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#1 Romey 1878

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 09:47

I got mine today. Read through the brochure (which is cack btw) and then crossed no, sealed it and I'll post it later.

Edited by Romey 1878, 07 Aug 2007 - 09:47.

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#2 Zed

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 10:13

Well I guess mine will be at home tonight,

TBH im very much 50:50 on what im going to do, I really dont know. Think I need to keep reading all of the available spin from both sides before I make my decision
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#3 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 10:20

I got mine today as well and its already on its way back with a yes from me!
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#4 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:41

How anyone can have made their mind up to vote yes on the information Everton have provided is beyond me!
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#5 StevO

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:49

i have two votes due to having my season tickets under another name a couple of years back. i might do one of each :huh:
seriously thou, im thinking i'll have to vote no.
i want scotland road
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#6 StevO

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:51

How anyone can have made their mind up to vote yes on the information Everton have provided is beyond me!


but Liam, if we vote no then Arteta will leave!
Dont forget he only signed his contract because of the kirkby move :angry:
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#7 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:57

but Liam, if we vote no then Arteta will leave!
Dont forget he only signed his contract because of the kirkby move :angry:


Is that somwthing the club have spun on us in the brochure??
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#8 StevO

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 12:05

not in the brochure, but it was on the website just after the pictures came out
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#9 Bluetrip

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 12:11

I know I'm a cynic but I it seems pretty obvious Baines official transfer announcement was delayed untill the ballot papers hit the doorstep.
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#10 MikeO

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 14:06

How anyone can have made their mind up to vote yes on the information Everton have provided is beyond me!


How anyone has ever voted Conservative in any election ever is a complete mystery to me Liam, but millions and millions (including my dad who in many ways was quite normal) have and do. You look at the options and make your choice and even people who don't agree with you are allowed their opinion sadly (I'd actually have all BNP and UKIP members humanely culled, but that's just my view :D ).

I'm actually quite relieved not to have a vote in this, because it's far more important to me than any political election will ever be (in this country anyway).

I'd just urge everyone to try and look beyond the spin of both sides and come to their own conclusions. It's a big responsibilty...good luck, and as I think I've said elsewhere, history will judge.
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#11 Romey 1878

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 14:12

not in the brochure, but it was on the website just after the pictures came out



Cahill says in the brochure the influence of moving Kirkby helped make him decide to sign a new contract. Bollocks that.
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#12 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 15:07

How anyone can have made their mind up to vote yes on the information Everton have provided is beyond me!

I found it quite an easy decision I just asked myself the following questions:
1. Do we need to move?
Ans Definatley yes
2. Can we afford to pay for a new ground by ourselves?
Ans Definately No

Its all good and well being sentimental and saying we need to stay within the city boundary but where is the money coming from? We cant afford to sit around waiting for a multi billionare sugar daddy to suddenly appear from nowhere. and after all its only 4 miles from Goodison anyway and you try telling Alan Stubbs hes not from Liverpool!
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#13 Bill

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 15:54

If you take your head out of the Everton brochure for a minute, you will find that more investment will come from other interested parties not only bestway, but hotel chains, because it is in the city centre and not out in the sticks, also will get more money for naming rites on the same basis, and LCC will provide us with the Tunnel/ Scotland road area because it is the next stage of the re-developement after the city centre is finished, and you will actually be playing in Everton.

How can you make a choice without looking into other options.
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#14 Louis

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 16:05

I got mine today as well and its already on its way back with a yes from me!



ban him!! :)
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#15 Bluetrip

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 16:06

I found it quite an easy decision I just asked myself the following questions:
1. Do we need to move?
Ans Definatley yes
What exactly is going to happen if we don't move right now? Just because Wyness tells us Goodison will fall down within 5 years it doesnt make it true, he has his own agenda to push.

2. Can we afford to pay for a new ground by ourselves?
Ans Definately No
By we, you mean Kenwright. He is not 'Everton', as much as he'd like to think so.


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#16 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 16:11

I found it quite an easy decision I just asked myself the following questions:
1. Do we need to move?
Ans Definatley yes
2. Can we afford to pay for a new ground by ourselves?
Ans Definately No

Its all good and well being sentimental and saying we need to stay within the city boundary but where is the money coming from? We cant afford to sit around waiting for a multi billionare sugar daddy to suddenly appear from nowhere. and after all its only 4 miles from Goodison anyway and you try telling Alan Stubbs hes not from Liverpool!


We will get the same or similar funding deals with the commercial partners for both the bestway proposal & re-development plus the bestway site will be worth 20-30mil more in naming rites so that deal could be worth about 20 mil more than the Kirkby deal!

I dont care about the Kirkby in / out of liverpool argument I know the score as I live in Sefton, thats not my reasoning.

Your response is one of someone who doesnt know or hasnt understood the opposition argument. Staying in the city will cost us nothing more than moving to Kirkby and in a whole could turn out to be a far better option financialy.

Going back to your original points.

1. Do we need to move? YES, vote yes we go to kirkby, vote no and we have at least three options to choose from.
2. Can we afford to pay for a new ground by ourselves? NO thats why 50mil from the hotel chain backing the bestway deal & 20mil more from naming rights on scottie road is a far better deal than Tesco & kirkby!


Your vote, your choice.
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#17 Zed

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 18:48

NO thats why 50mil from the hotel chain backing the bestway


That seems like a massive figure for just a hotel near the city centre

Ive been listening to both sides of the arguments and still havenet made my mind up, why has this bestway deal only surface at the 11th hour when we have been searching for sites for 18months (so the brochure says)
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#18 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 19:02

That seems like a massive figure for just a hotel near the city centre

Ive been listening to both sides of the arguments and still havenet made my mind up, why has this bestway deal only surface at the 11th hour when we have been searching for sites for 18months (so the brochure says)


I'm actually incorrect with the previous statement Zed the hotel chain are interested in the re-development of Goodison along with a hotel & private appartments. I dont know the details of where, how or how much money is involved.

The bestway site doesnt yet have a comercial partner but several large companys have expressed interest in working with LCC & Everton on the site so matching the 50mil input from Tesco is easil achievable.

Here's another interesting piece,

Don't believe the hype

By roy warne
Date: 7/8/2007

If there is one thing that both the 'yes' and 'no' Kirkby camps can agree on, then it is that the main priority for Everton FC is to attract major investment with the hope of closing the gap financially on 'the big four', and a handful of others, who are pulling away from us.


Both camps also agree that the proposed new stadium will not be one of the better new stadiums built, due to the modest amount of money available to build it (in top Premiership club terms) and that Kirkby as a location is certainly not the best, given a choice.

The pro-Kirkby crowd point out that having a new 50,000 seater stadium with extensive corporate facilities will increase our value in terms of assets and make us far more attractive to the thus far elusive wealthy American/Russian, etc. investor. Therefore they are prepared to make a sacrifice on the quality and location of the ground as there is a genuine opportunity for Everton's financial status to be revived.

The logical question that follows then, is: can we still attract investment if we don't move to Kirkby? Bill Kenwright and Keith Wyness state that we cannot. They would have us believe that whilst Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Southampton, Tottenham, West Ham, et al. have all had significant investment in very recent years, that there is no one out there to invest in Everton Football Club.

This stance by the board needs to be challenged as it cannot be correct, for two reasons.

Firstly, Everton FC has one of the richest and most successful histories in the English game, and more importantly from an investment point of view, is a permanent fixture in the top flight with one of the most consistent and loyal supports, irrespective of form.

Anyone who knows anything about the British game knows that Everton are the only 'big' club left for investment. Secondly, and this is by far a more salient point, Everton FC are currently 18th on the Deloitte Football Money League, which is the most reputable assessment of the wealth of football clubs globally. The figures relate to turnover, which is the fundamental concern for potential investors as it relates directly to 'money-making opportunity'. Only seven English teams lie above us, and they are all crossed off the list marked 'clubs available for investment'. We therefore HAVE TO be rife for investment, especially as this new trend for foreign investment is only just gathering momentum.

For this to be true, there has to be a reason why the club are misleading us and why they are touting Kirkby as the only option. Bill Kenwright knows that he has to sell the club sooner or later. If, however, he can sell the club whilst we are residing in a new 50,000 seater stadium in Kirkby, then he is set to walk away with substantially more money than he would if we sold now, as the value of the club's assets would be far greater.

Bill Kenwright therefore has a massive conflict of interest in the whole Kirkby proposal, as his personal wealth is greatly affected. Can we trust this businessman? His moral get-out is achieved by giving the fans a vote on the issue; however as a businessman he would have assumed that by controlling the propaganda, providing the supporters with one sided information within the voting package (which makes a mockery of the vote being fair, by the way), by getting the employees of the club such as the manager and players to publicly back the move, and by controlling the local media, who are in the back pocket of both of the city's football clubs, he would have been convinced that the fans would back the move.

A good businessman can sell sand to the Arabs, and we, the gullible, loyal sheep are the ones being offered this sand. Anyone acting in the best interests of the club at this time would suspend the vote due to the clear significant numbers strenuously opposed to going to Kirkby. Why does it have to be a do or die scenario? Why can't the club's Kirkby proposal be put on the shelf? How can it be that some people don't smell a rat?

Another factor that a lot of people don't seem to appreciate, is that as part of the Kirkby proposal we have already attracted investment, i.e. Tesco. Tesco, who would invest a substantial multi-million pound figure into Everton Football Club for them to build a ground, are not doing this to help Everton out of a hole, they are doing it because they stand to make vast amounts of money out of it themselves by having the biggest supermarket in the country on the same site. This is only possible because of the commercial power of Everton Football Club. Put simply, Everton FC are a massive brand who can make other companies money. This is why Bestway are now looking to get involved on a proposal for an alternative project (i.e. The Loop).

Tesco, who are clearly the only astute players in this set up, know the attraction of Everton FC, hence them dictating the 'exclusivity period' as a term of the deal. Why would they do this unless they didn't fear another business partner would come along to snap up a joint venture with Everton FC?

The one good thing about the Kirkby offer is that it has splashed Everton FC all over the media, made people more aware of our plight and propelled us into the shop window. It has also embarrassed Liverpool City Council into action, who unlike on previous occasions when the club has tried dealing with them, are now led by an Everton season ticket holder.

So Evertonians, do not underestimate our power as a brand, do not ignore the ever-increasing economic boom that is happening under our noses in Liverpool City Centre and the fact that there will be businesses and investors out there ready to work with Everton if we want them. Don't think that if we knock Kirkby back that we are not going to get another opportunity again. Don't fall for the propaganda. Don't just accept the first mediocre offer that comes along just so Mr Kenwright can cash in. As someone else has said recently, when the right deal comes along we won't need a vote because we will know it will be right.

This Kirkby one, deep down, we all know isn't right.


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#19 Zed

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 19:44

Im leaning toward no more and more
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#20 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 19:49

Im leaning toward no more and more


Zed everyones vote is their own but this is the basis if my thinking.

Voting yes closes the options & voting no opens the options no more, no less.

There are sites and there are comercial parners, nothing is confirmed or officially on the table yet but lets be realistic we are a massive business, maybe not the biggest club these days but a massive business non the less!
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#21 sheedysheedysheedy

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 20:04

I've been think about this for weeks and changed my mind several times. Now I've got the ballot papers I'm still no nearer deciding what is best for the club. However, what has really pissed me off is the way that the media men have gone about it,
1. Releasing pictures of what a new ground "could" look like like it's been created in a football management game,
2. Releasing articles by players who apparently only signed contracts because of the potential of playing in a shiny new stadium. Call me cynical but will Cahill and Arteta been lining up for us in 2012?
3. Telling us there's no Plan B like it's this or nothing which sounds like a thinly veiled threat.
4. Faking a major bid for a 'world class' player to show fans what the future could be like (Ok I'll seriously backpedal if we sign Gonzalez but haven't we seen this pathetic attempt at winning the fans over numerous times before?).

I feel like they're taking the piss and assume we're all dickheads who'll look at the nice pictures and forget that it's gonna be in another town.

I feel a bit sad that I'm basing my decision on this rather than what I feel is best for the club and the fans but that's how it is.....NO!

Edited by sheedysheedysheedy, 07 Aug 2007 - 20:05.

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#22 Bill

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 20:06

"That seems like a massive figure for just a hotel near the city centre"

I'm not as clued up as liam seems to be with figures, but i did read somewhere that the site has been a bit of a wilderness since the Tunnel Loop went in and no investers wanted to take the chance because it was a bit cut off from the city centre, but LCC has said that it is the next stage for developement after the City of culture upgrade has finished in the City.

LCC has said that the stadium would bridge that gap, and also said that several investors had already shown interest, one of which was a hotel chain, when you think about it theres nowhere better to have a hotel, straight out of the tunnel into your hotel car park, then in the morning out of your hotel and straight into the tunnel, no pissing about in and out of the city Traffic.

And as Louis has already pointed out the naming rights would be doubled, when you think of the amount of traffic going past the stadium every day it must be an advertisers perfect dream scenario, the only traffic that would see it in Kirkby is a few Tesco delivery lorries visiting the Industrial Estate.

Think about it very carefully, there is a plan B, and a plan C, and maybe a few more will surface once this exclusivity deal is given the Elbow.
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#23 Jackelz

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 21:23

im a NO. if were patient we will find the right move for the club there shouldnt be such a rush to go to kirkby. Sooner or later someone is going to come in with money and will pay for a new stadium in the city lets think of this situation long term and not be won over by wyness's persuasive talks.
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#24 Adams

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 22:18

If anyones undecided then vote no. Because like Goldy said; voting no only opens up more options, whilst voting yes closes all options


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#25 StevO

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Posted 08 Aug 2007 - 10:02

big fat no went in the post last nite.
i'll be eagerly waiting for loop plans
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#26 Zed

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Posted 08 Aug 2007 - 11:14

If anyones undecided then vote no. Because like Goldy said; voting no only opens up more options, whilst voting yes closes all options


That is what I have come to think, and despite all the long winded discussion that one line sums up why everyone should vote no
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#27 CraccerC

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Posted 08 Aug 2007 - 12:31

at the moment kirkby is the only option..... if you want to wait an extra 5 years for another feasibility study then by all means vote no. but beware that voting no if you are undecided will delay any ventures into other possibilities by years most likely. so rather than have a stadium in 2010s you'd be looking more towards 2020

everton have stated that kirkby is the only option for the time being. just because KEIOC says it has other options doesn't mean everton have or will consider them as the two parties have different interests

Edited by CraccerC, 08 Aug 2007 - 12:32.

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