Lay Off Hibbert And Osman

[eddie blue]

There seems to be a lot of stick for these two players which i feel is undeserved.Osman and hibbert and have both completed close on 170 appearances. bad players dont play this amount of games if they are rubbish. also both players came through the ranks and cost us nothing. they are Everton through and through and give everything for Everton they have both made a massive contribution in helping us finish in Europe and getting to the cup final.I know they are not top class but they have my respect and hope that they both end there careers with us. i know i am probably in the minority . but well done Leon and Tony and thank you for your efforts this season

[MikeO]

Wouldn't disagree with a lot of that and I've a lot of time for both of them, Ossie in particular. But you'd need to be very short-sighted not to acknowledge that they are two of the weaker links when we play the top teams.

I wouldn't sell them, decent squad players but if we're going to move on we need quality all over the pitch.

[Guest efctaxi]

To be fair , we're not talking about our mates playing Sunday league here .

 

Both these guys are on huge amounts of money and all the benefits that go with it during their stay at Everton .

 

When they play well , they get applauded , and when they don't , they don't .

 

The players carry the dreams of every fan on their shoulders when they step out on that pitch , and only the most deserving should be given that responsibility .

 

Both have had good games this year , particularly Hibbert , yet both have been found wanting also ; especially Osman .

 

I'm all for offering our players every support possible , but it's time to start earning it as far as our team goes .

 

Both are worthy squad members , but let's face it ; Their lesser performances are making their place in a starting 11 very debatable .

Edited June 1, 2009 by efctaxi

[ooberman]

Wouldn't disagree with a lot of that and I've a lot of time for both of them, Ossie in particular. But you'd need to be very short-sighted not to acknowledge that they are two of the weaker links when we play the top teams.

I wouldn't sell them, decent squad players but if we're going to move on we need quality all over the pitch.

this

[eddie blue]

Wouldn't disagree with a lot of that and I've a lot of time for both of them, Ossie in particular. But you'd need to be very short-sighted not to acknowledge that they are two of the weaker links when we play the top teams.

I wouldn't sell them, decent squad players but if we're going to move on we need quality all over the pitch.

Agree with you they are both good squad players but they do not deserve to be singled out for the defeat on SaturdaY Moyes knows there are better players he could buy but we dont have the money so we have to do the best we can with what we have

[StevO]

have nothing but respect for them both, and ive always been a fan of hibbos tough tackling style (which seems to have been lost in recent times) and osmans ability to unlock defences with a shuffle of his feet (again, lost in recent times and frustrating as we know what he can do)

but to move on they are the next ones to be replaced.

moyes way has always been to slowly replace player for player with more quality. they must be next.

[eddie blue]

have nothing but respect for them both, and ive always been a fan of hibbos tough tackling style (which seems to have been lost in recent times) and osmans ability to unlock defences with a shuffle of his feet (again, lost in recent times and frustrating as we know what he can do)

but to move on they are the next ones to be replaced.

moyes way has always been to slowly replace player for player with more quality. they must be next.

who would you like to replace them. bearing in mind we could not afford massive money?

[StevO]

if we were to sign ledley they pienaar can replace osman on the right. bentley will be going cheap this summer.

hibbo can be replaced by jacobson (ive not been a fan but he looks better now) or neville is still our best right back imo if we could bring in another midfielder (i dream of moutinho but hope is fading on that one)

we must have at least £15m to spend in the summer, they could both be replaced with that money, and im sure moyes will know that.

£15m could bring in one quality player and another good one, and we could get owen on a free to bolster the front line a bit. but id be happy to spend a big chunk of that on one very very good player. id be happy to see £10m go on glen johnson if we could tempt him.

[c1982]

I like both Hibbert and Osman but like most people here have said they need to be squad players if we're going to push-on.

 

Hibbo - I thought he would be an England international when he broke on to the scene around the same time as Rooney - his tackling was quality and I was really hopeful - but he's not really improved over the last 5 years or so. Far too many times he makes costly mistakes - a lot of the time positional mistakes on crosses and generally in open play. Yes he still has his games where he doesn't give left wingers a sniff but I think he's very suspect and you look over to the left and see baines and pienaar and appreciate how important the wide positions are, going forward and working back. Where hibbert is good at defending his attacking play is poor. I would actually sell hibbert.

 

Osman - I would keep him as a squad player. He can be the best player on the pitch, but you usually find this is against your hulls and middlesborough's, far too many times he's lost against decent teams. Okay he's been used a lot on the right and his best position is through the middle but you find against the top teams Leon wants an extra second on the ball and that's when the true class shows - arteta, cahill and pienaar don't need that extra second. He's useful in my opinion but as a squad player only. From what you here from other players in interviews etc, he's a good character so he's probably a good one to keep around (ability wise too!)

 

If say we could get Bentley for say £10m and Naughton for say £4m I'd be chuffed because both are better than what we have currently in my opinion.

[Blue 250]

I would say that the FA cup final was Hibbert and Osmans biggest ever game, neither are internationals and whilst a few other Everton players were possibly the same maybe, just maybe it got to those two more.Hibbert shouldn't have been booked, and he knew the risks that went with that, ie another wrong or right yellow and he was off!He probaly knew Chelsea were going to bomb down his wing.....and from what I saw he lost it a bit, legs just went! Could make him stronger in the long run? and I wouldn't want him to leave the club.Same with Ossman scored two great goals at Fulham the other week and gave them all kinds of trouble.We know we need a bigger squad and to get rid of two local boys,who probably aren't exactly the big earners would be crazy......they will both I hope play a big part in an even better season ahead of us.

 

The dust has settled from Wembly now, and the people who were proud of the lads and rightly so will now start wondering why we didn't play better, didn't put up more of a fight.....didn't win!

 

I hope they look way beyond just Osman and Hibbert.

[eddie blue]

I would say that the FA cup final was Hibbert and Osmans biggest ever game, neither are internationals and whilst a few other Everton players were possibly the same maybe, just maybe it got to those two more.Hibbert shouldn't have been booked, and he knew the risks that went with that, ie another wrong or right yellow and he was off!He probaly knew Chelsea were going to bomb down his wing.....and from what I saw he lost it a bit, legs just went! Could make him stronger in the long run? and I wouldn't want him to leave the club.Same with Ossman scored two great goals at Fulham the other week and gave them all kinds of trouble.We know we need a bigger squad and to get rid of two local boys,who probably aren't exactly the big earners would be crazy......they will both I hope play a big part in an even better season ahead of us.

 

The dust has settled from Wembly now, and the people who were proud of the lads and rightly so will now start wondering why we didn't play better, didn't put up more of a fight.....didn't win!

 

I hope they look way beyond just Osman and Hibbert.

agree fully good comments

[DangerMouse]

I believe we have just come to a point were they are now the weak links in our starting eleven and for us to improve they need to be replaced......

 

Id have both on the bench for now as ideal replacements.....

[MikeO]

Here's a funny thing....looking back over a previous MOTM thread....

 

ossie i thought, hibbert played suprisingly well

Hibbert for me put in some great crosses.

Plus Cahill, Arteta and Ossie all did well.

Two big let downs for me were Pienaar and Fellaini...

Gone for Ossie myself but it's nice to have a few to pick from. Here's a quote you don't see to often from the beebs report...

"Everton looked the more likely to take a lead as Hibbert, a constant source of effective crosses from the right wing all evening, whipped in a pacy cross for Fellaini."

Was close between Osman and Hibbert , but my vote goes to Hibbert

Pienaar must be taking passing lessons from Neville...

I will leave the "I told you so" for the Hibbert thread...

In a match when quite a few played up to their "Normal" i give my vote to Osman, theres a few players who after getting wacked the way he did would have looked for the easy option and come of injured, it shows how Ossie is always up for a scrap that he chose to stay on.

Just watched the tape as I was out this morning when the match was on, Ossie was the best player on the pitch looked absolutely world class.

Osman was our most consistent player...

I also gave my vte to Hibbert. Osman very close though. Hibbert started shaky but as the game wore on he was v good.

Hibbert put in a damn good shift.

 

 

 

Opposition?

Chelsea in December: Cech, Bosingwa, Alex, Terry, Ashley Cole, Mikel, Joe Cole (Ivanovic 46), Ballack, Lampard, Deco (Bridge 87), Anelka (Drogba 46).

Admittedly they played a lot of the game with ten men, but interesting all the same.

[jamiemaher85]

I would say that the FA cup final was Hibbert and Osmans biggest ever game, neither are internationals and whilst a few other Everton players were possibly the same maybe, just maybe it got to those two more.Hibbert shouldn't have been booked, and he knew the risks that went with that, ie another wrong or right yellow and he was off!He probaly knew Chelsea were going to bomb down his wing.....and from what I saw he lost it a bit, legs just went! Could make him stronger in the long run? and I wouldn't want him to leave the club.Same with Ossman scored two great goals at Fulham the other week and gave them all kinds of trouble.We know we need a bigger squad and to get rid of two local boys,who probably aren't exactly the big earners would be crazy......they will both I hope play a big part in an even better season ahead of us.

 

The dust has settled from Wembly now, and the people who were proud of the lads and rightly so will now start wondering why we didn't play better, didn't put up more of a fight.....didn't win!

 

I hope they look way beyond just Osman and Hibbert.

Yes he should! It was a stupid challenge, if it was later in the game it could have been alot worse.

[DangerMouse]

I think since the Man City game our right flank has been identified as a weak point in a solid defence..... when teams purposely play on you your going to get found out.... Before that we looked solid... now everything comes down our right flank....

 

you could see malouda just sitting wide more or less on hibberts shoulder sometimes.... Chelsea tried time and time again to get one on one with hibbert and they did it well..... alot of that was down to Osman not tracking back or loosing the ball early...

 

Before that City game.... we all may have thought of Hibbert and Osman as our week point but now the opposition knows it too.... hes been raped now at least three times this season........ Young, Robino & Malouda..... on the other hand hes had some in his back pocket...

 

Is he just a Jekyll and Hide player or does he just struggle against pace & skill........ if thats the case who wouldn't fall to pieces in a one on one scenario.....

 

I like Hibbert and honestly think the biggest problem is Osman..... He doesn't track back, he loses the ball in bad positions and sometimes his decision making and vision are poor..... the amount of times you see Hibbert making a run and Osman gets stuck with the ball.... no wonder Hibbert doesn't want to go forward...... I'm not saying hes Ashley Cole there before you all point out....

 

A fast paced right sided midfielder would do us nicely....... Apparently Sung at United might be on his way........ just the player we need... a Moysie type player too, hardworking and commited....

Edited June 1, 2009 by DangerMouse

[c1982]

A fast paced right sided midfielder would do us nicely....... Apparently Sung at United might be on his way........ just the player we need... a Moysie type player too, hardworking and commited....

 

...and worth a few £££mil in asian shirt sales too!!!

[c1982]

Apparently Sung at United might be on his way

 

Be on his way to us or just on his way out of united?

 

Either way he's sung his last song song at united's park! Gee that was awful! or should I say Ji that was awful!

[zequist]

Funny, there was an article only a month ago reporting that Park was about to sign a four-year extension at ManU and quoting him as saying he had no desire to leave "the best club in the world".

[c1982]

Funny, there was an article only a month ago reporting that Park was about to sign a four-year extension at ManU and quoting him as saying he had no desire to leave "the best club in the world".

 

I don't think he'll leave to be honest, he seems to play in most of their big games.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I like both Hibbert and Osman but like most people here have said they need to be squad players if we're going to push-on.

 

Hibbo - I thought he would be an England international when he broke on to the scene around the same time as Rooney - his tackling was quality and I was really hopeful - but he's not really improved over the last 5 years or so. Far too many times he makes costly mistakes - a lot of the time positional mistakes on crosses and generally in open play. Yes he still has his games where he doesn't give left wingers a sniff but I think he's very suspect and you look over to the left and see baines and pienaar and appreciate how important the wide positions are, going forward and working back. Where hibbert is good at defending his attacking play is poor. I would actually sell hibbert.

 

Osman - I would keep him as a squad player. He can be the best player on the pitch, but you usually find this is against your hulls and middlesborough's, far too many times he's lost against decent teams. Okay he's been used a lot on the right and his best position is through the middle but you find against the top teams Leon wants an extra second on the ball and that's when the true class shows - arteta, cahill and pienaar don't need that extra second. He's useful in my opinion but as a squad player only. From what you here from other players in interviews etc, he's a good character so he's probably a good one to keep around (ability wise too!)

 

If say we could get Bentley for say £10m and Naughton for say £4m I'd be chuffed because both are better than what we have currently in my opinion.

 

 

Fair comments i agree entirely with all of that

[jamiemaher85]

The problem with Hibbert and Osman is that the club has moved forwards alot in the last few years, the quality within the league has also moved on a great deal. Hibbo and Ossie however have not. They have served a purpose for the club but it is now painfully apparent that fresh blood needs to be brought into the right hand side of our squad. Its a natural thing. Teams will evolve and players need to move forwards in accordance with that. Ossie and Hibbert have not kicked on as some of us may have predicited or hoped. This is a sport and this is also a business. Unfortunatly if we want success then we cant get overly sentimental with these two. We need to look to the future and not tie ourselves to the past simply because of alligence.

[EFC-Paul]

The problem with Hibbert and Osman is that the club has moved forwards alot in the last few years, the quality within the league has also moved on a great deal. Hibbo and Ossie however have not. They have served a purpose for the club but it is now painfully apparent that fresh blood needs to be brought into the right hand side of our squad. Its a natural thing. Teams will evolve and players need to move forwards in accordance with that. Ossie and Hibbert have not kicked on as some of us may have predicited or hoped. This is a sport and this is also a business. Unfortunatly if we want success then we cant get overly sentimental with these two. We need to look to the future and not tie ourselves to the past simply because of alligence.

 

Agree a 100% Jamie

[scouse]

Agree with Jamie to, the right side has got to be our main area of development this season, as always in Moyes we trust.

[The Beard]

The right side definately is an area of concern for me.Chelsea exposed this completely on Saturday. Osman and Hibbert where atrocious and not for the first time either, this isn't any form of withchunt against them, it is the truth. In fairness to Hibbert, although he had a terrible game, Osman offfered him no support at all. I agree with posters who recognise that they have been decent squad players but have just not improved enough. To rebuild effectively it may be worth keeping hold of both in order to increase squad size, which will be essential with the Europa League possibly adding another 17 games next season.

[Guest efctaxi]

Osman scores fabulous goals , of that there is no doubt .

 

You could do a Youtube compilation over the last few years and he would look as good as any other goal scorer on the planet .

 

But is that enough to justify how many times he has been unable to establish himself in a game during the same period ?

 

He can change the outcome of a game for sure .

 

Impact substitution written all over him , but unfortunately not the first name I would put on the sheet anymore .

[Memmaclub]

I think moyes's view that osman can play right wing is what makes him look like a poor player. I can't rember if it was this season or last season but ossie had a run of games playing CM in a position not disimlar to arteta. picking the ball up fron defence running within it and playing simple passes he is also very good at keeping the ball and getting his head up. Also at getting forward and scoring goals (How many has he got this season)

 

I think it was when he was playing that position that moyes was touting him for england and praising him for beefing up his upper body to give him more strength. I personally think Ossie is would be good cover/competition for arteta if he was played in that position.

 

This bring me on to another point I understand each player should have a second position which they can COVER lescott left back jags right back cahill stiker etc etc but they should only be used there when the first and second choice player is out.

 

I don't understand why players are forced out of position when we have cover on the bench for example vaughn/vic not being used when cahill was used as a striker.

 

And if moyes feels he needs to play players out of position when true cover is available I would argue those cover players are not good enough and should be shipped out.

 

There are several players which should be judged like this castillo, vaughn, anichebe, saha, valente and they should be moved on.

[CraccerC]

I think moyes's view that osman can play right wing is what makes him look like a poor player. I can't rember if it was this season or last season but ossie had a run of games playing CM in a position not disimlar to arteta. picking the ball up fron defence running within it and playing simple passes he is also very good at keeping the ball and getting his head up. Also at getting forward and scoring goals (How many has he got this season)

 

I think it was when he was playing that position that moyes was touting him for england and praising him for beefing up his upper body to give him more strength. I personally think Ossie is would be good cover/competition for arteta if he was played in that position.

 

This bring me on to another point I understand each player should have a second position which they can COVER lescott left back jags right back cahill stiker etc etc but they should only be used there when the first and second choice player is out.

 

I don't understand why players are forced out of position when we have cover on the bench for example vaughn/vic not being used when cahill was used as a striker.

 

And if moyes feels he needs to play players out of position when true cover is available I would argue those cover players are not good enough and should be shipped out.

 

There are several players which should be judged like this castillo, vaughn, anichebe, saha, valente and they should be moved on.

 

good player, but has been injure for a long time, you can't really judge him until he's fit with some games under his belt but he's got massive potential

[Memmaclub]

The reason I mentioned Vaughn is even when he is fit moyes doesn't seem to fancy him and played cahill in front of him. Therefore why not sell him off and get someone in he does like. He obviously dose like rodwell and gosling.

[jamiemaher85]

I think loaning him out to get some real experinece would be a great idea. I wouldn't want to sell him just yet. He still has something to prove at the club. I think a 6 month loan out to someone would be perfect for him

[StevO]

The reason I mentioned Vaughn is even when he is fit moyes doesn't seem to fancy him and played cahill in front of him. Therefore why not sell him off and get someone in he does like. He obviously dose like rodwell and gosling.

 

i think hes being very careful with vaughan for now, the kid is coming back from some very bad injuries.