Demoralised

[arealtrueblue]

What Im about to say will probably get a bad reply but here it is anyway. We finished fifth last season and ended the season on a great note and I along with evey other Evertonian on the planet looked to the future with optimism.So what do I do,I wait, like everyone whos reading this im sure, for the quality players to come banging on our door as we certainly seemed to be a team going places.I scan every soccer website as the summer goes on,I read every rumour and every hope of players coming,but nothing.I honestly believe Moyes has money to spend,BUT HERE IT IS LADS,HERES THE PAINFUL TRUTH..Everton are trying to make the transition back to a major soccer team challenging for Europe,and when I say Europe I mean the real Europe,Champions League. So what do we do?We try and attract a higher class of player,we're looking at players now that Utd,Arsenal,Chelsea and the filth are looking at,and the painful truth is these players are choosing to go to bigger and better clubs.Ok ok I said it,I love Everton,always have always will,but if I'm spainish or french or whatever I see Utd,Chelsea,Arsenal and the filth,thats it.Why come to Everton,Im going to get paid less,Im going to a team that ISN'T challenging for trophies,playing in a run down old stadium,with an outside chance of making the UEFA CUP at best!I mean just look at who we have signed,Jacobsen,in all fairness who the hell is this guy!Castillo!!!He was at Blackburn at the start of the summer and they sent him packing but what do we do???Sign him up!!Now before you get totally mad at me while reading this remember that Im saying all these things as an Everton fan on an Everton fans chat site,when Im back in the real world and talking to other soccer fans I fly the club flag as high as I can,but I tell ye guys it truely is demoraling.I dont have the answers for our problems but my best guess is ride out this current situation realisticly finish mid table and battle on from there..as the future,my hopes of one day returning to the top of english soccer are fading with every day and season that passes by.........lets hope Im wrong... about all this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jimmy the blue]

I can see where you are coming from mate, we all recognise what you say and yes I believe something fundamentally huge has gone wrong behind the scenes and we are in damage limitation mode. That said what ever has gone wrong has be sufficiently bad to exhaust a large proportion of our transfer funds, no matter what the problem is it exists and we have to live with it. In saying that elements within the club have done some stirring work this week patching up where they can, it will certainly continue into the weekend.

 

This will not be the biggest downer we have ever had and we can ride out this storm but it will require each and every one of us to get behind whatever team moyes fields whether or not we've heard of the players or not. Failure by the fans to do this will only result in another Blackburn type result, at times it was as close silence as you can get at Goodison in that match. When the going gets tough.............................

 

COYB

[Sporting4ever]

As a non-EFCer, i can give a bit of an outside prespective on the subject.

 

In my oppinion, you attacked this transfer season totally wrong, aiming for players that, while possibly not out of your reach as a top PL team, are clearly NOT cheap, moutinho in particular. Moutinho, in my view, is a CL and title contender player in any league he goes to, but EFC, probably misled by an agent that thought he could force SCP to sell, clearly wasted too much time on him, and now are racing to salvage anything.

 

I know it's tougher in england because of the work visas to get quality from places like africa and south america, but the fact is, there's loads of talent playing in "lesser" teams in european leagues. Teams like Guimarães and Braga in portugal, pretty much everyone not playing for europe in spain, and a few of those as well, netherlands, belgium, there's so much talent on lower teams that won't cost nearly as much, and those players are just acking for a chance at a bigger league/club.

 

Moutinho and Love's situation, and how EFC was misled in their chances with both players, is, again in my opinion, the reason so much more as happened, rennes playing hard ball, because they know how desperate you are, Tiago's denial, mostly because he didn't like playing in the EPL, but also, i think, because of the mess things appear to outsiders atm.

 

Salvaging this is not gonna be easy, and, my opinion is, next time, try a smaller step, instead of such a big leap, that appears was beyond your reach.

[jamiemaher85]

I think you need a little perspective. It has been frustrating but you can't write of the club and the season 2 games in. When we finished 4th it was hardly the greatest preperation for a season! It has been hard to be an everton fan because of our slow progress in the market during the summer, but until the window has closed and we see who finally arrives then we shouldn't start throwing stones. As for the two players we brought in. BOTH are FULL international players. Jacobson reavelled in his unveilling that Moyes has been tracking him for 1 and a half years, so he is not a "panic" buy. Castillio is a very good player from what I have seen of him. And Balckburn did not "fuck him off" like you said, they wanted him but Castillio did not want to go plus they could not agree a fee for the player. He actually impressed them alot during his time there, they tried but failed to get him. Don't write both of them off until you have seen them play. Also this Obfima that looks to be arriving is one of the hot prospects in world football.

 

I admit its been frustrating, but doom and gloom merchants are not what the club needs right now. Wait until the transfer window has closed to begin throwing stones. None of us can predict what will happen this year, and maybe that is what is frustrating us, we have potentially been punching above our weight for awhile now, our lack of money was alwasy going to catch up with us, but remember that we have one of the leagues best managers at the helm, once the window has closed and he can concentrat on coaching the team again things will even out again.

 

Everything is not lost yet.

[Jimmy the blue]

I think you need a little perspective. It has been frustrating but you can't write of the club and the season 2 games in. When we finished 4th it was hardly the greatest preperation for a season! It has been hard to be an everton fan because of our slow progress in the market during the summer, but until the window has closed and we see who finally arrives then we shouldn't start throwing stones. As for the two players we brought in. BOTH are FULL international players. Jacobson reavelled in his unveilling that Moyes has been tracking him for 1 and a half years, so he is not a "panic" buy. Castillio is a very good player from what I have seen of him. And Balckburn did not "fuck him off" like you said, they wanted him but Castillio did not want to go plus they could not agree a fee for the player. He actually impressed them alot during his time there, they tried but failed to get him. Don't write both of them off until you have seen them play. Also this Obfima that looks to be arriving is one of the hot prospects in world football.

 

I admit its been frustrating, but doom and gloom merchants are not what the club needs right now. Wait until the transfer window has closed to begin throwing stones. None of us can predict what will happen this year, and maybe that is what is frustrating us, we have potentially been punching above our weight for awhile now, our lack of money was alwasy going to catch up with us, but remember that we have one of the leagues best managers at the helm, once the window has closed and he can concentrat on coaching the team again things will even out again.

 

Everything is not lost yet.

 

Well said Jamie!

[troy8]

i can see where youre coming from, and yes it has been a hard summer. but the past week we've won our first game of the season, signed some players, and it seems we will get a few more as well. so i dont think the future of everton is not all that bad, who knows the boys might end up surprising us by the end of the season

[linglong]

As a non-EFCer, i can give a bit of an outside prespective on the subject.

 

In my oppinion, you attacked this transfer season totally wrong, aiming for players that, while possibly not out of your reach as a top PL team, are clearly NOT cheap, moutinho in particular. Moutinho, in my view, is a CL and title contender player in any league he goes to, but EFC, probably misled by an agent that thought he could force SCP to sell, clearly wasted too much time on him, and now are racing to salvage anything.

 

I know it's tougher in england because of the work visas to get quality from places like africa and south america, but the fact is, there's loads of talent playing in "lesser" teams in european leagues. Teams like Guimarães and Braga in portugal, pretty much everyone not playing for europe in spain, and a few of those as well, netherlands, belgium, there's so much talent on lower teams that won't cost nearly as much, and those players are just acking for a chance at a bigger league/club.

 

Moutinho and Love's situation, and how EFC was misled in their chances with both players, is, again in my opinion, the reason so much more as happened, rennes playing hard ball, because they know how desperate you are, Tiago's denial, mostly because he didn't like playing in the EPL, but also, i think, because of the mess things appear to outsiders atm.

 

Salvaging this is not gonna be easy, and, my opinion is, next time, try a smaller step, instead of such a big leap, that appears was beyond your reach.

Youve got it spot on mate

 

We went for players that frankly at this stage of our devolpment with Moyes where out of our reach a schoolboy error sadly and now we're reduced to the IMO very poor signing of Saha

[Viennatoffee]

Some guys here are talking like we are a total fucking up club and have some real problems in this season so far...

 

WTF? 2 Games are played yet, okay we didn´t play well really but we have 3 points out of 2 games now and made our first signings this week. So let us wait and see what our boys show us against Portsmouth and in the next games, and just if we loose their we can think about real troubles. It´s true it was a very long and frustrating summer for us, but maybe we get a nice European Tour and season again and everything will end nicely!

[Mikels Left Tezzer]

Lets not hide from the fact here that it has been a dross pre-season, however its not all doom and gloom. I think we still have a top team in the premiership, yes we have been caught out with injuries but once Cahill and Pienaar are back we will be a true force to be reckoned with. So, we sold Johnson? I think he wasn't as good as we all first thought, even in his first season he onle scored 12 goals? poor return that is. Carsley had his moments but I think he was a liabilty, if people stopped believing in the hype about him in the papers and formed their own views they will see Carsley for what he was. Did you ever scream and curse his name when he backed off and backed off a player resulting in a goal.....I did, the man if you remember took out his own player, Cahill resulting in him missing a few games. Damn even last season I remember him backing off G Barry alll the way to our box which resulted in their equiliser.

Castillo is a big improvement on Carlsey, a half fit Saha is better than Johnson, and Jacobsen is better than Hibbert at right back a place I personally wanted inmproving as the distribution from that area was poor.

 

Next for Moutinho, he is not a player out of our range, I think Sporting have seriously over rated him. Yes he is a neat and tidy player and makes few mistakes but he is hardly a Deco/Gerrard/Lampard. I think he is similar to Cesc Faberegas in some aspects of his play but he is not as good. I don't believe he would grab a game by the scruff of the neck like any of the aforementioned players but he would be a perfect foil for Arteta and improve the quality of our play. For 20m I would expect to sign a true superstar for that, in fact a few million on top you could probably get David Villa. We sold Rooney for about 10m up front, picking up the rest of the money season after season, scruffy Manc gits!!! (On a side note Manure have ruined Rooney!)

 

I would rather have Veloso from Sporting if I had a choice, he is more suited to the premiership.

 

Moyes and the Everton board aren't as stupid as we think, and Moutinho although a good player is not worth the money Sporting have asked. Fair play to them though because I would be fuming if someone tried to sign Arteta, I would expect 25m.

[carlmc25]

Lets not hide from the fact here that it has been a dross pre-season, however its not all doom and gloom. I think we still have a top team in the premiership, yes we have been caught out with injuries but once Cahill and Pienaar are back we will be a true force to be reckoned with. So, we sold Johnson? I think he wasn't as good as we all first thought, even in his first season he onle scored 12 goals? poor return that is. Carsley had his moments but I think he was a liabilty, if people stopped believing in the hype about him in the papers and formed their own views they will see Carsley for what he was. Did you ever scream and curse his name when he backed off and backed off a player resulting in a goal.....I did, the man if you remember took out his own player, Cahill resulting in him missing a few games. Damn even last season I remember him backing off G Barry alll the way to our box which resulted in their equiliser.

Castillo is a big improvement on Carlsey, a half fit Saha is better than Johnson, and Jacobsen is better than Hibbert at right back a place I personally wanted inmproving as the distribution from that area was poor.

 

Next for Moutinho, he is not a player out of our range, I think Sporting have seriously over rated him. Yes he is a neat and tidy player and makes few mistakes but he is hardly a Deco/Gerrard/Lampard. I think he is similar to Cesc Faberegas in some aspects of his play but he is not as good. I don't believe he would grab a game by the scruff of the neck like any of the aforementioned players but he would be a perfect foil for Arteta and improve the quality of our play. For 20m I would expect to sign a true superstar for that, in fact a few million on top you could probably get David Villa. We sold Rooney for about 10m up front, picking up the rest of the money season after season, scruffy Manc gits!!! (On a side note Manure have ruined Rooney!)

 

I would rather have Veloso from Sporting if I had a choice, he is more suited to the premiership.

 

Moyes and the Everton board aren't as stupid as we think, and Moutinho although a good player is not worth the money Sporting have asked. Fair play to them though because I would be fuming if someone tried to sign Arteta, I would expect 25m.

Looking for the positive is well and good but I think you've been more than a little disrespectful towards Carsley at least. To say Castillo is a big improvement when the likelihood is you've possibly never even seen him play is pushing it, especially when Carsley was one of our most important players over the last 4 years. I'd rather a player backed off and held a man up rather than dived in and left us 3 on 2 or totally out of position. Carsley stopped far more goals than he cost us. I'm not afraid to say in a 451 I think Carsley was brilliant. In a 442 not so, hopefully Castillo will be better, but to say it's a foregone conclusion is a bit silly imo.

[EFC-Paul]

Aye i agree with you Jamie pretty much my thoughts on the matter aswell, at the end of the day we all expected better and deservedly so but we have to play the hand we have been dealt and i am alot happier then i was last week when it looked as if not one player would arrive.

RB is a position which needed improvement imo and hopefully Jocobsen can claim his stake and be what we need, Castillo seems from what i have read as i have not seen him play apart from a few clips a good player as Jamie said BBurn wanted him but terms couldnt be agreed, Obinna look like a very good prospect as ive said in another post you dont have the likes of Roma and other big European teams courting you if your dogshit so chances are he'll be a good acquisition, Saha is a proven prem player who when fit is a very good striker who's got alot of experiance and bags of goals left in him. I know we havent signed the names we all wanted but we have started to cover positions which we needed to and when other players are back from injuries we will have the same starting team bar Carsley as last season plus by the looks of it more added quality i think ppl have let names and so on blind them abit from the fact our squad where by all means the fith best squad in this league i know the likes of Villa and so on have signed players but will they come good there's as much of a chance as our signings of doing so, just look at Spurs spend big get "names" then play like a bunch of pissed up sunday league players. This is just my opinion like it could go tits up but nows the time to start backing our lads and hoping for a good season.

Edited August 29, 2008 by EFC-Paul

[Mikels Left Tezzer]

Looking for the positive is well and good but I think you've been more than a little disrespectful towards Carsley at least. To say Castillo is a big improvement when the likelihood is you've possibly never even seen him play is pushing it, especially when Carsley was one of our most important players over the last 4 years. I'd rather a player backed off and held a man up rather than dived in and left us 3 on 2 or totally out of position. Carsley stopped far more goals than he cost us. I'm not afraid to say in a 451 I think Carsley was brilliant. In a 442 not so, hopefully Castillo will be better, but to say it's a foregone conclusion is a bit silly imo.

 

Not disrespectful, just the truth brother. No one said Castillo is a foregone conclusion, I'm not naive enough to make such a bold statement before he has adapted and played a game for us. I'm saying though from what I have seen he has more tools in his bag than Carsley and if he can adapt to the PL he would be better.

 

Don't be upset on my views of Carsley, I actually have a lot of opinions on Everton players that I don't think are good enough. Jags being one of them, and yes at centre half.

[Sporting4ever]

Lets not hide from the fact here that it has been a dross pre-season, however its not all doom and gloom. I think we still have a top team in the premiership, yes we have been caught out with injuries but once Cahill and Pienaar are back we will be a true force to be reckoned with. So, we sold Johnson? I think he wasn't as good as we all first thought, even in his first season he onle scored 12 goals? poor return that is. Carsley had his moments but I think he was a liabilty, if people stopped believing in the hype about him in the papers and formed their own views they will see Carsley for what he was. Did you ever scream and curse his name when he backed off and backed off a player resulting in a goal.....I did, the man if you remember took out his own player, Cahill resulting in him missing a few games. Damn even last season I remember him backing off G Barry alll the way to our box which resulted in their equiliser.

Castillo is a big improvement on Carlsey, a half fit Saha is better than Johnson, and Jacobsen is better than Hibbert at right back a place I personally wanted inmproving as the distribution from that area was poor.

 

Next for Moutinho, he is not a player out of our range, I think Sporting have seriously over rated him. Yes he is a neat and tidy player and makes few mistakes but he is hardly a Deco/Gerrard/Lampard. I think he is similar to Cesc Faberegas in some aspects of his play but he is not as good. I don't believe he would grab a game by the scruff of the neck like any of the aforementioned players but he would be a perfect foil for Arteta and improve the quality of our play. For 20m I would expect to sign a true superstar for that, in fact a few million on top you could probably get David Villa. We sold Rooney for about 10m up front, picking up the rest of the money season after season, scruffy Manc gits!!! (On a side note Manure have ruined Rooney!)

 

I would rather have Veloso from Sporting if I had a choice, he is more suited to the premiership.

 

Moyes and the Everton board aren't as stupid as we think, and Moutinho although a good player is not worth the money Sporting have asked. Fair play to them though because I would be fuming if someone tried to sign Arteta, I would expect 25m.

 

 

Well, from my part, i don't think for a second that you've compromised the season, ofc. when push comes to shove, the decisions are really made in the pitch, so with practically the entire season still to come, it's way to early for any coments, but in all fairness, i think EFC may have lost the ability to consolidate their 5th position, and improve on last year. maybe i'm wrong, and since lst season wasn't a flying start either, you may actually do it.

 

Now, as regards to moutinho, i dissagree with you there. you're seeing him as number 10, when he's not. he's not a playmaker like deco (i still can't believe barça let him go like that). he's more like a number 8. he both defends and attacks well, he isn't flamboyant, true, doesn't shoot at goal much, but that's because he prefers passing. i don't know if he would do well in the EPL, and i agree that veloso would fit it better, he's a powerful defensive midfielder, great positioning and stamina, but moutinho is indeed worth it. He never back away from the game, always gives his best, and has an endurance i've never seen before. he literally played in every single SCP game last year, and we had almost 60 games played. and after that, he still went and did a good job at the euro. Would you have signed an 18 year old lad for £20M after seeing him play one game against your side? Probably not, right? well, 5 years ago, that lad was Cristiano Ronaldo... I hated to see him go, when i knew he was worth so much more, even then, but at that time we couldn't say no to money like that. now we can. now, we can finally sell players for what they're really worth. It's tough on you guys, ofc, but that's the way things are

 

 

PS- Quite interesting last days, these have been. if the weekend and monday are just as lively, moyes will have the numbers he needed.

cheers for him, and you guys

[Ian C]

Look at what we did last season without Cahill.

 

And who have we really lost from last season who truly made a difference? (Besides maybe Carsley) We've got Pienaar, Arteta and Cahill in our midfield folks, all good/great players. Yakubu is one of the premierships top strikers. Howard is arguably the best keeper in the premiership, Lescott, Yobo and Jagielka could get a place in nearly any team in the premiership.

 

With our new signings, hopefully Jacobsen can improve our deep cross from the right side and maybe even play some smart balls to Arteta and kickstart some beautiful corner runs like we used to see. Castillo looks like a good player, Red Star Belgrade are a Champion's League team after all. Saha is a great striker when fit and is a good backup to Yakubu, especially with Vaughan and Cheeby waiting in the wings.

 

 

Did I mention Leighton Baines' free kicks can outrun speeding bullets?

[Philinsuffolk]

This is a good thread, well thought out views all of which have merit and thankfully people aren't resorting to insulting each other's views (long may it continue!).

 

My own personal view is that I see our situation as being largely reflected in the game in general - both in England and across Europe.

Yep, frustrating summer for us - I agree.

 

However, come Monday night at the end of the deadline, take our squad and ask yourself how many teams in the Prem you would swap it for in a whole squad swap. For me, the top 4 and maybe (?) Spurs.

If people agree with that, we have something like the 5th or 6th best squad in England. Rank the manager..again top 4 or 5 in the Prem.

Its the same in Europe - Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc. UEFA and the big clubs have got the system stitched up to protect those clubs now and they have to seriously mess up for them to fall away from the top table, same for our top 4 too.

To make the break through into the top 4 will need about £40m more investment (assuming no further investment for the likes of Liverpool or Arsenal). Like it or not, that money simply isn't there. Nor are people queing up to give that kind of money at this point.

 

The progress over the last 5 years has been fantastic and I love the fact we are doing it the hard way. If Abromovich decided he wanted to sell Chelsea and buy Everton, I'd be gutted. I still think we are going forward and the point is this - as a professional (just like anyone who takes their job seriously), Moyes is very ambitious and the moment he decides we can't go further, he will go. He hasn't gone yet, which means he thinks we can go further - which is encouraging.

 

Just my view.