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#41 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 15:05

He was using selling AJ as an example of how silly it is to sell your best players I think.
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#42 Blue4Ever

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 15:12

It did sound a bit stupid like no worries then.
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#43 RuffRob

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 16:29

Yer I agree, but we shouldnt have to sell are good players to fund all our summer transfers, bill should give moyesey 2 3rds of this TV revenue to fund Nugent and Manuel and maybe a leftback.
[/quote]


Agree fully, we would be much better off if we could keep all out decent player and just buy even better one.

But the reality is we don't have the finacial clout to do that. So until we have more money to throw around Moyes is going to have to sell as well as buy.

Its just cloud cookoo land to think we have plenty of money to spend, and don't have to sell players to maximise the transfer kitty.

Yes, we should have 'untouchable' players at the club that we should do everything in our power to ensure they stay at the club and we build around. 18 months ago Cahill was one of those such players, but now that pendelum has swung towards Arteta, Lesscot, Yobo and Johnston, as our squad improves. Maybe this summer a certain Fernandez may join those ranks.

Cahills importance to the squad is not as much as it was - that is a fact.

OK lets put it another way - If Cahill was a Blackburn player for instance- Would he be at the very very top of your summer shopping list as the £6M player that squad needed at this moment in time.
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#44 Joe

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 17:16

It would be hard for me to see Cahill leave. He brings so much hard work determination and presence to the midfield. If it was able to bring in both Fernandes and Barton (who is a few years younger) I would definitely think about it. I don't think you can sell Cahill useless you get a really good offer.
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#45 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 17:35

Forget getting £6million for him right now, his contract runs out in just over a year.
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#46 Blue4Ever

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Posted 29 Mar 2007 - 17:54

Agree fully, we would be much better off if we could keep all out decent player and just buy even better one.

we need to get Manuel more than any one else so if we only have a bit of money id spend it on him before any other transfer, then look at Nugent if a few leave or maybe another good player. Its better we keep what we have and get 2 good players each year then we could be looking even higher up the league in years to come.
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#47 Maghull70

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 05:18

He was using selling AJ as an example of how silly it is to sell your best players I think.


Spot on Romey-la.

One of the earlier posts mentioned that Cahill has his faults so I was pointing out that AJ too has his faults (as does every player). If you look at what I wrote I actually said we shouldnt get rid of any of our best players (AJ, Cahill, Yobo, Lescott, Arteta).

Back onto Cahill, another thing he gives our midfield is bite. He goes in hard (ala Peter Reid). You need someone to put a bit of fear in the opposition. Cahill is up for it.
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#48 RuffRob

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 15:35

Spot on Romey-la.

One of the earlier posts mentioned that Cahill has his faults so I was pointing out that AJ too has his faults (as does every player). If you look at what I wrote I actually said we shouldnt get rid of any of our best players (AJ, Cahill, Yobo, Lescott, Arteta).

Back onto Cahill, another thing he gives our midfield is bite. He goes in hard (ala Peter Reid). You need someone to put a bit of fear in the opposition. Cahill is up for it.


Not saying we should get rid of our best players, only if monies are needed for transfer - then out of our pool of best players (i.e those who would bring in a decent wedge) Then for me Cahill is the most the disposable.

The question still stands unanswered, Maghull - If you HAD to 'sacrifice' one player who would generate more than £5-6M to a transfer fund, individual faults aside, who is the player that we could best accomadate without? Youv'e had a 'joking' answer.

As regard to 'bite' in the middle - Quality touches and cultured passes are just as important, epecially, if you have a defensive player already in your midfeild for the bite factor!!
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#49 aaron

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 16:21

we would get more than £6mil for cahill.
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#50 Romey 1878

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 18:02

we would get more than £6mil for cahill.



We wouldnt get a penny over £4million for him Aaron, that is unless he signs a new contract. His contract runs out not this summer, but the summer after. No club would be mad enough to pay that for him.
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#51 Adams

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 19:42

why are people talkin about selling cahill? NEVER
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#52 Mac

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 20:24

Get real peeps, if the right offer comes along we will sell. This game of ours is no longerabout pride, passion and commitment, it is about money. We paid peanuts for Tim, anything over that is profit. Let's not delude ourselves, it is all about the bottom line.

If we get an offer of over £10m we must accept, for the simple reason we are a selling club, none of us like it, but it is a fact of life.

A little success will go a long way, but until then we must accept what we are.

ATB

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#53 Zed

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 20:27

Get real peeps, if the right offer comes along we will sell. This game of ours is no longerabout pride, passion and commitment, it is about money. We paid peanuts for Tim, anything over that is profit. Let's not delude ourselves, it is all about the bottom line.

If we get an offer of over £10m we must accept, for the simple reason we are a selling club, none of us like it, but it is a fact of life.

A little success will go a long way, but until then we must accept what we are.

ATB

Mac



Id bite anyones hand off for £10 million
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#54 Mac

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Posted 30 Mar 2007 - 20:33

Being a realist is all part and parcel of being an Evertonian. I don't like it, but it is the way it is.

Maybe the fact that some of the older members realise that money will save us and take us forward, is a terrible way to think, but it is still the only way I can think. I love the bones of the lad (Tim), but let's get real.

Don't talk about what it will cost to replace him, talk about what he is worth to us.

ATB

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#55 StevO

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 00:02

The question still stands unanswered, Maghull - If you HAD to 'sacrifice' one player who would generate more than £5-6M to a transfer fund, individual faults aside, who is the player that we could best accomadate without? Youv'e had a 'joking' answer.


Yobo - from the players mentioned as our better players, id choose to lose Joe first, prone to the odd mistake, and we would possibly get enough to replace him with similar quality
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#56 Maghull70

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 04:25

Not saying we should get rid of our best players, only if monies are needed for transfer - then out of our pool of best players (i.e those who would bring in a decent wedge) Then for me Cahill is the most the disposable.

The question still stands unanswered, Maghull - If you HAD to 'sacrifice' one player who would generate more than £5-6M to a transfer fund, individual faults aside, who is the player that we could best accomadate without? Youv'e had a 'joking' answer.

As regard to 'bite' in the middle - Quality touches and cultured passes are just as important, epecially, if you have a defensive player already in your midfeild for the bite factor!!


FIRSTLY you say "Quality touches and cultured passes are just as important". You are right but can I just say that a mate of mine who supports Arsenal used to love Pires BUT he said he (and other continentals) used to pull out of too many challenges way too often, SO you shouldnt underestimate a bit of nastiness in the middle.

Back to your QUESTION, realistically I wouldnt sell any BUT HYPOTHETICALLY I'm going to have to say Yobo, or if you want to put Phil Neville into the equation I'd sell him.

AND before anyone says "WHAT, sell Neville/Yobo etc" Ive been forced into a corner and this is hypothetical. There.
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#57 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 06:22

FIRSTLY you say "Quality touches and cultured passes are just as important". You are right but can I just say that a mate of mine who supports Arsenal used to love Pires BUT he said he (and other continentals) used to pull out of too many challenges way too often, SO you shouldnt underestimate a bit of nastiness in the middle.

Back to your QUESTION, realistically I wouldnt sell any BUT HYPOTHETICALLY I'm going to have to say Yobo, or if you want to put Phil Neville into the equation I'd sell him.

AND before anyone says "WHAT, sell Neville/Yobo etc" Ive been forced into a corner and this is hypothetical. There.


So hypothetically speaking you would choose to leave a huge gap in defence to be filled by Stubbs (who lets be honest is going to fade away next season and is beeing offered a contract as cover & experience on the training pitch) rather than sacrafice one of our over crowded midfield????
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#58 StevO

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 08:19

i chose yobo as a selling one to buy another, i think cahill is more important to our team than yobo, we could replace yobo for what we would get for him.

theres also the fear factor with cahill, a lot of teams are aware of his threat so will be shitting it about playing him before hand, pulling a defender onto him can leave that little bit of space for AJ to cause havock
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#59 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 08:56

i chose yobo as a selling one to buy another, i think cahill is more important to our team than yobo, we could replace yobo for what we would get for him.

theres also the fear factor with cahill, a lot of teams are aware of his threat so will be shitting it about playing him before hand, pulling a defender onto him can leave that little bit of space for AJ to cause havock



Isnt the Ideat if you had to sell a player to make some money to dabble a little in the transfare market??

If so selling Yobo would be pointless because we would be selling a half decent defender who would cost roughly the same to replace hence giving us no money to play with!!
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#60 StevO

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 09:17

then with the same reasoning, we would sell cahill (at a cut down price due to his shoirt contract) and replace him with another of no better quality.

but we all know DM will not be selling Cahill. no bigger club will want him
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#61 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 09:29

I dont know if I'm missing the context of the original question here but if we were looking to maximise profit for the good of team building then although I love Cahill and think he is one of the most important members of our squad I think he would be the man I would sacrafice.

Consider selling Cahill and with the money purchasing Fernandes & putting the other 4mil (ish) with the Beattie money towards a 20 goals a season man to play next to johnson I would say we wouldnt be weakening the midfield just loosing a goal threat. When you think we will be adding a new goal threat up front then I dont think it would be a mojor loss. Of course that would rely on getting 10-12 mil for Cahill and paying a realistic 6-8 for Fernandes and we could be looking at bringing in another 8million pound striker!
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#62 Maghull70

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 09:49

I dont know if I'm missing the context of the original question here but if we were looking to maximise profit for the good of team building then although I love Cahill and think he is one of the most important members of our squad I think he would be the man I would sacrafice.

Consider selling Cahill and with the money purchasing Fernandes & putting the other 4mil (ish) with the Beattie money towards a 20 goals a season man to play next to johnson I would say we wouldnt be weakening the midfield just loosing a goal threat. When you think we will be adding a new goal threat up front then I dont think it would be a mojor loss. Of course that would rely on getting 10-12 mil for Cahill and paying a realistic 6-8 for Fernandes and we could be looking at bringing in another 8million pound striker!


This discussion is just going round in circles. SO I say lets sell Cahill. You are right. Great idea!
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#63 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 10:10

This discussion is just going round in circles. SO I say lets sell Cahill. You are right. Great idea!


You dont like open discussion / debate do you??

Anything but agreeing with your opinion results in sarcasm or leaving the conversation!

Glad you think we're right :speak_cool:
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#64 StevO

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 10:13

i really dont think we could be getting 10-12m for cahill, with a short contract
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#65 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 10:50

i really dont think we could be getting 10-12m for cahill, with a short contract


No but seen we are talking Hypothetically here Moyes wouldnt be stupid enough to try and sell him with the contract as it is, tie the lad up and ge the best price for him.
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#66 aaron

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 13:39

why sell are top player? that is a step down, players join clubs to play along side as players such as cahill, AJ etc. selling him and we have lost a bargining chip in lureing good players to our club.
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#67 Jackelz

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 14:05

I know. we cant offored to be letting anyone go really as we have such a small squad. I could live with losing beats and VDM and then affter that we neew to bring in rather than sell You dont let your best players go unless they actually want to leave your club. We need to take cahill Aj arteta lesscot yobo howard nevile and fernandes for that matter(must buy) and hold on to them now with everythink we have got and and to them as we go along.

OUT
VDM
Beats


IN
nugent
fernandes
(a mid) ??barton?? ... sorry mac
(a left back)??baines??
(a winger)??etherington??

also cahill and arteta on contract extensions

..... Lets have it..... first time we will of had a proper a squad in i dont know how long??
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#68 Maghull70

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 14:08

You dont like open discussion / debate do you??

Anything but agreeing with your opinion results in sarcasm or leaving the conversation!

Glad you think we're right :speak_cool:


The discussion is going round in circles because people (and me included) are giving our opinions but you have made your mind up that you are right and everything that is contrary to your opinion is wrong. Any debate is killed because you come back with the same argument each time, adding nothing new. It appears that the debate wont stop until everyone is convinced you are correct.

I do like debate if it has substance and goes somewhere, this "debate" while initially an interesting hypothetical question has gone on a bit too long.

As for "Glad you think we're right". "WE"? That would be you and maybe one other person. As for the other 6 or so who disagree, what do we know?.

So we both have our own opinions and we obviously disagree on this particular subject. OK?. End of.
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#69 Romey 1878

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 14:17

You could be talking about yourself there mate tbh, you keep saying the same thing and think only you are right. This is the point of a forum is it not - to have a discussion. It doesnt mean everyone is going to agree, otherwise it wouldnt be much of a forum would it?
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#70 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 14:47

The discussion is going round in circles because people (and me included) are giving our opinions but you have made your mind up that you are right and everything that is contrary to your opinion is wrong. Any debate is killed because you come back with the same argument each time, adding nothing new. It appears that the debate wont stop until everyone is convinced you are correct.

I do like debate if it has substance and goes somewhere, this "debate" while initially an interesting hypothetical question has gone on a bit too long.

As for "Glad you think we're right". "WE"? That would be you and maybe one other person. As for the other 6 or so who disagree, what do we know?.

So we both have our own opinions and we obviously disagree on this particular subject. OK?. End of.


Prior to the post you quoted my involvement in this thread was to ask you a question which I never received an answer to. I then read StevO's post and tried to clarify exactly were he was comming from & then posted my opinion for the first time (post 61 of this thread at the top of page 4) and came back to find you had thrown your toys out the pram because my opinion differed from yours.

My sarcastic reply was due to you responding to my opinion like a little child my use of the word "we're" was a result of Zed & Mac (possibly some others) stating they would cash in on Cahill FOR THE GOOD OF TEAM BUILDING & my assumption that although you directed your little hissy fit at me it was proberbly a result of previous posters disagreeing with you and not necissarily me.

As for me stating you dont seem to enjoy discussions / debates that was down to the fact that twice I have seen people disagree with your opinion, here & in the Andora - England thread and both times you have got IMO a bit shirty because you dont like what other people think.

Telling me I have made my mind up that I am right is a realy bad judgement of me. I am very opinionated and disagree with many posters over various subjects but I'm sure Mike, Bill, Mac, Zed and various others I have disagreed with in the past will tell you that I will put forward my points strongly but allways reach a balance when all is said and done (apart from with the red shite).

Food for thought in future too, agreeing to disagree with someone after taking the piss out of them in your first paragraph and finishing your post with "End of" is extreamly disrespectful.

Liam xxx

PS. For all this "discussion" I still believe you havent quite grasped my point in this or the Andora - England thread & believe if you spent your time asking me a few questions to clarify my perspective rather than loosing your rag you would see that I do infact largly agree with you I am just comming from another angle with my opinion!!
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#71 Ash_

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 15:40

selling a goal threat to bring in a new goal threat isnt moving forward. why try and fix something that isnt broken, Cahill scores alot of vital goals for us even if he has been out for alot of this season, theres no point in removing a vital player to bring in a player who will take time to get used to our style.. that's if it even eventually happens. plus next year Anichebe and Vaughan will be better players plus we can play a 4-5-1 strat which we do so effectively, Andy Johnson has the pace and the ability to be a lone striker and we can then have an extremely appealing Midfield with Arteta Cahill and Fernandes (with the BT and VDM money). also anyone who says that a 4-5-1 strat is second rate or whatever i say bull**** doesent matter if you beat a team using 4-5-1 or using 4-4-2 you still get the points.

Edited by Ash_, 31 Mar 2007 - 15:41.

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#72 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 16:01

I'm getting fustrated explaining where I'm comming from here but I'll try and put it across simply,

Sell Yobo & we would need to sell another player to have the available funds to replace him & add to the Beattie money for a striker, thats 2 players lost and a weakened defence.

Sell Cahill & you get Fernandes who will do a better job as a midfielder but score less goals, however the money raised from the cahill sale would leave us with the same defence a solid (if non scoring) midfield & hopefully a potent strike force!

It's all about personall preference but I believe the latter would be the more productive but a harder pill to swollow. I also believe that would be more along a managers choice if he had to sell to buy, how often have we seen a club hero being sold because he raises the most capitol??

We could have had a similar discussion regarding Rooney however his sale has left the club on a decent financiall footing and freed up transfare cash every year since which we never had before his transfare.

I'm backing out of this now because I realy dont care its a hypothetical question and I'v given my opinion based on what I'd do in the situation not what I would like to see happen as a fan.
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#73 Maghull70

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 16:09

Well, I dont know about the hissy fit thing. Actually having a bit of a giggle here at all this.
As to your question, I presume you mean the following; (should Yobo leave)
"So hypothetically speaking you would choose to leave a huge gap in defence to be filled by Stubbs (who lets be honest is going to fade away next season and is beeing offered a contract as cover & experience on the training pitch) rather than sacrafice one of our over crowded midfield????"
Well, actually NO I wouldnt CHOOSE to leave a hole there. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, Moyes would get cover in over the summer (and reasonably cheap) Plus a hypothetical youngster will come through next season.

Youre probably right though about getting you mixed up with someone else (I think ruffrob). So soz about that.
Still I think there were a few over reactions, not just from me.

By the way, I'm not sure we have an over-crowded midfield. We have a small squad and you need cover otherwise you get in big trouble when injuries occur. And if we get into Europe and want to do well we are going to need a bigger squad than we have. Not to mention the competition for places with better players around.

Edited by Maghull70, 31 Mar 2007 - 16:24.

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#74 Bill

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Posted 31 Mar 2007 - 17:38

Maghull said ......""By the way, I'm not sure we have an over-crowded midfield. We have a small squad and you need cover otherwise you get in big trouble when injuries occur.""

..............

With Cahill, Arteta, and Fernandes (if we get him) we also have Osman Neville, McFaddy and Carsley, who can all play midfield, they may not be the worlds best but could fill any injury gaps if needed. We do have an overcrowded Midfield cos at the moment we have good midfielders having to play wide because we havent got a winger on the books.

Not having a go here, i'm just pointing out what some people seem to forget, we will never get the best out of our squad if the manager continues to play players out of position. Yobo at RB, Lescott at LB, Neville anywhere and everywhere, Ateta RW, LW, and Centre, Osman and Mcfaddy have been tried on both wings.

My target at the end of season would be a wide left footer, a left back and a right back. The Striker position is not Desperate with Vaughan, Annichebe, Johnson and McFaddy at a push.

So my definate outs in the summer would be Beattie, Van der Plonky, and Pistone, No great loss to the Squad, would get them off the wage bill, and may even bring in a few bob to put towards the transfer funds.

Lets concentrate on getting the Balance of the team right first, and then look at how we perform before we decide to sell anyone, although its only Hypothetical. ;)

Bill.
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#75 StevO

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Posted 01 Apr 2007 - 14:16

im with you on the winger side bill, our midfield hasnt got the balance with out a lefty.
im not too concerned by the RB position, i like Hibbert, i think he can do a good enough job, id rather spend the money on our midfield. i agree we could do with a LB, but i've heard nothing but good things about young paddy boyle.

Liam, dont get too stressed mate, its not that serious
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#76 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 01 Apr 2007 - 14:56

I'm in on the winger theory too but who do you get in? I'v always been a massive fan of Damien Duff but he just hasnt done it since he was at Blckburn having said that I suppose price wise that could mean he was quite affordable.

As for right back with Pip capable & Joey as possible cover I realy dont see the problem Tony Hibbert is one of the best defensive full backs in the leage its just going forward where he lacks massivly but thats not a major issue in my mind. Left back is an area that worrys me, I think its time Moyes got his finger out of his arse & played Paddy Boyle to see if he's got it. Imagin a situation where we could sell Nace to rangers & Pistone to anyone leaving us with an international & a hungry kid fighting for left back!

I dont have a massive issue with utilising Arteta on the right either if we buy a good central midfielder because at the moment I think Arteta has his better games out wide.

Priorities for the summer from my perspective are Left wing, ball winning & playing midfielder (Fernandes looks like he'd fit the bill) & a good striker.

We also need to blood Boyle & Vidarsson to see if they have what it takes.

Outs for my are Wright, Beattie, Pistone & possibly Naysmith.
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#77 Bill

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Posted 01 Apr 2007 - 15:01

Outs for my are Wright, Beattie, Pistone & possibly Naysmith.

.......


Plus Vdm. ?????????????????????????????????????? :o :o :o
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#78 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 01 Apr 2007 - 15:03

Outs for my are Wright, Beattie, Pistone & possibly Naysmith.

.......
Plus Vdm. ?????????????????????????????????????? :o :o :o


Sorry Bill, after the last 2 years & him opening his fuckin big mouth after the club have continually protected him he is already gone in my mind!
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#79 CraccerC

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Posted 03 Apr 2007 - 16:13

i hate seing the name baines thrown around, overrated.

and it suprises me to see liam talking about selling cahill, somethin i said at the start of the season that i was criticised and gang raped for suggesting
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#80 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 03 Apr 2007 - 16:39

i hate seing the name baines thrown around, overrated.

and it suprises me to see liam talking about selling cahill, somethin i said at the start of the season that i was criticised and gang raped for suggesting


I never said I'd sell Cahill, my hours of trying to explain myself obviously wasted :rolleyes:

What I said is should we have to "sacrafice" a player for the good of team building then Cahill would be the most logical choice from our current squad as he would draw the most funds while midfield is our most populated area!

I DO NOT WANT TO SELL CAHILL!!
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