nogs

But that's my entire point - it's not about what you do in the transfer market, it's about what we do on the pitch, where we certainly do compete! Seriously, the way some people talk it is almost as if they enjoy the transfer spectacle more than the football!

Ho-hum, same old from Everton fans, grass is always greener on other side... I gave up posting messages on here last year after the all the negativity and anger coming from fans coz we hadn't signed anyone. It seemed that negativity translated to the squad, too, coz we had a shocking start to the season and it all looked doom and gloom. Then, what do you know, we start getting some players back, we go on a run of form that, had we started like that from day one, would have had us finishing in the top four no problem, we qualify for Europe again, and we reach the FA Cup final. So much for the 'crisis' everyone was predicting last summer. The thing is now with all the money washing around football, and all the agents manipulating moves to line their own pockets, and the media hyping it all up, we've all come to EXPECT our teams to make five, six signings every summer. Why? Ok, if Everton have ambitions to win the league we need a few better players, but we all know the financial realities of our club, we all know that our only option is the long road, so why are we getting frustrated? The fact of the matter is that our first team squad - albeit it smaller than most - is the envy of all but four teams in the Premier league. We have quality and competition for places in every position, as proven last season by how we coped with a horrendous run of bad luck injury wise. Bar a right back, who exactly do we need to sign to improve a fully-fit matchday squad of Howard, Baines, Jags, Lescott, Yobo, Hibbert, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Osman, Neville, Gosling, Rodwell, Yak, Saha, Vaughan, Anichebe and Jo? I am too young to remember the '87 championship winning side, so I reckon this is easily the best side in my living memory. And as for getting jealous of City - they're not in Europe and they'll be lucky to win a cup this year. you can throw all the money you like at players, but it takes time to make any team gel - just ask Spurs fans (and before someone says 'Chelsea', Ranieri had them in the top three before Mourinho took over)

FFS, listening to some of you chat rubbish is like listening to those whinging bar stewards in red constantly bleating on about their players 'not being good enough for Liverpool'... leave the dissing their own to them lot, fellaini is one of us now and I for one think he has been great so far this season, he adds bite and physical presence in the middle of the park, he can pass the ball, and he's dangerous in the opposition box... some of you lot want the moon on a stick! Incidentally, talking of snivelpool, some of my red's mates have said how good they think fellaini has looked for us and how they wouldnt mind him in their team... bear in mind these are lads that would never normally dream of saying anything remotely complimentary about a Blue, and scoffed at the Yak for 'only scoring 20' last season... so he must be doing something right... Oh, and finally, on the subject of pace in the Prem... Viera, Keane, Petit, Alonso, Makelele, Scholes, Speed (later in career anyway) - not exactly blessed with bundles of pace were they, yet they all had what you might call decent careers in centre mid. have a word.

It never rains but it pours hey... Mind you, I've been thinking about this... I've been one of the ones urging Moyes to leave 5-4-1 and play two up top, but by anyone's standards it has hardly been a roaring success this season. I ripped into them like everyone else after the Wigan match and said on here I wanted to see if they could come up with a response at Shite Hart Lane, which I doubted. Lo and behold, I was wrong, and we looked like our old selves again yesterday - playing 4-5-1. Yeah there's no doubting we're now faced with a pretty major striker crisis, but under Moyes we've never really relied on our forwards to get the bulk of the goals anyway, bar the Yak last year. We all knew what Saha's record was like when he arrived, Moyes said he would be happy if he could get him out half the games so him being out is no surprise. I hate to say it, but I can't see how Vaughny's knee can keep going and him still have a career ahead of him - it's a shame, but I dont think he's ever going to shake it off. The Yak is the real sickener of course, him being out for the season would seriously damage any side. BUT, always looking on the bright side, put it this way - we have a midfield full of players who are good going forward and capable of getting a goal, and the way Moyes likes to play with one up top gives them all the freedom to do that. If there was one of our four strikers I'd want to be fit to play the loan striker role, it would be big Vic - he's strong as an ox, great at holding the ball up and will run all day long for you. Now I know it's a lot to ask the lad, and we've got to hope to god he stays fit, but until January he's going to have to lead the line and be the focal point of how we play - a massive opportunity for him to shine. I'm not even worried about him not being prolific, if he can do what he's good at and give Pienaar, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini and Osman the chance to get the ball in the box, we'll still score goals. And anyway, we're Everton - we're at our best when it looks like everything is against us. This could be just what we need to get that never-say-die attitude and tight-knit mentality back - C'mon you Blues, let's do Villa and start our assault on the top four again!

I couldnt agree more Beard. Ive seen us play 90 minutes of good football all season - first half versus Arsenal, second versus Man Utd. Going five matches unbeaten and playing badly is fine - as long as you let that breed confidence and start improving. And tbh, I thought that was what was happening - we were dreadful against West Ham and won thanks to 5 mins of magic from Saha, and then played much better against Boro but just couldn't score. Again, fine, it happens - what you do is pick yourself up, regroup, concentrate on what you were doing right and go again. So where the performance against Wigan came from, I'll never know. Is confidence still that low in the dressing room that a home draw against Boro, despite on the whole not playing badly, can inspire a total no-show like that? Is there in-fighting, is Moyes losing the players? I just don't know. Ok, it's one result, but from looking at being back in the top five we're now staring at games against Spurs and Villa where, unless we improve dramatically, I can't see us getting anything, which will put us back in the bottom half. and yes, it is a very tight league and everyone is taking points from everyone, but we've got to concentrate on what we're doing, and the summary is still defence shaky, midfield totally unbalanced, strikers not looking potent enough. I await what kind of response we see at Shite Hart Lane...

Can anyone find any footage of Metab? I can't. Star reckons we've done a £2m deal to sign him in jan already - if thats true I reckon that's the end of the Wagner Love story, we dont need two strikers. Interesting to hear talk of a clear-out at Man City too, definitely wouldn't mind Elano, and how about having Ball back? Better player than Hibbert.

I think part of the issue is that Moyes' natural instinct is to congest the midfield and maybe err on the side of caution. So even though he's made the tactical switch to 4-4-2 and he's not playing a holding midfielder every game which was probably the first position filled on the team sheet each week when Cars was at the club, he wants to see one or both strikers dropping back or, as you're saying with the Yak, pushing wide to allow Pienaar and Arteta to close the space in the centre of midfield. And why shouldn't strikers work back like that? Ok it might mean they score less goals, but it's a team game and with Fellaini coming good in the last few games, we suddenly look like we've got goals coming from all over the pitch. Personally I'd like to see Moyes stick with this approach rather than go back to 4-5-1. Pick a midfield four from Arteta, Pienaar, Osman, Cahill and Fellaini, let the defense take care of themselves (as Moyes keeps pointing out, theyre all internationals, they should be good enough) and ask whichever strikers are picked to work back. I think there's goals aplenty in us, and if the strikers arent getting them, so what - it's up to them to work harder to match the midfield men. The great thing is is that he has the option to stick Rodwell or Castillo in the middle for a bit of cover and then ask the strikers to play right up top if need be. Hear that - Moyes has options! That's not something I expected to be able to say at start of season, but I think now everyone's back and fit the squad doesn't look too shabby at all and we're ready to put some results together.

Pity he couldn't have done it before we got knocked out of two cup competitions Oh well, I guess we'll see how good he really is how we end up this season, at minute we've got a hole to dig ourselves out of, let's hope this gets the fire and fight back into the side

So, purely hypothetically here mind, who would we want to replace Moyes? And assuming the takeover goes through, would we want some big name foreign manager? Personally, i wouldn't - I think too many clubs (the RS included) have sold their traditions as clubs down the river for a foreign manager, I'd prefer someone closer to home who has more of an idea what we're about. And while we're on the subject, I wouldn't want some big-name former Man Utd player in either - why do so many teams in the Prem assume that top-class players will maker top class managers, and give them jobs at the drop of the hat just coz they happened to play for Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea etc? Paul Ince managing blackburn is like us appoining Steve McManaman - now that would cause a riot! Personally, i'd go for a manager who has proven himself in the Championship, bringing teams to the Prem and holding their own on a tight budget, working on the basis of a close-knit, well-organised side the way all of our best sides have played in the past 30 years. Irvine? Wait to see what he can do at Preston first, too early at minute. Jewell or Allardyce? Jewell's one of us so I'ms ure he'd jump at it, not sure about the quality of football him or big sam play though. Tony Mowbray? Well, why not - he certainly plays the right type of football and has got West Brom playing much more attractive stuff than us, with better players I think he could be a top manager. Any one who can get a side to win the Championship, probably the most physical league in Europe, playing the kind of football West Brom play gets my respect. (Same goes for Steve Coppell, by the way). Phil Brown? Well his CVs getting better and better, although Hull are undoubtedly on the crest of the wave at the moment, one that's lasted a year now - be interesting to see how well he does when they hit a dip in form. Aidy Boothroyd? Still relatively inexperienced but very well respected, apparently an awesome motivator and likes football played the proper way too. Anyway, that'd be my shortlist, I'll throw it to the dogs

There really shouldn't be a man of the match for that dross. IMO that was the worst performance of the season - I can forgive being outplayed by the RS, knocked out the Carling Cup by blackburn reserves and going out the UEFA Cup to a far superior side, but letting a two goal lead slip against Newcastle, a team which doesnt look like it could punch its way out of a wet paper bag it's so low on confidence at the moment, is just beyond the pale. I'm still a little stunned by it, actually - how the f*ck did we let that happen? I agree with Licker about Moyes' denial of there being a crisis at the club - I think yesterday was pretty nailed on proof that we are in a deep, deep hole and there doesn't look much of a glimmer of getting out of it at the moment. Roll on Arsenal and Man Utd...

Can't understand it myself. IMO Lescott has been the weakest link in our defence for most of the season, the roasting he got from Liege's number 6 (Dalmat?) at Goodison was embarrassing. Yeah we all know he's a class player when on form but even good players need dropping when theyre rank out of form, yet he gets binned by Moyes for half a match before Yobo is dumped, and Capello sees fit to include him in an England squad ahead of Jags, the only defender we have who I think can hold his head up so far this campaign. Although, tbh, no players from a defence thats averaging two goals conceded per game should be making the England squad

I was listening to Five Live on Saturday morning and they had Paul Miller, ex-Spurs blocker-turned-footy-financial-whizz, in to talk about foreign investment in the Premiership. When asked which of the current clubs would represent good value for money to investors, he gave one name - Everton. Why? Coz our debts are significantly lower than many top-flight teams, including Liverpool, and we'd be available for around £200m, far lower than the likes of Newcastle or Spurs. To hear this from one of the avowed big boys in the football finance world made me wonder why, exactly, Kenwright has found it so damn difficult to find investment in the club? If we're that attractive, and leading financiers are prepard to go on record saying as much, why couldn't Bill have sorted out a buyer early summer, giving us a full close season to add to the squad and adjust to the restructuring of the club? I'm also wondering if Moyes' contract is being delayed by club rather than by him - maybe knowing that a takeover is in the offing, they don't want to put off potential investors who would be faced with an immediate £17m pay-off should they wish to switch the manager. Moyes has been saying the contract is back with the club for some weeks now.

I'd agree with your team entirely GMoney, except Cahill is out suspended. I agree tho that Arteta needs a kick up the backside, just for hi appalling corner taking if for nothing else. How about giving Rodwell a game in there? I'm also unsure how Saha would do as lone striker, but don't think Anichebe has got enough goals in him - how about Saha playing off Anichebe in the Cahill role? I'd also like to see Baxter get on the pitch at weekend - play him in that Cahill role for 20 mins and see what he can do

Cheers - hey it's much friendlier on here than on Daily Post forum, I just get slagged off on there!

Market value in a free market economy, jimmy, is not just driven by value for money, i.e. the consumer, the one doing the buying or paying the wages, wanting to get most for their wedge. It also has upwards pressure from the seller, or the one demanding the wages, trying to get the most cash possible. The balance of these two forces sets a market value which determines the standard price across the board. At the moment, 65k a week is the going rate for a manager of an top ten prem team, fact of life, because, unfortunately, there is not much pressure from the value-for-money side. Fans keep paying the ticket prices no matter what the price hikes are, fans keep subscribing to sky and setanta, fans keep buying the shirts. It's a seller's market, and the players/managers/money men know it. So until Everton fans stop going to Goodison in protest at the prices, stop watching them on sky and stop buying the shirt, i'm afraid Moyes is worth £65k a week, coz thats what we'd have to pay anyone

What a difference a few months make. In May we were being hailed in all quarters as 'the best of the rest' in the Premiership, the model everyone else should be following in trying to break the dominance of the top four. Now we're out of Europe, out the Carling Cup, and with a potential managers-first-game banana skin against Newcastle and games against Arsenal and Man Utd to come, we could seriously be looking at being bottom six in prem by start of November. Shades of 05/06 aplenty. Actually, I started this thread because I wanted to talk about the similarities with three seasons ago, because I think it says a lot about our club under Moyes and the current board. It isn't just the bad results that are reminiscent of 05/06 - just like this season, back then the word 'panic buy' was bandied around plenty as we ended a very underwhelming close season in the transfer market with a few last minute additions, we'd lost our most influential player in the middle of the park, the defence suddenly became leaky , etc. etc. Where am I going with this? Well i think the common denominator between now and three years ago is confidence. I think its no coincidence we're on another bad run like back then - we're a confidence team, and Moyes is a confidence manager. When things go our way, we're the sort of side that gets on a role and wins five, six on the bounce - equally, when things don't go so well, we tend to go on a slide that we find it difficult to drag ourselves out of, like at the moment. And I think that's a flaw not just in our make-up as a team, but in Moyes' managerial approach as well. There's nothing wrong with the us-v-them, fight-for-eachother mentality Moyes has used so successfully at times - Mourinho won two titles at Chelsea and a Champions League at Porto doing just that. The difference is, Chelsea have two teams worth of world class players to pick from and can sign reinforcements at will - it means confidence is never knocked in the way it has been in the past few months at Goodison Park over worries about squad strength/not finding the right quality players to come in. We are always walking a tightrope confidence wise - a few bad results, we don't have the squad to turn it around, the fans start getting disquiet over off-the-field activity, it quickly transmits through to the players. And the stark fact is, when our heads drop, when we stop harrying and harrassing teams, when communication, discipline and organisation are shaken, when we have the stuffing knocked out of us, we look very ordinary as a football team. I started off by asking what now for Everton FC. Well I for one don't want Moyes to go. He's still a young manager with potentially another 20 years to go in the profession - he's only a third of his way through his career, so his best is yet to come, and I want his best to be with us. Besides, I don't think we'd get any better. But what he needs to do is have a good long hard look at himself. He needs to ask why he has let what happened in 05/06 happen again, analyse it, and learn from the mistakes. He has to ask himself if he really wants this, because moping around is going to do nothing. if he does, fine - get the contract signed, and start building again. If he doesn't - well, we can't do anything about that, so it'll be thanks a lot Davey, and goodbye. But whoever the manager is, they cannot affect what is going on in terms of transfer funds, investment, stadium moves etc. etc. We forget that as fans sometimes. All the manager can do is work with the resources available to him and do the best he can with them. Moyes has had periods of excelling with limited resources, and times, like now, over underperforming. We need to be more consistent, and to do that we've got to improve the quality of our football. We were woefully outplayed by Liverpool, and Liege were far better organised, far better in their movement, much better at moving the ball around, and much more dangerous. Obviously at minute we need to sort the defence out, but we also need to pass the ball better, play with more width, press space in midfield better, play with more pace and zip. At moment, we look a million miles away from being a champions league team, and to me thats as much to do with the tactics and style of football the manager employs as it is size/quality of the squad. Sorry, this has become much longer than I thought it would. What you all reckon? I dont think there is enough talk on these forums about FOOTBALL, and how we should be playing it. I'm all for throwing kids like Rodwell and Baxter in, injecting pace and energy, and looking to youngsters down the leagues with a bit of energy, a bit of flair, and a hunger to make a name for themselves. Coached in the right way, an 18 year old with good touch, the ability to pass a ball and a good football brain can become a great player by 25 - thats how we used to recruit players, why is it all about splashing 10s of millions we dont have on foreigners? We need to go back to basics, back to the school of science, inject some life into the weary looking legs of our confidence-starved senior players, and move on. Maybe Moyes isn't right man for the job, I don't know, but I do know we have to snap out of this slump quickly, and stop being so prone to them.