Wallasey Tunnel Site - Why I'm Excited

[Louis]

A lot of you know where the tunnel is situated and will have been in the tunnel at one point or other. I have just looked it up and the tunnels to Wirral accomodate an average of 6400 vehicles an hour - that's both Kingsway and Queensway (the article I found was from 2003 so it's probably increased since then).

 

For arguments sake I will say 3000 of these use Wallasey tunnel. That is an average of 26,280,000 vehicles a year using the Wallasey Tunnel. All driving right the way around the stadium - as has been pointed out by October communications.. It is a very exciting prospect for advertisers and brands. This number doesn't include those driving past on Scotland Road.

 

If we move to the trumpet site. We will have one over our lovely neighbours. - we will be in the city centre. Our city centre. They'll be 2miles away out in Stanley Park.

 

We'll be served by Lime Street station (with trains running to the Wirral every four minutes) and direct links with every major city in the country and near the coach station in in Norton Street - oh and it's a 8 minute walk from the site.

 

The stadium will form part of the backdrop for the new look Liverpool skyline and to top it off we will be in Everton!

[Blue4Ever]

sounds good mate.

[Foxon]

sounds too good to be true

[Louis]

Skip (Kirkby) to the Loop

By Chris Multesanti : 01/08/2007

 

The Loop site is without doubt the best site for Everton’s new stadium. If the board fail to exploit this option, they will all be accountable for committing an unprecedented travesty to all fans of Everton Football Club. This will be explained shortly, but, firstly, why should we discount the forcing out of EFC to Kirkby?

 

It's not easy to summarise what it means to us to be part of this club, but I can safely say that I understand all that Everton means to me and my family, even if I can’t always express it. Part of my fabric as an Everton fans tells me that, before reviewing the stadium relocation in any detail, it just doesn’t feel right to even consider the plan to go to Kirkby. I would feel a great sense of loss and know that most Evertonians would feel cheapened if we are forced into a ground move that is effectively hollow, removed and quite possibly commercially destructive — it could seriously damage the future status of our club.

 

And before any Kirkby "Yes" voters say, "there’s no alternative," well, firstly, don’t panic. There may not be one on the table today by the club, but there is a very real alternative and with the right level of commitment by the club over the coming months they will champion it too — we will all embrace a site in the heart of Everton that could also be a co-financed move. We have waited almost a decade to decide on where to go, is 6 months going to hurt you? I fully support the "No" to Kirkby vote now, and will vote "Yes" to a move that suits the fan base in a few months.

 

If the board proves it is not conscientious, or if it is not a professional outfit, then perhaps Kirkby is the only choice, but I challenge them to prove that they are professional and would like to give them a chance to prove that after a "No" vote they still have the means to think beyond the desires of a retail giant.

 

At the moment that’s what is happening, we are being forced to support the desires of a retail giant.

 

At present, because it is so straight-forward to move to Kirkby we are being moulded to feel it’s the only way to go. It is for that reason that I cannot stomach the flippant comparisons being made between the proposed Kirkby stadium and Old Trafford’s location in Manchester. By making that comparison, Mr Wyness is just appearing 1. new, 2. naïve and 3. obnoxious, particularly by saying this on our website (not his) and preaching to the unconvertible.

 

Those who know a bit of local geography know that Kirkby is perceived as a much further distance from the centre of our city in comparison to the sports grounds that surround Manchester, and they also know that Manchester is in effect a circle and Liverpool an elongated conurbation so there is an awful lot of soulless green space between the Pier Head and Kirkby central! Much more relevant too, is that Old Trafford is a Manchester United fan's spiritual home. How can Mr Wyness, who however much he tries to sound like one of us, think that his quotes will help his cause. (By the way he supports Southampton and Aberdeen). He just shows a sincere lack of professionalism and understanding here.

 

A factual point that cannot be disputed is that Kirkby is not just beyond the city boundaries of Liverpool, its' beyond the city’s suburb boundaries. It is its own town, completely removed from our city and it has nothing to do with Everton Football Club. If Evertonians wish to have a Wigan Derby then vote "Yes" to the move, otherwise it remains completely logical to not be pressured, vote NO.

 

Enough negative psychology by the board…

The Loop Site — It's an Open Goal

 

Here follow 15 reasons why a move to Scotland Road’s Loop is critical to Everton’s future, and why it has to be urgently considered as the new ‘only option’ for our new ground:

 

1. Directors Duty: (note to Kenwright and Wyness):

Great work has begun at the Loop — in so far as the site owners, Bestway, have put forward a plan to develop this unique location into a football stadium. It is in Everton. They have started an initiative to bring a plan to the board. That means it is a real opportunity, black and white. This point alone means it cannot in any way be ignored by the Directors of EFC. It is the legal and moral duty of a football club Director to operate in the fans’ best interests and we are a fanbase painfully hoping that our new stadium is within the city.

2. It is geographically feasible:

The geographic scale of the land site for both a stadium and a handful of peripheral commercial buildings is ideal. This means once again that we can incorporate other developer — partners alongside Bestway and our own stadium financing plan.

3. Ownership:

The central location puts us firmly at the forefront of football and commerce in Liverpool city centre. We can not only be proud of a home ground at this location but its setting in an ever-developing, dynamic city centre means it will be seen as part of the modern blueprint (sorry!) in a commercially progressive city.

4. Tesco are the driving force behind Kirkby:

This may be the most relevant point of them all. By aggressively exploiting this opportunity at The Loop, and making it happen, Kenwright can prove that he is a different type of businessman than the one many see him currently to be. At present it seems he is far too hip-joined with the Tesco CEO and it all feels a bit too shady. Like everyone he appears to do business with, he counts Leahy as a close personal friend; you don’t have to be the cleverest Evertonian to know that the Kirkby move is unfortunately one of utter convenience for the two.

 

It seems very pre-mediated and driven from a Tesco standpoint - that alone is enough for the No vote.

 

Kenwright self-confesses to working with ‘great pals’ and ‘mates’ and like most of us who operate at (perhaps slightly) lower rungs of the commercial ladder, he is susceptible to taking the short cut or the easy route to getting things done. If there was much less at stake, fine, take the easy route because it’s a bit quicker, life’s pretty short and you only live once etc.

 

However when it involves the total displacement and undermining of Everton Football Club, the easy route is not good enough, nor remotely acceptable. It is neither responsible nor best practice. If he and the man who seems to be fronting the project (K. Wyness) could prove that they are up for the hard work of delivering a central city stadium, then they deserve to stay in their incumbent positions. If they do not look at The Loop as a very viable option, their resignations will be demanded by the thousands who have a stake in the club.

5. Not being beaten:

Liverpool FC’s recent unveiling of their own plans really has put a ‘now beat that’ message to us. If it hasn’t, it should have. With our budgets we may never build a stadium quite so contemporary nor quite so big and we need not do either, but Mr Kenwright, don’t underestimate Location in a two-club city. A Loop-based stadium will be far more evident to most of the city. Plus, just imagine this scenario, … if Liverpool fail with their planning permission for a much larger capacity stadium at Stanley Park, guess what, they may well look at the Loop.

6. Club’s Status and Image:

By developing at this unrivalled site we can be one-up on Liverpool FC. The nation’s visiting supporter (100,000 fans per season) will identify Everton’s ground as the sporting architecture in the heart of the city. Where else do you put the home of the People’s club?

7. Attendances:

We will fill our stadium if we stay central. We will retain 100% of the indigenous fanbase we currently have and attract a new crowd that feel happy with visiting a ground that is more fan- friendly (the stadium effect). No risk of pockets of empty seats. Moving to Kirkby however, is likely to be a large embarrassment because on telly our national and international image will be one of a club that cannot draw a decent gate.

 

Personal Footnote: as a London-based blue, who has done some canvassing on the trains with fellow Virgin super-savers at the end of last season, I know for a fact that the extra 40 mins or so each way to Kirkby at the end of the Lime Street journey — at best because road congestion is predicted to be drastic! — will prove a big time and cost barrier to many of the 900 or so Blues using this route to home games.

8. Access:

The road system at Scotty supports the capacity of a 50,000 stadium. There is actually better access here than the Kirkby site would have. Imagine the queuing off the motorway and singular A road at Kirkby? Anyone been to Reading away recently?

 

By re-locating within the city the club will also maintain its matchday ‘walk-up’ crowd which Everton can boast as the biggest in the Premiership. This crowd is lost with the Kirkby move, and all those walkers (thank god for spell-check) will become drivers and that’s not a jam I want to be in form the city centre!

9. Earning power:

It is a no-brainer that revenues will be higher when operating a stadium in the centre of a large city than one in a rural part of Merseyside. The Loop’s unbeatable position within the city will give Everton the kudos to really sell ourselves in the future as the team at the heartbeat of the city, to both commercial prospects, matchday corporate sponsors, corporate season ticket holders and even players considering joining the club.. they are human!.

10. Being proud of our club:

The Loop is a real destination. Visible from all parts of the centre, the first thing seen from the tunnel, and ‘down the road’ from Scouser’s front doors. Something all fans will hold dear to them with pride.

11. Brand:

The marketing people at the club, if they so wish, will be able continue to play off the Peoples Club mantra (which I personally think is slightly over-used) and moreover we Evertonians will feel we have a stake in a stadium that operates on the doorstep of the people that love the club so dearly. It made me chuckle to see ‘The People’s Club’ emblazoned across the architect’s impression of the Kirkby stadium – note to Wyness: Moyes was referring to blue shirts on the streets of Liverpool not Kirkby! Who signed these designs off?

12. Loss of identity:

Kirkby ensures this. I strongly believe that Evertonians will not be held to ransom and end up being a fan base ridiculed for its new routes. Let's not walk into this one, this may never happen but imagine if we were 1-0 down to Derby with 2 minutes to go and there were away chants of “you’re just a small town in Wigan” — it’ll hurt beyond belief! It's been bad enough trying to regain the credibility on the pitch over the last decade, if we lost our off-pitch identity what do we have?

13. Football clubs progress but stay true to their roots:

A new stadium at Scotland Road will be within our original birthplace as a football club and therefore aspirational to current and future generations of Blues. Imagine the difficulty of maintaining let alone extending Everton’s fan base through future generations if we are out of site and mind of our heritage. If we had a bad league run our fan base would erode at dramatic pace.

14. LCC will support it:

Yes finally! We have been assured that the Loop programme will get the right sort of momentum from local government and anything we submit now will have to get positive council support, as they know that after everything they have done with Stanley Park, LCC will be seen as supporting only one of the city’s clubs if they proved stubborn in any way.

15. Today I LOVE Goodison Park.

The Loop site will have a soul as well as a purpose and could fill the Goodison void – I can see how we will truly LOVE it.

 

We will not ever LOVE a Kirkby stadium. We may even HATE a Kirkby stadium.

[Tony]

7. Attendances:

We will fill our stadium if we stay central. We will retain 100% of the indigenous fanbase we currently have and attract a new crowd that feel happy with visiting a ground that is more fan- friendly (the stadium effect). No risk of pockets of empty seats. Moving to Kirkby however, is likely to be a large embarrassment because on telly our national and international image will be one of a club that cannot draw a decent gate.

 

 

Yep, we'll fill our stadium at the Loop. All 30,000 seats

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

A lot of you know where the tunnel is situated and will have been in the tunnel at one point or other. I have just looked it up and the tunnels to Wirral accomodate an average of 6400 vehicles an hour - that's both Kingsway and Queensway (the article I found was from 2003 so it's probably increased since then).

 

For arguments sake I will say 3000 of these use Wallasey tunnel. That is an average of 26,280,000 vehicles a year using the Wallasey Tunnel. All driving right the way around the stadium - as has been pointed out by October communications.. It is a very exciting prospect for advertisers and brands. This number doesn't include those driving past on Scotland Road.

 

If we move to the trumpet site. We will have one over our lovely neighbours. - we will be in the city centre. Our city centre. They'll be 2miles away out in Stanley Park.

 

We'll be served by Lime Street station (with trains running to the Wirral every four minutes) and direct links with every major city in the country and near the coach station in in Norton Street - oh and it's a 8 minute walk from the site.

 

The stadium will form part of the backdrop for the new look Liverpool skyline and to top it off we will be in Everton!

All sounds great but how do we pay for it?

[Maghull70]

All sounds great but how do we pay for it?

 

Arent Bestway offering a similar deal to Tesco??

 

If we are serious about the future (long term) then we have to try and get the Tunnel site. the prime location lends itself very nicely to revenue via advertising space and that would keep us financially healthy, well, forever really.

[GoldfishMemory]

Arent Bestway offering a similar deal to Tesco??

 

If we are serious about the future (long term) then we have to try and get the Tunnel site. the prime location lends itself very nicely to revenue via advertising space and that would keep us financially healthy, well, forever really.

 

Yes they are, a business plan is being prepared over the next month and could potentially be a better deal financially. Delaying the vote until we took a look at what was on offer would have been ideal, fair & in the best interest of the club IMO!!

[Maghull70]

Yes they are, a business plan is being prepared over the next month and could potentially be a better deal financially. Delaying the vote until we took a look at what was on offer would have been ideal, fair & in the best interest of the club IMO!!

 

I was once pro-Kirkby now I'm really hoping its a "NO" because I like the sound of the loop site. It simply makes sense for us to move there.

Now I know exactly what a "swinging voter" is.

[MikeO]

Don't really see how it can be directly compared to Kirkby when it's a ten acre site (Goodison is seven) and Kirkby is eighty acres. Not dismissing it as a possibility, just pointing out a huge difference in scale.

Edited August 11, 2007 by MikeO

[Louis]

Does the number of acres in Kirkby include the tesco?

[MikeO]

Does the number of acres in Kirkby include the tesco?

 

Presumably Louis, I assume it's the total area up for development....

[Bill]

Don't really see how it can be directly compared to Kirkby when it's a ten acre site (Goodison is seven) and Kirkby is eighty acres. Not dismissing it as a possibility, just pointing out a huge difference in scale.

 

Dont know if you are familiar with the area Mike, but the surrounding area of the loop site is considerably more than 80 acres of the Landfill site in Kirkby. Its the Scotland road, St Anne Street, and Geat Homer Street area surrounding the Site is the next stage of development once the City Centre is completed. The stadium would sit on its own on the loop site, and investors would clamour for the new development area immediately surounding.

 

[MikeO]

Dont know if you are familiar with the area Mike, but the surrounding area of the loop site is considerably more than 80 acres of the Landfill site in Kirkby. Its the Scotland road, St Anne Street, and Geat Homer Street area surrounding the Site is the next stage of development once the City Centre is completed. The stadium would sit on its own on the loop site, and investors would clamour for the new development area immediately surounding.

 

 

I don't know the area well at all Licker....I'm just going on what I read from all sides. Why if it's such a large area does the piece from Chris Multesanti talk about "a handful of peripheral commercial buildings ," doesn't give it a great sense of scale really.....and he's spinning massively in favour of the site.

Edited August 13, 2007 by MikeO

[Bill]

Sorry mike havent read the item, can you explain or give me a link.

[MikeO]

Sorry mike havent read the item, can you explain or give me a link.

 

The piece Louis posted further up the thread, though I've no idea who the writer is. Louis didn't say.

[Bill]

Sorry mike havent read the item, can you explain or give me a link.

 

Arh just seen it, that is on the actual site, room for hotels and such (Ten acres as opposed to seven acres of Goodison)

 

Scotland road to the Left of the site and St Anne street and Great Homer Street to the Right encircles the site and is all due for Modernisation as plenty of the Businesses are Run down and most Boarded up, new businesses or pubs, clubs, hotels, and supermarkets will always be drawn to new build or re-generation, More so in the City rather than the Outskirts.

 

I actually walked onto the Site on Friday to have a look, and the Bestway factory that is on there is almost as big as Goodison Park.

[Josh Berno]

If i am not mistaken Atletico de Madrid had the same situation as Everton and they managed to get arround it by building a tunnel on the road and building 1 of the stands on top of it. Its not letting me copy a image now so i will have to give you the link http://www.wsoccer.com/stadium/spain/atlet...id_stadium1.jpg

Edited August 14, 2007 by Josh Berno

[Romey 1878]

The BestWay plans are being released tomorrow.

[MikeO]

The BestWay plans are being released tomorrow.

 

Was supposed to be last Thursday according to KEIOC, any idea what the delay was?

[Romey 1878]

Was supposed to be last Thursday according to KEIOC, any idea what the delay was?

 

 

No idea mate, just seen on NSNO one of their admins talking about it.

[MikeO]

The Bestway Group is working with one the world's leading stadium architects, supported by a major international engineering firm, in order to help demonstrate the suitability of its Loop site as a new home for Everton.

 

HOK Sport - whose previous projects include Arsenal's Emirates Stadium and the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff amongst others - are to lend their expertise to the feasibility study. They are to be joined by WSP Group - a leading global and award-winning engineering consultancy with a specialist stadium team.

 

"The size and stature of these two companies shows how serious we are about the project and I know that the City Council shares our determination," said Bestway's Head of Property Malcolm Carter.

 

 

Early images of the kind of design that might work on the Loop site are due to be released. These were not produced by HOK but are intended to demonstrate how a stadium would look at this important city gateway location.

 

"We also remain committed to our existing business, and are continuing to make progress in securing a suitable location for this as part of any deal," added Mr Carter.

"If the ballot shows a majority of fans would prefer to stay in the City then we want to be in a position to sit down with the club and demonstrate that our site is a viable option."

 

Cllr Warren Bradley, City Council Leader, said: "The Loop site is a real possibility - companies with this background would not be involved with it otherwise - and I would hope that Everton would give it serious consideration. They owe it to their fans to consider this option."

 

The worrying line in that for me is...

 

"We also remain committed to our existing business, and are continuing to make progress in securing a suitable location for this as part of any deal,"

 

So they've got nowhere to put their cash & carry, and until they do it's a non starter.

Edited August 16, 2007 by MikeO

[Bill]

"So they've got nowhere to put their cash & carry, and until they do it's a non starter."

 

...

 

The whole area is up for re-generation and there is plenty of land all around the Loop, they will only have to Cross the road.

.

.

.

.

.

Or maybe Knowsley Council will offer them some spare land in Kirkby.

[Romey 1878]

Anyone seen the intitial picture? I know it's not a proper picture but I don't like it. It reminds me of Hampden Park, it's a bowl

[MikeO]

...it's a bowl

 

My thoughts exactly. But it's only an idea of what it could look like drawn on the back of a fag packet, not done by the (proper) architects. It could look worse/better on the proper drawings, if and when they come out.

 

Bestway Head of Property Malcolm Carter said: “We hope that fans can see that there is a reason for voting to keep Everton in Everton.”

 

Fans can also see how poorly briefed MrBestway is .

Edited August 16, 2007 by MikeO

[GoldfishMemory]

Great attitude we've got, EFC produce a nice little picture of a relativly simple stadium and feed us ever changing, limited information all within a 18 month timescale. KEIOC produce re-development plans & organise a massive campaign in 2 months and bestway and LCC produce a concept idea in 2 weeks and we as evertonians question it before its even past initial concept stage.

 

Imagin Everton hadnt signed an exclusivity agreement we would have several plans on the table now more indepth and factual than anything EFC have released to us!

[Bill]

The way i see it is ... first of all its a non starter until the results of the Vote is known.

 

If the vote is yes Kirkby will go ahead cos the Club want the Cheapest option thats going to cost the least amount of money.

but who's to say that Bestway and other investors, wouldnt put in more money than Tesco.

And Lets not forget that LCC have already said the land is ours if we want it.

 

If the vote is no, then the Club will bend over backwards to see as many options as poss, again to look for the cheapest one.

The problem is of course, that with the owner of Tesco now sitting on the Everton Board of Directors, it seems to me that the Kirkby stadium is a foregone conclusion, i dont care who is running the Ballot but i can only see one outcome to this, another brilliant bit of work by the board to ensure they get what they want, irrespective of how the supporters may think.

[MikeO]

Terry Leahy's not on the Board, think you're confusing him with Robert Earl who has nothing to do with Tescos.

[GoldfishMemory]

Terry Leahy's not on the Board, think you're confusing him with Robert Earl who has nothing to do with Tescos.

 

I thought he was a non executive director.

[MikeO]

I thought he was a non executive director.

 

Believe he advises the board, but he's certainly not on it.