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Kenwright, Is He Similar To Gillete & Hicks?

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There's not that much difference between Kenwright and G&H in my opinion.

  • Both have never paid a penny into the club
  • Both loan money for player transfers with the intention that sky income and fans income will pay it off.
  • Both owners are putting their clubs into serious debt for a stadium
  • Both intend to loan money from a third party to build a stadium

 

The only difference is Kenwright purchased the club with a mortgage that he pays for from his theatre shows whilst G&H use the money that Liverpool generates. If Everton could generate a profit as big as Liverpool could, do you think Kenwright would choose to pay the mortgage from his own bank account? I don't.

 

If Kenwright had the ability to secure a multi million pound loan would he look to build a stadium without third party help not unlike what Gilette and Hicks are doing because they can secure the money?

 

If the yanks couldn't afford to secure such a loan, wouldn't they be looking for enabling partners for a stadium to get their way ?

 

They are scarily similar chairmen in my opinion. Kenwright's only saving grace seems to be people know he is an Evertonian.

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Not sure about this!.....isn't it stated somewhere that Kenwright, who perhaps doesn't put money into the club, also doesn't actually take any money out!

 

Don't the Yanks want to take profit from luckypool, and fund their other interests?

 

Why did Aston Villa not do business with the wonderfull Texans :rolleyes:

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he didnt put money in orignailly....But, as u even stated, he pays off the morgage. isnt that enough?

 

i really dont get why so many on here are aint kenwright. im not his biggest fan, but im still glad he is in charge over alot of others!

 

better the devil you know...

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he didnt put money in orignailly....But, as u even stated, he pays off the morgage. isnt that enough?

 

i really dont get why so many on here are aint kenwright. im not his biggest fan, but im still glad he is in charge over alot of others!

 

better the devil you know...

 

I agree...there are a right bunch of fans who turn on Kenwright despite how the club has turned around. And to compare him to hicks and gillete, get real...are hicks & gillete fans of the club they own NO, kenwright YES. Do the yanks have the interest of the club or bank balance at the forefront, Yanks bank balance, Kenwright Club.

Strange how the peeps against a stadium move start these kind of topics...

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Im not a huge Bk fan either, but I do think he is a diff kettle of fish in comparison to the corporate raider types those 2 yanks are.

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Not sure about this!.....isn't it stated somewhere that Kenwright, who perhaps doesn't put money into the club, also doesn't actually take any money out!

 

Don't the Yanks want to take profit from luckypool, and fund their other interests?

 

Why did Aston Villa not do business with the wonderfull Texans :rolleyes:

 

Doug Ellis has gone on record as saying that he didn't want all of his hard work down the drain by them taking the club into debt.

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I agree...there are a right bunch of fans who turn on Kenwright despite how the club has turned around. And to compare him to hicks and gillete, get real...are hicks & gillete fans of the club they own NO, kenwright YES. Do the yanks have the interest of the club or bank balance at the forefront, Yanks bank balance, Kenwright Club.

Strange how the peeps against a stadium move start these kind of topics...

 

im not sure how far back the boards go, but people have held issue with kenwright long before the stadium move.

 

and people say the club has turned around? how?

yes results on the pitch are better, but Everton FC Ltd are not doing better. yes turnover has gone up, so has debt, and we make a loss every year!

 

people who think Wyness is doing a good job need to get themselves a copy of the published accounts since he came in, see if you still feel the same about him then!

 

the evidence is there, some people dont want to have their eyes opened!

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So what is the solution, steve? What can we do to get us out of this position?

 

ideally, i win the euro millions, buy out kenwright and bring in some proper good business types.

but realistically, there must be willing investors in a premier league club, people have invested in championship clubs, and smaller premier league clubs.

there has been groups interested from within the UK, the problem is kenwright wants investers who will leave him in control, but anybody who invests major finances into any business would want to run their own ship.

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Hmmm. There have been? Official and the like? That's a shame because we could do with the money to push on whilst Moyes is happy to be here. We need to match his ambitions.

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ideally, i win the euro millions, buy out kenwright and bring in some proper good business types.

but realistically, there must be willing investors in a premier league club, people have invested in championship clubs, and smaller premier league clubs.

there has been groups interested from within the UK, the problem is kenwright wants investers who will leave him in control, but anybody who invests major finances into any business would want to run their own ship.

 

lol so Kenwright picked up the phone and told you this then?

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im not sure how far back the boards go, but people have held issue with kenwright long before the stadium move.

 

and people say the club has turned around? how?

yes results on the pitch are better, but Everton FC Ltd are not doing better. yes turnover has gone up, so has debt, and we make a loss every year!

 

people who think Wyness is doing a good job need to get themselves a copy of the published accounts since he came in, see if you still feel the same about him then!

 

the evidence is there, some people dont want to have their eyes opened!

 

yes but due to the excellent transfer dealings of Moyes & Kenwright we now have the players on the pitch that would wipe out our debt with ease. Cahill, Yakubu, Lescott, Arteta, Howard, AJ, Yobo would all rake in major transfer fees which would leave us with no debt. Virtually every club in the country must be in debt, except for those run by billionaires, it's not Kenwrights fault that he doesn't have a lot of money and it's not his fault we're not a particularly attractive business proposition due to Goodison and the land it sits on being virtually worthless in real terms. Kenwright has done a brilliant job, he signed one of the best managers in the country, has backed him to the hilt (putting us in a fair bit of debt - but getting us tangible results in the process and valuable commodities on the pitch, unlike say Newcastle, Spurs). Everton's squad value is soaring, players like Lescott, Cahill, Arteta have probably quadrupled their value in a couple of seasons.

 

Criticism of Kenwright has always been ridiculous in my opinion, and to criticise him now is quite frankly myopic and down right insane. I personally don't understand a lot of the Hicks Gilette criticism either, not that I'd want them running Everton, apart from their comments about Klinsmann (which has probably kept Benitez in a job - sympathy vote from the fans, when in fact he's doing a very poor job) I don't see a lot wrong with them getting someone else to finance to finance stadium etc. I mean, who in their right mind would fund a £200 million staidum out of their own finances? I wouldn't.

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some like him, some hate him.

 

i cant be bothered today

yeah I know they do, but those who hate him I can't understand. It's like those who criticise Moyes (the best thing that's happened to this club in the last 20 years) when in fact both have turned this club around. We used to get all this criticism of 'why won't we break our wage structure' 'why won't we sign more players' etc etc, now we do all of that and still there's criticism, Kenwright can't win. Kenwright is definitely taking a bit of a gamble putting us into debt, but it's a calculated gamble based on commodities on the pitch, tv revenue etc which we can fall back on if it doesn't go to plan. You have to spend to make money, at least we know our spending is in safe hands.

 

The Kirkby move may turn out to be a disaster, but at this moment in time it is the only feasible option, if it goes wrong then it goes wrong - but I respect Kenwright for taking a chance on putting Everton back into the big time rather than letting us muddle along in the lower reaches of the table and having to settle for a relegation battle. Plus he gets amazing prices for players - Rooney, McFadden, Barmby, Jeffers, Ball...

 

I, like everybody else wish he had more money, but he doesn't.

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yeah I know they do, but those who hate him I can't understand. It's like those who criticise Moyes (the best thing that's happened to this club in the last 20 years) when in fact both have turned this club around. We used to get all this criticism of 'why won't we break our wage structure' 'why won't we sign more players' etc etc, now we do all of that and still there's criticism, Kenwright can't win. Kenwright is definitely taking a bit of a gamble putting us into debt, but it's a calculated gamble based on commodities on the pitch, tv revenue etc which we can fall back on if it doesn't go to plan. You have to spend to make money, at least we know our spending is in safe hands.

 

The Kirkby move may turn out to be a disaster, but at this moment in time it is the only feasible option, if it goes wrong then it goes wrong - but I respect Kenwright for taking a chance on putting Everton back into the big time rather than letting us muddle along in the lower reaches of the table and having to settle for a relegation battle. Plus he gets amazing prices for players - Rooney, McFadden, Barmby, Jeffers, Ball...

 

I, like everybody else wish he had more money, but he doesn't.

 

sorry, im a bit more bothered than that!

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I'm neither a fan or a hater of Kenwright but your being a bit blind if you think he's done anything special for Everton. It's moyes who deserves all the credit for the team not Kenwright.

 

BK fell right on his feet with the Rooney transfare because although he fucked up the negotiations meaning we missed out on millions he brought in 20M plus which ment we could buy some players. That was initiated by Rooney though and delt with very badly by Kenwright IMO.

 

Without using generalisations like 'turned this club around' or 'got us out of debt' can you actually list anything he's done for the club?

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I'm neither a fan or a hater of Kenwright but your being a bit blind if you think he's done anything special for Everton. It's moyes who deserves all the credit for the team not Kenwright.

 

BK fell right on his feet with the Rooney transfare because although he fucked up the negotiations meaning we missed out on millions he brought in 20M plus which ment we could buy some players. That was initiated by Rooney though and delt with very badly by Kenwright IMO.

 

Without using generalisations like 'turned this club around' or 'got us out of debt' can you actually list anything he's done for the club?

I think turning the club around is a pretty big thing he has done for the club. Moyes has turned this club around, but who chose Moyes? Kenwright that's who. Who gave Moyes his transfer funds, risking plunging us into debt? Kenwright that's who. Who's been chairman for our most successful seasons in the last 20 years? Kenwright that's who. Who has managed to get us a quite incredible deal with Tesco for a new staidum when there were no other viable options out there and we couldn't afford to redevelop? Kenwright that's who.

 

How did he miss out on millions with Rooney? He was a young kid who had done virtually nothing for Everton and we sold him for £20m plus add-ons, it was a fantastic deal and the biggest single factor why Everton are now challenging for Europe when we were going nowhere fast with Rooney in the team.

 

The lack of appreciation for Kenwright I find nothing short of disgraceful, here is a man who didn't have to rescue us from the Johnson debacle, but stepped in even though he didn't have the most money in the world and saved us. Being a chairman does actually involve some work you know, he doesn't just mess around all day smoking cigars and laughing it up, he puts the time in, he's at every match supporting the players, he's stuck by Moyes even when the fans were getting twitchy and he's also managed to keep hold of Moyes for years.

 

Kenwright says he would sell if someone came in with the right offer, no one has - that's not his fault. If Kenwright walked out on Everton now and then Moyes left we'd plummet faster than a stone down a well, it's what some fans deserve for their lack of respect and gratitude. Moyes and Kenwright have my 100% support, they've made some mistakes - who hasn't - but they've done a lot more good than bad. But you just can't please some fans.

 

In what ways could Kenwright actually be doing a better job, by nailing himself to a cross?

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My only problem with EFC is they just wont go the extra mile, and i dont know if its Moyes or Kenwrights philosophy, the january window came and went, and when the lads went off to the tournament we were ok for covering the forwards, we had no cover for Yobo, iF JAGS or LESCOTT got hurt, so he signs a centre half for free who couldnt pass a medical and couldnt even sit on the Bench, but worst of all we had no cover for midfield. Pienaar is away, Osman was out with an injury, Arteta was supended for 3 gamesand is now hurt and missing for the Brann game, During the window Gosling was bought for 2 mill and Mcfadden was sold for 5.7 mill, for the total of 7.7 mill i'm sure we could have picked up a decent player to boost our midfield instead of playing the shit formation we had to play against Spurs and Rovers.

Both those games were there for the taking and we should have had another 4 points, which would now have given us a nice little gap of seven points from the next nearest team.

I know some peeps say that gosling might turn out to be a good signing , but we could have done the pre -agreement thing, left him there and signed him in the summer, other peeps say whats the point of buying somebody if he ends up on the bench when everybody is fit, which to me is a crazy way of looking at it, thats the idea of getting a better squad.

If 1 or 2 of our midfielders get injured or suspended now, we dont have the chance to bring anybody in , the chance has gone and with it could go 4th, 5th, and 6th place, its far too late now.

 

Anyway, thats the only beef i've got with the club.

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My only problem with EFC is they just wont go the extra mile, and i dont know if its Moyes or Kenwrights philosophy, the january window came and went, and when the lads went off to the tournament we were ok for covering the forwards, we had no cover for Yobo, iF JAGS or LESCOTT got hurt, so he signs a centre half for free who couldnt pass a medical and couldnt even sit on the Bench, but worst of all we had no cover for midfield. Pienaar is away, Osman was out with an injury, Arteta was supended for 3 gamesand is now hurt and missing for the Brann game, During the window Gosling was bought for 2 mill and Mcfadden was sold for 5.7 mill, for the total of 7.7 mill i'm sure we could have picked up a decent player to boost our midfield instead of playing the shit formation we had to play against Spurs and Rovers.

Both those games were there for the taking and we should have had another 4 points, which would now have given us a nice little gap of seven points from the next nearest team.

I know some peeps say that gosling might turn out to be a good signing , but we could have done the pre -agreement thing, left him there and signed him in the summer, other peeps say whats the point of buying somebody if he ends up on the bench when everybody is fit, which to me is a crazy way of looking at it, that the idea of getting a better squad.

If 1 or 2 of our midfielders get injured or suspended now, we dont have the chance to bring anybody in , the chance has gone and with it could go 4th, 5th, and 6th place, its far too late now.

 

Anyway, thats the only beef i've got with the club.

 

I agree with a lot of that, except that we did have cover for Yobo - Stubbs, he only left on deadline day and Yobo was back within the week or so! It happens with Everton a lot, I think Moyes/Kenwright identify the players they want, go all out in the Summer than by the time Jan comes round there's either no money left in the coffers or there just aren't the players available that Moyes wants.

 

It is a little frustrating, but we do have enough depth to get us through I think - we just need players to get back in form. The thing about our team is, even when we aren't playing well we battle, we dig in and get results - and I think the last 11 games may all follow a similar pattern, not just for us but for Liverpool, Villa etc where results are all that matters but I think Everton have the greatest determination to win. We were unlucky with the Blackburn match don't forget, plus with Yak hopefully back in the team we should start scoring again. I'd be really excited to see Yak/Vaughan together.

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the Rooney deal wasn't as good as it could have been.

 

In case anyone is interested, there is no such phrase as "could have" it is "could have".

 

 

Oh and carlmc25, it is good too see there are fans out there the appreciate the Kenwright era to date :D

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Yeah, i think there might be 1 or 2 games when we can afford to play 4-4-2 (fulham and derby for instance) but the teams like Portsmouth, Villa, Wet Spam, RedS, and City who are all fighting alongside us we should play our favoured 4-5-1, but if just one of our midfielders is missing we are fooked, because we dont have a decent replacement.

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Yeah, i think there might be 1 or 2 games when we can afford to play 4-4-2 (fulham and derby for instance) but the teams like Portsmouth, Villa, Wet Spam, RedS, and City who are all fighting alongside us we should play our favoured 4-5-1, but if just one of our midfielders is missing we are fooked, because we dont have a decent replacement.

at the same time all those teams are behind us and will be feeling the pressure, if we beat them then we're well clear. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the 451 system, just too many players are out of form so I think we should go back to 442 and let's get Vaughan in with his enthusiasm and Yakubu with his goal threat. We don't have league game for a couple of weeks by which time Pienaar will be back, hopefully then we can get back to the 451 and start performing. If we can just beat City, we have a massive chance to finish 4th, that is our most important game of the season so far.

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In case anyone is interested, there is no such phrase as "could have" it is "could have".

Oh and carlmc25, it is good too see there are fans out there the appreciate the Kenwright era to date :D

:) definitely.

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I think turning the club around is a pretty big thing he has done for the club. Moyes has turned this club around, but who chose Moyes? Kenwright that's who.

 

The one good thing he's done for us but it's not like he pulled a rabbit out the hat Moyes was on a natural career path to the prem already kenwright just picked the best available british manager. Hard work that!

 

Who gave Moyes his transfer funds, risking plunging us into debt?

 

Erm the only transfare funds we have had in the Moyes era are prem prize money, money generated from player sales & the loan from Robert Earl or am I missing something. Are you saying Kenwright gave Moyes that money cos he signs the cheques for the business??

 

Who's been chairman for our most successful seasons in the last 20 years?

 

Lucky boy but we are successfull on the pitch not as a business, he has no involvement in that.

 

Who has managed to get us a quite incredible deal with Tesco for a new staidum when there were no other viable options out there and we couldn't afford to redevelop?

 

There are other options, the deal is by no means incredible it's second best & with the increased revenues from stasying within the city we would be able to manage a far bigger morgage than the 150M one we are going to have if we move to Kirkby.

 

How did he miss out on millions with Rooney? He was a young kid who had done virtually nothing for Everton and we sold him for £20m plus add-ons, it was a fantastic deal and the biggest single factor why Everton are now challenging for Europe when we were going nowhere fast with Rooney in the team.

 

United would have paid 30mil up front FACT we got 20mil thats a whole 10million pounds he missed out on. As for the money being a factor in our success your correct but Kenwright had fuck all to do with that as I said the only positive he could possibly have achieved in the Rooney was getting top dollar an he failed.

 

The lack of appreciation for Kenwright I find nothing short of disgraceful, here is a man who didn't have to rescue us from the Johnson debacle, but stepped in even though he didn't have the most money in the world and saved us.

 

Your right he did but we the fans got rid of Johnson trust me I know I was there. The door was open and Kenwright stepped in. Rescued? Hmmmm he put his money from the bank into one of English footballs gients while we were on our arse at a knock down price, the only way he would loose from that is if we went bust. Was that likely to happen?

 

So exactly how did he rescue us??

 

Being a chairman does actually involve some work you know, he doesn't just mess around all day smoking cigars and laughing it up, he puts the time in, he's at every match supporting the players, he's stuck by Moyes even when the fans were getting twitchy and he's also managed to keep hold of Moyes for years.

 

I'm not saying he doesnt do his job and I know he has a good relationship with moyes but that doesnt deserve praising.

 

Kenwright says he would sell if someone came in with the right offer, no one has - that's not his fault.

 

Depends who you believe.

 

If Kenwright walked out on Everton now and then Moyes left we'd plummet faster than a stone down a well, it's what some fans deserve for their lack of respect and gratitude. Moyes and Kenwright have my 100% support, they've made some mistakes - who hasn't - but they've done a lot more good than bad. But you just can't please some fans.

 

If Moyes left tomorrow we would suffer but I believe we are strong enough now as a club to survive, possibly we would struggle to have the same potential for progress but we wouldnt plumet anywhere.

 

If Kenwright walked away tomorrow I realy don't think it would make a blind bit of difference to current team performance but it it better the devil you know than the devil you dont I'll give you that.

 

In what ways could Kenwright actually be doing a better job, by nailing himself to a cross?

Transfare negotiations, he's wank at them.

 

The stadium, he's handled it so wrong.

 

Investement, he needs to stop trying to hand pick the investor and either sell up or find a backer instead of relying on loans from Robert Earl who will by the way want his money back one day!

 

Thats about the only major things worthy of praise he has to deal with and he fails in all areas.

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I think turning the club around is a pretty big thing he has done for the club. Moyes has turned this club around, but who chose Moyes? Kenwright that's who.

 

The one good thing he's done for us but it's not like he pulled a rabbit out the hat Moyes was on a natural career path to the prem already kenwright just picked the best available british manager. Hard work that!

 

Who gave Moyes his transfer funds, risking plunging us into debt?

 

Erm the only transfare funds we have had in the Moyes era are prem prize money, money generated from player sales & the loan from Robert Earl or am I missing something. Are you saying Kenwright gave Moyes that money cos he signs the cheques for the business??

 

Who's been chairman for our most successful seasons in the last 20 years?

 

Lucky boy but we are successfull on the pitch not as a business, he has no involvement in that.

 

Who has managed to get us a quite incredible deal with Tesco for a new staidum when there were no other viable options out there and we couldn't afford to redevelop?

 

There are other options, the deal is by no means incredible it's second best & with the increased revenues from stasying within the city we would be able to manage a far bigger morgage than the 150M one we are going to have if we move to Kirkby.

 

How did he miss out on millions with Rooney? He was a young kid who had done virtually nothing for Everton and we sold him for £20m plus add-ons, it was a fantastic deal and the biggest single factor why Everton are now challenging for Europe when we were going nowhere fast with Rooney in the team.

 

United would have paid 30mil up front FACT we got 20mil thats a whole 10million pounds he missed out on. As for the money being a factor in our success your correct but Kenwright had fuck all to do with that as I said the only positive he could possibly have achieved in the Rooney was getting top dollar an he failed.

 

The lack of appreciation for Kenwright I find nothing short of disgraceful, here is a man who didn't have to rescue us from the Johnson debacle, but stepped in even though he didn't have the most money in the world and saved us.

 

Your right he did but we the fans got rid of Johnson trust me I know I was there. The door was open and Kenwright stepped in. Rescued? Hmmmm he put his money from the bank into one of English footballs gients while we were on our arse at a knock down price, the only way he would loose from that is if we went bust. Was that likely to happen?

 

So exactly how did he rescue us??

 

Being a chairman does actually involve some work you know, he doesn't just mess around all day smoking cigars and laughing it up, he puts the time in, he's at every match supporting the players, he's stuck by Moyes even when the fans were getting twitchy and he's also managed to keep hold of Moyes for years.

 

I'm not saying he doesnt do his job and I know he has a good relationship with moyes but that doesnt deserve praising.

 

Kenwright says he would sell if someone came in with the right offer, no one has - that's not his fault.

 

Depends who you believe.

 

If Kenwright walked out on Everton now and then Moyes left we'd plummet faster than a stone down a well, it's what some fans deserve for their lack of respect and gratitude. Moyes and Kenwright have my 100% support, they've made some mistakes - who hasn't - but they've done a lot more good than bad. But you just can't please some fans.

 

If Moyes left tomorrow we would suffer but I believe we are strong enough now as a club to survive, possibly we would struggle to have the same potential for progress but we wouldnt plumet anywhere.

 

If Kenwright walked away tomorrow I realy don't think it would make a blind bit of difference to current team performance but it it better the devil you know than the devil you dont I'll give you that.

 

In what ways could Kenwright actually be doing a better job, by nailing himself to a cross?

Transfare negotiations, he's wank at them.

 

The stadium, he's handled it so wrong.

 

Investement, he needs to stop trying to hand pick the investor and either sell up or find a backer instead of relying on loans from Robert Earl who will by the way want his money back one day!

 

Thats about the only major things worthy of praise he has to deal with and he fails in all areas.

talk about blinkers, you just can't give any credit to Kenwright when it's staring you in the face. I didn't say Kenwright funded transfers personally but he has to sign off on the deals and decide whether to pay £5 for Lescott, plunging us further in to debt, or not. He has backed Moyes and we have reaped the rewards.

 

Kenwright's transfer dealings have been nothing short of sensational, how do you know Utd would have paid £30m straight up? The fact is even if that is true, we haven't missed out on £10m, we just have to wait for it. We may not get all of it, but we'll get a lot. I personally think even £20m was a good price for Rooney never mind add ons, he did bugger all for us. If my memory serves me correct, we sold Ball for approx £8m, Jeffers for £10m+, Barmby for £6-7m, McFadden for £5m, Rooney for £20-30m - and 3 of those have gone on to do absolutely nothing in their careers. We've brought in Lescott, Cahill, Yobo, Arteta for about £13-15m and they're now worth anywhere between £40-60m. To say our transfer dealings haven't been excellent is preposterous, we even agreed a fee for Sissoko about £2m less than Liverpool paid for him.

 

Of course you have to hand pick an investor - don't you understand, Everton are sitting in a worthless run down stadium on land that has little value. We are the second team in the city in the eyes of the world, we are not a global commodity, we have little catchment area (unlike say Aston Villa, Birmingham) so it's unlikely our fan base will grow a great deal nationally, we have a fair amount of debt - who is going to realistically come in and buy us for big money? especially when there isn't really any viable options in Liverpool to put a new stadium (unless you believe all the conspiracy theorists). We were a run down club going nowhere when Kenwright took over, now we have a young thriving team, a brilliant manager, moving to a new stadium for little money (it may or may not work out) and we're back in Europe getting recognition and potentially opening up new markets. What else could Kenwright realistically have achieved in his role as Chairman in the years he's been there? look at the real picture rather than listening to people on phone ins who are stuck in the past.

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In case anyone is interested, there is no such phrase as "could have" it is "could have".

Oh and carlmc25, it is good too see there are fans out there the appreciate the Kenwright era to date :D

 

In case anyone is interested, that sentence does'nt make sense.

 

People in glass houses should'nt ............................... :D

 

But we're not really interested. ;)

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talk about blinkers, you just can't give any credit to Kenwright when it's staring you in the face. I didn't say Kenwright funded transfers personally but he has to sign off on the deals and decide whether to pay £5 for Lescott, plunging us further in to debt, or not. He has backed Moyes and we have reaped the rewards.

 

So the chairman of a business deserves credit for listening to their management and signing the cheques? I thought that was run of the mill day to day activity in every business.

 

Kenwright's transfer dealings have been nothing short of sensational, how do you know Utd would have paid £30m straight up? The fact is even if that is true, we haven't missed out on £10m, we just have to wait for it. We may not get all of it, but we'll get a lot. I personally think even £20m was a good price for Rooney never mind add ons, he did bugger all for us. If my memory serves me correct, we sold Ball for approx £8m, Jeffers for £10m+, Barmby for £6-7m, McFadden for £5m, Rooney for £20-30m - and 3 of those have gone on to do absolutely nothing in their careers. We've brought in Lescott, Cahill, Yobo, Arteta for about £13-15m and they're now worth anywhere between £40-60m. To say our transfer dealings haven't been excellent is preposterous, we even agreed a fee for Sissoko about £2m less than Liverpool paid for him.

 

Our transfare dealings have been excellent but they have fuck all to do with Kenwright, the clubs who bought the players listed offered the dough apart from the faddy deal but dont tell me he negotiated that up, the whole world could see Brum were trying it on and would have raised their offer anyway. As for the ins surly that's down to Moyes? Plus remember Arteta & Lescott those deals nearly fell through because of the way we delt with them, Kenwright deserves praise for that?

 

A chairmans involvement in transfares is negotiations and we frequently mess them up

 

Of course you have to hand pick an investor - don't you understand, Everton are sitting in a worthless run down stadium on land that has little value. We are the second team in the city in the eyes of the world, we are not a global commodity, we have little catchment area (unlike say Aston Villa, Birmingham) so it's unlikely our fan base will grow a great deal nationally, we have a fair amount of debt - who is going to realistically come in and buy us for big money? especially when there isn't really any viable options in Liverpool to put a new stadium (unless you believe all the conspiracy theorists). We were a run down club going nowhere when Kenwright took over, now we have a young thriving team, a brilliant manager, moving to a new stadium for little money (it may or may not work out) and we're back in Europe getting recognition and potentially opening up new markets. What else could Kenwright realistically have achieved in his role as Chairman in the years he's been there? look at the real picture rather than listening to people on phone ins who are stuck in the past.

 

Yeah seriously if we carry on hand picking investors we still wont have one in another 10 years. Can you imagin going to buy a house and the developer wanting to know everything about you before he'd even talk business? You'd just fuck off down the road and buy off another developer.

 

All your talk about the stadium is full of extravagent claims backed up with no evidence and if you want to know my opinions on all that bollocks then look in the stadium thread.

 

I like Kenwright and I'll back him against the Kenwright bashers but to say he has turned this club around is bollocks,

 

The fans by getting rid of Johnson

Kenwright for stepping into the void

Moyes for building a team

 

Thats who deserves the credit and by my calculations that makes me as worthy of praise as BK he's done nothing special and his legacy like him or not will be the man who moved Everton outside the city to a tin pot stadium because he didnt want to sell out to a foreign investor.

 

By the way so you know I dont want a foreign investor either but anyone with money for a stadium would respect the importance of keeping a club like Everton close to it's roots, it's the foundation we are built on and what keeps us apart from the rest off the sell outs in the premier league.

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if we win the eufa cup but only finish 5th people will probably start moaning that we should have fin 4th also...it will be bk fault for not spending in the window.

 

We certainly wont achieve either of them if all we have to rely on for cover is Van der Meyde and Graveson.

I'm just praying we dont have any injuries to our midfielders.

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People in glass houses should'nt ............................... :D

 

They certainly shouldn't, but it shouldn't be should'nt, it should be shouldn't :P .

 

Sorry...I'm ashamed :unsure: .

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They certainly shouldn't, but it shouldn't be should'nt, it should be shouldn't :P .

 

Sorry...I'm ashamed :unsure: .

 

On this occasion your right or should it be you're right, or you are right. :rolleyes: you dont know do you.

It should actually be .............. People in glass houses, should not............

 

And so you should be, a cheap shot at the honourable draw i allowed you. from the goodness of my heart. :D

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Well!......Who would the people here on the forum prefer?

 

Bill Kenwright or Gillete & Hicks?

 

But for some terrible refs we would have a few points gap between us and 5th, if Chelsea had played as badly against us as they did luckypool Sunday, we would be in a final against Spurs!

 

Were going well in Europe.....and our injuries have been as bad as anyones.

 

Great young British manager, young squad, own stadium(and what ever problems go with it!)

 

Me I'll take Kenwright.

 

If we win nothing and finish 5th, that will be a great season for us to build on......but that wont be enough for some people.....will it?

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Well!......Who would the people here on the forum prefer?

 

Bill Kenwright or Gillete & Hicks?

 

But for some terrible refs we would have a few points gap between us and 5th, if Chelsea had played as badly against us as they did luckypool Sunday, we would be in a final against Spurs!

 

Were going well in Europe.....and our injuries have been as bad as anyones.

 

Great young British manager, young squad, own stadium(and what ever problems go with it!)

 

Me I'll take Kenwright.

 

If we win nothing and finish 5th, that will be a great season for us to build on......but that wont be enough for some people.....will it?

 

 

Are they the only foreign investors in the Premiership? Look at Lerner and you'll see how it can work out very well. Not all investors are good but they're not all bad either. And if it's between Lerner and Kenwright I'd have Lerner every single time.

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There may be hundreds of other foreign investors out there!.....but the thread was about

a comparison between Kenwright and the Yanks!!!!!

Simple question :lol:

 

 

Yes, saying that they're both bad! So obviously it wasn't about us rather having them than Kenwright :rolleyes:

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Lerner would have never been interested in the club back then, though.

 

However, if the club can somehow get back into a presentable position for someone along the lines of Lerner, that'd be grand.

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In my experience there are four basic types of team owners.

 

Type A is Spendthrift and Hands-on, or what I call the ruthless businessman. He doesn't give a crap about the team, the sport, or the fans. His only goals are to make a profit every year, and an even bigger profit when he re-sells the team someday; everything else, including winning, is secondary. Even if he's worth billions he still spends money on his team only grudgingly, and usually only when it's necessary to placate the fans or a new managerial hire, not to improve the team on the field. He won't sign off on anything that he thinks is too expensive, no matter how necessary his football people tell him it is. Any success for a team owned by the ruthless businessman is usually a lucky accident, and never lasts more than a season or two.

Example: Al-Fayed at Fulham fits the bill

 

Type B is Frugal and Hands-off, or what I call the smart businessman. He may or may not be a fan of the team or the sport, but it almost doesn't matter because he knows that other people are fans and his focus is doing his best to keep them happy. He realizes that smart spending increases the team's chances of success, and more success means more fans and a better, more profitable business in the long run. He ultimately controls the purse and sets the budget, but beyond that the smart businessman is willing to leave the football decisions to the football people on his staff, trusting them to make the right decisions. These are usually the most desirable owners (from a fan's perspective) and often - though not always - prove to be the most successful over the long-term.

Examples: Steve Gibson at Boro (he's done so much for that club that the fans still love him even when they're languishing in mid-table), and so far Lerner at AV is putting himself in this group too

 

Type C is Frugal and Hands-on, or what I call the fantasy football owner. He thinks he knows more about football than his manager or anyone else in the organization, and is willing to spend a lot of money on the biggest names he can attract to his team. He has little or no regard for team chemistry and continuity, and so is rarely successful in the long term without a strong manager who is capable of managing the wide variety of playing styles and egos his owner keeps adding to the roster. Signings, transfers, even who plays and who sits; if the fantasy owner has an opinion on those or any other decisions he's going to make himself heard, and woe betide the manager or team executive who defies his wishes. Fans initially love his willingness to spare no expense for the team, but can turn against him for his interference and meddling if all that spending still doesn't bring success.

Example: Abramovich at Chelsea is the classic example, and Mike Ashley at Newcastle seems to be heading this way

 

Type D is Spendthrift and Hands-off, or what I call the little owner that could. He wants his team to succeed, understands how a championship-winning organization should be run, and tries to model things after the smart businessman, setting the budget and letting his football people make most of the decisions, but for some reason he just lacks the revenue streams to consistently contend above a certain level. Perhaps his team has the disadvantage of playing in a smaller market, is saddled with an old/obsolete stadium, or doesn't have a big enough fan base to support his ambitions beyond a certain point. The little owner that could's teams are frequently famous for their youth development programs, and equally famous for selling off their young players once they start getting older and more expensive. If he can find more revenues somewhere he is capable of evolving into a Type B owner, but if he can't break the glass ceiling then he may end up frustrating his team's fans more than satisfying them, with the fruits of success so close but always seeming to dangle just barely out of reach.

Example: Kenwright seems to fall into this category, and I'd also put Dave Whelan at Wigan here - I think he's taken that club about as far as it can realistically go with their small market and limited fan base

 

Obviously Type B is usually the best kind of owner to have and Type A is usually the worst, but choosing between C and D often comes down to personal choice. Would you rather have a Type C owner who spends lots of money but turns the organization into a sideshow circus with all of his meddling and sometimes seemingly nonsensical decisions, who has an equal chance of bringing your team spectacular success or spectacular failure? Or would you rather have a Type D owner who doesn't have as much money to spend as a lot of other teams, but runs a solid and thoroughly professional organization that almost always gets the most out of whatever resources it has to work with?

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Correct me if i'm wrong JD but i gather you are trying to tell us that Kenwright is the best option. Or did you miss out on a category "E".

The Chairman who picked up a business at the right time and at the right price, who was unwilling to spend any money, because basicly he has'nt got any, and was lucky enough to choose a manager that has done more to steady the ship than anyone due to his exploits on the field.

While the fans are indeed appeased by the achievements and increased quality of the product on the field, the off field antics of the business are now worse than ever and is seriously in debt, it makes no difference how good the product is, if you are not selling enough you can not and will not make a profit.

My personal opinion is that the Chairman "E" has achieved a lifelong ambition to own the business and is revelling being in that position, so much so that he is very loathe to relinquish it and has even gone to the extremes of selling off all the Clubs assets in a bid to remain in the position for as long as he possibly can.

Now that all the off the field assets have been sold and the debts have not been reduced (they have increased) the only assets left to the club now are on the field. How long before he has to start selling those.

I think Chairman "E" was a temporary quick fix and i'm sure most people are grateful for what he did, but i think its time he moved over and made room for Chairman A.B.C.or D. i',m not bothered which one, but this business can not keep going deeper and deeper into debt.

 

Thanks Bill but please go soon. :)

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absolutely right on the money JD, brilliant post. Kenwright is doing all he realistically can and he is the best we can realistically do at the moment. No Randy Lerner type is going to buy us as at the moment - we just don't have the catchment area (which was a major factor why he didn't buy us in the first place and went for Villa) or the land value and we have too much debt.

 

Also, I don't quite see how off the field we're worse than ever, we've got our biggest ever sponsorship deal, we were in the top 20 richest clubs or something the other year etc - am I missing something? Surely our debt is increasing due to the vast sums of money we've spent on transfers in the last couple of years (well spent money) and due to the fact that we have increased the size of the squad and finally started paying decent wages so we can actually sign good players. Plus our ticket prices are nowhere near as high as most clubs in the league (a good thing) and our capacity is now somewhat limited compared to the bigger clubs. This all means that revenue from the fans is staying virtually the same, but wages and transfer fees are increasing exponentially, it's another reason why we need to move.

 

It seems that no one wants to give BK any credit for signing Moyes (indeed he was an up and coming manager - so was Peter Taylor, look at him now), it was stroke of luck apparently, like signing off on great transfer fees was also either lucky or nothing to do with BK. It's funny how everything that has gone right with Everton over the last few years is nothing to do with Kenwright, but everything that goes wrong is his fault.

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Carl, i'm not going to get into another in depth argument with you, cos i cant be arsed, but the transfers were funded by selling off everything the club possessd, it now has no more assets to sell and we are 20 million pounds deeper in debt than we were two years ago.

I appreciate BK did well in the initial takeover of the club, but now he nor the Club have any more finances and the only assets left are on the pitch.

I've already said thank you to Bk for what he did but its time for him to move out. I've given my opinion and you've given yours, now dont keep going on about it because it does'nt fall in line with what you said.

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we also have a new state of the art training facility - Finch Farm, rather than a rubbishy training ground - that's another reason why we're £20m more in debt. I honestly don't see what the problem is, we may be £20m more in debt that we were 2 years ago, but in that time we're signed Lescott, Arteta, Yakubu, Baines, Howard, AJ? (I think). Selling Lescott or Arteta alone would get us about 75%+ of that £20m back. I'm not saying things are perfect and I don't think anyone would dispute that having someone like Randy Lerner come in would be a good thing, but what I'm saying is that is not going to happen until we move grounds or increase our revenue substantially (which is unlikely). So in summing up, BK is the best we can do and with the resources he has at his disposal he has done a fantastic job.

 

and please can you stop telling me what to do and having sly digs, I'm not 10 years old. I'm allowed to elaborate on my points and you don't have to read them - so less of the patronisation please, it's getting annoying.

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"we also have a new state of the art training facility - Finch Farm",

 

 

It was sold before it was finished, the Club dont own it. :rolleyes:

 

And it is very annoying when you cant accept anybody elses opinion but your own inflated egotisical view.

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We actually don't own Finch Farm, we sold it before it was even built

I didn't know that, fair point and that is a little concerning - at least we still have use of the excellent facilities.

 

and Licker, I don't accept your opinion because I don't agree with it - that's why people have arguments or debates. I do accept your entitled to your opinion, but if you say things that I disagree with (and vice versa) then I'm within my rights to question it until I'm satisfied that what you're saying is actually sound or until I hopefully change your mind. That's how all arguments/debates work, decisions would never be made and differences of opinion never reconciled if everyone just went oh well that's his opinion so that's ok then. I don't want arguments, just good debates and if I learn something (like finch farm) then all the better for it.

 

I know I have a bit of a character flaw when it comes to not being able to let things go, I tend to over analyse and I can end up going on about the same things until I've explored every angle! It's just my way, but I do try my best!

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I didn't know that, fair point and that is a little concerning - at least we still have use of the excellent facilities.

 

and Licker, I don't accept your opinion because I don't agree with it - that's why people have arguments or debates. I do accept your entitled to your opinion, but if you say things that I disagree with (and vice versa) then I'm within my rights to question it until I'm satisfied that what you're saying is actually sound or until I hopefully change your mind. That's how all arguments/debates work, decisions would never be made and differences of opinion never reconciled if everyone just went oh well that's his opinion so that's ok then. I don't want arguments, just good debates and if I learn something (like finch farm) then all the better for it.

 

I know I have a bit of a character flaw when it comes to not being able to let things go, I tend to over analyse and I can end up going on about the same things until I've explored every angle! It's just my way, but I do try my best!

 

And you say your not 10?

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

Agreed, another superb post. You have to spend to make money as I've already said, Everton have put their money into the squad in the belief that results on the pitch will get us the revenue and recognition we need.

 

The only problem is, can we wait and see if we keep being successful and a new owner steps in, meaning we don't have to move out of Goodison? I don't think so personally, as it may not happen - leaving us with Goodison which will need serious redeveloping which we just cannot afford. I, like everyone I suspect, do not want Everton to move from Goodison, but I just can't see how we can turn down Kirkby, it's too good to be true.

 

Licker, opinions may not need proving (I never asked for proof) but they should be able to be justified otherwise what is your opinion based on? The grammar wasn't ok - its should have been it's. Unlucky. :)

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One of the other ways to attract a new owner with big money, other than just moving to a bigger stadium, would surely be the following!

 

Continue to push for 4th spot over the next couple of seasons, therefore playing in Europe each season and winning a couple of trophies......This season for instance we are on the right road.

 

With the current squad fit, I can't see why we can't do that for the next couple of seasons!

 

The name Everton will be taken notice of, already teams don't like playing us and even BIG teams seem to think a draw against us is a decent result......although most seem to beat us :angry:

 

Kenwright said he'd wait for the right offer!.......If we keep doing what were doing at the moment and perhaps even a little better.......maybe it will come!

 

Kenwright and Moyes have got us to this point where we are now being talked about as a good team/club.....is this what Kenwright has worked towards?

 

Pound for pound I can't see that were anything other than better off than nearly all of the other teams in the Prem......sure we have debt, who hasn't, ground not perfect but it's our's and unlike a lot with their new big stadiums we can just about fill it week in week out.

 

Rich new owners!......Money can run out!......Half filled big new stadiums, souls ripped out of clubs......Take your time Mr Kenwright, this is a very special club.....and thanks for getting us up there where we belong.

 

I'm in agreement with that mate and one of my biggest fears is that we move to Kirkby in the search for investement and when it comes they turn around and say, "I'd have never moved you out the city". We are on the right track to progress both on the field and in attracting investement so why the rush for the stadium move right now it's proberbly the least important time in the last 10 years to be making this step. I belive we can attract investement with our on the pitch actions over the comming seasons and when that happens we are going to be in a position of power in our stadium move rather than being the sideshow to the Tesco Circus!

 

Playing the long game has given us what we have today (that is something Kenwright deserves credit for!) so lets continue with the slow & steady in all areas and we will end up better off in the end!

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