Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[StevO]

just curious, but how much are people willing to spend on the 30% of our goals (including assists) this season that Lukaku achieved?

£23m max. If he scores 20 goals for us next season he would be worth every penny in today's game. Fuck potential, he is a player of proven quality already, and probably the best we can get, if we can get him.

 

regardless of his poor performances (I wont go back down that road. You think he cant improve much on footballing basics, I think he can), he is directly responsible for 30% of our goals, despite not playing a full season. So, how to address that?

 

Its a genuine question rather than pushing the Lukaku argument again. If we dont sign him, we need another way of making up those goals and improving on them. Who do we bring in to do that? 3 players at 8m? 2 at 10m each?

Matt, you appear to be playing moneyball. Like it. Edited May 23, 2014 by StevO

[Hafnia]

Seriously David Luiz, he's like the player who legs it up the pitch abandoning all duties on fifa when you press that button.

 

Would be good in a 3 man defence or as a DM, never worth that money. Clearly he is though, makes you wonder how much a matured John Stones will be.

[StevO]

No, it's not stupid Mike. There is a general culture at Toffeetalk where certain players are being overhyped.

Is the general culture of TT that we all don't rate Lukaku? I think if you just bothered to read this thread you will see plenty of us rate him very highly.

 

To be honest, go into any thread and see us all arguing, how can we possibly have a general culture?

 

It seems you over hype anything Belgian to me, and it seems a few others. I'll throw it out there, I didn't enjoy Brussels, I thought the chocolate was crap, but to keep things even and fair, I love the waffles and the chips and mayo.

Edited May 23, 2014 by StevO

[Steve_E]

Is the general culture of TT that we all don't rate Lukaku? I think if you just bothered to read this thread you will see plenty of us rate him very highly.

 

To be honest, go into any thread and see us all arguing, how can we possibly have a general culture?

 

It seems you over hype anything Belgian to me, and it seems a few others. I'll throw it out there, I didn't enjoy Brussels, I thought the chocolate was crap, but to keep things even and fair, I love the waffles and the chips and mayo.

 

Brussels is beautiful! Belgian chocolate is fine, I don't particularly care for or about Belgian waffles. Chips and mayo are the best thing ever.

[c1982]

Lukaku is brilliant and I'd love him here - his 1st touch is poor but if it was better he probably wouldn't be an option (if he even is now!) I don't think he's worth £20m necessarily but if we somehow signed him for that then I'd be delighted.

[Oztoffee]

Chips and mayo are the best thing ever.

WTF? I know I've been away a long time, but whatever happened to chips and gravy? Even curry sauce isn't so bad, but chips and Mayo?

[MC11]

Lukaku is a big name. He'll retain value. He'll score goals.

 

Easily worth £20m

[Steve_E]

WTF? I know I've been away a long time, but whatever happened to chips and gravy? Even curry sauce isn't so bad, but chips and Mayo?

 

I usually combine mayo and curry sauce actually. You should try it.

[Romey 1878]

Mayo is disgusting stuff.

[Oztoffee]

I found some Heinz Salad Cream in an English shop here a while back. Hadn't had it since Pontius was a pilot. I thought I'd remembered it to be great....big mistake! Must be that your tastes change as you get older.....I still like pear drops and Midget Gems though.

[c1982]

If we're talking sauces then this is the stuff!!!

 

http://www.thecrucialsaucecompany.co.uk

[Aidan]

Seriously David Luiz, he's like the player who legs it up the pitch abandoning all duties on fifa when you press that button.

 

Would be good in a 3 man defence or as a DM, never worth that money. Clearly he is though, makes you wonder how much a matured John Stones will be.

 

 

And a matured John Stones? Nothing, because we dont have a super billionair Russian owner, sadly.

Edited May 24, 2014 by AidanLewis

[Mirallas]

Is the general culture of TT that we all don't rate Lukaku? I think if you just bothered to read this thread you will see plenty of us rate him very highly.

 

 

That is clearly not what I said. Opinions about Lukaku are in balance between positive and negative.

 

As soon as I read better footballer than Barkley I simply stopped reading, absolute bullshit. I know you like go endorse everything Belgian, but give your head a wobble. Lukaku isn't a footballer, he is a sprinter who can kick a ball.

This kind of comments would make me sad if I didn't just dismiss it cause it's total bullshit and probably just meant to offend.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Mirallas

[Mirallas]

 

If anything I think under hype players a lot of the time! You only have to look at this thread. I do get what your saying with Barkley/Lukaku but at the same time I dont agree. Both are important and I wouldnt disagree if you said Lukaku was more important to our season that Barkley was but that was Barkley's first full season of top flight football and he will improve bundles for the experience and when he starts to drop deeper he will have a much greater influence on the team, like he did in some of the games this season.

 

A lot of people on here seem to think that all Lukaku does is score goals and he is a far better all round player than he is given credit for a lot of the time. His link up play is vastly underrated ans so is his movement and tactical awareness. Its not as good as other players in the squad but that too will improve with age but I still do think his move is price dependant.

 

I like this guy, he gets it.

[Hafnia]

Mirallas, no offence but your opinions related to anything Belgian just takes the piss. Laughable really. Your credibility was teetering low, it's gone rock bottom in your last few posts.

[MC11]

Rome Romelu Rome Romelu Rome Romelu, Romelu Lukaku!!

 

Haf never sung?

[Vranny]

I think the best way of saying it is that Rom is £20-25M striker, but not really worth £20M as a striker to us.

 

As a counter attacking forward, who's very lethal when given space, he'll bang in 20+ goals for at least the next 5-7 years for a team matching his style. But with our slow build up, high possession style there are plenty of strikers out there that are much more suited to us than Rom at the moment. Whether they're plausible signings for us is another matter.

 

I'd still be quite keen to get him on a permanent deal, but doubt we'll be able to afford him once the bidding war starts.

[Cornish Steve]

The discussion of who was more valuable this past season is an interesting one. Between Lukaku and Barkley, I would say Lukaku. Even when having a quiet game, he can score. Barkley on an off day doesn't. I realize that scoring goals is only one aspect of the game, but it's a crucial aspect.

 

Barkley has been outstanding sometimes this season, but he's also had some really inconsistent patches. This is, however, his first full season, so he will improve. Over the next ten years, which player has more potential? It's really difficult to say. I'd prefer to keep them both and find out that way.

[Vranny]

The discussion of who was more valuable this past season is an interesting one. Between Lukaku and Barkley, I would say Lukaku. Even when having a quiet game, he can score. Barkley on an off day doesn't. I realize that scoring goals is only one aspect of the game, but it's a crucial aspect.

 

Barkley has been outstanding sometimes this season, but he's also had some really inconsistent patches. This is, however, his first full season, so he will improve. Over the next ten years, which player has more potential? It's really difficult to say. I'd prefer to keep them both and find out that way.

Completely agree. Lukaku was definitely more important this season in my mind, but it was Barkley's first proper season for us in all reality. He should only be getting more consistent from here on in.

 

I'd back Barkley to be the better player over their careers, but that could be my bias talking...

[Mirallas]

 

He finally got himself a wag. Maybe if she's from Liverpool she'll make him stay

[Matt]

£23m max. If he scores 20 goals for us next season he would be worth every penny in today's game. Fuck potential, he is a player of proven quality already, and probably the best we can get, if we can get him.

 

Matt, you appear to be playing moneyball. Like it.

Dont understand the phrase mate

[Mirallas]

Dont understand the phrase mate

[StevO]

Dont understand the phrase mate

Not seen the film or read the book called Moneyball?

 

In stead of buying Lukaku, or any other striker, you buy goals. You lose a 20 goal a season striker you find a way of buying 20 goals. It might be a 15 goal striker and a 6 or 7 goal midfielder.

I think you would like the book.

[Romey 1878]

Not seen the film or read the book called Moneyball?

 

In stead of buying Lukaku, or any other striker, you buy goals. You lose a 20 goal a season striker you find a way of buying 20 goals. It might be a 15 goal striker and a 6 or 7 goal midfielder.

I think you would like the book.

 

The film's great, not read the book.

[zequist]

The essence of Moneyball is about exploiting soft spots in the market - finding players with specific, valuable skills who cost less money because other teams are spending all their money on skills that come at a higher price. A great real-life example is the holding midfielder role - Makelele's skill set was not highly valued by most clubs at the time, certainly not in England and not even by the front office at Real Madrid where he was playing at the time, so Chelsea was able to get him for somewhat less money than his actual talent and value should have demanded (RM prez Florentino Perez infamously said he was an average technique player lacking speed and skill who would not be missed). He still didn't come cheap-cheap at 16 mil, but to put that in perspective Chelsea paid similar or greater prices for Adrian Mutu, Hernan Crespo, Juan Sebastian Veron, and Damian Duff that same summer, most of whom ended up being complete wastes of money for them.

 

The other part of Moneyball is about keeping ahead of the curve, so that when other teams cotton on to your strategy and also start buying in and driving up the cost of the skills you've been targeting, you've already moved ahead to another strategy. Continuing the above example, there's no discount value in targeting the Makelele-type anymore because everybody saw what he could do and wants a player like that now.

 

BTW, the Oakland A's, who codified the Moneyball strategy and also happen to be my lifelong baseball team (been a devoted fan since '83) are sort of the Everton of American baseball - old club with a proud history, popularly perceived by the public and media as a "smaller" club despite winning more championships over the years than all but 2 or 3 other clubs, stuck sharing their local market with a much wealthier and more glamorous neighbor club, stuck in an old, undesirable stadium that limits their revenue potential and been trying and failing to get a new one for years, and develop lots of great young talent that eventually leaves for huge paydays with other clubs that Oakland can't afford.

[Guest Nikica]

The essence of Moneyball is about exploiting soft spots in the market - finding players with specific, valuable skills who cost less money because other teams are spending all their money on skills that come at a higher price. A great real-life example is the holding midfielder role - Makelele's skill set was not highly valued by most clubs at the time, certainly not in England and not even by the front office at Real Madrid where he was playing at the time, so Chelsea was able to get him for somewhat less money than his actual talent and value should have demanded (RM prez Florentino Perez infamously said he was an average technique player lacking speed and skill who would not be missed). He still didn't come cheap-cheap at 16 mil, but to put that in perspective Chelsea paid similar or greater prices for Adrian Mutu, Hernan Crespo, Juan Sebastian Veron, and Damian Duff that same summer, most of whom ended up being complete wastes of money for them.

 

The other part of Moneyball is about keeping ahead of the curve, so that when other teams cotton on to your strategy and also start buying in and driving up the cost of the skills you've been targeting, you've already moved ahead to another strategy. Continuing the above example, there's no discount value in targeting the Makelele-type anymore because everybody saw what he could do and wants a player like that now.

 

BTW, the Oakland A's, who codified the Moneyball strategy and also happen to be my lifelong baseball team (been a devoted fan since '83) are sort of the Everton of American baseball - old club with a proud history, popularly perceived by the public and media as a "smaller" club despite winning more championships over the years than all but 2 or 3 other clubs, stuck sharing their local market with a much wealthier and more glamorous neighbor club, stuck in an old, undesirable stadium that limits their revenue potential and been trying and failing to get a new one for years, and develop lots of great young talent that eventually leaves for huge paydays with other clubs that Oakland can't afford.

 

Good post mate (although the strange thing about RM is that they had and valued the excellent Redondo in the same role a few years prior to Makelele).

 

I have yet to watch Moneyball, as I have no interest in baseball. Is it worth a go anyway?

 

As for the topic under discussion, I do think Lukaku's technique is slightly underrated on here, but saying it's better than Barkley's is way OTT. I have seen him dribble well with the ball though, with both feet. It seems to be his first touch which is more often the problem, and more inconsistent.

[Cake]

Does anyone actually think he wants to stay?

 

I don't think he's bothered either way.

 

He came to us in the last moments of August deadline day, with Foster tweeting it would be good to see him back at WBA by all accounts as a second season there was as good as done. He seemed as surprised as anybody when we nipped in for him, if that's the way it was, and he didn't seem to be clicking his heels, more "looking forward to continuing my development". Continuing his development is where he's still at, for me, so he isn't bothered where that is.

[Lowensda]

Scored a hat trick tonight.

[Romey 1878]

Scored a hat trick tonight.

Add another couple of million on to his fee then. Shit.

[Steve_E]

Add another couple of million on to his fee then. Shit.

 

It was against Luxemburg though.