Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[vanojoh]

Whatever we think of him, Dynamo Kyiv are bloody terrified of him! Take a look at the English translation of their official website. Presumably that means they'll be going out of their way to stop him. If they decide to double mark him then that will leave spaces for other people - Mirallas, for example.

[MikeO]

Whatever we think of him, Dynamo Kyiv are bloody terrified of him! Take a look at the English translation of their official website. Presumably that means they'll be going out of their way to stop him. If they decide to double mark him then that will leave spaces for other people - Mirallas, for example.

 

If he's fit; and can be arsed. Hope you're right but I have my doubts.

[vanojoh]

I think Mirallas will be arsed for the Europa. It's a glamour tie - he likes those. Unfortunately, you can't just turn it on when you want to, so he'll probably be up for it but perform badly. It's a pity, as an on-form Mirallas would fit perfectly into the counter attacking game we're likely to play. Anyway, if not Mirallas, then someone else is going to have more space if they gang up on Rom.

[MikeO]

I think Mirallas will be arsed for the Europa. It's a glamour tie - he likes those. Unfortunately, you can't just turn it on when you want to, so he'll probably be up for it but perform badly. It's a pity, as an on-form Mirallas would fit perfectly into the counter attacking game we're likely to play. Anyway, if not Mirallas, then someone else is going to have more space if they gang up on Rom.

 

Can't disagree with that.

[Matt]

Exactly that.

 

FFS you lot are going on like he's been playing like this all season!!!

 

Let's get it right, barring the odd game he's been bloody awful. Shall we go through game by game? as it's amazing how much gets forgotten.

 

I'm made up that he is showing signs of progress but ffs he is only just ahead of naismith in the league who hasn't even been used as a striker.

No, he's been average / below average like the rest of the team. The reason you're getting flack now is because you were holding him personally responsible for anything that went wrong, almost vendetta like. Whether you intended that or not, it's how it was perceived and I'm not the only one who's noticed it.

 

Now the lad is showing why we've had faith in him all along, you're just going to have to take some stick and enjoy your humble pie (the second bit I know you've got no problem with, albeit reluctently ).

[Matt]

Agree with Haf on this one.

If we are looking at his progress this season it has been slight ay best.

Games to goals he is behind last season.

 

If he played 120 games in a season and scored 20 would you say that is an improvement?

Depends on what you're expecting as progress. The lad is continuing to finish 90 minutes, in more games, developing his team play, whilst still dragging the team through the competitions with his goals and assists. Has he been as prolific as he was last season? No, but we thats because for 5-6 months we completely changed our approach with him, asking him mature and develop.

 

Martinez took a gamble and tried changing too much, too soon in the first half of the season. But with that gamble, he has laid foundations, and foundations only, for Lukaku to be the complete striker he and his manager think he can be.

 

There are massive strides in his development this year, just not as easy to see as goals scored.

[Hafnia]

No, he's been average / below average like the rest of the team. The reason you're getting flack now is because you were holding him personally responsible for anything that went wrong, almost vendetta like. Whether you intended that or not, it's how it was perceived and I'm not the only one who's noticed it.

 

Now the lad is showing why we've had faith in him all along, you're just going to have to take some stick and enjoy your humble pie (the second bit I know you've got no problem with, albeit reluctently ).

Matt let's get real here, when he's had a good game I say it.

 

He has had some truly friggin appalling games, I mean appalling.

Not average at all.

 

He got dropped for 2 games for an unfit player who had 18 months out. Had a good game then became half parsed again.

 

I sense your excitement at his last 2 games, but let's be honest he's strung more poor games together than good games.

 

I sincerely hope I end up in the vault for lukaku but I'm afraid it's going to take a little more of what we've recently before I start to believe I may have been wrong to say cash in on him.

 

When he's had a game like he did against palace, United, Leicester and several more where he resembled anichebe on a bad day I wasn't on here giving it the post match reaction dramatics as its not the right thing to do. It seems the opposite isn't true. That's fine, my opinion is something that grates on people who were desperate to get him and are therefore desperate to see him do well.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Hafnia

[Romey 1878]

Absolute madness that the tiniest bit of praise for one of our own players has led to this. Again. :I surrender:

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Matt let's get real here, when he's had a good game I say it.

 

He has had some truly friggin appalling games, I mean appalling.

Not average at all.

 

He got dropped for 2 games for an unfit player who had 18 months out. Had a good game then became half parsed again.

 

I sense your excitement at his last 2 games, but let's be honest he's strung more poor games together than good games.

 

I sincerely hope I end up in the vault for lukaku but I'm afraid it's going to take a little more of what we've recently before I start to believe I may have been wrong to say cash in on him.

 

When he's had a game like he did against palace, United, Leicester and several more where he resembled anichebe on a bad day I wasn't on here giving it the post match reaction dramatics as its not the right thing to do. It seems the opposite isn't true. That's fine, my opinion is something that grates on people who were desperate to get him and are therefore desperate to see him do well.

 

 

You should be already IMO

 

You stated categorically at the start of the season that he would not improve and what we saw then was the finished article. Over time you have since back tracked and said it was his touch that would never improve and now you have begrudgingly conceded that it in fact has improved

 

Yes he has had some really poor performances this season but that is a reflection of how the entire team has performed and the style of play and you don't seem to want to acknowledge that. As soon as we started going a bit more direct Lukaku has come to life and started banging the goals in, that's no coincidence

 

The lad is still young and still developing as a player. I can remember Graham Sharp at the same age when he came down from Dumbarton and he didn't have half of the potential Lukaku has and he didn't turn out too badly. He learnt a lot from Andy Gray and his game developed ten fold. I firmly believe Lukaku can do the same from Ferguson

[Hafnia]

 

 

You should be already IMO

 

You stated categorically at the start of the season that he would not improve and what we saw then was the finished article. Over time you have since back tracked and said it was his touch that would never improve and now you have begrudgingly conceded that it in fact has improved

 

Yes he has had some really poor performances this season but that is a reflection of how the entire team has performed and the style of play and you don't seem to want to acknowledge that. As soon as we started going a bit more direct Lukaku has come to life and started banging the goals in, that's no coincidence

 

The lad is still young and still developing as a player. I can remember Graham Sharp at the same age when he came down from Dumbarton and he didn't have half of the potential Lukaku has and he didn't turn out too badly. He learnt a lot from Andy Gray and his game developed ten fold. I firmly believe Lukaku can do the same from Ferguson

 

I stated that he will not improve to the level that he needs to be at in terms of controlling a football - that is not yet mission accomplished by the way, he has shown bits of control that I didn't think he had but I am by no means convined he has rectified this issue.

 

Go back to a few months back, people were on saying his touch has improved like it was some sort of car fault that needed a new part. The following spell of games he had balls bouncing off him left right and centre. It is hit and miss from game to game - and it is.

 

Listen all this excitement suggests that deep down inside many of you were thinking "I think we have bought the wrong player" - why else would there be some much hurrah after a couple of good games??? I've seen Naismith string more better games together than Rom has done recently but its not met with the same hype...

 

There is a long way for the lad to go before we have a potential world class player. He is still extremely one footed, prone to switching off and being lazy, his touch is not reliable, he isn't very good in the air but he can score goals.

 

Lets just not get carried away, the sooner i'm in the vault the better for Everton but lets just temper this hype. I honestly think he could be the difference between winning Europa and getting 10th-12th so I do value what he has on his shoulders. I'm just being realistic.

[vanojoh]

 

 

Martinez took a gamble and tried changing too much, too soon in the first half of the season. But with that gamble, he has laid foundations, and foundations only, for Lukaku to be the complete striker he and his manager think he can be.

 

 

 

Agree with the above, but Hafnia is also right when he says Rom has been "hit and miss from game to game". There was a home game a few months ago - I can't remember which one - when Rom's control and lay-offs were excellent. I thought "Great, he's cracked it!" but next week the ball was ricocheting off him again. Fact is, RM should have been playing 75% to his strengths and 25% to the other parts of his game that need improving. Bizarrely, it was reversed so we seemed to be mainly playing to his weaknesses! In the long run that might be a good thing in terms of improving his all-round game, but it made him look bad in the short term.

 

As we know, strikers have runs, both good and bad. My god, we could really do with the lad going on a good run right now!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

I stated that he will not improve to the level that he needs to be at in terms of controlling a football - that is not yet mission accomplished by the way, he has shown bits of control that I didn't think he had but I am by no means convined he has rectified this issue.

 

Go back to a few months back, people were on saying his touch has improved like it was some sort of car fault that needed a new part. The following spell of games he had balls bouncing off him left right and centre. It is hit and miss from game to game - and it is.

 

Listen all this excitement suggests that deep down inside many of you were thinking "I think we have bought the wrong player" - why else would there be some much hurrah after a couple of good games??? I've seen Naismith string more better games together than Rom has done recently but its not met with the same hype...

 

There is a long way for the lad to go before we have a potential world class player. He is still extremely one footed, prone to switching off and being lazy, his touch is not reliable, he isn't very good in the air but he can score goals.

 

Lets just not get carried away, the sooner i'm in the vault the better for Everton but lets just temper this hype. I honestly think he could be the difference between winning Europa and getting 10th-12th so I do value what he has on his shoulders. I'm just being realistic.

 

I cant speak for everybody else but personally Im so quick to defend him because you are so quick to write him off

[Hafnia]

 

I cant speak for everybody else but personally Im so quick to defend him because you are so quick to write him off

 

Quick to write him off? Personally I was delighted that we got him on loan because of him supposedly being the next big thing and really was impressed with him from Oct-Jan. Teams had no idea on how to play him.

 

It then became quite clear that they knew how to nullify him, mark him tight, don't allow him to face you up and his lack of touch would do the rest.

 

That is not "quick" to write him off - that is giving a player a good chance - then identifying what weaknesses he has and the consequences of these weaknesses.

 

I was far from quick to write him off Dunc, I was just had my eyes wide open and identified traits quite early that became problematic when opponents uitilsed these weaknesses in order to minimise his impact.

 

16 months down the line we are still talking about these traits, albeit in a "lets hope he has managed to improve on them"

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Quick to write him off? Personally I was delighted that we got him on loan because of him supposedly being the next big thing and really was impressed with him from Oct-Jan. Teams had no idea on how to play him.

 

It then became quite clear that they knew how to nullify him, mark him tight, don't allow him to face you up and his lack of touch would do the rest.

 

That is not "quick" to write him off - that is giving a player a good chance - then identifying what weaknesses he has and the consequences of these weaknesses.

 

I was far from quick to write him off Dunc, I was just had my eyes wide open and identified traits quite early that became problematic when opponents uitilsed these weaknesses in order to minimise his impact.

 

16 months down the line we are still talking about these traits, albeit in a "lets hope he has managed to improve on them"

 

 

Yes Haf quick to write him off, he is still a youngster and has plenty of time on his hands to develop his game

[Btay]

Where was Diego Costa ages 21-22? No where near the level he is now.

[Hafnia]

Where was Diego Costa ages 21-22? No where near the level he is now.

 

At around the age that Lukaku was playing first team football for Anderlecht Costa was being coached in football for the first time - he had never played football "for a team" - he was 15 when he had his first coached session. An incredibly late starter - he lived in a remote part of Brazil and only got into a team when he moved to Sao Paulo, but he was naturally gifted, he just had a bit of catching up to do - 6 years I would say.

[Mirallas]

 

 

Yes Haf quick to write him off, he is still a youngster and has plenty of time on his hands to develop his game

 

Haf doesn't even make sense. He's saying Lukaku's passes are intercepted more than those of his teammates... If you actually do the effort to observe Lukaku's passing then you'll notice he does them further up the field where there are usually twice as many opponents defending as there are teammates. Off course they're intercepted more often. On top of that, Lukaku's learnt from his friends Barkley and De Bruyne, so his passes are much more often insightful through balls that are naturally risky, but are often the kind of attacking input this Everton needs. YES Lukaku is a good footballer. Have you seen some of his dribbles btw? He's already one of the best footballers in this team, along with Barkley and Baines. His price tag is no accident and Martinez is no fool.

[Btay]

But he has developed his game through the years 22-24 and gotten better at different aspects of his game. If that makes sense. I genuinely believe Rom will be able to develop his touch, it wont be like that of Berbatov's but it can improve in the next few years.

[Hafnia]

 

Haf doesn't even make sense. He's saying Lukaku's passes are intercepted more than those of his teammates... If you actually do the effort to observe Lukaku's passing then you'll notice he does them further up the field where there are usually twice as many opponents defending as there are teammates. Off course they're intercepted more often. On top of that, Lukaku's learnt from his friends Barkley and De Bruyne, so his passes are much more often insightful through balls that are naturally risky, but are often the kind of attacking input this Everton needs. YES Lukaku is a good footballer. Have you seen some of his dribbles btw? He's already one of the best footballers in this team, along with Barkley and Baines. His price tag is no accident and Martinez is no fool.

 

I don't really think i've discussed Lukakus passes in depth - I'm normally more bothered about him controlling the ball first. He has done some good passes but he's also set up two opponents directly with a poor simple pass.

 

The best "footballers" in the team are:-

 

Stones

Gibson

Osman

Baines

Mirallas

Pienaar (was top 3)

McCarthy

Barkley (should be near top but isn't yet)

 

 

Lukaku is somewhere between Jagielka, Distin, Kone, Coleman and Naismith. - as a "footballer"

[Hafnia]

But he has developed his game through the years 22-24 and gotten better at different aspects of his game. If that makes sense. I genuinely believe Rom will be able to develop his touch, it wont be like that of Berbatov's but it can improve in the next few years.

 

I've said he can maybe get to an adequate level - which all professional footballers should have. I really can't understand players making it with poor control.

 

Costa was always touted as talented but very raw, he was an attacking mid to start with. He was always technically very good as he is a natural player. It was the mantal aspect that has seen him flourish, the same as Henry.

 

Anyway, roll on tomorrow. I'm out.

[Matt]

 

Agree with the above, but Hafnia is also right when he says Rom has been "hit and miss from game to game". There was a home game a few months ago - I can't remember which one - when Rom's control and lay-offs were excellent. I thought "Great, he's cracked it!" but next week the ball was ricocheting off him again. Fact is, RM should have been playing 75% to his strengths and 25% to the other parts of his game that need improving. Bizarrely, it was reversed so we seemed to be mainly playing to his weaknesses! In the long run that might be a good thing in terms of improving his all-round game, but it made him look bad in the short term.

 

As we know, strikers have runs, both good and bad. My god, we could really do with the lad going on a good run right now!

He has been, as has every player in the squad. The rest of the squad, however, weren't written off, ridiculed for poor performances and lambasted because of a hefty price tag. At least, not even close to the same extent.

 

Second part is spot on.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Im sure weve had this argument before somewhere

[Shukes]

To be fair I think this is one of the most informative threads we have.

Some great arguments from both sides and I find it really interesting to see the different views.

This is what forums are for.

[Mirallas]

 

The best "footballers" in the team are:-

 

Stones

Gibson

Osman

Baines

Mirallas

Pienaar (was top 3)

McCarthy

Barkley (should be near top but isn't yet)

 

 

Lukaku is somewhere between Jagielka, Distin, Kone, Coleman and Naismith. - as a "footballer"

 

 

Come on man...

[StevO]

Haf, I've spent the best part of a decade agreeing with you on various things such as Moyes negativity, the shambles of the board and ground moves. Your view on Rom, and your constant grief sent his way, is coming close to personal issues between the two of you.

The lad scores 17 goals, approx 1 in 3, which is the best we have for a long time, and you find reason to belittle half of them as he is an unknown quantity in Europe? The lad plays in the premier league, it's watched world wide, these clubs have endless videos of all of our players. Throw into it that he also played in the World Cup, an unknown quantity he is not. You can't pick and choose your stats, they all count and he's the best we've had probably since the 80's.

 

Despite the good goal return he has this season, I still keep hearing you criticise him but praise Kone, who looks little more than confused when he gets in the box. I don't understand your standards, Roms first touch isn't great, but Kone rounds the keeper then acts like he's trying to play for a corner! I know who I prefer to see lining up, and who I hope we can get shut of come the summer.

 

One day, just one day, you might have to admit to being wrong about him. Most of the rest of us can see that, as can Roberto. come on, he's a good player, forget the price tag, it's gone now,the lad has talent, he's ours,maybe drop the vendetta.

[Hafnia]

Steve, but late for an in depth reply but you critique him as you see fit. He is playing his bestfootball right now that I've seen him play.

 

There is no vendetta, I honestly have not rated him and still have concerns. That is it. I hope he does improve absolutely. I support Everton not my own needs to be right.

 

Kone offers us something totally different to Rom and my support of him is the antithesis... It really does highlight the ridiculous nature of fans who chose not to want him before even kicking a ball and mocking him, but lukaku??? Even when he has a shit game he has excuses laid out for him.

 

The same can be said for naismith, people slate him for the same things that Rom could be slated for but isn't. So one player costing £28m is given carte Blanche and 2 players costing a total of £6m are slated....

 

There is a massive need for people to see Rom succeed, me included as RM really did put all his eggs in one basket. But ffs be a little bit subjective people. If naismith or kone were offside as much as Rom the forum would melt down. Missing 2 sitters from 8 yards??? They would be asked to leave the club.

[Brett Angel]

Kone will never win supporters over. It's the way of football today. He wasn't a big money signing, he came from a championship side and he struggled to play regular football and it feels like he's part of the furniture. If he went on a run of five goals in the next five games people wouldn't give him half of the admiration they would if lukaku did this.

[markiediow]

Wolsburg are reported to want Lukaku for £33m.

 

That is a profit, no matter how he has been this season so that should put the price we paid for him when discussing his performances out of the equation. This proves we have not spent too much on him.

 

I'm not saying we should sell him for that, just that now the price we paid should be forgotten, he's our player and we have not wasted any money.

 

He's no longer a -£28m flop, even if he is poor, he is a +£5m flop (which is good business which ever way you look at it). I doubt any other Everton players will have come out of this season with a higher valuation than the start of the season.

Edited March 19, 2015 by markiediow

[Romey 1878]

Wolsburg are reported to want Lukaku for £33m.

 

That is a profit, no matter how he has been this season so that should put the price we paid for him when discussing his performances out of the equation. This proves we have not spent too much on him.

 

I'm not saying we should sell him for that, just that now the price we paid should be forgotten, he's our player and we have not wasted any money.

 

He's no longer a -£28m flop, even if he is poor, he is a +£5m flop (which is good business which ever way you look at it). I doubt any other Everton players will have come out of this season with a higher valuation than the start of the season.

 

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/wolfsburg/transfer-talk/news/wolfsburg-to-bid-gbp33m-for-lukaku_212143.html

 

Haf's getting the party invitations made right now .

 

Even if it's real I can't see anything coming of it tbh.

[Matt]

Steve, but late for an in depth reply but you critique him as you see fit. He is playing his bestfootball right now that I've seen him play.

 

There is no vendetta, I honestly have not rated him and still have concerns. That is it. I hope he does improve absolutely. I support Everton not my own needs to be right.

 

Kone offers us something totally different to Rom and my support of him is the antithesis... It really does highlight the ridiculous nature of fans who chose not to want him before even kicking a ball and mocking him, but lukaku??? Even when he has a shit game he has excuses laid out for him.

 

The same can be said for naismith, people slate him for the same things that Rom could be slated for but isn't. So one player costing £28m is given carte Blanche and 2 players costing a total of £6m are slated....

 

There is a massive need for people to see Rom succeed, me included as RM really did put all his eggs in one basket. But ffs be a little bit subjective people. If naismith or kone were offside as much as Rom the forum would melt down. Missing 2 sitters from 8 yards??? They would be asked to leave the club.

Dude, you should really look into politics. You'd make a killing...