Jump to content
Ian

Longest Thread!

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Palfy: Small minority or not, it's causing a real problem. Maybe I can quote from a recent news article.

"It is almost unreal to me that my daughter's university choice is determined by her fear of antisemitism." This mother was "lamenting the erosion of exemplary British tolerance as antisemitism becomes part of everyday life."

"UK Jews are finding it increasingly hard to live with an ever-present undercurrent of resentment towards Jews. They are also afraid to use their names for fear of backlash... Corbyn has created a climate where it is now okay to lash out at things Jewish."

Of course, the problem is not only in Britain.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/26/jews-in-germany-warned-of-risks-of-wearing-kippah-cap-in-public

A very insightful if not disturbing article there are no easy solutions to the problems of Racism, I have my views on how to try and eradicate it but as an atheist they may not sit well with people who practice their faith. 

But the first two things I would do would be abolish faith schools so children from all different communities get the chance to mix and see that we are all the same regardless of our faith or colour, then hopefully they are less likely to be influenced by racially minded people who try to indoctrinate young people into their prejudices, and hopefully there early experiences will show them that what they are being told by the racist is untrue. Some will still be influenced but hopefully over time it will become less and less until the pond dries up. 

And I would also bring the media to task on how the report racial issues, and stop them reporting on the prejudices of far right groups which may glorify what there doing to youngsters and help their numbers grow. 

I maybe completely wrong in what I’ve said Steve but what your faith is experiencing is not anything new, antisemitism has been around for thousands of years, so how do we stop it if not through the education of the young, what do you feel the answer is to this problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/07/2019 at 03:13, Cornish Steve said:

Mike: I came across a news article today about the arson attack on the historic synagogue in Exeter. (It hit the headlines because, during the attack, the perpetrator set fire to himself although escaped unhurt.) It's the third oldest synagogue in Britain, and my great-great-great-grandfather attended there. He's buried in the neighbouring Jewish cemetery. It seems the building has been repaired and is open again for use.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/watch-moment-terrorist-firebomber-blasted-3058919

I've read several articles recently about the rise of anti-Semitism in Britain. It's reached the point where a significant number of Jewish families are thinking of leaving the country. As a result, I've made a personal resolution: When I next visit Britain, I shall wear a kippah throughout. If fellow Brits (in this case Jews) are being picked on, then I want to stand with them and, if necessary, feel their pain. In 1930s Britain, my maternal grandfather had to change his last name because of pro-Nazi attitudes against Jews. We can't allow a return to those days.

Been mulling this over on and off all day. Firstly I wasn't aware of the arson attack at all, don't know how I missed it and secondly I had no idea there was such an historic synagogue in Exeter, it's a bit hidden away but I'll definitely now make a point of visiting it. Does your great-great-great-grandfather share your surname? If so I'll say hello to him if I can.

As to anti-Semitism I'm really at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it; all forms of racial/religious hatred are anathema to me but still I can see that a minority will always hold those beliefs, and if it's against Black, Asian, Polish or Muslim people (or whoever) however reprehensible I find it I can see that these people are often easily identified as targets (wrongly on many occasions). Jewish people, unless they're wearing a kippah or are Orthodox in somewhere like Golders Green, just aren't identifiable, so how do anti-Semites know who to hate?

I've mentioned before on here that both my in-laws are/were Jewish refugees, one from Germany (Kindertansport 1938) and one from Russia and the only tales my late father-in-law would tell of anti-Semitism were back when he was very young and the black-shirts were around pre-war. He actually went as far as going to Israel in his twenties and trained to join Mossad; though ultimately for reasons I can't recall he came back to the UK and was never active. My wife was adopted so although she strongly identifies as Jewish she actually isn't by blood. Her three brothers who were all natural children are non-practising, one in the UK, one in Holland and one in the US and I've never had the conversation with them as to whether they've faced any prejudice because it seems to me too ridiculous to contemplate, maybe it's a conversation I should have with them. They've all been very successful in completely different fields to each other as was their dad, so any prejudice they've encountered they've overcome.

The only time I saw my father-in-law's kippah was when it was on his coffin last year, so it obviously was important to him deep down.

This really isn't an answer Steve but just me trying to process your post, I just don't understand why anti-Semitism exists; when I found out my new girlfriend's parents were Jewish in 1995 I didn't for a moment consider that anyone would disapprove of our relationship (no-one ever has) but I had a black girlfriend a few years previously and I knew that it may cause me problems (it did).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/07/2019 at 17:43, MikeO said:

Been mulling this over on and off all day. Firstly I wasn't aware of the arson attack at all, don't know how I missed it and secondly I had no idea there was such an historic synagogue in Exeter, it's a bit hidden away but I'll definitely now make a point of visiting it. Does your great-great-great-grandfather share your surname? If so I'll say hello to him if I can.

As to anti-Semitism I'm really at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it; all forms of racial/religious hatred are anathema to me but still I can see that a minority will always hold those beliefs, and if it's against Black, Asian, Polish or Muslim people (or whoever) however reprehensible I find it I can see that these people are often easily identified as targets (wrongly on many occasions). Jewish people, unless they're wearing a kippah or are Orthodox in somewhere like Golders Green, just aren't identifiable, so how do anti-Semites know who to hate?

I've mentioned before on here that both my in-laws are/were Jewish refugees, one from Germany (Kindertansport 1938) and one from Russia and the only tales my late father-in-law would tell of anti-Semitism were back when he was very young and the black-shirts were around pre-war. He actually went as far as going to Israel in his twenties and trained to join Mossad; though ultimately for reasons I can't recall he came back to the UK and was never active. My wife was adopted so although she strongly identifies as Jewish she actually isn't by blood. Her three brothers who were all natural children are non-practising, one in the UK, one in Holland and one in the US and I've never had the conversation with them as to whether they've faced any prejudice because it seems to me too ridiculous to contemplate, maybe it's a conversation I should have with them. They've all been very successful in completely different fields to each other as was their dad, so any prejudice they've encountered they've overcome.

The only time I saw my father-in-law's kippah was when it was on his coffin last year, so it obviously was important to him deep down.

This really isn't an answer Steve but just me trying to process your post, I just don't understand why anti-Semitism exists; when I found out my new girlfriend's parents were Jewish in 1995 I didn't for a moment consider that anyone would disapprove of our relationship (no-one ever has) but I had a black girlfriend a few years previously and I knew that it may cause me problems (it did).

My g-g-g-grandfather's name was Moses Lazarus (same last name as my maternal grandfather).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

My g-g-g-grandfather's name was Moses Lazarus (same last name as my maternal grandfather).

I've noticed the cemetery before, it's about half a mile from the synagogue next to the "dissenters graveyard". I'll definitely have a look in there next time I'm in town, I find graveyards fascinating places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7203906,-3.5257542,3a,75y,151.06h,74.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCmwGVNAIad4zokPOt7mQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, MikeO said:

I've noticed the cemetery before, it's about half a mile from the synagogue next to the "dissenters graveyard". I'll definitely have a look in there next time I'm in town, I find graveyards fascinating places.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7203906,-3.5257542,3a,75y,151.06h,74.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOCmwGVNAIad4zokPOt7mQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Most of the gravestones contain Hebrew, not English, letters. Actually, if you’re interested, there’s a book available called ‘The Jews of Exeter’.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Most of the gravestones contain Hebrew, not English, letters. Actually, if you’re interested, there’s a book available called ‘The Jews of Exeter’.

I'll look into that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MikeO said:

I like to think, "...done it, got the badge, I'm off now, enough..". Totally sweet, hope so anyway.

Oh absolutely, but it’s always sad to see someone as brave and honerable as he clearly was go.

May he rest in peace. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a guy and they were all so humble.   I worked with a guy in the early 1960's and knew he'd been in the RAF during the war, but didn't know any more than that.  I found out some years later that he had been in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain and was awarded the DFC.  He never spoke about it.  Wish I'd known,  I could have shaken his hand and thanked him, which I suppose I should have done anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, johnh said:

What a guy and they were all so humble.   I worked with a guy in the early 1960's and knew he'd been in the RAF during the war, but didn't know any more than that.  I found out some years later that he had been in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain and was awarded the DFC.  He never spoke about it.  Wish I'd known,  I could have shaken his hand and thanked him, which I suppose I should have done anyway.

I worked right next to the place that Harry Patch, the last UK WW1 vet lived in his last years and I never knew; wish I had.

Was a big thing when he departed at 111 (must've been a cricketer) and the press were all over it; funeral live on the BBC, rightly so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise:unsure:. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise:unsure:. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

Exercise bike mate, you can go your own pace and still get your exercise in

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I had to run this morning (meeting someone at an office I'd been many times before, except they'd moved it without telling me), was only 0.1 of a mile away according to my phone and I couldn't be late so no option. Killed me and now my calves are properly seized up, can hardly walk! I think I need to do some exercise:unsure:. Problem is if I get breathless my throat constricts and I feel like I'm about to expire, tricky one to balance.

Try the Army assault course on Salisbury Plain.  Not too far from you.   😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Matt said:

Exercise bike mate, you can go your own pace and still get your exercise in

Had one of those before but to get a decent one is pricey, used "proper" ones in physio a few years and agree they're good but's a lot of expense and really got nowhere to put one.

2 hours ago, johnh said:

Try the Army assault course on Salisbury Plain.  Not too far from you.   😁

I did the one in Pirbright several times many years ago, excellent (and at times terrifying) fun in wooded terrain; bit past it now I think. Remember reading somewhere that the French Foreign Legion one in Guyana is the toughest one in the World, and that the record for the slowest time completing is was held by the US Marine Corps😂.

Coincidentally I drove past the Commando Training Centre for our Marines in Lympstone just yesterday, didn't think to ask the guards if I could nip in and have a go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MikeO said:

Had one of those before but to get a decent one is pricey, used "proper" ones in physio a few years and agree they're good but's a lot of expense and really got nowhere to put one.

I did the one in Pirbright several times many years ago, excellent (and at times terrifying) fun in wooded terrain; bit past it now I think. Remember reading somewhere that the French Foreign Legion one in Guyana is the toughest one in the World, and that the record for the slowest time completing is was held by the US Marine Corps😂.

Coincidentally I drove past the Commando Training Centre for our Marines in Lympstone just yesterday, didn't think to ask the guards if I could nip in and have a go.

I got my one for £80 second hand. Have a look on eBay if something, of wait for the inevitable Black Friday offers 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Referring to nobody in particular but just reading about someone killed who is, "the nicest person you could ever wish meet" or (in other cases) "would do anything for anybody".

Why is nobody who dies before their time "an arsehole who the world is better off without"? Just musing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Referring to nobody in particular but just reading about someone killed who is, "the nicest person you could ever wish meet" or (in other cases) "would do anything for anybody".

Why is nobody who dies before their time "an arsehole who the world is better off without"? Just musing.

Because you don’t mourn arseholes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Matt said:

Because you don’t mourn arseholes?

Not unless they're "your" arseholes (in which case you can mourn while secretly being a little bit grateful); some people are best removed from the gene pool. I could name several people (relatives to famous) who I'd not be sad to see the back of; not saying I wish anyone dead, just hate the (thoughtless) "thoughts are with at this difficult time" platitudes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not unless they're "your" arseholes (in which case you can mourn while secretly being a little bit grateful); some people are best removed from the gene pool. I could name several people (relatives to famous) who I'd not be sad to see the back of; not saying I wish anyone dead, just hate the (thoughtless) "thoughts are with at this difficult time" platitudes.

Fair enough. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it's because you "you don't speak I'll of the dead". Look at famous people in music you have had well chronicled drug issues. When they die it is all platitudes about what nice people they actually were - from their fans their peers, the media. And I'm certainly not making light of people that have addiction problems it's no joke. But in some of these cases you want to say Jesus Christ the guy had a heroin (or alcohol or some other drug) problem for 15 years of course he overdosed/died young and I'm pissed off about it because I loved his music and he couldn't get his shit straight!

Think about the funerals you've been to for people you personally knew - especially mates. A lot of times the gentle saint they are talking about only slightly resembles the one you raise all kind of hell with - the flawed individual thay you loved. 

Honesty at funerals, that would be really ...interesting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

Good idea that. Goes beyond just choosing the music which many now do, my mum did for one. I had a gay cousin who died from AIDS decades ago and he pretty much "directed" his funeral; it was in Brighton where there's a large LGBT community and it was an absolute riot, one of the best parties I've ever been to! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Good idea that. Goes beyond just choosing the music which many now do, my mum did for one. I had a gay cousin who died from AIDS decades ago and he pretty much "directed" his funeral; it was in Brighton where there's a large LGBT community and it was an absolute riot, one of the best parties I've ever been to! 

That’s special and great way for everyone including the deceased to say there goodbyes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Palfy said:

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

Yeah that’s how I want my funeral.  I want it to be a celebration people drinking and laughing and remembering all the funny stuff I did.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yeah that’s how I want my funeral.  I want it to be a celebration people drinking and laughing and remembering all the funny stuff I did.  

Me too. Chose “one step beyond” as my goodbye track years ago 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Wouldn’t it be refreshing if our society had a age old tradition of when you got to a certain age you wrote your own obituary like you would a will, that way you may get a more honest assessment of a person if it comes from the horses mouth. 

Now that I’ve just reached the age of sixty I may start having a go at writing mine, I think I would write it the style of a best man speech and try to make it funny and take the piss out of myself, so who ever cared to turn up would hopefully have a laugh. 

if it's a gathering that's all about me so to speak, make it something I'd want to go to if I wasn't in a box. Decent Dad, husband, kind to old ladies and strangers, years of volunteering in youth soccer leagues fine. But if it's going there, probably shouldn't skip over "usually smuggled liquor into functions inappropriately" and "farted in crowded elevators and then giggled like a school boy"

You know, I have talked about writing mine for years, but I haven't done it, I really should. Funny, irreverent, where people would laugh out loud...with a bit at the end to make sure all those fuckers walk out in tears, bam! 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

if it's a gathering that's all about me so to speak, make it something I'd want to go to if I wasn't in a box. Decent Dad, husband, kind to old ladies and strangers, years of volunteering in youth soccer leagues fine. But if it's going there, probably shouldn't skip over "usually smuggled liquor into functions inappropriately" and "farted in crowded elevators and then giggled like a school boy"

You know, I have talked about writing mine for years, but I haven't done it, I really should. Funny, irreverent, where people would laugh out loud...with a bit at the end to make sure all those fuckers walk out in tears, bam! 🤣

Get it written mate sounds like it needs to be heard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...