james_clarke Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 under current circumstances do u think that moyes' 4-5-1 system is working with the current players he has at his disposal? myself personally think it is failing big time as he is playing numerous players out of position and the team do't seem to have any shape or drive at all. ok we are missing are main creative forces in pienaar and arteta but moyes has still persisted in the same system that only works when these players are playing. also in this system fellaini and cahill cannot play together and its cahill who is suffering most, being asked to play out wide or deeper in midfield. on top of that he is playing the likes of gosling who is simply not good enough yet and rodwell who still needs time to develop into the player we all know he will be. i feel a decent formation for the moment would be 3-5-2 wingbacks system as it best suits the players we have in the squad and woiuld allow us to play our strongest 11 every game. my team would be: howard heitinga yobo----------distin neill------------------baines rodwell (neville when fit) fellaini-----cahill (billy when back) saha ---------yakubu what do u think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 I dont think its got so much to do with the formation, but more the players we have available. Without our creative players to keep hold of the ball and distribute it wisely the midfield cant get any sort of foothold on the game. At the moment we have the 'workers' of the team and at the moment they arent even doing that. Without the direction from the creative players and leadership from the likes of Neville and Jags, they just seem to be running around like headless chickens. As you righly say Fellaini and Cahill dont really work together and with a fully fit squad this will be a headache for Moyes. They are both very good players in the support striker role and contribute very little anywhere else on the field atm. Its no suprise Fellaini's performances have improved since he has been made to play off the striker, and only dropping deeper when we are under the cosh. If Cahill plays there against Hull then I imagine he will have a good game, and I wouldnt put it past him to score. Similarly in the middle we have Heitinga and Rodwell who are also fairly similar although Jack is more finesse whereas Johnny is more force. They are both not out and out holding players a la Carsley or Neville, and thats the problem, especially against Man U where there was a massive gap on a number of occassions between the defence and midfield. Things could be a whole lot different right now if it was Heitinga and Fellaini injured instead of Neville and Pienaar, as this would give us much more balance in the midfield. It probably wouldnt be brilliant but it would be a lot better (although thats not hard!). If we have no more players injured for wednesday and we play 4-5-1 Id like to see Jo start on the left to hopefully give us some creativity and Cahill off Saha/Yakubu, with the rest as it is (seeing as there is no-one else really available). I wouldnt expect to much tracking back by Jo but I would hope that he would add some more guile (sp?) going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I shit myself enough having Distin in a 4 man defence, a 3 man defence would tip me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Im going to say this here as i have no idea where else to put it. Does anyone else feel like we could have missed a little trick by missing out on Lorik Cana? ok he started slowly, but my god he would have been an ideal replacement for Carsley. Sunderland got him at a bargain price and he has an engine that has no limits, that guy is a machine and currently i feel that Everton are way too soft in the middle of the park. I wouldnt care too much against the big teams playing a 4-5-1 if there was someone in the middle, that the players can trust will keep big game players quiet. Cana did that against Aresnal, he stopped Fabregas playing (not many can say that). £5m for a quality player and someone who opitimises the 'Everton Way', was lost to a club with seemingly higher ambitions? Cana would have been a great addition and could have been the type of player to help ease our current slump by clearing up all the shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Im going to say this here as i have no idea where else to put it. Does anyone else feel like we could have missed a little trick by missing out on Lorik Cana? ok he started slowly, but my god he would have been an ideal replacement for Carsley. Sunderland got him at a bargain price and he has an engine that has no limits, that guy is a machine and currently i feel that Everton are way too soft in the middle of the park. I wouldnt care too much against the big teams playing a 4-5-1 if there was someone in the middle, that the players can trust will keep big game players quiet. Cana did that against Aresnal, he stopped Fabregas playing (not many can say that). £5m for a quality player and someone who opitimises the 'Everton Way', was lost to a club with seemingly higher ambitions? Cana would have been a great addition and could have been the type of player to help ease our current slump by clearing up all the shite. Totally agree Lol wonder if they would swap him for Felli? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I know I would. There is something to what the first poster was saying though. I know that we're in the shit for injuries and will be for a long time. Regardless of injuries we should be picking up full points against teams that we've now lost to or drawn with. The caliber of players we have available currently should be performing better than 14th place no questions. It seems this season that all the fight, grit and bond the boys had last year is completely lost. I, personally, fault Moyes for that. He has failed to conjure anything of great consequence this season and has, tactically, retreated from attack. We have largely been playing the football of a bottom half serie A team (10 in the box and long balls) or dare I say an MLS club. I don't know the best formation, attacking tactics, holding patterns for the players we have and won't claim to know better than anyone at the club, but that's not my job...it's David Moyes' and at the moment, he isn't doing it. I'm hoping for a turn around mid-week, the Tigers should not be a challenge (and the fact that they probably will be scares me); if we don't see control in the middle third, creative (or any) play going forward with purpose, and organized defence I am going to be seriously concerned about the rest of the season. here is what I would play: Howard Neill Distin Yobo Baines Heitinga Gosling Felli Rodwell Saha Yak I hate to have the midfield be soo weak, but atm we haven't really got any options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yeah, I've been watching Sunderland a good deal and Cana certainly hasn't proven to be the reckless nutter some feared. He's not quite as technical as a lot of premier leaguers, but his endeavor is ceaseless and he really drives the team on. Would have been very good to have alongside/replacing Neville in the middle of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Im going to say this here as i have no idea where else to put it. Does anyone else feel like we could have missed a little trick by missing out on Lorik Cana? ok he started slowly, but my god he would have been an ideal replacement for Carsley. Sunderland got him at a bargain price and he has an engine that has no limits, that guy is a machine and currently i feel that Everton are way too soft in the middle of the park. I wouldnt care too much against the big teams playing a 4-5-1 if there was someone in the middle, that the players can trust will keep big game players quiet. Cana did that against Aresnal, he stopped Fabregas playing (not many can say that). £5m for a quality player and someone who opitimises the 'Everton Way', was lost to a club with seemingly higher ambitions? Cana would have been a great addition and could have been the type of player to help ease our current slump by clearing up all the shite. i agree with most of that, though i think Johnny could fill the void left by Carsley. The man is fearless and worked hard against Utd but needs better instruction as to what his position should be, playing along side Rodwell wont work for the same reason Cahill and Screech dont work next to each other, theyre too similar. 1 in front of the other would give us more strength in the centre and more clarity on where each player is playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I know I would. There is something to what the first poster was saying though. I know that we're in the shit for injuries and will be for a long time. Regardless of injuries we should be picking up full points against teams that we've now lost to or drawn with. The caliber of players we have available currently should be performing better than 14th place no questions. It seems this season that all the fight, grit and bond the boys had last year is completely lost. I, personally, fault Moyes for that. He has failed to conjure anything of great consequence this season and has, tactically, retreated from attack. We have largely been playing the football of a bottom half serie A team (10 in the box and long balls) or dare I say an MLS club. I don't know the best formation, attacking tactics, holding patterns for the players we have and won't claim to know better than anyone at the club, but that's not my job...it's David Moyes' and at the moment, he isn't doing it. I'm hoping for a turn around mid-week, the Tigers should not be a challenge (and the fact that they probably will be scares me); if we don't see control in the middle third, creative (or any) play going forward with purpose, and organized defence I am going to be seriously concerned about the rest of the season. here is what I would play: Howard Neill Distin Yobo Baines Heitinga Gosling Felli Rodwell Saha Yak I hate to have the midfield be soo weak, but atm we haven't really got any options. I think it is ludicrous to have a pop at Moyse when we have so many players out injured. Its not as if we are missing a couple of squad players either We have been without our best defender, best midfielder and best CF for the entire season then you add our Captain and our only other playmaker to the long term injury list and its not really rocket science as to why we are struggling Any side in the world would struggle with the amount of long term injuries to key players that we have Felli is suspended by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) I didn't mean to say that we should be playing as world beaters right now, but in all seriousness we have the personnel to take 3 points from Burnley, Stoke, Wolves and Bolton. The fact that we lost two of those games is abhorrent regardless of the injuries we are dealing with. Against tougher opposition (Europe, Top 4, Villa, Spurs, Shitty) I am completely understanding that we will be absolutely exposed, but again against lesser opposition Moyes should be able to muster the tactics to get three points; that's what great managers do. Edited November 24, 2009 by bluenoseyankee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Will Pienaar and Ossy be back for the Hull game? If so i would play something along these lines, If we are comfortable around the last 20 i would put Jo on for Rodwell. ---------------------Howard -------------Distin----------Yobo Neill-----------------------------------Baines -------------------Heitinga ---Osman------------Rodwell-----------Pienaar --------------------Saha -------------------------------Yak Edited November 24, 2009 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 i agree with most of that, though i think Johnny could fill the void left by Carsley. The man is fearless and worked hard against Utd but needs better instruction as to what his position should be, playing along side Rodwell wont work for the same reason Cahill and Screech dont work next to each other, theyre too similar. 1 in front of the other would give us more strength in the centre and more clarity on where each player is playing! I also admire the industry of Johnny, I actually think he's been great thus far. Despite the poor form he seems to have taken to the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Will Pienaar and Ossy be back for the Hull game? If so i would play something along these lines, If we are comfortable around the last 20 i would put Jo on for Rodwell. ---------------------Howard -------------Distin----------Yobo Neill-----------------------------------Baines -------------------Heitinga ---Osman------------Rodwell-----------Pienaar --------------------Saha -------------------------------Yak Osman is still out and Peanuts has an outside chance but is unlikely to be risked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Don't think Ossie or Peanuts will start considering the length of time they have been out ---------Howard----------- --Neill--Distin---Yobo---Baines ---------Heitinga-------- Goose----Rodwell------Felliani ---------Saha---Yak--------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 ---------Howard----------- --Neill--Distin---Yobo---Baines ---------Heitinga-------- Goose----Rodwell------Felliani ---------Saha---Yak--------- Fellaini suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_clarke Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im going to say this here as i have no idea where else to put it. Does anyone else feel like we could have missed a little trick by missing out on Lorik Cana? ok he started slowly, but my god he would have been an ideal replacement for Carsley. Sunderland got him at a bargain price and he has an engine that has no limits, that guy is a machine and currently i feel that Everton are way too soft in the middle of the park. I wouldnt care too much against the big teams playing a 4-5-1 if there was someone in the middle, that the players can trust will keep big game players quiet. Cana did that against Aresnal, he stopped Fabregas playing (not many can say that). £5m for a quality player and someone who opitimises the 'Everton Way', was lost to a club with seemingly higher ambitions? Cana would have been a great addition and could have been the type of player to help ease our current slump by clearing up all the shite. totally agree with u mate but he doesn't suit moyes' versatile policy as he onlys plays centre mid whilst heitinga plays anywhere this is probably why we didn't sign him (also he's on about £80,000 a week i believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_clarke Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think it is ludicrous to have a pop at Moyse when we have so many players out injured. Its not as if we are missing a couple of squad players either We have been without our best defender, best midfielder and best CF for the entire season then you add our Captain and our only other playmaker to the long term injury list and its not really rocket science as to why we are struggling Any side in the world would struggle with the amount of long term injuries to key players that we have Felli is suspended by the way! i'm sorry mate but i think moyes is due as much critiscism as anyone else in this crisis, i think his tactics and substitutions have been poor this season and some of his signings are not taking the club forward namely fellaini. ok we have key injuries but moyes knew about this before the season started but still never bought a creative replacement for arteta and just decided that he would play long ball until arteta is fit! i've always been a fan of moyes but i'm really starting to doubt whether he has taken us as far as he can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMac Hunt Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Team for Hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Fellaini suspended. Feck. Is Billy back? If not I'm not even sure how we are going to get a team out!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_clarke Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Team for Hull. http://i50.tinypic.com/dxzk9e.jpg why is fellaini left mid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 i'm sorry mate but i think moyes is due as much critiscism as anyone else in this crisis, i think his tactics and substitutions have been poor this season and some of his signings are not taking the club forward namely fellaini. ok we have key injuries but moyes knew about this before the season started but still never bought a creative replacement for arteta and just decided that he would play long ball until arteta is fit! i've always been a fan of moyes but i'm really starting to doubt whether he has taken us as far as he can The time to judge Moyse is when all the players are back and fully fit to do so now is just taking the piss His hands are tied behind his back at the moment,the side is basically picking itself ie any player who is fit starts and with a bench full of kids he doesnt really have any options to change the game In case you were on mars or somewhere equally remote and so didnt realise Moyse had no money to spend in the summer until after the sale of Lescott and personally I think he did remarkably well to bring in the players he did in such a short space of time For people to start turning on Moyse now is completely beyond me and just goes to show how fickle some so called Everton fans are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_clarke Posted November 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The time to judge Moyse is when all the players are back and fully fit to do so now is just taking the piss His hands are tied behind his back at the moment,the side is basically picking itself ie any player who is fit starts and with a bench full of kids he doesnt really have any options to change the game In case you were on mars or somewhere equally remote and so didnt realise Moyse had no money to spend in the summer until after the sale of Lescott and personally I think he did remarkably well to bring in the players he did in such a short space of time For people to start turning on Moyse now is completely beyond me and just goes to show how fickle some so called Everton fans are i understand you defending moyes but all i'm saying is he deserves critiscism too. ok he could only buy when lescott was sold but he should have had those transfers tied up long before selling lescott as thats what happens in football (i.e tapping agents up etc.) at the end of the day we have alot of injuries but the 1st team is much better off than it was in the last 3rd of last season when we had yak, jags, artetA, anichebe, saha out. the only players out of the current injured players who would get in the 1st team are arteta and jagielka anyway and altough they are major players we should be able to defeat wolves,stoke, hull etc without two.not winning in these games has largely in my opinion been down to moyes' tactics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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