Does Anyone Care Anymore ?

[nilsatis66]

It's half-time and I trudge up the stairs in the Top Balcony, seething with anger at the pitiful performance I had witnessed as we a handed a very average but well-organised Blackburn team a 3 goal lead. I stop to look around at the groups gathered around the refreshment areas and am struck by how many are made up of smiling, joking, cheerful chappies. What they were talking about I couldn't tell - but what else was there to talk about ? and in what other terms could you discuss it other than passion and anger ? But it isn't like that anymore, there seem to be too many people at the game for the 'Premiership experience' or something, who actually do think "it's just a game". Well, it isn't, for a few of us it's at the very core of our lives,a defining feature of who we are and where we come from. Ten years ago this team would have been booed off the pitch and Moyes pilloried for what he is. Now, we just accept things and scurry on Lemming-like to leap over the cliff of the next false-dawn and stunted cup-run.

 

I am annoyed by many of the players, whose effort ill-matches their ludicrous remuneration; infuriated by Moyes and his stubborn, negative, minimal aspiration mentality; but most of all I am angered by the hordes of 'fans' who accept it all and don't care.

 

Moyes has not a single cup-run to his credit. He has recorded the lowest ever points total in an Everton season. The lowest number of goals in a season. A worse overall record than Walter Smith. He has no concept of how teams actually attack and score goals and his annual gesture of contempt towards the fans when transfer time looms is typical of the man. If we had any pride we would be demanding that he goes now. But we won't and his departure will inevitably be at the time of his choosing, not the club's.

 

Finally, if any of you out there are minded to respond "he hasn't been given the money" "we are moving in the right direction" "we are just a couple of players short of a great team"...or even"I think James Beattie will come good" please do seek some kind of professional help. Self-delusion is a debilitating and dangerous pre-cursor of more serious mental problems.

 

"Nil satis nisi optimum". What a joke. Anyone know the Latin for "any old crap will do for this set of mugs" ?

[Romey 1878]

I can't argue with anything there tbh mate

[Louis]

To be honest, I think many people were expecting to be mate because as you said Moyes doesn't 'do' cup runs.

 

Your'e comments on David Moyes are interesting, do you think he should walk? I have some articles on Toffeeweb where they suggest he should go because he is too negative, in many people's opinions including my own Moyes is still unproven - he has been here for five years with little to show for it. On the other hand the quality of players we have as opposed to five years ago is a lot higher (at least on paper).

 

Sorry I don't speak (any) much latin but maybe we should add cum grano salis to our motto?

 

or in the case of James Beattie "Errare humanum est, in errore perservare stultum".

[Romey 1878]

I bet you just researched that didnt you, the studious man you are

[Louis]

I confess.. I checked the spelling.

[Bill]

Which means what exactly.....???? For the non latin speaking Englishmen.

[Louis]

cum grano salis = with a pinch of salt

Errare humanum est, in errore perservare stultum = It is human to make a mistake, it is stupid to persist on it.

[Bill]

So why didnt you just say that.

[Andy]

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=4...es+not+too+down

 

the topic says it all, i know i said that at least weve got the league to worry about now but this is unacceptable from a manager i think just to disregard it, to go into a game with that attitude is simply wrong for a top flight team

[Romey 1878]

I can see us going the way of the Villa, but probably without the money pot at the end of it - Discontent from the fans towards the chairman and manager (hopefully we wont be changing managers as often as Villa did though). Just generally alot of heartache for the next few years as we drift further away from where we once where.

[nilsatis66]

Didn't expect to spark a debate on Latin vocabulary and grammar but I am at least encouraged to know that I suffer the miseries of following the blues in such educated company. Do I think Moyes should walk ? No. I think he should be asked to go. Not sacked as a total failure, but just advised, kindly and with due regard to his contract, that having given hima long time to show us what he is worth we have reached the conclusion that he is not what is required at Everton - he may have assembled a team that will not flirt with relegation but we need more - passion and an understanding that football is won by goals. All organisations, from businesses to countries, eventually benefit from the shake up which comes from new people at the top - whoever they are - because otherwise complacency sets in. Life is short - I've had the joy of trophies because I started this passionate embrace of EFC in 1962 - but my son has behind him ten years of nothingness. So, perhaps we can be brave enough to take a risk and have faith that there could indeed be life after Moyes.

[Romey 1878]

Who would you like the club to replace Moyes with?

[Louis]

I've heard the following names been thrown around.

 

Dave Jones

Guus Hiddink

Ottmar Hitzfeld

[Romey 1878]

 

Dave Jones is the only realistic one on that list. I'd have Billy Davies myself.

[Louis]

Possibly.

 

Prior to Roeder going to Newcastle, geordies were lobbying for Hitzfeld to fill the vacant seat in the dugout. http://www.hitzfeldforthetoon.info/

 

I hope that Nilsatis66 sticks around, a very high quality post. He asks does anyone care and I think the answer is "yes, but less than they should do". Today's attendance was around 24,000 almost half than it would have been had it been a league game. What was to blame? Ticket prices? Playing style? Weather? Restricted views in the stands? A combination of all those?

[Pat]

Press doen under suggest Hiddink is about to can the Russian job & if doenst take the Chelsea job, will return to Australia.

 

Another of his right hand men..Baan just been apointed tech director down under @ Hiddink's demand they say.

 

1stly we need Moolah to attract a top class manger.

 

2ndly That manager then has to be a top player magnet.

 

 

 

P.s on todays attendance. I would put alot of it down to being skint from xmas..

 

January can be killer for many.

 

However, if it continues to spill over to league matches, thats a serious concern.

[Oztoffee]

I agree, that was an excellent post 66.

Unfortunately, I also have to agree with almost everything you said. It breaks my heart to see what's happened to the club that was my life & soul till I moved "down under".

24,000 for a Cup game against a Prem side - f**k I went to a cup game against Peterborough at Goodison in 19 burble-burble and I think there was 32,000 there (and that was before Peterborough were in the league).

There also seems to be a complete lack of the will to win at the club. OK, I don't pay money to see them play anymore, but I sure feel sorry for the one's that have paid XXX quid for a season ticket hoping that there's a good chance of some entertainment.

As I don't pay, many would say that I have no case to put an opinion - but any way, here goes:

Moyes has had enough time to gel the players HE has chosen into an effective unit. It is HIS responsibility to ensure that the team does NOT get thrashed 4-1 AT HOME by a pretty average Prem side EVER! HE's the person that is there to motivate the players HE has chosen - if he can't do THAT, he should go.

I've always tried to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sorry to relate, my patience has run out. I'm just really sorry for the REAL fans who deserve much better.

[Pat]

All Evertonians are entilted mate.

 

Wow the people have certainly spoken in the past 24 hrs.

[aaron]

if there was a suitable manager to replace him i think moyes should walk

[malmic]

I feel Moyes should leave at the end of this season or preferably before.

He has acheived nothing except Premiereship survival since he was here and even worse managers managed that. We are a club who should not be content with mediocrity or negative tactics on the field.

To be honest I have never seen such drab and negative football from an Everton side.

Why does he still give Beattie a chance as against Man. City when we all know he is not the same player anymore.. I feel we deserve much better like the Kendall or even Royle regimes. We need someone with ideas as when we go one nil down we are more likely to lose by an even greater margin than draw.

Moyes has had money and at times it was well spent and at times wasted but the final product is what counts and that sucks especially in the cups.

I am sure we can get someone better than unproven Moyes. Jones comes to mind but there are many others.

 

 

MALMIC

[MikeO]

Excellent "thinking" post, just what the forum needs and I hope you stick around Nilsatis...nice change from the standard "we're shite..." . Would piss me off big time to see people anything but totally miserable at half time yesterday, Everton may not be the "core" of my life as it is for many but it's a very important part of it and the philosophical reaction I had to yesterdays result maybe was a subconscious acceptance of mediocrity, I'll have to give it some thought.

 

The ten year analogy is a bit flawed though. Ten years ago (by coincidence) Blackburn came to Goodison having not won an away game all season and in the bottom three, they beat us 2-0 watched by 30,000. That was in the middle of a Christmas/January run of one point from seven games and we ended up avoiding relegation by two points. Surely we've moved on from that?

 

I don't know what the answer is, I'm at a distance and rely on what I read and hear and watch on TV but I'm an optimist. Our level of expectation has been raised since Moyes has been in charge so does that make him a victim of his own (admittedly limited) success. Ten years ago if we'd been offered the position we're in now would we have taken it?

 

We do have some extremely talented players..internationals from all over the world (and Scotland ), compare that with the team (Nev, Barrett, Phelan, Hottiger, Watson, Ebbrell, Stuart, Speed, Barmby (Branch), Kanchelskis (Limpar), Ferguson) who played against Blackburn in '97. Some good players there too (shite ones also)....don't know where I'm going with this really, just chucking it in the pot.

 

Not a good start to 2007 though...things can only get better, can't they?

Edited January 8, 2007 by mikeo

[Bill]

Likewise, i'm with Nilsatis on this one, I've been fortunate enough to see them through the 60s, when the only time we never got into the top five was in 66, but we won the Cup. Ten years in the wilderness before we again became a force in the 80s, and just about won everything there was to win.

The difference between those sides was so distant, the 60s team was provided by John Moores Mersey Millions, which enabled us to just go and buy the best players available.

 

The 80s team was Scraped together with a few decent Buys, a few home grown players, and a few old masters who had past their sell by date. None of them were great players when they arrived, but they all blended together as a team and became great players, cos they were winners, the operative word being winners.

Big Nev, Rats, Watson, Mountfield, Vd Hauwe, Reidy, Gray, Brace, ........ I'd go to war with any of those cos they were all Winners.

 

What do we have today, possibly two or three in a squad of 20 players. The rest give the impression they couldnt be bothered if they won or not, as long as they show up and get paid, is all they worry about.

 

WHO'S FAULT. ?.......Howard, Yobo, Lescott, Valente, Neville, Cahill, Arteta, Beattie, Johnson, and Davies, all good players when bought by the Manager, add to those our home grown talent like Hibbert, Osman, Annichebe, Vaughan.

 

There's not a better squad outside of the top six, so who's to blame, is it the players for not trying hard enough, or is it the manager who is tacticly Naive and is simply not getting the best from the players. ............Manager or Players. ????

Edited January 8, 2007 by Licker

[MikeO]

With you on the eighties team Licker, but at what point did they become winners? The same players, most of them anyway, spent a good while at Everton as anything but. Where were you standing (Kendall-wise) with time running out at Oxford on 18th Jan. Kevin Brock fucks up, Howard's saved and suddenly the team's transformed but who knew that at the time (can you imagine, if the internet had been in use then, the clamour for Kendall's head on TT...would have dwarfed todays dis-satisfaction with Moyes big time). We all thought, "lucky bastards" and probably booed them off the pitch, they deserved no better. Then we get the most glorious time in the clubs history and you and I are lucky enough to have been there for it. But if Brock had hoofed the ball into the crowd, Kendall sacked, what then? What was the catalyst? I don't know...but it was fucking magic to watch.

 

The one player I'd have liked next to me in the trenches would be Reidy for sure, and I'd like to see him back at Everton in some capacity one day, even though his managerial record isn't great. His playing record wasn't great when we signed him either, and he certainly wouldn't put up with any passengers!

Edited January 8, 2007 by mikeo

[Bill]

Yeah Mike, the turning point was when he brought Colin Harvey in as his assistant manager/coach, something changed.

 

Whether it be tactics, system of play, or just understanding the players better, but there was quite a turnaround in the players believing in themselves.

 

Could a change in backroom staff be the answer ??, I dunno but we are not getting the best out of the good players we have here at the mo.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Licker

[bluegaz74]

If you where looking for a manager with a serious passion for the blues, you couldn't do much better than Peter Reid. Anyone see him on Sky Sports last night after they showed the goals? - he was fuming more than Moyes was at the way we conceded. The players would soon get their a*ses in gear after a !*@!*! hairdryer treatment from Mr Reid.

[aaron]

I feel Moyes should leave at the end of this season or preferably before.

He has acheived nothing except Premiereship survival since he was here and even worse managers managed that. We are a club who should not be content with mediocrity or negative tactics on the field.

To be honest I have never seen such drab and negative football from an Everton side.

Why does he still give Beattie a chance as against Man. City when we all know he is not the same player anymore.. I feel we deserve much better like the Kendall or even Royle regimes. We need someone with ideas as when we go one nil down we are more likely to lose by an even greater margin than draw.

Moyes has had money and at times it was well spent and at times wasted but the final product is what counts and that sucks especially in the cups.

I am sure we can get someone better than unproven Moyes. Jones comes to mind but there are many others.

MALMIC

 

firstly welcome to TT, good post, i have to disagree with the moyes leaving before end of season as it can fuck the squad up, maybe say to him your contract is going to be terminated come end of season, then while hes still in charge look for a manager, just like england did with sven and mcClaren. it would give us time to look for a decent manager instead of hireing just anyone so we have a manager, tbh i dont know who can take control and i dont know who would want to, we have very little money to spend and our chairman is a twit. but i was the other day saying moyes should stay but after the defeat to blackburn i think his time is up come summer

[Ian]

Very interesting topic this one...

 

First of all spot on the half time comment, I know you cant expect people to be tearing down the place cos your gettin beat but a bit of emotion wouldnt go a miss. Me and me brother barely talk at the break if where gettin beat! We shouldnt accept sh!te, we dont deserve it and if we do the attendances will keep getting lower and the atmposphere will continue to die...

 

I sadly have not seen the glory years and have only seen one trophy lifted in my life time. However that is no excuse to accept this at our great club. Like people have said its not the worst crop we've had and we've done a lot better with less, managers fault?

 

Its sad to see people at Everton not giving a toss about defeats. 'Not too down about the defeat' 'Not our day', too many time this has been said. We cannot keep blaming the referee as well, if where not going to get penalties then keep plugging away and score from open play!

 

Nearly everyone on here would give their right bollock to put on that blue jersey and I think the commitment level would eclipse some of the performances this season very easily. Where sitting in a decent position but it should have been much better, points being dropped in games that we HAVE to win. With the players we've got we should be beating team like wigan, city and blackburn. Its unacceptable when you think of some of the performances we can produce.

 

Its easy to blame just the players or just the mangerial staff, where a team and they should all shoulder the blame. Fingers need to be pulled out right through the club.

 

I dont think its Daveys time go to yet, I still think he has a lot to learn but would it hurt to get a experienced fella in to give him a bit of talking to, help him out?

 

I dont want this to sound negative as I'm quite the optimist when it comes to Everton, I hate slating the team. I really hope things change and we get back into the swing of things, fans included

 

COYB!!

[Ian]

Oh and I care a great deal to answer your question , great post, few new memebers with some cracking posts in the last day or two, stick around!

[Romey 1878]

Does this look familiar to you lot?

 

 

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/06-07/comm...950-Burnham.asp

[aaron]

did they rob that or did nilstais post the same on there?