swisstiss

Well lads, quite a strange one really. No doubt Williams is an excellent player, feel he will strengthen the squad, albeit with less sustainability in the medium term given he's 32 but didn't show many signs of ageing last season. Seems Koeman wants proven reliabiliy. It doesn't surprise me because ultimately if he's to improve his stock as a manager, by getting guaranteed better results than last season, even if he only stays at the club for two years, his focus will be on proven success, not sustainability. The others seem decent, Gueye, Bolasie, can't knock Bolasie from last season was a handful! I really rate him and I think he will be very good for you. Still do not rate Stekkers from his time with us but hey, maybe he'll rediscover his form with you lot....like he has already tried with Monaco and Saints but still... Holding onto Lukaku was a great achievement but I still feel like your window was a bit underwhelming, excuse the directness. It was banded around that one of the key reasons Koeman left us for you was about money, since you had a new owner, and Saints financial power was never going to match Moshiri. The Liebherr's are great but giving a pot of 50m without sales every window is just not something they are going to do. It ties into strategy/Saints ambition because for Koeman he sees another window where the owners aren't ready to commit the big bucks and cement a top 8 place. Instead we sell three quality players and bring in young tots to replace them. In any case, I'm really surprised that Everton didn't spend more, not that it's all about money, but according to what's out there on transfer fees, seems you could have spent 45m and us 44m. Not that different, and I would have expected you to blast us out the water. When Everton were linked with Axel Witsel and the like, I figured it made sense that Koeman went. Top quality signings, clear strategy of not just keeping the ship afloat like Martinez did but rather pushing on and likely finishing top 6. The thing is that four or five years ago that would have been a solid transfer window for you. But let's not look at your signings in isolation. Leicester spent 70m this window, and Watford for Pete's sake spent 50m. I'm not saying we've got it right by the way, I think Southampton will finish 10th or thereabouts. But I wonder if Everton's window has really given the push that you needed to finish top 6 or so again. I'm not sure it has, sorry to say! Be interested to hear your thoughts. Saints will be alright, main thing for us is that we've always had a focus on youth/academy prospects. Academy hasn't been so successful last few years, and those that have come through (Shaw, Chambers, Lallana) we've sold. So we've brought youth in, Hojbjerg is 21 and Redmond and Boufal both 22. We have now the second youngest squad in the league, and that says a lot. We want to go back to the 'Saints Way' (whatever that means) of developing young players and we've got a manager who reflects that now. Bear in mind last two seasons Koeman hardly played any youth and publically said the academy wasn't up to scratch - in fairness he was probably right..

Have him. He reminds me of Carlton Palmer. Has a tendency of going from complete mediocrity - no control, no vision, little defensive nous, explaining why Twente fans were so surprised we bought him (although the fact that Erwin Koeman managed there suggests this was his transfer allocation...) - to fairly proficient attacking football, good height in the box and composed passing (the defensive nous is still not really there, though). Add onto that the fact he seems like he's a good lad who likes a laugh on the training ground and is well liked by the squad, who scored possibly one of the greatest Saints goals I've ever seen at St Marys... He's earned a weird place in our history as this unpredictable conundrum with an increasing cult following. He won't be anything special, and will probably be resigned to a permanent backup to the next man. He can be alright, even having good games, and our opinion of him was largely affected by the fact he was better than a troubled Cedric Soares. In other words, we thought of him as better than he might be, simply because he provided a minimum of what we required from a right back. Soares was liable of being run over at times last season. Expect him to go now we have bought Pied in, who Puel knows well and hasn't brought in to be a third choice. He'll compete with Soares.

Fair, good points. Interested to know your thoughts on my post above, whether you've got an opinion on Koeman already after pre season and this summer's activity.

Really? Comparing him to Mane at a similar price...he's older, less technical and creative, still a cracking signing though. Solid since Palace came back up to the first division. For 20m he's worth it.

In any case, my point still stands and it's more a club thing than a Koeman thing. Mind you, I'm happy to accept that this is Koeman's philosophy that he wasn't able to implement at Saints because they have an established scouting strategy/dept. The only reason we got Austin is because yes he's experienced PL player but more because he's only 26.. He's not in the bracket as Williams, Dann or Fonte. Bolasie agreed would be fantastic for you if you can pull him off. Add some pace upfront to complement the height/ball delivery.

He could have afforded the 3 players you've signed (one under Martinez) at Southampton, too. 5m for Gueye and very little for Stek. Don't read this as Koeman's strategy. This is all about club and recruiting strategy. Southampton scout well and prefer young players that they can develop, who fit the ethos/values of the club. Their first team signings are all 10-15m bracket.

Well that's not true: Van Dijk Clasie Martina Cedric Redmond Tadic Austin Pelle Romeu Mane Forster Juanmi Djuricic (loan, never signed) Elia (loan, never signed) Stekkers (loan, never signed) Caulker (loan, never signed) Alderweireld (loan, never signed) Of those signed basically during the Koeman era, only Austin and Redmond had played in the premier league before. Loan's don't count, since if you are paying high price for a loan, you don't have time to develop them. You need immediate proven cover. Of the signings Redmond isn't exactly experienced premier league, he's still young. So basically Austin is our only proven premier league signing.

So lads. It's been a month or so since I posted. Signed Stekkers from Fulham and that lad from Villa. Stekkers is not rated by Southampton fans. He was seen as a clever move back when Forster was injured and an able stand in, but he never convinced. Sorry to be so blunt, but better to let you know what you've got. He was once a fairly decent Dutch int'l keeper, but he made mistakes and wasn't a leader at the back in the same way Forster is. Saints fans feel Gazzaniga arguably prove himself as capable to step up as Stekkers. Gueye was linked with us when Koeman was here. He seems alright, decent, cheap addition to your midfield. Adds a bit of muscle and can play the ball which is always nice, although your midfield seemed alright last season and I would have taken a couple of those players to Saints. I suppose you could say that if you had world class midfielders maybe there wouldn't be so many cock ups at the back with Martinez love of playing the ball out the back, but hey. It's important to note that Koeman loves to play the ball out the back (not in a tedious and risky way like Martinez), but it's probably that Gueye has been signed to be the kind of midfielder that can add muscle, and drop back between the back two to shift them out wide and give more space on the ball. Koeman has explicitly talked about this tactic before and Wanyama did it a lot at Saints. I wouldn't have said Gueye is the kind of signing you need to push on to CL places, since he's alright, but not world beating. Shame you seemed to have missed out on Witsel, think he was exactly the kind of player to add presence and speed to the midfield, but anyway. Who knows what other signings will come. Only point to say now is that I think you are relying a lot on the other midfielders to be able to play the ball in a tight space and making plays. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on Koeman thus far. I haven't been impressed by him in the transfer window, since all the talk was about a "war chest" and 100m to spend. Not seen much of that, or the claimed transfer ambition, yet, though there's still time. Are you happy with his showings in pre-season? I guess you, like us on the south coast, are holding off until Sep 1 to make any kind of reasoned judgement on the summers dealings. Saints? We're alright. Redmond is a good prospect, lively but not going to replace Mane 1-1. Hojbjberg, our new midfielder to replace Wanyama, is the dogs nuts. In a good way. He's a young, 20 year old silky smooth ball playing midfielder. Reminds us of Schneiderlin. His pedigree is Bayern, and he's my tip for fantasy football. Almost every first team player has signed a contract extension this summer, with most staying at the club until 2020. That's arguably the best news of the summer. Commitment to the long term vision and all that. Puel, new manager, seems alright. Untested but an encouraging pre-season. New style of play, also.

Told ya. This is the least surprising rumoured move I've heard in a long while. Also don't downplay the Witsel links. Koeman loved Schneiderlin when he was with us, possibly why Morgan decided to stay on another year before moving to Utd. Witsel is a very similar ballplaying midfielder who can put in a tackle and a pass with equal skill.

Of those mentioned in press, typically clueless and jumping on the band wagon and throwing names around, club don't want Villas Boas or Frank de Boer, and Moyes no chance at all. Tuchel hasn't even been mentioned,. Unai Emery (of Sevilla), Eddie Howe, Pelligrini and 1 other - unknown - are at the top of the list, this is all coming from an In The Know (who works for the club we understand). Vitor Pereira has also been mentioned. I hear that the club will not rush the appointment and are not panicking.

I'm inclined to agree, although some things are true. It is true that contract talks were progressing and had reached the stage of discussing key transfers for this summer (that's not surprising, since I think these conversations would take place quite often with a current manager). It's also true that he changed agents, and that after the change the rumours about his move to Everton surfaced. It's also true that the club have gone from publicly very happy with him (our end of year awards was basically a big smooch-up for Koeman, saying how brilliantly this season had gone and that we're looking forward to next season), to a leaving tweet with no thanks at all. In fact, the club media quite apart from other players that have left on good terms in the last few years (notably Schneiderlin, Shaw, Lambert), which have been all about 'thanks for their good service and wishing them luck', that the media has been very quiet. Pochettino's departure was in similar circumstances. I'm not saying it's true, but it does lead me to wonder what happened behind the scenes. It's gone from happy clappy to cold turkey in a matter of weeks (don't we all know that feeling). The bitterness was never that Koeman was too good, and now he's terrible. 1. It was about his character, that we had thought he was committed and true to his word. He's obviously gone back on that now, and that has soured our view of him understandably. It's not to say his skills of being a manager are in question, just his character. And I think you can see why we'd say that. 2. Football is a game of consequences. If the ball goes in the net, it was a good move. If you try some tricks or even hoofing the ball and you don't put the ball in the net, people question what the heck you were thinking. In this case, the rumours of Koeman staying was a statement that Saints fans wanted to cling to, and something to hold on to, that he was committed to Southampton and that he saw opportunity in us, and that football was about more than just money. So we jumped on that bandwagon, heartly affirming that this was a good move. In other words the rumours that he was staying got a really positive response from us, since he's been good for us. Now that he has gone to Everton, it's brought out the worst in him and us. It's put into question our board (which looked to be making savvy decisions what with successfully giving top players new contracts), our ambition for the next 5 years, our finances, and ultimately, our attractiveness as a club. The reaction to that from Saints fans has been wholeheartedly awful. We're disappointed in the club, feel betrayed, and some of that has rubbed off on how we have talked about EFC. In other words it's gone from being 'yeah, they are more similar to us than before, the balance of the league is changing what with Leicester's title win' to, 'Is that really what we are? Just a selling club in player and manager?'. And the flipside of that is that fans have come out in a bitter tone against EFC which is a shame. In any case, my opinions the same, that it is less risky to take Everton who have been struggling, than Southampton who have been doing well. It's guaranteed almost that you'll improve and push for Europe next season. That isn't guaranteed with us. If he wants to take a bigger job than Everton, Barcelona and Netherlands team he's mentioned, then it's a greater guarantee of success. But I don't think that that is an indication of either club, actually. I don't think Saints fans should be so downbeat (thinking that because he's left it means we don't have ambition), and I don't think Evertonian's should be so positive he's joined (it shows that you have ambition and this is the start of something great). I mean that in the politest and most gentle way. I just don't think that the move shows either. RK's career as a manager was unknown to a lot of us (his playing days aside) two years ago, and yet now he has the power to determine whether one club is 'bigger', 'has more ambition' or has a 'better future' than the other? Nonsense. I think you'll have a good season, and I think we might finish 12-13 next season, but that's fine and probably more a reflection of chance, player purchases and the like as it is down to the difference Koeman will make. Football is football.

Hi. Emphasizing the following is not my own, but a compilation of various ITK snippets posted on twitter, NewsNow linked articles and the SaintsWeb Forum, and now reappeared in a nice succinct form in a comment on The Guardian: edit - thanks Romey got there before me --- 1. Koeman left for 1 week holiday with a new contract verbally agreed, transfer budget and expected transfer outs and transfer in targets agreed. 2. Everton approached his (now ex-) agent, to offer him the position, double the salary we were offering and a huge transfer budget. His ex-agent turned them down without informing RK (going off previous conversations they had had, and his clear message in press conferences near the end of the season about a desire to show loyalty and to stay, at least for next season). 3. Koeman discovered his agent didn't tell him, got angry and fired him. He instructed his new agent to begin discussions, but potentially with a view to leveraging more 'ambition' (i.e. transfer budget and wage budget) out of Saints. 4. Saints-unbeknownst to RK- had actually had some concerns about RK for some time (poor relationships with certain players, ignoring young players and the academy pathway to the first team, some compromises with the teams philosophy of play, etc). The attempt to use Everton to prize more "ambition" out of the club showed he wasn't a good fit with the club any more, and it was decided he could take the Everton offer (but only if they conceded to the club's demands) or be put on gardening leave for the last year of his contract. This backfiring of his attempt to manipulate Saints led to him taking a 2nd week of holiday and the bizarre, long delay before Everton got their man. 5. There is a supposition that actually he wasn't that interested in the Everton job, and that he'd have preferred to carry on at Saints with a view to ultimately positioning himself for either his dream job (Barca) or one of the top 5 PL jobs (it is believed he thought he could be a prime candidate to replace Wenger whenever he retires). Despite the huge budget and salary, he has more to lose about getting a shot at a top job by starting afresh with such wonderful financial conditions as Everton now have, as if he can't spend money there and get success, it will be deemed he shouldn't manage a top club. The irony being he's now been pretty much forced to take the Everton job. There have been pretty consistent whispers in the last couple of weeks that a few players at Saints are delighted he's going. The statement the club has put out shows they are clearly livid (in its terseness and absence of any explicit gratitude for his work). I am grateful, and he did a lot right. It's staggering what we have achieved after so much unrest both summers, to have actually ended up improving each season. Incredible. My gut instinct, though, is that the way we track potential managers 2 or 3 years in advance and keep a continual short-list of possible replacements that fit our philosophy (in the way every club does with players) means that this might be an opportunity for improvement rather than a disaster. Thoughts?

Nor was I, I wasn't even born... Not sure what you're trying to get at. Noone is in any doubt about the fact we've been at the bottom for a long time, least of all Saints fans. We're delighted to tell our story of Division 2 obscurity to Europa League!! When I was growing up there was a club called Wimbledon. They don't even exist anymore. Oh, and Forest won the European Cup

Great question. So absolutely, Pelle. He had him in Feyenoord then in Saints. If you lose Lukaku, Koeman will see a need for a target man who can link play (not just height in the box, but a player who has a football brain). Hand's down Pelle fits that. Other than that, he has lots of praise for Clasie, who also played for him in Feyenoord, Virgil van Dijk (who has undoubtedly been one of our best players last season) and Forster, the keeper. Any other player I could choose, like Long who he's praised a lot (in answer to a fan's question event on his favourite player last season, Koeman's answer was not to dodge the Q, but say Shane Long based on his improvement in the last year - which is true), or Tadic who he signed because of his contact with him in the Dutch league, or even Jose Fonte who Koeman has lauded because of his captaincy and leadership. All those players are just good players, but not particularly special to him. Mane isn't a big fan of RK since he openly criticised his performances and fined him once or twice for being late. Van Dijk, Pelle, Clasie and Forster have no doubt a special place in his thinking. Of those, Clasie just arrived in the South coast with a young family, Forster just signed a long term contract and feels loyalty to the medical dept for their help in his recovery from ACL, and Van Dijk just signed an even longer (6 year!) contract, after only 1 year of being here. Oh, and don't be surprised that three of those players are defensive minded . Bigger question is how reliable are player contracts in this day and age, and will we see a growing disconnection between contracts and length of commitment (what I mean is, in today's world of moneyball is a long contract just a reflection of price tag rather than the player's intention to stay). So who knows what these new contracts mean, they could go this summer with as quick a turn around as RK had. But I wouldn't be surprised if Pelle went to EFC. That's my view. Any other would be more or less a surprise to me, or as likely to go to EFC as any other club.

Saints Fan here again. Well, well done. You've bagged the man that took us to our highest two league finishes in the PL season, so that's not to be sniffed at. You'll notice from our press release that we didn't actually thank RK for his time, and we said our "focus now is to build on our long-term plan, and work with a new management team who share both the club’s and our supporters’ values and ambitions.?" Most Saints fans think it's a veiled jibe that RK somehow didn't fit our values and ambitions, whether that means he was more ambitious than the club in the short term, or that he wasn't ambitious enough, isn't clear. Nor whether or not the values was relevant. Artur Boruc' hilarious tweet which basically said that RK is money grabbing shouldn't be taken lightly (even though he is a total nutcase). I guess that player-manager relations - not just for Boruc we hear - weren't always as happy as club media made out with all this trashy 'outtakes' and 'xmas fun' videos. Anyway. Thought I'd come back amid the flak between EFC and Southampton fans about ambition. Feels a bit bitter, and I think I've never read so many posts with "history" in. Here's the deal, if you are a right thinking Everton fan: We're aware that Everton has a bigger stadium, though we're both still way below the 50 or 60 thousand seaters that the top clubs have. Everton have a great footballing history and while everyone is talking about Southampton "pushing for European places", it's obvious Everton have occupied that title for a lot longer. What frustrates us is that we've really seen a sea-change in the speed at which the club is moving forward in the last 7-8 years. Nicola Cortese came in and brought with him a vision for the club (already there, though) and since then I have felt nothing but year-on-year success, ambition, backroom strengthening and the club being much tighter around it's vision, values, mission statement etc. I feel in the last 5-10 years (or even since the turn of the millenium after we moved to St Marys) that the club is a lot more coherent than it ever has been in what it is aiming to do and how it will carry that out. Let's not forget we've come from League 1 (OK, administration blah blah blah, writing off debts blah blah blah, but you get my point). For Saints fans at the moment it feels like the skys the limit. Forgive us, for a second. Yes you can say we don't have as rich a history - although I think the south-coast footballing history is very strong and has a great heritage. Us and the skates had more time on the pitch together in years gone by, granted, but the rivalry is still rich. We feel that the transfer policy of the last 10 years, significant youth players sold for reasonable profit, getting back into European football, highest ever PL finishes, our brand name/supporter base growing around the world, it's all pointing toward an ambitious, developing club. Yes we're still only an average home stadium capacity, and we've not won that much, but we feel we're on the way up. We've finished above you the last couple seasons and you might see that as a blip ("finishing below Saints is embarrassing") but we don't, maybe we're deluded but I really think the club is on the rise. For RK to go to Everton isn't a big deal, at the end of the day. There's multiple reasons. But why now, that's the question of Saints fans. If there was ever a time in SFC history to stick around, surely this was it? What could possibly have put him off? That's our issue. I feel that Everton being a bigger club who are sleeping, and Saints being a smaller club who are soaring, what's the difference? We're both just as likely to be pushing for Europe next season, the only difference being we've not been doing that as long. But there's never certainty in football. You can't say that the history of Forest or Leeds or even Wednesday (?!) counts for a great deal. At one time they were dead certain to remain well managed (arguably) and solid clubs. For us, the issue is what questions this asks of SFC. With all the momentum and not just hope but proven results of the last 5 years, why would someone leave at the very time the wave is at it's biggest? I guess the question remains now, and what Ronald's leaving has thrown up, is, is this a sign that the wave is about to come crashing down? I.e. are we about to lose our manager (gone) and best players, and eventually turn the corner and find we're running out of ideas and start falling down the league. That's why we're frustrated. So there it is. The ambition and success of the last 5-10 years is the reason we are so optimistic, call us deluded, and the reason we are stunned that RK would go to Everton now of all times. I wish you, and him, the very best and he's a really nice genuine guy (besides the leaving fiasco, whatever went on). We march on...