind seeing besic in there. I'm not a big fan of the formation because baines isn't suited for that role any more. Our midfield has plenty of options now which is a good thing obviously so we can have a diamond or go 4-4-3 or other variations. After watching fridays match I would put a £30 mill bid in for vardy. He looked on fire
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#295 c1982

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 19:00

If we had to play three at the back we need a top drawer centre back and instead of Williams or jags wouldn't mind seeing besic in there. I'm not a big fan of the formation because baines isn't suited for that role any more. Our midfield has plenty of options now which is a good thing obviously so we can have a diamond or go 4-4-3 or other variations. After watching fridays match I would put a £30 mill bid in for vardy. He looked on fire


4-4-3 would be kamakaze!!! I know Pickford's good with his feet but playing with no keeper is just plain silly!

Edited by c1982, 13 Aug 2017 - 19:00.

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#296 Finn balor

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 19:02

Ha ha my bad
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#297 TOFFEEliscious

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 19:18

We were winning second half so there was less emphasis on getting the ball forward.

Every time Schneiderlin got the ball he moves it backwards with his right foot protecting the ball then looks for a pass that isn't on anymore as he just ruined the flow. Conversely look at how Rooney takes the ball, let's it run past him and puts his shoulders to goal allowing for first time passes and finding the runners.

Gana just lacks the ability going forward, doesn't have the brain to read the game quick enough or the ability to make the pass.

The formation didn't change, Keane was RB in the first half. We looked more balanced when we had a proper RB on however we were winning the players were more confident.

 

I'm surprised at some of the reactions to Gana on here, I thought he played some horrendously bad passes yesterday. 

 

It's like Schneiderlin and him are too similar and it's a waste to have both out there. Or they are both playing too similar of a role and it's squandered. Perhaps Schneiderlin needs to be the deepest and then Gana and Davies ahead. 

 

Not too worried about Klassen, as it was his first game. He comes from a  very offensive league. We're stacked at midfield so it will be interesting to see how it all fits. 


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#298 Bailey

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 19:34

I think Gana and Schneiderlin are completely different. Gana covers every blade, chases players down acts as a link to the attack, Schneiderlin sits deeper, controls the tempo of the game and occasionally drops into the back 4.
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#299 Shukes

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 20:16

I think Gana and Schneiderlin are completely different. Gana covers every blade, chases players down acts as a link to the attack, Schneiderlin sits deeper, controls the tempo of the game and occasionally drops into the back 4.


I think the same, it surprises me that so many people say they are the same player?
One relies on energy and tenacity, the other in technique and control.
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#300 markjazzbassist

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 20:27

I think Gana and Schneiderlin are completely different. Gana covers every blade, chases players down acts as a link to the attack, Schneiderlin sits deeper, controls the tempo of the game and occasionally drops into the back 4.


This for me too.
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#301 pete0

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Posted 13 Aug 2017 - 21:01

I think Gana and Schneiderlin are completely different. Gana covers every blade, chases players down acts as a link to the attack, Schneiderlin sits deeper, controls the tempo of the game and occasionally drops into the back 4.

Neither link up the play very well, and both have an adverse effect on the tempo. Schneiderlin is capable of a decent forward pass but his instinct/first touch is to protect the ball and in doing so he makes a forward pass near impossible to find. Gana is awful going forward, doesn't weight his passes, just hits in a general direction to the player without consideration of the opposition or whether it would be best to feet or in front of the man.
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#302 Cornish Steve

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Posted 14 Aug 2017 - 16:49

Watching highlights again while I ate lunch today, a couple of things hit me. First, we gave Stoke far too much space up-front and should have been far more decisive. It's difficult to say who is the culprit; I think it's more a matter of training and strategy. Better teams than Stoke would have scored more than once. Second, Rooney is so much better when he drops back. At that point, he becomes like a general, dictating the pace and direction of the game.


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#303 Matt

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Posted 14 Aug 2017 - 19:20

I think Gana and Schneiderlin are completely different. Gana covers every blade, chases players down acts as a link to the attack, Schneiderlin sits deeper, controls the tempo of the game and occasionally drops into the back 4.

yup
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#304 Rubecula

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Posted 15 Aug 2017 - 13:36


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#305 SpartyBlue

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Posted 15 Aug 2017 - 16:55

I do hope your right and he comes good but for me Davie's is a better all round player.

Very early to make any determinations on Klassen. Should be several weeks if not months until we can have a legitimate conversation on what sort of contribution he brings. 


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#306 MikeO

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Posted Yesterday, 04:22 pm

The more times I watch the goal the better it gets, superb team play!

 


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#307 TonkaRoost

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Posted Yesterday, 05:16 pm

Sandro's quick feet and Gueye's 1-2 passing with Rooney is excellent, and then the great movement by DCL and Rooney to create the goal and assist, respectively, is just perfect.  

 

I hope we see more of that type of play this season. Not a foot was put wrong during that build-up.


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#308 Shukes

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Posted Yesterday, 06:19 pm

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Sandro's quick feet and Gueye's 1-2 passing with Rooney is excellent, and then the great movement by DCL and Rooney to create the goal and assist, respectively, is just perfect.  
 
I hope we see more of that type of play this season. Not a foot was put wrong during that build-up.


Couldn't have been Gana that played the 1-2s, he's shit at going forward apparently haha.
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#309 markjazzbassist

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Posted Yesterday, 06:28 pm

notice the run of klaassen that clears the space for wayne.  drags the defender.  


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#310 Shukes

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Posted Yesterday, 06:41 pm

notice the run of klaassen that clears the space for wayne.  drags the defender.  


Much like Naismith used to do. That kind of work goes unoticed a lot as you dont get football manager stats for it.
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#311 Newty82

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Posted Today, 08:40 am

Much like Naismith used to do. That kind of work goes unoticed a lot as you dont get football manager stats for it.


Same with a lot of what Gana and Morgan do.
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