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Over Policing On Saturday.


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#1 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 13:04

Was anyone in the Gwladys Street (Lower) on Saturday?

We were over run by Greater Manchester Police with cameras and extreamly aggressive attitudes, we were all individually grabbed and made to look into the camera and give out name, address, date of birth & seat number. Our crime apparently was singing songs the club didnt want us singing, now I can understand the Shields songs being frowned on but taking the piss out of Gerrard surly cant be seen as a crime!

I spoke with the head steward and he informed me that he had been drafted in due to his experience in the army where he was trained in riot tactics. He also openly admitted that the police were using intimidation tactics to control us and was extreamly vauge, as where the police when I asked them to clearly define what we would be arrested for. Basically they intimidated most of the lads into believing there was a danger of arrest for opening your mouth and anyone questioning was pulled to one side, surrounded by several officers and threatened. The only reason I missed out on that privalege was I was talking to the steward but several times I pointed out to him police bullying people and he did nothing.

My brother was told to put his phone away when he started filming what was going on and told he would be arrested and "it will hurt you more than me" & "when I get you outside it will hurt you even more", this was by a senior officer wearing a flat cap so not even a low ranking bobby.

Surly we dont deserve to be treated like that as paying customers?
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#2 Bill

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 14:11

Send that letter into the "POST and ECHO" and ask them to demand an explanation from the Club, they cant do it unless the club have specificly asked them to. Thats totally out of order.
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#3 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 14:27

Send that letter into the "POST and ECHO" and ask them to demand an explanation from the Club, they cant do it unless the club have specificly asked them to. Thats totally out of order.


The club have asked them! :angry:

Thats my point we dont deserve that, whatever happened to just having a word and giving people an opportunity to toe the line?

Set out some boundries if you feel the need but heavy handed tactics like that without any warning?????

We arnt talking a gang of thugs trying to cause trouble here, we are talking a group of mates / family singing during a few half time pints!
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#4 Bill

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 17:53

Liam.....If it happened to me i would involve the paper to bring it to public attention, and demand an apology.
Cause a stink if you have to but i wouldnt have it. :angry: Its out of order and I can see why your angry.
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#5 Mac

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 19:43

You pay a lot of money for your season ticket L, make yourself heard, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

No other organisation would take that sum of money off you and then make you feel like a second class citizen.

ATB

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#6 Romey 1878

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Posted 20 Nov 2006 - 21:32

Nothing like that happened to me but when I got to the turnstiles to go in I got searched by a police officer, it only pissed me off because other than me they were were only searching people with bags
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#7 Randomness

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Posted 21 Nov 2006 - 00:08

kin hell!

the only thing we saw was a bolton fan being ejected, they wont touch us, uis park enders have our own law firms :P
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#8 StevO

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Posted 21 Nov 2006 - 00:29

i was goin in the upper gwladys, as always, from my turnstyle both sides of me (lower stand turnstyles) every single person got searched, and they were all told it was incase alcohol was being sneaked in.

get on the case Liam, evertons atmosphre is meant to live from your area mate, us people spend more than can afford (im struggling saving for next years price increase) to see our beloved week in and week out. treating people like that is not on
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#9 aaron

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Posted 21 Nov 2006 - 09:04

if it was me id complain there is no need in that and people wonder why people hate the police.
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#10 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 09:50

The final kick in the nuts has arrived!

I got a letter from Everton warning me i'v been highlighted as somebody, "involved or associated with others involved in disorderly behaviour".

If this behaviour persists I will be subject to, "withdrawral of your season ticket & a banning order".

Now I understand completely where they're comming from but this is seriously heavy handed and considering the stance of the club and police so far I am extreamly reluctant to kick up too much of a fuss over this. They basically have my by the nuts because they can just withdraw my season ticket at any point if they feel like it, I actually highlighted this as a downside to the season cards when they introduced them and I'm starting to think the power factor was a large influence on the introduction of the electronic system!

Basically now they have my details and face on camera they could in theory cancel my season ticket if they see me on CCTV in the ground acting in a "disorderly" manor. Now I'm not looking to act a prick at all so this shouldnt be too much of a problem however the basis of what the club considers disorderly behabiour has not been clearly defined even though I'v asked both the police and stewards inside Goodison! Am I allowed to sing at all? What happens when Bellemy slaps another girl or gets done for driving offences? What happens If Stevie Laaarrr does actually move on in January over the recent rumours?

Will I get my season ticket instantly cancelled via the new electronic system If I sing a song about any of it? Will this oppression of freedom of speach spread upstairs to the terrace? Will "Murderers" and "we'll hang the kopites one by one" become "disorderly behavoiur"? How far will this go? Will It spread to every team, player or referee in the league?

Is this the begining of the end for the famous intimidationg atmosphere at Goodison park? I am no football hooligan, thug or come to think of it someone who acts in a disorderly manor at all. I am however one of the people who starts alot of the singing in the Lower Gwaladys Street and my brother & I have on several times this season dragged the sorry excuse for a crowd off their arses and got them going again. Surly the manager & players want the crowd behind them. Surly the stadium management at Goodison should realise this is a football crowd and they need to let the majority of verbal slip and focus on the actuall safety aspects of controling a crowd!

I am all for keeping people in check and as several of the regular bizzies at Goodison will testify I have played a major part in assisting them with both the throwing of ale last season and their policy of getting us to drink up and get back to our seats after half time this season. I had a word with alot of the lads last year and told them to stop acting like tits throwing ale and I can honestly say that although I enjoyed the atmosphere I never once threw a pint. This season when the police want us back in our seats they single me out because they know I'll grab everyone and get them back upstairs with minimal fuss.

My crimes to justify this treatement as far as I can see are being vocal at the match and not just any match, the Lower Gwladys Street stand of Goodison Park one of the best sets of supporters in the league! :(
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#11 Bill

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 10:41

i'm speechless. :blink: Whats the world coming to, the football stadia as always been a place to scream and shout, and generally release any pent up emotions.
FFS...if this continues, and we have to sit in seats without opening our mouths, it will no longer be an enjoyable part of an otherwise boring week. If that be the case i'd rather not go.
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#12 Zed

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 10:50

As you may know I sit near the away fans in the park end and there have always been plenty of nutters standing up and kicking off, however, the Police are no singling them out and constantly coming up into the crowd and telling people to sit down

The atmos is shit as it is

Im fed up with it all as well

I simpathise with you goldfish, but what can you do????????


BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING[size=5]
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#13 Willo

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 17:19

What an absolute load of fookin bollox , what in christs name is the world coming to .

No wonder the atmosphere has been sh!te this year as people are too scared to open their mouths for fear of getting chucked out and havin their season ticket torn up .

They would soon change their policies if everyone who had a season ticket thort '' fook it , if we cant get behind our team whats the point in going to the match '' and stopped going to Goodison each week and making the club shed loads of cash in the process .

I sympathise with you goldfish i really do cos you dont strike me as a thuggish kn0bhead in the slightest yet i could point out a couple of dozen to you when i'am at the game who should be chucked out for their antics yet the police are too scared to do anythin about them and it leaves the decent fans like you're good self getting the sh!tty end of the stick .

I reckon we should start a TT petition and voice our concerns to the club over the unfair treatment of goldfish ( and anyone else who has been subject to unfair discrimination by the club ) , not naming any names though or he could get into further sh!T for absolutly no reason at all .
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#14 fcssl

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 21:17

Amazing. Legally, there is no reason why you would have to supply your details if you had not committed any criminal offence - however, naturally, you would supply your details for fear of being turfed out of the ground and your season ticket revoked. The frightening thing for me is that Liam's details will be held on a database, either at the club or with Police for being involved in a disorderly behaviour incident. This is completely unfair in my opinion as he has not been tried for anything - simply rounded up and asked to give his name.

However, this is not an isolated incident. Mentioning no names, but a friend of mine who probably sometimes frequent's the boards had a similar experience. He is a professional bloke who has been a lifelong blue.

My mate was in the Park End last season when we took on Manchester United. He works unusual shifts and a lot of overtime usually (grabbing git!) therefore he never bought a season ticket as he could not be sure he would make every game, so he choses his games and buys tickets when he can. He took along his son - who is only about 10 or 11 I think, who is also an avid blue. However, neither were wearing any clothing which would show any loyalty to either side. As he lives in Lancashire, my mate has not got a Liverpool accent, and was singled out as being a Manc. Despite his protests, he, and his son, were escorted from their seats to another area. At half time they were then ejected from the ground by Police and stewards. When he wrote a letter of complaint to the club, he received a letter about six weeks later which basically said, yea, okay, we may have made a mistake but we had the best intentions for all concerned. Amazing.

Everton don't seem to be the best as dealing with our own fans at Goodison. Liam's story is just one of many i have heard of recently.

:(

Edited by www.fc-ssl.com, 27 Nov 2006 - 21:21.

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#15 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 22:14

Amazing. Legally, there is no reason why you would have to supply your details if you had not committed any criminal offence


The lets pick on anyone we like section 60 is to blame for this one

http://www.urban75.o...all/rights.html


The laws relating to football and public order are very loosely worded and open to interpretation. This guide is intended to help football fans get an understanding of the basic laws and their rights.

Stop and Search.
The police have the right to stop and search you outside the ground if they have 'reasonable suspicion' that you have committed a criminal offence, or if a senior officer believes that there is a likely incident of serious violence in the area'.

You can also be searched as you enter the ground and have personal items confiscated.

These include banners with poles, flares, bottles, cameras etc. You may experience great difficulty in getting your possessions back after the game. You are advised to get written permission from the club before attempting to bring in large flags, musical instruments etc.

Where you can be searched
The police can search you in any place that is generally open to the public. This means they can search you anywhere other than your home and your garden, or the home or garden of someone who has given you permission to be there.

Section 60 of the Criminal Justice Act could also potentially be used against football fans. This piece of legislation allows police to corral large numbers of people into a confined area and conduct basic searches as well as taking names, addresses and photographs.

Chanting: it is an offence to join in with racial and abusive chanting.

You may also find yourself in trouble for standing up and joining in with chanting 'likely to cause alarm and distress'.


Basically they have worded it so they can do what they want in the name of crowd "safety" (or payback for all those years they were bullied at school)!
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#16 fcssl

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Posted 27 Nov 2006 - 22:33

Liam, incidentally, where you issued with any paperwork from the Police. You seem to have a good understanding of the law - unless you are very very good at searching on the web.

If you are spoken to by an officer and names and details are obtained, you should be issued with a Stops Form. Equally, if you are searched, there is a section on the form, otherwise known as a PACE1 which would be completed. If not, I would imagine there has been a c breach of practise.

Please don't get me wrong! I am sure that there are two side's to every story, and if the actions of the Police were justified then I can only commend them. However, from what you have said, this is not the case.

Edited by www.fc-ssl.com, 27 Nov 2006 - 22:35.

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#17 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 28 Nov 2006 - 08:14

Liam, incidentally, where you issued with any paperwork from the Police. You seem to have a good understanding of the law - unless you are very very good at searching on the web.

If you are spoken to by an officer and names and details are obtained, you should be issued with a Stops Form. Equally, if you are searched, there is a section on the form, otherwise known as a PACE1 which would be completed. If not, I would imagine there has been a c breach of practise.

Please don't get me wrong! I am sure that there are two side's to every story, and if the actions of the Police were justified then I can only commend them. However, from what you have said, this is not the case.


I have experience with the police in personal and crowd situations and I am quite good at reading the mood of the establishment. So to answer your question no I dont have any paperwork and I understand the procedures to stop and search but this situation was a "powder keg" if ever I saw one. So I decided the asking for paperwork (which is always viewed as you being a smart arse anyway) was proberbly going to result in me sitting in a police van while some bizzie filled it out for me, leaving me outside the ground!

I also believe that under the section 60 rule paperwork is not necissarily within your rights as it is used to control crowds therefor the police would loose all controle they held if everyone in the crowd demanded a reccord of the search. They have proberbly overstepped the letter of the law somewhere but as mentioned earlier my face & details are now on a database somewhere for what I would consider an extreamly minor offence down to interpretaion of a sweeping law with what seems like no boundries!

This experience is only what I would expect from the police but what hurts the most is that they were acting under the instruction of my club and proberbly not the people who matter just some 4 per hour security officer who was having a bad week!
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