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#1 ooberman

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 09:44

Hey all - after watching Green Street the other day, I've been searching around (as I tend to do every couple of years when a new fascination emerges in me as to how and why hooliganism happens) - anyway, I found the website of Andy Nicholls - supposedly one of the most famous Everton thugs.

My question to you guys is, on his website in his Links page, along with links to some shady sites (one selling hooligan attire - 80s casuals) - he's also linked to Evertonfc.com

Don't you think the club should distance themselves from this sort of site and not allow him to link to our beloved club?

Opinions?
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#2 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 09:54

Agree with hooliganism or not Andy Nicholls is an Evertonian and if you read his book he feels the same passion for Everton as we do, has suffered the pains, enjoyed the highs and been there along with and in general alot more than most Evertonians.

Hooligans may be looked down on and they may enjoy a fight or 2 (with like minded people mind) but I would rather have gone the match with Andy Nicholls for 20 years than sat in the car with my grandad and collected programs to read on the way home for 20 years.

Yes the PC world we live in tells the clubs they must distance themselves from these people but all he is doing is inviting visitors to his site into the world of Everton football club, the peoples club and he is one of the people after all!

I say he is perfectly entitled to display his loyalty but society would proberbly disagree but this is the society that most people think is going crazy with political correctness at the moment!
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#3 ooberman

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 10:20

i agree with you that he may well love the club, but when you say he enjoys a fight with like-minded people - fair enough, but keep it to yourself then - he shouldn't be able to make money off the back of basically being a thug!!

i think the same thing about all the East End gangsters who go on tours telling people how great they were cos they "sorted out" the evils in society...

even that film "Buster" - remember that? about the great train robbery - basically glorified the acts of a bunch of criminals! Ronnie Biggs is almost heralded nowadays as a national hero!!

i just think it glorifies violence, and essentially says "it goes on, we know it goes on and we're not bothered about it" and by clubs not responding and saying "no links to our club/lifetime bans etc" it lets it all continue.

dunno, i sort of see what you mean Goldfish, i just find it a very interesting topic of discussion - and i don't know if you agree but in an ideal world football would be completely rid of the evil of hooliganism?!
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#4 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 10:28

Ever read any Hooligan books?
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#5 ooberman

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 11:08

Ever read any Hooligan books?

 


when i was at uni, one of my lecturers was a guy called Robin Manser - he's been no that real football factories programme - anyway, he's commissioned by Fifa to do studies into hooliganism (what a job!) - i've read some of his stuff, but apart from that no not much. you?
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#6 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 11:44

when i was at uni, one of my lecturers was a guy called Robin Manser - he's been no that real football factories programme - anyway, he's commissioned by Fifa to do studies into hooliganism (what a job!) - i've read some of his stuff, but apart from that no not much. you?

 


Read Scally, and books from the West Ham lads, Cardiff, Stoke, Manchester City, Aberdeen, several England books & a few by the Brimsom brothers from Watford who are full of shit IMO.

Academics commisioned by the FA or governments IMO all spout the same old shite and I am fully confident I could write a book to rival any of them if I wanted to waste my time.

I dont necessarily agree with hooliganism but after seeing it from the other side there are 2 types the club hooligans & national team hooligans. Club hooligans are lads like me who go the match and get caught up in something which gives them a bit of excitement & 98% of the day is about the crack with the lads rather than fighting. International hooligans seem like wankers from the books & documentries I have experienced.

Read scally it will give you a new insight and I would bet my morgage you laugh your tits off all the way through it! Trust me there are bits of violence but mostly realy funny stories and a few moments that make you proud, bring tears to your eyes & make you think "I wish I was there with them"!
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#7 ooberman

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 11:49

Read Scally, and books from the West Ham lads, Cardiff, Stoke, Manchester City, Aberdeen, several England books & a few by the Brimsom brothers from Watford who are full of shit IMO.

Academics commisioned by the FA or governments IMO all spout the same old shite and I am fully confident I could write a book to rival any of them if I wanted to waste my time.

I dont necessarily agree with hooliganism but after seeing it from the other side there are 2 types the club hooligans & national team hooligans. Club hooligans are lads like me who go the match and get caught up in something which gives them a bit of excitement & 98% of the day is about the crack with the lads rather than fighting. International hooligans seem like wankers from the books & documentries I have experienced.

Read scally it will give you a new insight and I would bet my morgage you laugh your tits off all the way through it! Trust me there are bits of violence but mostly realy funny stories and a few moments that make you proud, bring tears to your eyes & make you think "I wish I was there with them"!

 

i don't doubt for a second that's how i'd feel :lol: - even green street cracked me up in places and i was pretty much a shite film!!

i went to germany this summer by the way, saw NO trouble whatsoever but there were a number of complete and utter w@nkers - mostly west ham fans - they really get on my nerves....
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#8 Claire

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:04

How can anyone say that cos someone feels passion for something they have a right and its good that they act in a violent manner. Thats like saying terrorisms acceptable because they are doing it cos they are passionate about a cause. Hooligans give our game a bad name and have caused pain to many numbers of innocent people. A hooligan from the club I love after the Man United cup game the other year knocked my 85 year old grandad over cos he couldnt wait to get to a fight across the road. This in the process broke my grandads hip and left him very badly bruised. That hooligan is no more passionate than me or my grandad who both love Everton but dont feel the need to show that through mindless violence
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#9 bluegaz74

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:30

I'm reading Scally at the moment, and I'd have to say I don't agree with this Andy Nicholls 'passion for Everton'. OK, he's a supporter, but EFC is secondary to his passion for violence. The club is just an easy outlet to have an organised scrap. Although he may have travelled far and wide to support the blues, he never seemed to watch a great deal of football, which IMO is a main factor in what supporting the club is about.

I am enjoying the book, purely for the insight into a person and a way of life that I will never experience and some of the stories are amusing, but as has already been said, he is making money out of this - along with all the other books and programmes on the subject (note: danny dyer in 'the real football factories' - what a mockney t*sser). If this is the type of life he wanted to lead so be it, but he should keep it to himself, by putting it out there in print, he can never stop certain individuals being influenced by it and continuing the 'trend'.

I doubt a book like this is going to tarnish the reputation of EFC so much, but it certainly doesn't do the reputation of the city of Liverpool any favours either. If the stereotype of a tracksuit wearin' robber is a tag we are happy to be labelled with, this book ticks all the boxes.
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#10 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:30

Truely sorry about your Grandad but read back and you have changes the subject to suit your example!
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#11 Claire

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:36

Truely sorry about your Grandad but read back and you have changes the subject to suit your example!

 


No I havent Im against hooligans and people seeing football as a breeding ground for violence. People like this are targeting the sport we love and giving every single one of us a bad reputation. Its time thugs like this andy nicholls were either thrown in prison for a long time or made to look like the brainless maniacs they are
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#12 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:45

:rolleyes:

I feel this will get out of hand because of your Grandad and personal feelings clouding your judgement. The original question was should he be allowed to link to the Everton site and agree with or dispise hooliganism the simple fact is this is a free society and there are alot worse things that go on in this world.
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#13 Claire

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 12:51

:rolleyes:

I feel this will get out of hand because of your Grandad and personal feelings clouding your judgement. The original question was should he be allowed to link to the Everton site and agree with or dispise hooliganism the simple fact is this is a free society and there are alot worse things that go on in this world.

 


No I dont think he should be allowed cos he is damaging evertons name there must be some way Everton should stop him. But if they cant stop them than the question you raise is a pointless one
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#14 ooberman

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 13:01

I'm reading Scally at the moment, and I'd have to say I don't agree with this Andy Nicholls 'passion for Everton'. OK, he's a supporter, but EFC is secondary to his passion for violence. The club is just an easy outlet to have an organised scrap. Although he may have travelled far and wide to support the blues, he never seemed to watch a great deal of football, which IMO is a main factor in what supporting the club is about.

I am enjoying the book, purely for the insight into a person and a way of life that I will never experience and some of the stories are amusing, but as has already been said, he is making money out of this - along with all the other books and programmes on the subject (note: danny dyer in 'the real football factories' - what a mockney t*sser). If this is the type of life he wanted to lead so be it, but he should keep it to himself, by putting it out there in print, he can never stop certain individuals being influenced by it and continuing the 'trend'.
I doubt a book like this is going to tarnish the reputation of EFC so much, but it certainly doesn't do the reputation of the city of Liverpool any favours either. If the stereotype of a tracksuit wearin' robber is a tag we are happy to be labelled with, this book ticks all the boxes.

 


this is the key point really I think - I don't understand why he can't (like most hooligans do) just keep it to himself and not show off about it. if two groups of people get enjoyment from kicking ten shades of shite out of each other week in week out, then so be it (so long as they don't include innocent bystanders - Claire, sorry to hear about your grandad, hope he was ok afterwards) - but ultimately, if you're gonna do something that is inherently wrong, keep quiet about it, and by no means should you make it sound like it's "glamorous" because that only attracts more mindless idiots into these so-called 'firms'....
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#15 L_Blue

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 16:15

Apart from the odd person looking at his site for the purposes of curiosity most of the people looking at his site will be yobs generalisation I know but that is how I see it. Anyway, that means essentially all his site is doing is advertising Everton through his site to like minded people so I agree with those people saying the club should distance itself from sites like this.
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#16 Romey 1878

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 17:57

How can people who have actually bought his book say he shouldnt be able to make money out of glorifying it? You do realise you yourself are helping to make money out it? If you feel that way then dont buy his book or anything similar, but if people want to read it then thats their choice. Im not saying hooliganism is a good thing for football and our club, but it is still an interesting thing to read about from their POV.
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#17 jacobite

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 20:47

Hey all - after watching Green Street the other day, I've been searching around (as I tend to do every couple of years when a new fascination emerges in me as to how and why hooliganism happens) - anyway, I found the website of Andy Nicholls - supposedly one of the most famous Everton thugs.

My question to you guys is, on his website in his Links page, along with links to some shady sites (one selling hooligan attire - 80s casuals) - he's also linked to Evertonfc.com

Don't you think the club should distance themselves from this sort of site and not allow him to link to our beloved club?

Opinions?

 

Whoa I`ve got the book, and some of the things retold I remember, and some things now I cringe at but then again I think Andy may do now.
But we`ve all done a bit of growing since then and so has football in the main, for me its the same as reading an autobiography so if he makes money fair enough.
I don`t think Evertons p r would take any knocks by the book, because we have 0 good P R anyway.
Just my opinion.
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#18 Pat

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 21:50

Everyone should read Claire's posts.

100% with You.
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#19 Ian

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 22:08

Your right there Pat, that last sentence, spot on Claire
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#20 StevO

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 22:23

doesn't Andy Nicholls now hold regret for his hooliganism past? i dont see the problem with writing a book, thers no point pretending this stuff didnt go on, and as we all know it still does today, and i dont see a problem with him making money from the book, dont forget murderers have writen and had books published before. and for all we know anyone on this site could be involved in hooliganism, people who you talk to evryday, Andy Nicholls could also be a member of TT? but as much as these so called "firms" exist, i have no problem with them fighting each other, just as long as the innocent dont get hurt
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#21 Pat

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Posted 05 Sep 2006 - 22:25

He used to be known as 2 Rivers ( Police code name or sumfin) on B-Kipper.
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#22 Bluetrip

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Posted 06 Sep 2006 - 00:17

He used to be known as 2 Rivers  ( Police code name or sumfin) on B-Kipper.

 

I think any hooligonnism will tarnish a clubs name whether it's international or backstreet. Some people like the fear factor and violence glorification it brings with it. Like that's somehow going to make us harder to beat. I'm no pacifist and fight my corner if pushed but at a football match you can have passion without violence.

Innocent people are always dragged into it. Let's not pretend these people go to a barren location have a scrap then go home for tea. The bar I used to work in was the local for a famous firm in London. They used to come after a ruck and more often than not kick off on some bystander minding their own business. Some of themknow nothing about football they just go for the fight. After seeing me in a footy shirt I had one of the younger ones ask me why I didnt support a team from Liverpool, no joke. How many times have you heard of innocent people getting assaulted/stabbed on a match day on the train/tube etc.

Mindless dickheads every one of em. Fair enough you get it in life and people are free to do what they want, but if it's in the name of EFC I hope every one of em gets sent down.

That video link of Nichols page was good, listening to firm members trying to articulate their reasons for football violence.
London - The Real football Factories
North West The Real Football Factories

Edited by Bluetrip, 06 Sep 2006 - 00:57.

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#23 java2001e

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Posted 06 Sep 2006 - 01:53

hooligans are NOT football fans. they claim to support a team but thats only an excuse to start a fight.

they are usually ignorant, racist, and nasty.

ive got no time for them and even less time for those who make excuses for them.

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#24 paul

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Posted 06 Sep 2006 - 19:59

hooligans are NOT football fans. they claim to support a team but thats only an excuse to start a fight.

they are usually ignorant, racist, and nasty.

ive got no time for them and even less time for those who make excuses for them.

 


Agree with you in the main, but how can you say they are not football fans, people can have more than one hobby.
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#25 Tara Mac

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Posted 06 Sep 2006 - 20:12

I have a bigger understanding now than i did before i met mac. I can see why people think they are bigger fans because they fight for the club.

My own feelings on the subject are hooligans are unacceptable in this day and age, theyre time has come and gone, now women and kids can feel safer going to the game.

T
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#26 Bluetrip

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Posted 07 Sep 2006 - 07:16

I have a bigger understanding now than i did before i met mac. I can see why people think they are bigger fans because they fight for the club.

My own feelings on the subject are hooligans are unacceptable in this day and age, theyre time has come and gone, now women and kids can feel safer going to the game.

T

 

The only 'status' they get for fighting in the name of their club is with the fans of the other clubs who fight with them. That in comparison to the rest of the supporters is a minority.Most other people just think they're losers with little to no intelligence or education. Look at the interview on 'The Real Football Factory' A-Typical' every one they spoke to, almost a parody.
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#27 java2001e

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Posted 11 Sep 2006 - 11:38

The only 'status' they get for fighting in the name of their club is with the fans of the other clubs who fight with them. That in comparison to the rest of the supporters is a minority.Most other people just think they're losers with little to no intelligence or education. Look at the interview on 'The Real Football Factory' A-Typical' every one they spoke to, almost a parody.

 



they're as thick as a dockers sandwich. and theyve obviously got emotional and character issues.
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