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#121 TrueBlue

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 12:53

Certain points i agree and disagree with.

1st you dont need good football players in the middle of the park, I'd swap Arteta for Barton or Nolan anytime.
The last time we had good attacking football played was in the 80s, when we had a couple of hard working ball winners in the middle Bracewell and Reid, Their job was to stop the oppo midfield, win the ball, and give it to the players who could play, (Steven and Sheedy) down the wings and into the penalty area, its an easy game really.

2nd there is a distinct shortage of english players with skill enough to play on the wings, but if we spend money in the summer it has to be on wingers from home or abroad, that is where we, and a lot of other teams are failing,
The game plan and the tactics have been changed so much over the years away from the English Game, so we are now trying to accomodate foreign players, and competing against continental teams to a continental system which is completely foreign to our English players, lets return to the English way of playing.

Manure had Giggs & Beckham wide with Keane and Scholes in the mid, Chelsea Have had Duff and Robben with a couple of ball winners in the mid, Arsenal had Henry with Vierra and that little blond pigtailed fella who's name escapes me, in the mid.

Wingers will win you Titles and trophy's, but the system you play has to be the right one, DM does'nt seem to have any system at all, he just wants hard workers all over the pitch. We might not get rolled over by many teams, but at the same time we are never going to win anything, and its bloody awfull to watch.

Not really against DM because we are a bit more stable now than we where, but imo i dont think he.s the man to take us any further.


As apposed to where? :P

Do agree with a lot there Licker, but we did play some good football a few times during the 1995 season :)

But we had some good wingers then. And as you said (I read between the lines) that wingers are not the only solution. We need to get a right system and set up off players.

I don't think Moyes is capable of that but I'm more than happy to eat my words if he does. He is young and still learning though.

Still not joining the Wagon though as I'd like to see him try and we owe him that much for the joy (we have had some) and the expectations which he has raised. Hes done a good job and I'd like to see him move us on from where we are now.
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#122 Romey 1878

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 12:58

StevO im sober now and I still agree with what I said.


There has to come a point in time when Moyes decides we've settled the ship and starts to play decent football and use the grass our groundsmen so lovingly prepare. Instead if that there are rumours Arteta will leave (which I think he will), and that will take us back rather than forward because Moyes will not replace him with another skillful player. And I don't beleive the shit Moyes has come out with today saying he's going nowhere, because did he not say Rooney wasn't leaving? Forgive me if im wrong but Rooney doesnt play for us anymore does he?


I know BK must take some of the blame but we spent the best part of 9million on AJ and then Moyes plays a game to him where he needs to be over 6ft. The lad spends more time jumping to win unwinnable headers. If Moyes can't see that his tactics are detrimental then I don't see him at this club.
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#123 StevO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 13:27

StevO im sober now and I still agree with what I said.
There has to come a point in time when Moyes decides we've settled the ship and starts to play decent football and use the grass our groundsmen so lovingly prepare. Instead if that there are rumours Arteta will leave (which I think he will), and that will take us back rather than forward because Moyes will not replace him with another skillful player. And I don't beleive the shit Moyes has come out with today saying he's going nowhere, because did he not say Rooney wasn't leaving? Forgive me if im wrong but Rooney doesnt play for us anymore does he?
I know BK must take some of the blame but we spent the best part of 9million on AJ and then Moyes plays a game to him where he needs to be over 6ft. The lad spends more time jumping to win unwinnable headers. If Moyes can't see that his tactics are detrimental then I don't see him at this club.


fair enough mate.

but i still compare to the football ive seen us play for the last 16 or so years, and its better now than most of what ive seen in my earlier life.

and ive said before, we are still lucky to be a premiership team after the shite we have had to put up with.
and i cant think of a realistic replacement for moyes, and i do see us getting better players year on year. if we can improve again in the summer, like people have said, with wingers, the i think we would see a differnt type of football
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#124 Bill

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:00

The last ten Premier titles have been won with teams playing wingers (the english way), its wingers who provide all your good football moments, racing down the wing and sending in good crosses. And i would go as far as to say if i could buy just two players for EFC i could win the title for them. Ronaldo and Robben. If i could'nt get them i would go for Theo Walcott and .............................. aargh my minds gone blank :unsure: the young winger from Spurs.
Those two young guns are going to be the stars for Englands next world cup.

How much do i need to win on the lottery for those. :)

Edited by Licker, 09 Feb 2007 - 14:02.

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#125 Romey 1878

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:07

I think you're thinking of Aaron Lennon licker
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#126 aaron

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:09

routledge was you on about?
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#127 Bill

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:14

Yeah Lennon, My brain went dead. :rolleyes:
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#128 MikeO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:17

And i would go as far as to say if i could buy just two players for EFC i could win the title for them. Ronaldo and Robben.


That's quite a statement Bill, you really think we're (financial constraints aside) two players away from a title challenging side? It's a fucking encouraging thought.
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#129 StevO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:22

i would dribble all over myself if we got either of them two!
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#130 aaron

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:26

id die of a fuckin heart attack if we got either of them lol
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#131 Bill

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:34

That's quite a statement Bill, you really think we're (financial constraints aside) two players away from a title challenging side? It's a fucking encouraging thought.

........................

If you look at our squad from an outsiders view...............howard... hibbert...yobo.... lescot... valente.... neville.... arteta... cahill...johnson...beattie..osman, an outsider would say, and i also say, its as good as anyones outside the top four, with those couple of additions you'd have to say we would stand a bloody good chance.

Which of course leads us back to the topic........IS David Moyes getting the best out of this squad, i think not.
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#132 Romey 1878

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 14:37

I think due to Moyes having been a defender that somewhat limits his skills, he gets his team to play as he would - Defensively. He needs to branch out and push the players not limit them.
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#133 aaron

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 15:53

you have a excellent point there mark. if he played defensive hes going to choose defensive
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#134 TrueBlue

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 16:03

Can see your point but didn't Alex Ferguson and Arsne Wenger start out their (small) playin careers as defenders?
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#135 StevO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 16:58

I think due to Moyes having been a defender that somewhat limits his skills, he gets his team to play as he would - Defensively. He needs to branch out and push the players not limit them.


that would bring the case for a more attack minded coach joining the staff?

EDIT: SAF was a forward was he not?

Edited by StevO, 09 Feb 2007 - 16:59.

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#136 Romey 1878

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 17:09

that would bring the case for a more attack minded coach joining the staff?

EDIT: SAF was a forward was he not?



Exactly
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#137 MikeO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 17:13

More to the point Howard Kendall was never the most attacking player either (in fact he was a defender before he came to Everton!)...we've been here before but maybe some new attacking blood in the backroom staff is what's called for. Promote Sheeds anyone? Or bring someone in....any ideas?

Edited by mikeo, 09 Feb 2007 - 17:16.

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#138 StevO

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 20:14

Is Kanchelskis busy? :huh:
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#139 Randomness

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 21:58

Yes Actually He's Involved in something and i've forgotten! DAMMIT! But i agree the Youngsters that have been given a chance Vaughan Victor Rooney Osman and to a lesser extent hibbert, are all in the top division now, But we let a load of players go without even giving them a fair chance the manager is not always right when it comes to judging people, Throw all the Kids in at the deep end and then we'll get a good idea of the potential.
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#140 TrueBlue

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 22:38

I thought Kanchelskis was currently a free agent as he recenly left his former club (can't remember who they were though)
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#141 Pat

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Posted 09 Feb 2007 - 22:41

Have already picked my replacemt, if needs be.

Came in an epiphany.
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#142 Bill

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Posted 12 Feb 2007 - 09:47

Just bumped this back to the top, cos i've just seen Dario Gradi (Cewe's Manager) talking on sky sports, he says that his present strikeforce of Varney and Maynard is better than Hulse and Ashton, in fact he says its the best he's had in twenty Years. :blink: :blink: That is some statement.
His whole attitude is to build from the front, "score more than the opposition and you win the game".
I have two points... First should Moysey go in and buy these players while we can get them cheap, cos Hulse and Ashton havent done too bad and would cost about 10 or 12 million at present, Dario Rates them very highly and says they will have no probs Playing in the Prem.
Secondly... Is it worth bringing Gradi to Goodison in some capacity, Assistant manager, Director of Football, or just to bring on the Younger players, because his record for producing good young players is second to none, and i like his attack minded attitude.
Just a thought. :)
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#143 StevO

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Posted 12 Feb 2007 - 10:48

bump ray hall off and have gradi running the academy?
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#144 Romey 1878

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Posted 12 Feb 2007 - 20:07

I doubt Gradi would leave Crewe tbh but it would be a good idea.
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#145 SteeleRED

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 14:00

Decided to check in on this thread, and bring in an outsider's (LFC fan, American) perspective.

From what I've seen, I think David Moyes has done an admirable job with the club, given the financial restraints. I know MANY (outside of LFC fans) who think that Everton's talent is not top 8, but they are right there because Moyes gets the most of the talent that he has, and your side plays as a TEAM, rather than as a collection of individual talent. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. And I think Moyes deserves much credit for that.

You look at a side like Chelsea, greatly talented, yet the opposite is true: the "role players" have been sacrificed for "superstars" in every field position, but they don't meld well together. Thus, a team that has breezed to the last two league titles looks like it won't get to take three in a row. Some of that, I think, is on Mourinho, who "got what he wanted", yet hasn't found a way to mesh the talent.

Moyes deserves to be backed, by Toffee fans and more importantly, by the upper echelon of the club. He's a damn good manager.

But, that's just me...
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#146 L_Blue

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 15:36

Not saying Moyes is the greatest manager in the world and I too question his tactics from time to time. I did however find this article on Toffeeweb that makes quite interesting reading: Sack Moyes

Thought it made a few quite good points anyway happy reading :)
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#147 Bluetrip

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 17:31

Not saying Moyes is the greatest manager in the world and I too question his tactics from time to time. I did however find this article on Toffeeweb that makes quite interesting reading: Sack Moyes

Thought it made a few quite good points anyway happy reading :)


If we start sliding back into the relegation zone then calls for Moyes head are fair game but as it stands he's doing better than any other manager in the last 16 years. He hasn't spent a lot of money and we are looking like a solid top table team. The football is poor to watch at times but when hasn't it been in the last generation? We can't harp on about the 80s those days are over and we don't have the financial clout to compete at the very top plain and simple.

The teams who can, eclipse our entire season's transfer budget with the purchase of one player. The best we can hope for is 5th and 6th unless one of the '4' have a monumental disaster. We are 5 points away from that now if we win the game in hand against a dire Spurs away side. Five points away from achieving the realistically best possible outcome is a pretty good standing as far as I'm concerned. As for our stagnant Kenwright and his lack of funds that's another argument.
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#148 fcssl

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 18:31

I think there is definitely more of a movement to get rid of the RS's leader. Its typical, when the RS have a problem, they start whinging about other's instead of looking at themselves.

:)
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#149 Simon

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 18:42

Moyes has done fairly well on a smallish buget, but he has wasted money on the likes of kroldrup and beattie, his problem is that his outlook on the game is a bit to defensive for the top flight, i think. we are to slow to put moves together and we shut up shop too early in games, and as bluetrip said, kenwright is another argument alltogether, the man simply does not have the resources to run a premiership club.
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#150 MikeO

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 19:37

L_Blue that ToffeeWeb article is pure genius. God I wish I'd written it....for anyone who hasn't read it from start to finish..do!


READ THIS!
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#151 Bill

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Posted 13 Feb 2007 - 20:32

Excellent. :D :D
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#152 MikeO

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Posted 14 Feb 2007 - 10:30

Excellent. :D :D


Gives a little perspective Bill doesn't it...should make even the most rabid anti-Moyes campaigner think twice....and even if you don't agree with it it's brilliantly put together.

Even funnier are some of the responses of people...apparently victims of total irony bypass...who took it seriously, for example..

Re: Sack Moyes
I just spat my cornflakes over my computer screen. Cheers, I was enjoying those.

ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!!

Hankering for the days of Gemmill, Farrelly, Ward and Tiler. Jesus man, get a grip. I'm two years older than you so haven't seen that much more of Everton, but I'll tell you this; what you have written there, is the most insane rambling I have ever had the misfortune to lay my poor, poor eyes upon. I see some incredibly negative articles on here but that takes the biscuit.

I don't even have the strength to give examples, but I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your withered soul.
Richard Osborne, Birmingham (13/2/07)



OK so he'd only just got up but that's no excuse :lol: .

Edited by MikeO, 14 Feb 2007 - 10:42.

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#153 Blue Blooded Bootle Buck!

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Posted 14 Feb 2007 - 12:04

Very amusing and raises some good points,however ironic. :P
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#154 Randomness

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Posted 15 Feb 2007 - 19:41

How Weird is this Kanchelskis Retires.

I think someone on this forum had inside information!
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