Bill Kenwright

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/paul-daly-kenwright-time-goodbye/

 

 

An interesting read, personally I think its a bit harsh on BK but its hard to argue with some of the points the writer makes

[Louis]

Not read it yet but it's interesting that the photo shows Philip Carter.. He's 83 and is still active on the board.

[Romey 1878]

Cracking article.

 

Personally, I'd love us to be a club other fans and managers hate - it means you're successful.

[Matt]

sounds like a rant more than an article, the same rant we hear over and over. Not a balanced arguement. I havent got time to explain what i disagree with from that, 5am start agai tomorrow and i still need to pack.

Edited September 7, 2010 by galacticaracnid

[Ian C]

Cracking article.

 

Personally, I'd love us to be a club other fans and managers hate - it means you're successful.

 

I don't know, there's a right and wrong way about it. I'd much prefer to follow the United model than become the next City.

 

Actually if we began behaving like City then I'd honestly question whether I'd want to support Everton.

[Romey 1878]

I don't know, there's a right and wrong way about it. I'd much prefer to follow the United model than become the next City.

 

Actually if we began behaving like City then I'd honestly question whether I'd want to support Everton.

 

 

I don't want us to be hated because we have money, just for being winners. Infact, I don't want us to have a bottomless pit of money, not one bit, just enough to compete.

[marcopaulo]

Cracking article.

 

Personally, I'd love us to be a club other fans and managers hate - it means you're successful.

 

i wouldn't want to try and gain success at the risk of becoming portsmouth...there has to be a happy middle ground though because i was as angry as anyone this season at the lack of transfers etc..i'd love to be hated through success but not hated through the same manner as city

[Romey 1878]

i wouldn't want to try and gain success at the risk of becoming portsmouth...there has to be a happy middle ground though because i was as angry as anyone this season at the lack of transfers etc..i'd love to be hated through success but not hated through the same manner as city

 

 

You were probably typing as I was posting but read my last post.

[MikeO]

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-fans/paul-daly-kenwright-time-goodbye/

I'm sorry but that's just plain pitiful. I read as far as...

 

"Right now, we are a more attractive proposition than Liverpool...."

 

....and then gave up.

 

Before that he had us jealous of Blackburn takeover bid. Really http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11129127 ?

 

He used the "a" word (apologist)....I glaze over when people use that chestnut.

 

And he went all tabloid with the window "slamming" and us "smashing" the top four.

 

Change the record ffs .

[marcopaulo]

You were probably typing as I was posting but read my last post.

 

i was aye

[Bailey]

I agree with where this article is coming from, even though I dont agree with the way he has gone about it.

 

As he says Kenwright rescued the club when we were really in the shit and he has slowly started to run the club properly to a point. We can now compete (albeit largely thanks to Moyes) but if we want to get further than we are now, we clearly need more funds and BK hasnt got that. Im not for one minute saying I want us to have a bottomless pit of cash like the Arabs at City but if we could have a transfer kitty of 8-10mil a season without having to sell then I would be happy.

 

Kenwright has made plenty of mistakes (NTL deal, Kings Dock, Kirkby etc) but he did a lot of good for us. If he leaves now he will be remembered as the person who saved the club but if he lingers on he will be resented and all the good that he did would be forgotten and undone.

[Finn balor]

I agree with where this article is coming from, even though I dont agree with the way he has gone about it.

 

As he says Kenwright rescued the club when we were really in the shit and he has slowly started to run the club properly to a point. We can now compete (albeit largely thanks to Moyes) but if we want to get further than we are now, we clearly need more funds and BK hasnt got that. Im not for one minute saying I want us to have a bottomless pit of cash like the Arabs at City but if we could have a transfer kitty of 8-10mil a season without having to sell then I would be happy.

 

Kenwright has made plenty of mistakes (NTL deal, Kings Dock, Kirkby etc) but he did a lot of good for us. If he leaves now he will be remembered as the person who saved the club but if he lingers on he will be resented and all the good that he did would be forgotten and undone.

Bills going nowhere

[Louis]

Con te partirò

 

I don't think it's as cut and dry as Kenwright resigning from the board and selling up, afterall he owns less than a quarter of the club nor do I blame him for lack of equity investment into the club - he simply doesn't have it to put into the club and he freely admits this. He was part of a consortium that bought 68% of the club for £20m and had to borrow money himself to fund his share.

 

The biggest problem during his reign in my opinion was the money spent on player transfers which was borrowed against future income from the withdrawn NTL deal. That was £20million spent that the club didn't have and the club still hasn't recovered from in terms of money owed to banks. However, arguably the money needed to be spent strengthening the squad to survive in the Premier League in the first place.

 

Some people say that Bill Kenwright rejected an offer from Lord Grantchester.

[Matt]

I don't want us to be hated because we have money, just for being winners. Infact, I don't want us to have a bottomless pit of money, not one bit, just enough to compete.

we dont need it to compete unless were talking the title, which granted we should be talking about! but 1 step at a time. we have a team that can embarrass oppositions (though im not sure where it went over the summer). We finished 3rd in the Jan-May 2010 table, without any money coming in, during which time we took apart the richest, more sucessful teams who had spent way more than us. This is what we are capable of without money but with a good team and board ethic/spirit.

 

i understand the need for money, i would love to see us bring in "top quality" players that cost a fortune but all that is is showing off. DM has shown countless times he can pick up a bargin and these bargins can rip the big egos players apart. Money doesnt guarantee success, it can help for sure, but no guarantee. What it can bring is a Leeds/Portsmouth scenario when the man with the money gets bored. Again not guaranteed but a scary prospect which has happened in recent times.

 

BK is waiting to find a buyer who wont just walk away from us (with their money) if the going gets tough for whatever reason. He deserves a medal for what hes doing and for playing a part in saving us from his predecessors. Or should we just let that kid whos trying to buy Pompey come and bid?

[Romey 1878]

By compete I mean compete for players mate.

 

Yeah Moyes has picked up bargains in the past but the transfer market has gone absolutely bonkers in the past few years. So much so that average Championship players cost £6million. We can't afford prices like that when that's what you pay for an average player. The days are gone when you could pick up a Tim Cahill for £1.75million.

[Matt]

By compete I mean compete for players mate.

 

Yeah Moyes has picked up bargains in the past but the transfer market has gone absolutely bonkers in the past few years. So much so that average Championship players cost £6million. We can't afford prices like that when that's what you pay for an average player. The days are gone when you could pick up a Tim Cahill for £1.75million.

2 years ago we got Peanuts for 2 mill. The same year City bought Jo for 20m, Robhino for 32, and the shite paid for 20m Keane.... The spending has been stupid for longer than people think mate. I hear what youre saying, but those days arent gone. We just got Maggie for buttons and hes impressing already. We got Coleman for buttons, we have youth coming through and a very very good core of expereinced EPL and international players.

 

none of which we wouldve got under Johnson and co. BK deserves credit and a lot less stick.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

we dont need it to compete unless were talking the title, which granted we should be talking about! but 1 step at a time. we have a team that can embarrass oppositions (though im not sure where it went over the summer). We finished 3rd in the Jan-May 2010 table, without any money coming in, during which time we took apart the richest, more sucessful teams who had spent way more than us. This is what we are capable of without money but with a good team and board ethic/spirit.

 

i understand the need for money, i would love to see us bring in "top quality" players that cost a fortune but all that is is showing off. DM has shown countless times he can pick up a bargin and these bargins can rip the big egos players apart. Money doesnt guarantee success, it can help for sure, but no guarantee. What it can bring is a Leeds/Portsmouth scenario when the man with the money gets bored. Again not guaranteed but a scary prospect which has happened in recent times.

 

BK is waiting to find a buyer who wont just walk away from us (with their money) if the going gets tough for whatever reason. He deserves a medal for what hes doing and for playing a part in saving us from his predecessors. Or should we just let that kid whos trying to buy Pompey come and bid?

 

 

Are you sniffing glue?

 

Of course we need money to compete and were not talking about the title either.We need money just to stand still because all the teams around us are investing in thier own squads and are improving all the time. We need to find an investor fast or we will slide back down the table pretty swiftly if we can only spend £1M a year

[Matt]

Are you sniffing glue?

 

Of course we need money to compete and were not talking about the title either.We need money just to stand still because all the teams around us are investing in thier own squads and are improving all the time. We need to find an investor fast or we will slide back down the table pretty swiftly if we can only spend £1M a year

oh lord not this arguement again. Look, teams around us over the past 6-7 years have always spent more. Did they achieve more? Sunderland, Spurs (until last year), Citeh (until last year), Villa etc have spent crazy money in that time yet we have finished above them nearly every year DM has been in charge. in fact, i think only 2 season in 8 we havent been in the top 6, with spending next to no money.

 

Im not saying money wont help (read the rest of my post before you get on your high horse again) im saying we have something more important and that money doesnt equal success, quick money can even bring a downfall. That and that BK and the board deserve a lot of praise rather than stick for getting us into the position were we can complain about competing for the CL rather than surviving another EPL season...

Edited September 7, 2010 by galacticaracnid

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

oh lord not this arguement again. Look, teams around us over the past 6-7 years have always spent more. Did they achieve more? Sunderland, Spurs (until last year), Citeh (until last year), Villa etc have spent crazy money in that time yet we have finished above them nearly every year DM has been in charge. in fact, i think only 2 season in 8 we havent been in the top 6, with spending next to no money.

 

Im not saying money wont help (read the rest of my post before you get on your high horse again) im saying we have something more important and that money doesnt equal success, quick money can even bring a downfall. That and that BK and the board deserve a lot of praise rather than stick for getting us into the position were we can complain about competing for the CL rather than surviving another EPL season...

 

 

I agree with you that BK and Moyes have done a fantastic job turning the club around but to claim that we dont need money is absolutely farcical.

Im not talking plowing in the kind of money that Man City are splashing around, even matching the likes of West Brom and Wigan would be nice!

For your information I did read all of your post before I responded and I chose not to comment on tour riduculous conclusion that signing top quality players for a fortune "was just showing off". I think you are deluding yourself if you think we can carry on without investment.

 

 

What happens next suumer when Piennar leaves for nothing, how do we replace him?

 

If we cant afford to make any signings whilst all the teams around us are bolstering thier squads it doesnt take a genius to work out that we are going to start slipping down the table.

 

If the best we can hope for is to tread water how are we meant to get anywhere? Just hope that all the other teams get worse?

[Matt]

I agree with you that BK and Moyes have done a fantastic job turning the club around but to claim that we dont need money is absolutely farcical.

Im not talking plowing in the kind of money that Man City are splashing around, even matching the likes of West Brom and Wigan would be nice!

For your information I did read all of your post before I responded and I chose not to comment on tour riduculous conclusion that signing top quality players for a fortune "was just showing off". I think you are deluding yourself if you think we can carry on without investment.

 

What happens next suumer when Piennar leaves for nothing, how do we replace him?

 

If we cant afford to make any signings whilst all the teams around us are bolstering thier squads it doesnt take a genius to work out that we are going to start slipping down the table.

 

If the best we can hope for is to tread water how are we meant to get anywhere? Just hope that all the other teams get worse?

Ive tipped Wiga,West Ham and West Brom to go down, no matter how much money they spend they wont achieve anything. But it would be nice to have their money for us.

 

Let me make this more clear then. I mean that the smallest amounts of money can make bigger differences that splashing the cash and showing off. Big-money player doesnt mean world class player (Carrick, JLo, Santa Cruz etc). Romey said the days of picking up a bargin are long gone, but i dont believe that. Pienaar will be an example of that next year when someone picks him up for free and there will be others in the same situation! How will we replace him? No idea, but Maggie looks good on the left for a start and i wouldnt be surprised if we bought him for exactly that reason. On top of that, we have the best in the business for finding diamonds in the rough. They may be harder to find but we have the best people in place to find them. Add to that a strong up and coming youth team to bolster the squad.

 

I apologise if i snapped (im hungry and these spanish eating times are stupid), but its the same arguement ive heard for the last 5 years: "last season was a fluke, we need more money if its going to happen again" or "it wont happen again unless we spend because everyone else is"... Sorry, but after 4 out of 5 years of that being proven wrong, of us competing for Europe, hearing it again pisses me off. We can compete without spending. weve done it repeatedly and we can continue to do so. If we can get going again like we were last season and finish in the top 4, which we are capable of NOW - without spending millions upon millions - then we get into the CL and stay to the group stages, then we win our money. Then we can spend OUR money, not some quick-fix loan sharks money who can destroy us.

 

Im not saying we dont need it completely, didnt mean it to come across that way. We need investment for the club i will concede, new stadium etc. Im focusing more on the claims that we need investment in the team, league finishes etc. Its not the necessity that everyone seems to think for success. It would be great to be able to buy expensive players but at the end of the day, our current squad can win our money. If they get their fingers out anyway....

Edited September 7, 2010 by galacticaracnid

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Ive tipped Wiga,West Ham and West Brom to go down, no matter how much money they spend they wont achieve anything. But it would be nice to have their money for us.

 

Let me make this more clear then. I mean that the smallest amounts of money can make bigger differences that splashing the cash and showing off. Big-money player doesnt mean world class player (Carrick, JLo, Santa Cruz etc). Romey said the days of picking up a bargin are long gone, but i dont believe that. Pienaar will be an example of that next year when someone picks him up for free and there will be others in the same situation! How will we replace him? No idea, but Maggie looks good on the left for a start and i wouldnt be surprised if we bought him for exactly that reason. On top of that, we have the best in the business for finding diamonds in the rough. They may be harder to find but we have the best people in place to find them. Add to that a strong up and coming youth team to bolster the squad.

 

I apologise if i snapped (im hungry and these spanish eating times are stupid), but its the same arguement ive heard for the last 5 years: "last season was a fluke, we need more money if its going to happen again" or "it wont happen again unless we spend because everyone else is"... Sorry, but after 4 out of 5 years of that being proven wrong, of us competing for Europe, hearing it again pisses me off. We can compete without spending. weve done it repeatedly and we can continue to do so. If we can get going again like we were last season and finish in the top 4, which we are capable of NOW - without spending millions upon millions - then we get into the CL and stay to the group stages, then we win our money. Then we can spend OUR money, not some quick-fix loan sharks money who can destroy us.

 

Im not saying we dont need it completely, didnt mean it to come across that way. We need investment for the club i will concede, new stadium etc. Im focusing more on the claims that we need investment in the team, league finishes etc. Its not the necessity that everyone seems to think for success. It would be great to be able to buy expensive players but at the end of the day, our current squad can win our money. If they get their fingers out anyway....

 

 

 

There is one huge big gaping hole in your argument. Evey other season we have spent money even if we have had to sell players to enable us to do so. This summer we have just stood still

I was happy enough to be patient when I could see that we were moving forward, even if it was at a pain stakingly slow pace.

I know the club is skint but is it really too much to ask for as a supposed challenger to the top 4 clubs that we bring in one player a year who can add something to the squad?

[Matt]

There is one huge big gaping hole in your argument. Evey other season we have spent money even if we have had to sell players to enable us to do so. This summer we have just stood still

I was happy enough to be patient when I could see that we were moving forward, even if it was at a pain stakingly slow pace.

I know the club is skint but is it really too much to ask for as a supposed challenger to the top 4 clubs that we bring in one player a year who can add something to the squad?

I think tying down Arteta, Cahill, Baines, Coleman (im sure im missing someone here) to new 5 year contracts counts as spending money, plus signing Maggie and the other 3 freebies who all require wages and id imagine signing on fees. I agree, bringing a player who can make a difference to the squad would be nice, I wouldve loved to have seen the OS announcing a 9m pound signing. Thats big money right? That should bring in a player who can make a difference, right? Made a real difference last year <_<

 

Also not losing ANY key players over the summer is not something we have been able to do in the past several seasons. 1st year weve done that in a loooooong time. So, the squad is bigger but we didnt spend money (well, ok Maggie for 1m), we didnt disrupt the team by selling a key player to raise funds to bring someone else in. We kept a very good team together and added to it. If we get the form back from the back end of last season, and its a big IF at the moment, we will cruise past the big spending City and Spurs. We played some fantastic football against the big clubs with the team we have now. Thats why i say its a nice to have. Weve already proven we can beat the best without investment, without superstar buys. Pretty sure that gaping hole isnt as big as you think...

Edited September 7, 2010 by galacticaracnid

[marcopaulo]

rodwell was the other one dude

[Matt]

rodwell was the other one dude

cheers Marco! dont know how i forgot Jackie!

[Hafnia]

We are a club running on a strict budget, there is no question about that. The potential is massive, and the potential is the following: The manager, the fans (we would fill a 50,000 modern stadium week in/out)the current players (signed by the manager). Our recent league placings considering the lack of spend has shown that we have a manager who is canny in the transfer market. My point is, where does Bill come into all this?

 

Analogy time, yawn...

 

We could be a wonder horse, great genetics, fast as lightening, winning each race by a mile, unfortunately we have a jockey on board who has a tight hold of the reigns and the horse can not run as quick as it wants to and never wins a race, so the punters are getting cheesed off that a horse they back so often is not giving them the returns they expect. The ones who are happy to pick up a few quid from an each way bet are happy, and will argue that the horses getting run too hard are ending up in the yard never to race again.

 

In short, I think people are frustrated that we are 3 players away from a team that could seriously challenge,m to get these players requires money, and that money is not coming from the money men, end of.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think tying down Arteta, Cahill, Baines, Coleman (im sure im missing someone here) to new 5 year contracts counts as spending money, plus signing Maggie and the other 3 freebies who all require wages and id imagine signing on fees. I agree, bringing a player who can make a difference to the squad would be nice, I wouldve loved to have seen the OS announcing a 9m pound signing. Thats big money right? That should bring in a player who can make a difference, right? Made a real difference last year <_<

 

Also not losing ANY key players over the summer is not something we have been able to do in the past several seasons. 1st year weve done that in a loooooong time.So, the squad is bigger but we didnt spend money (well, ok Maggie for 1m), we didnt disrupt the team by selling a key player to raise funds to bring someone else in. We kept a very good team together and added to it. If we get the form back from the back end of last season, and its a big IF at the moment, we will cruise past the big spending City and Spurs. We played some fantastic football against the big clubs with the team we have now. Thats why i say its a nice to have. Weve already proven we can beat the best without investment, without superstar buys. Pretty sure that gaping hole isnt as big as you think...

 

 

We brought in Johnny H last year for £6M and I would say he made a significant contribution

 

The squad is actually smaller

 

in Maggie £1M

Silva £630k

Mucha free

Beckford free

 

out Gosling free

Nash free

Ruddy £540k

Jukebox £540k

Pererlyn free

Turner season long loan

Yobo season long loan

 

So we have spent less than £1M on transfers the squad is smaller and certainly no better than last season, which to me means there is no improvement from last season.

It was clear last year that we desperately needed a RW a decent CF and a back up left back and none of those areas have been dealt with so in my eyes we are treading water and that is why WE NEED MONEY from somewhere.

Yes its great that we have managed to tie those players down to long contracts but can that really be accepted as progress?

 

The only consulation this season is that we have got players back from injury but we will never be a top 4 side without a decent CF and that requires money

[Matt]

weve been a top 4 side with a worse squad on paper than the one we have now. Christ, even Ipswich nearly managed it!

 

Johnny came from the JLo sale (and is one of the best signings i think weve ever made, the man is a machine!), i was actually refering to Bily being the signing that shouldve made an impact and hasnt so far, our 'big' money signing. Theres an example that money doesnt necessarily buy you the best.

 

Nash, Turner, Ruddy, Lukas, Peterlyn... not one played a significant part of the season last year, so i didnt think of them. The reserve squad certainly suffered . When i said we lost noone, i mean noone who counts, makes an impact on the 1st team. You could argue Jobo but it would be a weak arguement.

 

Yes, we need a RW and a striker. Yes we need money to do this. My point is we can earn that money by winning things with our current squad rather than risk investment from some eKid millionaire or dodgy Indian/Chinese investor who can pull all the funds from us and leave us up shit creak without a paddle playing Huddersfield in League One rather than the cups. As soon as Bill does find a buyer worthy of Everton, im sure he will sell. But until them, i trust him to look after us. The side affect is that we work on a shoestring budget again, which the past has proven will not stop us from breaking the top 4. Frustrating as hell, but safer than handing the club over to someone who really doesnt care about it....

[Louis]

Ive tipped Wiga,West Ham and West Brom to go down, no matter how much money they spend they wont achieve anything. But it would be nice to have their money for us.

 

Everton do have the same amount of money coming (more so).. it's just spent on staff wages, and maintaining loans (and aborted stadium moves).

[Matt]

Everton do have the same amount of money coming (more so).. it's just spent on staff wages, and maintaining loans (and aborted stadiums).

and still, despite these clubs spending more, we're the better team.... Just curious Louis, but do you know what the debts of these clubs are compared to ours?

[Bill]

 

The squad is actually smaller

 

in Maggie £1M

Silva £630k

Mucha free

Beckford free

 

out Gosling free

Nash free

Ruddy £540k

Jukebox £540k

Pererlyn free

Turner season long loan

Yobo season long loan

 

 

 

Dont want to get involved in a slanging match and i can see why you say its a smaller squad, but lets have a look at the pro's and cons.

 

Maggie Gueye looks a useful player and may turn out to be a good acquisition, Silva is one for the future, Beckford has already played as many times as Gosling so thats no loss.

 

Nash, Ruddy, Jukebox and Peterlin would not have made any 1st team appearances, so again no loss.

 

Mucha who is a full international, has been brought in to replace Turner who is still our player so again no loss.

 

It was obvious that Yobo had a fall out with Moyes, and also would not make any appearances, but he is still our player, so again its no loss

 

We lost

 

Gosling. free

Nash. free

Ruddy. £540k

Jukebox. £540k

Peterlin. free

 

We gained

 

Silva

Gueye

Mucha

Beckford

 

 

So do we have a smaller Squad ?.... Possibly.

Have we improved the quality of the squad ? ..... I think yes.