Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[markjazzbassist]

I'd prefer 4231 and 433 for our formations next year. Both we did well at this year.

[Toffee_in_LA]

I'd prefer 4231 and 433 for our formations next year. Both we did well at this year.

I think we'll use those and the 3-5-2 tbh. RM has shown that he is willing to switch it up to play to our best of our abilities (4-3-3 against Arsenal worked like a peach, 3-5-2 against City... not so much) but with a full preseason, I think they'll be up for it. The only reason I bring up two forwards up top is that if we get a couple of quality strikers (alongside with Naismith who plays best up top), we should be willing to go for it. In reality the 3-5-2 will be like a 5-3-2 defensively like Steve mentioned with Coleman and Baines as the Wingbacks. Should be fun though for sure.

[Romey 1878]

I listened to the Followtonians interview with him (part 2) and he basically said that we'll be trying out different formations next season now that his ideas have had a chance to bed in, and obviously more players will have been brought in by him to suit his ideas.

[Kant]

Atletico want Lukaku.

 

Looks like RM will have to work this summer a little bit more than he expected.

[Hafnia]

I'm hopeful we don't sign him now. Its clear that the money is going to blow a substantial amount of our budget, and taking everything into consideration:- age, goals, stature etc I do not feel that we are yet in the position to spend £20m on potential.

 

Lets look at it another way... if he had the "potential" to be as good as we hope for £20m, Man City would snap him up, Chelsea wouldn't be looking to sell, Barca would look to buy, Milan, PSG etc would be all over it - they aren't though.

 

I think alot of fans want him because "he would sign for us" - and usually we fall short in convincing such targets to sign for us.

 

Its a tricky one...

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I'm hopeful we don't sign him now. Its clear that the money is going to blow a substantial amount of our budget, and taking everything into consideration:- age, goals, stature etc I do not feel that we are yet in the position to spend £20m on potential.

 

Lets look at it another way... if he had the "potential" to be as good as we hope for £20m, Man City would snap him up, Chelsea wouldn't be looking to sell, Barca would look to buy, Milan, PSG etc would be all over it - they aren't though.

 

I think alot of fans want him because "he would sign for us" - and usually we fall short in convincing such targets to sign for us.

 

Its a tricky one...

 

Thats just it though Haf, Chelsea did recognise his potential and they have snapped him up and according to the latest rumours are not trying to sell they are instead trying to extend his contract

 

I agree its a tricky one. I do beleive that he has the potential to be a great striker but that doesnt mean to say he will ever fulfill that potential. But at the end of the day if there were no question marks hanging over him we would not be having this conversation because we would have no chance of signing him

 

I would love to get him back on loan again then go out and spend the cash on Remy

[JoeQuince]

http://instagram.com/p/oGjNp8ntgM/

 

Hopefully their conversation steers towards Rom forcing a move to Everton....

[Mirallas]

Lukaku will be Belgium's undisputed number one striker during the world cup. One might reason that'll make the demand for his services rise up, but Lukaku is a player who's achilles heel has been those key momentw when he's had to deliver. His best games are always internatonal friendlies or the last game of a season that doesn't really matter anymore. Chelsea's penalty shootout against bayern munich in the european supercup is an extreme example.

[holystove]

Lukaku will be Belgium's undisputed number one striker during the world cup. One might reason that'll make the demand for his services rise up, but Lukaku is a player who's achilles heel has been those key momentw when he's had to deliver. His best games are always internatonal friendlies or the last game of a season that doesn't really matter anymore. Chelsea's penalty shootout against bayern munich in the european supercup is an extreme example.

Didn't he score both Belgian goals in Croatia? That was a pretty big game.

 

..I think there's no truth to your statement what so ever.

[jofanon]

Lukaku will be Belgium's undisputed number one striker during the world cup. One might reason that'll make the demand for his services rise up, but Lukaku is a player who's achilles heel has been those key momentw when he's had to deliver. His best games are always internatonal friendlies or the last game of a season that doesn't really matter anymore. Chelsea's penalty shootout against bayern munich in the european supercup is an extreme example.

 

A 20 year old misses a penalty and all of a sudden he's a choker?

[Mirallas]

I stand by my comment.

[Bailey]

I am just catching up with thread and I have dragged few a couple of old posts so ignore me if they have been answered elsewhere (I ,may have skipped a page here or there!)

 

To start with we supplied the ball for him to run on with. For the last 3 months (or 4 weeks after he came back from injury) we have asked him to head the ball or lay it off. He is a finisher, but we asked asked more of him. Which, in principle, I agree with - see my irritation with Yak. But, considering his ability for finding the net, we should be playing to his strengths, which Martinez hasnt done. Having a big man up front (and therefore, considered a striker) to play provider, just doesnt work unless you have a matured, proven, player and for that youre looking of a 25-27 year old / "child" genius.

 

First of all this is shite. Yes Martinez prefers to dominate possession but you simply cant just play the ball for him to run on to in probably 50% of game you play in the league. Against the teams that sit deep there simply isnt that option. I think Rom played as a target man in possibly 2 games, one against West Brom and the other against Utd, other than that he wasnt used as an out ball (other than goal kicks) and it was the tactical set up of the other team which forced him to play with his back to goal and come short where he is certainly at his worst. Unless you force the opposition into a mistake or turn the ball over when they are on the counter you're not going to be able to bring him into the game like you want him too. We played to his strengths as much as the opposition allowed us to not just because Martinez wanted him to do this or that. You also wont find many top strikers across the world who dont initiate a move with their back to goal at some point because its that aspect of dragging a CB out of position that then creates space for him or a team mate to attack.

 

 

It's weird how much "his" opinion coincides with yours.

 

He's been generally portrayed as incredibly hardworking and determined to get better in Belgian media. The type that never goes out partying and eats right and works out every day, etc.

 

I think he wants to be as good as he can. He may look a little laid back but he has the desire to win, just look at the goal he scored on debut. Not exactly the act of a man who just wants to pick up a cheque.

 

My biggest cautionary reason for this is "KENWYNNE JONES" - for some reason in his early 20's every side wanted to sign him because physically he was awesome, he was also compared to Drogba.... what happened? His touch and technique not improving is what happened. Liverpool were linked in a £12m deal for him... oh well.

 

Thats crap Haf. Anyone who compared him to Drogba is a fecking tool to start with. If you cant see that Lukaku has far more ability than Jones then you're in the wrong game!

 

For me here's my alternative striker options and cost expectations:-

 

1. Bony £17m, beast of a man, 6ft and built like a tank, holds the ball up, explosive shot, great work rate, 25 years old, miss him due to ACN but he would get a bag full inb our team.

 

2. Remy - £8m at that price he will go champions league club. Liverpool would be soft not to try for him.

 

3. Batshuayi - £10m, loads of pace, scores goals, less financial risk.

 

4. Gomis - french international, free agent, big wages though...

 

I dont think there will be an awful lot of difference in price between Bony and Lukaku. They paid £12mil only last season and he has scored 16 goals. Swansea will be desperate to keep him, he has time on his contract and Swansea are in a good position financially. You are looking between £20-25mil if you ask me and even at £17mil thats a lot of money for a guy with only one Prem season under his belt. I expect him to kick on again next year too, but its not a given.

 

Its interesting you say less financial risk with Batshuayi because at £10mil and completely unproven at this level that is actually quite high risk. He might go on to be a great player and I cant comment because I havent seen enough of him but £18-20mil who has proven himself roughly as a 1 in 2 striker is less risk if you ask me.

 

I do think though that the worth of Lukaku's signature is all about the price. He is an excellent young striker and he could lead the line for years to come and he will get the job done for 60-75% of the games we play and its likely that the better of opposition we face the better he will be (more space and likely to be able to go forward with the ball rather than back to goal. On the other hand its those 25-30% of games that decide whether you are top 4 or on the fringe just like those tricky Palace, Soton, Villa games and if we are paying £20mil I would like to be able to see a player who can adapt to all of those challenges. It would be ok if we were a Utd or Chelsea and we could afford to have 3 or 4 top class striker we could play horses for courses but we arent and £20mil is a shit load of money to us. We do have Kone/Naismith for those types of games mind you so we do have options but they arent in Lukaku's class. He would be worth £20mil to a lot of clubs but as much as I admire the guy, I dont think he is worth £20mil to us.

[Matt]

Not sure it's shite Bailey, you look at his goals and they are nearly all running scored by him running on to the ball. Can't remember where it's mentioned, but it was stated Martinez changed how he used Lukaku, and became more of a target man. I've only stated the the facts I've found.

[Hafnia]

Simply put, lukaku is a very capable forward who will go on to have a solid career. The physical attributes you hope to turn him into some hybrid of Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer just aren't going to come to fruition. He's average in the air and isn't balanced enough to use his size to a great effect.

 

Give him space to run into and hes great, but many other strikers are.

[MC11]

We need to go all out to sign him. He definately needs good competion though and if that comes in the form of another loanee - so be it.

 

As Bailey says Bony will not be any cheaper. Of course there is other options out there but he's tried and tested in our side and no matter how frustrating he can be he did well.

[Bailey]

Not sure it's shite Bailey, you look at his goals and they are nearly all running scored by him running on to the ball. Can't remember where it's mentioned, but it was stated Martinez changed how he used Lukaku, and became more of a target man. I've only stated the the facts I've found.

 

You show me any strikers goals highlights and they will mostly be running through on goal in some form or another. I dont disagree with the comments about him being better when the game is in front of him but Martinez isnt trying to change how Lukaku plays, he is trying to make him better at dealing with tight defences where there is not much space and where he will spend more time with his back to goal because no matter where he goes, if he wants to be at a top club he will have to learn how to deal with it.

[efc1111]

I think Martinez was playing him with his back to goal at the request of Chelsea, who wanted him to gain experience of playing that way. Read something to that effect a couple of times, anyway.

[Matt]

 

You show me any strikers goals highlights and they will mostly be running through on goal in some form or another. I dont disagree with the comments about him being better when the game is in front of him but Martinez isnt trying to change how Lukaku plays, he is trying to make him better at dealing with tight defences where there is not much space and where he will spend more time with his back to goal because no matter where he goes, if he wants to be at a top club he will have to learn how to deal with it.

fair enough, still not a shite comment though

 

Apologies, apparently lost half of my post for some reason, but I won't bother reposting what was lost

[Aidan]

Simply put, lukaku is a very capable forward who will go on to have a solid career. The physical attributes you hope to turn him into some hybrid of Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer just aren't going to come to fruition. He's average in the air and isn't balanced enough to use his size to a great effect.

 

Give him space to run into and hes great, but many other strikers are.

 

He really dosnt use his strength to advantage does he? It's a shame because he has the physical potential to be one of the best strikers in the world... yet so does anichebe.

[Aidan]

If we sign him for £20m, its safe to say we have a striker with all the potential in the world, the currently ability to bag around 20 goals a season fully fit, and a striker who will spend years and years at Everton, or fullfill his potential and leave for over double what we paid for him.

 

Or flop and we've wasted £20m! But lets face it, he's the striker we've needed since after Yakubu's first season, especially seeing as we're going into Europe, which I believe he would excel in.

[Hafnia]

 

He really dosnt use his strength to advantage does he? It's a shame because he has the physical potential to be one of the best strikers in the world... yet so does anichebe.

 

Lukaku reminds me very much of Peter Crouch in the sense that what should have been a massive attribute has become a massive missed opportunity.

 

Story is Crouch never had to jump as a youngster because he was so much bigger, when he did a small leap would be enough to beat his man. As a result he never maximised the potential that his height gave him.

 

Lukaku was probably the same, physically he probably only needed to use 50% of his strength to shrug players off the ball or stop them getting it off him. He probably never needed to have tight control such was his ability to hold players off.

 

Show me a professional player that was small for their size at a younger age and I will show you a player who makes the most of what they have...

 

Gerrard, Fowler, Messi, Keegan, Shearer, Pele, Maradona, Scholes, the list goes on. The had to squeeze every last cm out of every leap, every ounce of bodyweight in every challenge and as a result became great players in a physical game. For me Lukaku has had it easy for too long.

[bluenosetoffee]

Lukaku is a decent footballer but he does lack some attributes.

 

Pros:

Strong - can hold a ball up and wait for support.

Quick - runs like hell and with his strength defenses struggle.

Finish - his finish is good and he knows where the net is to shoot.

 

Cons:

Passing - the amount of times we were on the counter and he gave it to the opposition.

Touch - when he does get the ball most of the time his touch is terrible it will go 2-3 feet in front of him.

Jumping - for a big fella I don't see him jump much.

[Kant]

Lukaku was probably the same, physically he probably only needed to use 50% of his strength to shrug players off the ball or stop them getting it off him. He probably never needed to have tight control such was his ability to hold players off.

 

I fully agree with you on this. Powerful or pacey players do not get as polished when they are young because they get away with it. Sometimes they even get away with it in the top level when they are young and quick (pacey players mainly).

 

Then they become old and less pacey. At that stage, either they improve or... you have another wasteful Torres, with a poor first touch, giving the ball to the opposition constantly. Most of the times they don't improve (but it's not always the case, I have seen a few of them improve greatly their technical ability, but it's not the most common among pros, I guess it depends on the hunger and workrate of the player. i.e.: Eto'o was raw and technically terrible when he was very young, Ramos has improved is technique up to a good standard).

 

I can't help feeling that if Lukaku develops a decent "power" game, jumping timely and positioning himself accurately in the box, and a decent first touch, he'll become a beast.

Between Kenwyne Jones and Didier Drogba there is a huge leap, though.

[Matt]

just curious, but how much are people willing to spend on the 30% of our goals (including assists) this season that Lukaku achieved?

[Hafnia]

just curious, but how much are people willing to spend on the 30% of our goals (including assists) this season that Lukaku achieved?

 

Interesting way of putting it - but for me I would argue he should have scored more. It's not the games he played well in that concern me, its the ones where he played awful in, there was no indication that the lad has a 7/10 minimum perfromance level, his poor performances where because his touch and passing was pretty much league one level.

 

For me with his attributes - I see him as a James Vaughan type striker - Vaughan had a greater work rate though. I just feel that the money he will cost are for "potential" things that we just arent going to see.

[Aidan]

 

Lukaku reminds me very much of Peter Crouch in the sense that what should have been a massive attribute has become a massive missed opportunity.

 

Story is Crouch never had to jump as a youngster because he was so much bigger, when he did a small leap would be enough to beat his man. As a result he never maximised the potential that his height gave him.

 

Lukaku was probably the same, physically he probably only needed to use 50% of his strength to shrug players off the ball or stop them getting it off him. He probably never needed to have tight control such was his ability to hold players off.

 

Show me a professional player that was small for their size at a younger age and I will show you a player who makes the most of what they have...

 

Gerrard, Fowler, Messi, Keegan, Shearer, Pele, Maradona, Scholes, the list goes on. The had to squeeze every last cm out of every leap, every ounce of bodyweight in every challenge and as a result became great players in a physical game. For me Lukaku has had it easy for too long.

 

Completely agree with you there mate, although I can't believe you didn't include 1 player in that list who should be first i your mind when talking abut squeezing every cm on a leap!!

[Aidan]

 

Interesting way of putting it - but for me I would argue he should have scored more. It's not the games he played well in that concern me, its the ones where he played awful in, there was no indication that the lad has a 7/10 minimum perfromance level, his poor performances where because his touch and passing was pretty much league one level.

 

For me with his attributes - I see him as a James Vaughan type striker - Vaughan had a greater work rate though. I just feel that the money he will cost are for "potential" things that we just arent going to see.

 

He's got a long time to develop, and European football to adapt to with seasons to come at Everton (I'm an optimist )

 

The thing I always noticed with Lukaku is that he could be having the worst game of his career and he'd still pull a goal out of nowhere. Striker's dont have to play well for 90 minutes, they just have to score more than their oppo!

[Matt]

 

Interesting way of putting it - but for me I would argue he should have scored more. It's not the games he played well in that concern me, its the ones where he played awful in, there was no indication that the lad has a 7/10 minimum perfromance level, his poor performances where because his touch and passing was pretty much league one level.

 

For me with his attributes - I see him as a James Vaughan type striker - Vaughan had a greater work rate though. I just feel that the money he will cost are for "potential" things that we just arent going to see.

regardless of his poor performances (I wont go back down that road. You think he cant improve much on footballing basics, I think he can), he is directly responsible for 30% of our goals, despite not playing a full season. So, how to address that?

 

Its a genuine question rather than pushing the Lukaku argument again. If we dont sign him, we need another way of making up those goals and improving on them. Who do we bring in to do that? 3 players at 8m? 2 at 10m each?

[Guest blueboy122]

I feel that a lot of other strikers would have scored the same amount as Lukaku this season for us including Kone. If Lukaku was 28 we wouldn't be having this discussion it's because he's 21 and a lot of fans think he will improve considerably and become a top forward like Drogba. There's no doubt he will improve slightly but I think he is pretty much there in terms of development.

 

Would take him at £10M-12M. But no where near 20-25M.

 

Remy would be such a better option in my opinion.

[Guest blueboy122]

regardless of his poor performances (I wont go back down that road. You think he cant improve much on footballing basics, I think he can), he is directly responsible for 30% of our goals, despite not playing a full season. So, how to address that?

 

Its a genuine question rather than pushing the Lukaku argument again. If we dont sign him, we need another way of making up those goals and improving on them. Who do we bring in to do that? 3 players at 8m? 2 at 10m each?

Definitely Matt. I would take Remy at £8M, Welbeck at £8-10M and a young forward that one that looks like Sturridge Batashuyia for £4-6M

 

We could take those players and I have no doubt that they would get more goals than Lukaku and also I think those forwards would fit better in our system rather than a battering ram like Lukaku. They are dynamic forwards who would give us a lot more options than Lukaku in my opinion and we would have change left over for what we would spend on Lukaku or at least spend equal amounts.