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RuffRob

Fa Cup Winners Or 4th

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Both still tough tasks considering the hurdles - but both much shorter odds than back in August.

 

So if you had the choice what would it be - FA Cup glory - or Champion's League Football (and I am assuming we would at least get to the group stages and the money it would bring - what is it about £25M say)

 

Interesting question becasue -

 

A FA Cup is a decent bit of silverware (which is hard to comeby these days) and be forever written in the history. But financially is neither here or there.

 

or

 

The CL and the money along with the carrot it would dangle to potential signings.

 

My heart says FA Cup, but the head says the CL would maybe do us better with regarding the future.

 

FA Cup winners for me though

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Can i be greedy and ask for both. :D

Would love both but either would be fantastic. Cup win didn't do Pompey much good so for long term stability gotta say 4th. Would be great to win a trophy though particulary as it would have meant kocking out the shite, villa, mancs and arse or chelsea. I honestly don't know which means it been a bit of a waste of time replying right?? :)

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My heart says FA Cup, but the head says the CL would maybe do us better with regarding the future.

 

FA Cup winners for me though

 

good question there rob, but i think you summed it up perfectly.

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FA Cup all the way, we're still not good enough for CL in my opinion, and I think we'd do better to have a shot at the europa league next year.

 

I agree.... FA cup would be a nice piece of silverware to add to the cabinet, and I think we've got more of a chance of winning something like the Europe League/Cup (whatever its called nowadays).

 

End the end of the day, I want us to win something. 4th's all well and good, but it's not winning anything.

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i want us to win the fa cup but id love 4th so id say both :)

 

 

but we are good enough for the group stages of the champions league and with the money that it generates we can add the quality we need

 

we are certainly good enough for the champions league could u imagine a tuesday night everton playing barcelona in the champions league it would be great

 

and u never know a decent draw and a bit of luck and we could make the knockout stage

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I would obviously love both but i would say the FAcup is the most logical choice as already said we are not good enough to challenge the big teams in Europe maybe with abit more quality and depth to the squad but as it stands not much chance whereas we would have a much better chance in the European cup, so FA cup please :lol:

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I think that if we went into Europa we would have a decent chance of actually winning it. With the performances that we have been putting in throughout this season we could look at challenging the holders and pushing for the final. I do not think that we are ready for the Champions League however. It would be good to be in yes, but I don't want it to be like last time where we flop at the Qualifying stages, if we did get into 4th I think that the groups would be a minimum. The whole Europe thing is relitavly new to us so I think out best bet would be to hold out for Europa.

 

And the FA Cup is what gets remembered. 6th place & FA Cup winners suits me fine. It would be a great achievement and thats the thing that we need to push for, silverware. Through silverware comes the whole package of being a top football club. We would be known as the two time FA Cup winners (in recent years) which would improve our clubs status.

 

I want the cup.

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its the f a cup for me.....i think you will find theres more money in the fa cup than in the uefa cup....we arnt ready for the champions league yet maybe the following year...anyway i think we are on target for a record turnover this year.

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I was wondering, is there any good money in winning the fa cup?

 

Good question, hadn't thought of that.

 

Looked it up, we've earned £775,000 in prize money so far, guaranteed another £500,000 even if we were to lose to ManU. If we were to win it'd be £1m and then the final winners get another £2m, runners-up £1m.

 

Useful money but not a patch on the Champs League.

 

The problem with going for the Europa next season, which as has been said we'd have a chance of winning with a bit of luck and form, is that it'll take nineteen games to achieve that. That's an extra half season, with our squad size? League form would definitely suffer. Better for me to go into the Champs League group stage, earn the money, get knocked out so we can concentrate on our league position and use the money to increase squad size and quality for a serious go at Europe in the following years. Simple :) .

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the way we can get more money into the club and improve is making champions league!

 

champs league would bring in at least 20 million pounds wouldnt so it would be great for our transfer budget and then hopefully we could add players but not lose any

 

(well vic can go, so can AVDM)

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4TH for me. As much as I would love the cup it wouldnt help us long term.

 

£20mill+ from the group stages of the champs league would do us nicely, and we are one of the few clubs who has a chairman who loves the club and I'm betting he would release the whole amount to Moyesy along with the usual £15mill he seems to raise every season.

So a transfer kitty of around £30-35mill added to the quality we already have sounds a really exciting proposition.

 

Still its a bit of a dream as I personally think arsenal will get the 4th spot, but hey the boys have suprised me so far this season so why not!!!!

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Good question, hadn't thought of that.

 

Looked it up, we've earned £775,000 in prize money so far, guaranteed another £500,000 even if we were to lose to ManU. If we were to win it'd be £1m and then the final winners get another £2m, runners-up £1m.

 

Useful money but not a patch on the Champs League.

 

The problem with going for the Europa next season, which as has been said we'd have a chance of winning with a bit of luck and form, is that it'll take nineteen games to achieve that. That's an extra half season, with our squad size? League form would definitely suffer. Better for me to go into the Champs League group stage, earn the money, get knocked out so we can concentrate on our league position and use the money to increase squad size and quality for a serious go at Europe in the following years. Simple :) .

My thoughts exactly, we'd all love to win the cup but there is no comparison financially between winning the cup and qualifying for the Champions League. Winning the cup would make us all feel good for a year or two but make no lasting difference, getting into the Champions League could quite easily make us between £10-20m which could help transform our club. I'd have to choose 4th place over winning the cup.

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I'm betting he would release the whole amount to Moyesy along with the usual £15mill he seems to raise every season.

So a transfer kitty of around £30-35mill added to the quality we already have sounds a really exciting proposition.

 

Let me know where you buy your cornflakes from mate they seem to have magical effect :lol:

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It would have to be fourth for me, gives the club a much higher profile, financially we'd be better off.....................but why not win both and then the kids will have at least seen us win a trophy!!!

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FA Cup. Everyday of the week. Nobody remembers who finishes 4th. We have proven that already. The money of the CL would be good but I would honestly prefer to win a trophy then have no chance of really competing in another.

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FA Cup. Everyday of the week. Nobody remembers who finishes 4th. We have proven that already. The money of the CL would be good but I would honestly prefer to win a trophy then have no chance of really competing in another.

We have as much chance winning the FA Cup as the Champions League surely, all the best teams in Europe are in the Premier League, hence why Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd and Liverpool are all in the latter stages. The FA Cup is a brief joy, Champions League qualification (not getting knocked out before we qualify like last time) is potentially a defining moment. Just ask Portsmouth what they'd prefer, they won the cup last year and look at them now. Getting into the top 4 again would prove that it's no fluke and would prove how good a team we have, it would be an absolutely unbelievable achievement considering the injuries we've had. Moyes must once again be in the running for manager of the year.

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My thoughts exactly, we'd all love to win the cup but there is no comparison financially between winning the cup and qualifying for the Champions League. Winning the cup would make us all feel good for a year or two but make no lasting difference, getting into the Champions League could quite easily make us between £10-20m which could help transform our club. I'd have to choose 4th place over winning the cup.

 

The FA CUP for me, that way at least the "noughties" wont be a barren decade for us and well, we all saw what can happen after an FA CUP win back in 1984 (ignore what happened after 1995 :blink: )

 

In fact if we dont win it then I believe it would be our 2nd most barren spell in our history. And if we win nowt for 3 seasons after this it WILL be our most barren period EVER!!!. And I dont want that.

 

I know we need money and if we get in the chumps league it will mean more cash and in turn more chance of competing etc. But as we all know money DOES NOT guarantee success.

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The FA CUP for me, that way at least the "noughties" wont be a barren decade for us and well, we all saw what can happen after an FA CUP win back in 1984 (ignore what happened after 1995 :blink: )

 

In fact if we dont win it then I believe it would be our 2nd most barren spell in our history. And if we win nowt for 3 seasons after this it WILL be our most barren period EVER!!!. And I dont want that.

 

I know we need money and if we get in the chumps league it will mean more cash and in turn more chance of competing etc. But as we all know money DOES NOT guarantee success.

At the same token, I can virtually guarantee that no money does guarantee you no success. Looking at our league run in and the remaining games that we have in the FA Cup, one could argue that finishing 4th in the league is a more realistic aim than winning the cup. I'd be happy with either, winning something would be brilliant but for me, finishing 4th would be like winning the league.

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At the same token, I can virtually guarantee that no money does guarantee you no success. Looking at our league run in and the remaining games that we have in the FA Cup, one could argue that finishing 4th in the league is a more realistic aim than winning the cup. I'd be happy with either, winning something would be brilliant but for me, finishing 4th would be like winning the league.

 

And there speaks the voice of youth (I'm guessing there like). But I think people of my age (late 30's) and older perhaps view the FA CUP with more importance than younger folk (and maybe more importance than it deserves nowadays??).

 

Sorry but I cant subscribe to the idea that finishing 4th would be like "winning the league".

 

For me finishing 4th would be like... er, finishing 4th. But hey, thats just me.

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Cup, we aint got a strong enough squad to compete in the C.L. ..........YET

It's not about competing in the CL at the moment, it's about getting into the CL, getting the money to strengthen the team/squad and then trying to finish 4th again when hopefully we will be able to compete. We're never going to be strong enough unless we get some money and we're never going to get any money until we either qualify or get taken over - and to be taken over we probably need to be a more attractive proposition and the CL would help! I'd far rather we kept our current leadership (ie not be taken over like Man City) and started to get increased revenue from the CL to transfer our fortunes.

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It's not about competing in the CL at the moment, it's about getting into the CL, getting the money to strengthen the team/squad and then trying to finish 4th again when hopefully we will be able to compete. We're never going to be strong enough unless we get some money and we're never going to get any money until we either qualify or get taken over - and to be taken over we probably need to be a more attractive proposition and the CL would help! I'd far rather we kept our current leadership (ie not be taken over like Man City) and started to get increased revenue from the CL to transfer our fortunes.

 

we aint going to compete with the big spenders untill some oil tycoon buys us, there are a lot of teams with billions to spend in England now so we cant guatantee the top 6 or 7 every year at the moment, Villa, Man City, Spurs, West Ham to name a few will surely strengthen in the summer.

i would happily take the cup FOR NOW

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Just think on for a moment lads, what did winning the cup do for Pompey??????????????????/// sweet FA

 

 

Put them into the history books as winners of the FA cup 2007-08, gave their fans something to be happy about/great day out, maybe picked up a few new fans because of the publicity, gave them a small but decent amount of prize money.All the players recieved a winners medal, and gained valuable experience of that type of ocassion........YEH!, they got nothing out of it!

Some very average Portsmouth player may end his career with an FA cup winners medal, what's Cahill or Arteta got....at the moment?

 

 

So ok, they have followed that with a very poor season! That's got nothing to do with winning the FA cup....has it :huh:

 

Let's win the cup, and take it from there.Squads too small for champions league!

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Just think on for a moment lads, what did winning the cup do for Pompey??????????????????/// sweet FA

 

What did the Champions League do for Leeds?

 

We aint ready for it as much as i would love to be in it

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What did the Champions League do for Leeds?

 

We aint ready for it as much as i would love to be in it

 

If we can qualify with our injury list what makes you all think that we are not ready for it yet, based on that logic we'll never be ready. All four Prem sides have made it to the last eight and I would imagine they will predominate in the remaining matches. If we are to evolve as a club you have to grasp your chances when they come along. I have always said that the club needs a trophy but we also need a much higher profile and that is what the C/L brings.

 

Pompey won the cup, they are now struggling for Prem survival as they looked on the cup win as a montain top, its not even halfway to the summit. As for Leeds, they spent like no tomorrow, we already have the players.....................God I do wish some of you would believe, ask david Moyes what he would want and it would be C/L every time :mellow:

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where has the romance gone? the childhood dreams?

i dont know about anyone else, but when i was a kid playing at wembley (my garden or the park) i never ran out (in my head) onto that pitch to win everton 4th place, i wanted to lift a trophy. i wanted to walk up them steps and pick up a medal. i never wanted to make the club financially sound. just a point i wanted to make.

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If we can qualify with our injury list what makes you all think that we are not ready for it yet, based on that logic we'll never be ready. All four Prem sides have made it to the last eight and I would imagine they will predominate in the remaining matches. If we are to evolve as a club you have to grasp your chances when they come along. I have always said that the club needs a trophy but we also need a much higher profile and that is what the C/L brings.

 

Pompey won the cup, they are now struggling for Prem survival as they looked on the cup win as a montain top, its not even halfway to the summit. As for Leeds, they spent like no tomorrow, we already have the players.....................God I do wish some of you would believe, ask david Moyes what he would want and it would be C/L every time :mellow:

[/quot

 

All 4 teams have qualified for the next round as they have very good, large squads and how much have they all spent on their players? We have a good first team, and without 1 or 2 stars, we rely on 16 or 17 year old kids. We simply cant compete with them financially.

We can no way guarantee a top 4 spot every year at this moment in time and it would be be silly to believe otherwise untill we can compete.

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I wouldn't say Liverpool have a massive squad, they are totally reliant on Torres and Gerrard, they only have one decent striker (Torres) and no decent wingers. Winning the cup would be nice but it won't make any difference to the fortunes of Everton football club, it's just a nice day out and some history, qualifying for the CL could transform the club - that is the difference.

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I wouldn't say Liverpool have a massive squad, they are totally reliant on Torres and Gerrard, they only have one decent striker (Torres) and no decent wingers. Winning the cup would be nice but it won't make any difference to the fortunes of Everton football club, it's just a nice day out and some history, qualifying for the CL could transform the club - that is the difference.

 

 

Could we beat Madrid or any other CL team 4-0?

 

How much money has Penfold wasted getting them where they are, we just cant find anywhere near that sort of money.

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I would take CL over FA Cup, financially to compete we need the CL money without this i dont think Moyes can take us onto the next level. The romance of the cup would be great, however from a revenue point of view it has to be the CL.

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Different club, different setup, different situation.....

 

 

....so what's your point?

 

 

Check what I've said EW. if you can't understand that let me know B)

 

Could we beat Madrid or any other CL team 4-0?

 

How much money has Penfold wasted getting them where they are, we just cant find anywhere near that sort of money.

 

 

Penfold has been wasting a lot of C/L money. You have no need to beat teams 4 - 0, normally the shite scrape through ties and I'm sure we could do the same. IMO we are as good as Rangers or Celtic, better than a lot of teams who play in the C/L but for some reason people don't want Moyes and the boys to qualify for something they have worked towards all season...............................its that I can't understand. Most of you already know I would like a cup win for the kids, lets qualify for the C/L for the men (and women)

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Pompey won the cup, they are now struggling for Prem survival as they looked on the cup win as a montain top, its not even halfway to the summit. As for Leeds, they spent like no tomorrow, we already have the players.....................God I do wish some of you would believe, ask david Moyes what he would want and it would be C/L every time :mellow:

 

For Portsmouth it most likely was the summit. We are Everton and we have been to the summit before.

 

From what youve said its like you think that by winning the FA CUP we will somehow follow in Portsmouth's footsteps and struggle the following season.

 

Yes the Chumps League money would be nice BUT Who is to say its going to flow on to the team. Its possible it will pay a few debts off and Moyes will see very little of it.

 

AND...Remember last time we finished 4th and got it the CL?. Didnt do us any good then did it.

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As much as I'd love to have both, I really can't see them both happening, especially with finishing 4th. Arsenal are starting to pick it up, I think they will be very hard to finish above now based on current form and the fact they will most probably finish very strong, although I'll still hope for a miracle.

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For Portsmouth it most likely was the summit. We are Everton and we have been to the summit before.

 

From what youve said its like you think that by winning the FA CUP we will somehow follow in Portsmouth's footsteps and struggle the following season.

 

Yes the Chumps League money would be nice BUT Who is to say its going to flow on to the team. Its possible it will pay a few debts off and Moyes will see very little of it.

 

AND...Remember last time we finished 4th and got it the CL?. Didnt do us any good then did it.

 

so tell me why Moyes prefers the C/L to the cup or is he wrong as well?

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Could we beat Madrid or any other CL team 4-0?

 

How much money has Penfold wasted getting them where they are, we just cant find anywhere near that sort of money.

You missed my point, I didn't say Liverpool don't have a stronger team (although as our recent matches proved, not by much) all I'm saying is they don't have much strength in depth which is why they aren't winning the league even though they have beaten Man Utd and Chelsea twice. They lack the resources to rotate successfully as they have no one in reserve who can do anything like the job Gerrard and Torres do. That was my point. Yes, we don't have a very big squad but like Liverpool, we have a very good team so I see no reason why we couldn't win a few matches.

 

Maghull, last time we won the cup (95) it didn't help us one bit, since we qualified for the CL a few years back we have steadily improved year on year and not looked back. Also, I don't think anyone in their right mind is suggesting that we'd rather finish 4th in the league, get knocked out again in qualifying, over winning the FA Cup. What we are suggesting is that we'd rather finish 4th, qualify for the CL properly and earn the £10-20m guaranteed whilst enhancing our reputation in Europe and allowing Moyes some room to spend in the transfer market, rather than winning a trophy which whilst very nice will only help enhancce our history rather than our future.

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You missed my point, I didn't say Liverpool don't have a stronger team (although as our recent matches proved, not by much) all I'm saying is they don't have much strength in depth which is why they aren't winning the league even though they have beaten Man Utd and Chelsea twice. They lack the resources to rotate successfully as they have no one in reserve who can do anything like the job Gerrard and Torres do. That was my point. Yes, we don't have a very big squad but like Liverpool, we have a very good team so I see no reason why we couldn't win a few matches.

 

Maghull, last time we won the cup (95) it didn't help us one bit, since we qualified for the CL a few years back we have steadily improved year on year and not looked back. Also, I don't think anyone in their right mind is suggesting that we'd rather finish 4th in the league, get knocked out again in qualifying, over winning the FA Cup. What we are suggesting is that we'd rather finish 4th, qualify for the CL properly and earn the £10-20m guaranteed whilst enhancing our reputation in Europe and allowing Moyes some room to spend in the transfer market, rather than winning a trophy which whilst very nice will only help enhancce our history rather than our future.

 

Carl, I could not agree with you more mate, we need ambition. Its noticeable that no one will dispute the fact that the gaffer wants C/L as well :)

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Not really wanting to drag this thread into the realms of fantasy.....but I'm going to anyway!

 

Cup or 4th!.......Blah!, Blah!,Blah.......Probably neither, both would be good.One better for us than the other, but which and why!.....this thread will continue untill one or both are won or out of reach.

 

It was a good question, and still is, and has certainly got us all thinking.

 

BUT my little fantasy..(well the one I'm going to share with you lot :rolleyes: )...is

 

 

And I know you shouldn't/can't do things like this....but!

 

If through the changing room door walked a fully fit Arteta, Yakubu and Vaughan, maybe even Hibbert.....Then I would say that a team, with some or all of these players in it would, with our run in make 4th place......Hell, could even win the cup!

 

So that's my new choice......BOTH Cup and 4th place....Oh and that would be 3rd place if Carsley hadn't gone :angry: .......See you shouldn't really start theses games, just never know when to leave it.

Anyway, stop looking back get in the real world.....Man Utd have taken a serious confidence knock, we can win the FA cup, and Villa and Arsenal can be caught.

 

So that's still my new choice BOTH!

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so tell me why Moyes prefers the C/L to the cup or is he wrong as well?

 

As an Employee of EFC its obvious Moyes would want the CL spot.

As a supporter I want silverware.

 

Am I wrong for wanting that?.

 

People often talk about money spoiling the game and with talk of finishing 4th being preferable to winning the FA Cup because of the influx of cash it will bring then its easy to see why.

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As an Employee of EFC its obvious Moyes would want the CL spot.

As a supporter I want silverware.

 

Am I wrong for wanting that?.

 

People often talk about money spoiling the game and with talk of finishing 4th being preferable to winning the FA Cup because of the influx of cash it will bring then its easy to see why.

We all want silverware, but we want it regularly rather than having to wait another 14 years. Without money it's going to get harder and harder to win anything, it's already basically impossible to win the league without serious financial backing and the fact that hardly anyone but the big 4 has won the FA Cup in the last 10 years suggests that the same is true with the major cup competitions. The fact is the game HAS moved on and money is important to try and achieve continued success and not just a one off cup win. Winning the FA Cup is short-term, qualifying for the CL is long-term.

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I think it's more a point of deserving it this year, we played shit in the start of the year and don't reallly deserve 4th unless we keep getting the wins, and play as good as we know we can.

 

While the cup we played Liverpool twice, Villa, Borough, and now Man U, and probably Chelsea in the final, it just feels like we earned it. No other team played as many prem teams as us and we did well to get to the semi's.

 

I'm sort of swaying towards C/L though, mainly because we have a few players to come back and we have a chance to strengthen the squad in the summer with some loans and frees, and maybe one big buy or 2 mediums.

 

Plus, we could at least get past the qualifiers, after all we're a stronger team now than when we first qualified a few years ago. I'm sure we'd make the group stages.

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Not when you stumble at the first hurdle like last time.

as I said before, this topic is a What if? I think both Jimmy and I are advocating 4th place on the basis that we DO qualify for the CL as otherwise you'd have to be clinically insane to want to finish 4th over winning the cup if we were to be humiliated in qualifying again.

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I actually think nicking 4th place is more likley that winning the FA cup in all honesty, considering we are likey going to need to beat both Man U and Cheslea. Argubly the best two teams in Europe . Shame we have managed to get to the semi finals the year the other three semi finalists are likely to be Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U.

 

If we managed to win the FA cup this season we will have had to have beat 4 of the 5 top teams in the Premiership, it will not have been a cup run of lucky draws against lower league teams, it will be an 'epic' cup run by any teams standard. Last season Portsmouth were the only Prem team in the last 4 and where favs going in to the last 4 - we are this years outsider.

 

Is the FA cup a second rate competition? - Before Pompey won it last season, the last non top 4 club to win the trophy was Everton back in 1995!!! The FA cup is still a major trophy in my eyes, and very difficult to win

 

The Premiership, the Champions Leauge then the FA cup - we are not going to win the first too in a month of sundays given the current football climate, and it is bloody hard to win the third. If we won the FA Cup this year, given the draws we have had then to me it would be a massive achivement.

 

Qualification to the Champions League could be £20M in the bank and could also be a whole load of heart ache getting some footballing lessons from some savy top european teams, are we really of CL quality? £20M, while it would be most welcome, is still not going to all of a sudden going to make us punch with the big boys in the transfer market.

 

As a few have already said it is no contest - Lifting the cup actually blows 4th place in the league out of the water for me. Although 4th place may actually be the easier task.

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