MikeO Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Have we have improved the quality in the squad ? ..... I think yes. No question. If we'd got 7/9 points in the bag we wouldn't be having this conversation imo. There was more optimism among the fans at the start of the season than I've seen in twenty-five years. Keep the faith . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 I've heard people say that the squad gets small every year but sometimes the academy graduates are overlooked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 No question. If we'd got 7/9 points in the bag we wouldn't be having this conversation imo. There was more optimism among the fans at the start of the season than I've seen in twenty-five years. Keep the faith . Dam and blast!......I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Dont want to get involved in a slanging match and i can see why you say its a smaller squad, but lets have a look at the pro's and cons. Maggie Gueye looks a useful player and may turn out to be a good acquisition, Silva is one for the future, Beckford has already played as many times as Gosling so thats no loss. Nash, Ruddy, Jukebox and Peterlin would not have made any 1st team appearances, so again no loss. Mucha who is a full international, has been brought in to replace Turner who is still our player so again no loss. It was obvious that Yobo had a fall out with Moyes, and also would not make any appearances, but he is still our player, so again its no loss We lost Gosling. free Nash. free Ruddy. £540k Jukebox. £540k Peterlin. free We gained Silva Gueye Mucha Beckford So do we have a smaller Squad ?.... Possibly. Have we improved the quality of the squad ? ..... I think yes. I was merely pointing out that it was factually incorrect when galactic claimed that we had increased the size of the squad. Silva and Mucha arent going to get near the side, Gueye looks promising but he is nowhere near ready yet and Beckford has looked every bit the League One player so far this season. Fair enough its going to take him time to adjust and he may well make it but at this present moment in time I dont see how these four have improved our squad. I totally agree that its our strongest squad for years but that is more down to having everyone back from injury. We still have exactly the same shortcomings as we had last season What happens if Baines gets a bad injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 What happens if Baines gets a bad injury? We're fucked down both sides of the pitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 There've been some suggestions that we had Michael Ball on trial but his dodgy knee meant he failed a medical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 (edited) I was merely pointing out that it was factually incorrect when galactic claimed that we had increased the size of the squad. Silva and Mucha arent going to get near the side, Gueye looks promising but he is nowhere near ready yet and Beckford has looked every bit the League One player so far this season. Fair enough its going to take him time to adjust and he may well make it but at this present moment in time I dont see how these four have improved our squad. I totally agree that its our strongest squad for years but that is more down to having everyone back from injury. We still have exactly the same shortcomings as we had last season What happens if Baines gets a bad injury? bit pedantic arent ya! we got rid of reserves and brought in an international keeper, a proven goalscorer (though not at this level i will admit) and 2 new youngsters. Ok, they dont immediately affect the 1st team, but apart from Goose, none of the others did either, so its all moot. I will clarify - numbers have decreased slightly, quality has increased a fair bit! Edited September 7, 2010 by galacticaracnid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 There've been some suggestions that we had Michael Ball on trial but his dodgy knee meant he failed a medical. Were we that desperate?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 7, 2010 Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 This was last week. apparently he's packing playing in and will get some coaching badges, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 bit pedantic arent ya! we got rid of reserves and brought in an international keeper, a proven goalscorer (though not at this level i will admit) and 2 new youngsters. Ok, they dont immediately affect the 1st team, but apart from Goose, none of the others did either, so its all moot. I will clarify - numbers have decreased slightly, quality has increased a fair bit! No I dont think it has , thats the point! The way I see it we got rid of reserves and replaced them with more reserves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted September 8, 2010 Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Yawn, here we go again, a few bad results and it's back to the tired old "Kenwright's taken us as far as he can" argument. Let's get one thing straight. The poor start to the season is nothing to do with Kenwright, lack of money or not making any big-name signings over the summer. It's a pattern we've repeated nearly every year under Moyes and one I personally put down to poor preparation on his part. Yes it's frustrating, but come December/January we'll be right back up there competing for the European places and turning over pretty much all comers at Goodison. Let's face it, we absolutely dominated Villa, are side who have in the past few years spent a hell of a lot more than us, it was just one of those days. We all know we'll come good again. What I'd like to know from all the people who are preoccupied with cash and marquee signings is this - do you not think this is the best squad of players we've had in 25 years? As the only honest answer is 'yes', i can't see what more we could ask for. Yes football finance has gone insane, but it is not sustainable. Not everyone can have a super rich benefactor like Chelsea and Man City, the sort of cash they have does buy success but it also distorts everything. Suddenly the kind of investment put into Man Utd and Liverpool looks small fry, the clubs are leveraging huge debts to try to compete with the sheiks and oligarchs and quite frankly risking the long-term stability of the clubs. Any kind of investment bar our own multi-billionaire sugar daddy (unrealistic) would still leave us frustrated at not being able to compete at the top end of the transfer market, and would risk over-strecthing ourselves trying to do. I think we're the envy of lots of clubs in the Prem. Yes we're short of money, but still we're up there competing, we've got a model that works, a talented, youthful squad, and we play good football. So I say well done Kenwright, long may it continue, and I'm sure we'll reap the benefits when others come unstuck chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2010 Yawn, here we go again, a few bad results and it's back to the tired old "Kenwright's taken us as far as he can" argument. Let's get one thing straight. The poor start to the season is nothing to do with Kenwright, lack of money or not making any big-name signings over the summer. It's a pattern we've repeated nearly every year under Moyes and one I personally put down to poor preparation on his part. Yes it's frustrating, but come December/January we'll be right back up there competing for the European places and turning over pretty much all comers at Goodison. Let's face it, we absolutely dominated Villa, are side who have in the past few years spent a hell of a lot more than us, it was just one of those days. We all know we'll come good again. What I'd like to know from all the people who are preoccupied with cash and marquee signings is this - do you not think this is the best squad of players we've had in 25 years? As the only honest answer is 'yes', i can't see what more we could ask for. Yes football finance has gone insane, but it is not sustainable. Not everyone can have a super rich benefactor like Chelsea and Man City, the sort of cash they have does buy success but it also distorts everything. Suddenly the kind of investment put into Man Utd and Liverpool looks small fry, the clubs are leveraging huge debts to try to compete with the sheiks and oligarchs and quite frankly risking the long-term stability of the clubs. Any kind of investment bar our own multi-billionaire sugar daddy (unrealistic) would still leave us frustrated at not being able to compete at the top end of the transfer market, and would risk over-strecthing ourselves trying to do. I think we're the envy of lots of clubs in the Prem. Yes we're short of money, but still we're up there competing, we've got a model that works, a talented, youthful squad, and we play good football. So I say well done Kenwright, long may it continue, and I'm sure we'll reap the benefits when others come unstuck chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Personally Im not asking for a super rich benefactor like City or Chelsea, I just want us to compete with the teams around us/below us and at the moment we cant. If ever there was any doubt that the clud desperately needs a cash injection then look no further than the back page of tonights Echo http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2010/09/08/everton-fc-boss-david-moyes-may-play-tim-cahill-and-marouane-fellaini-up-front-for-manchester-united-game-100252-27223632/ The fact that we are only 3 games in to a new season and already we are even considering having to put square pegs into round holes just isnt good enough. Even my 3 year old daughter could have told you that we were in desperate need of a decent CF last season, Moyse is even on record as admitting we need one, yet we cant afford to bring one in I agree that we shouldnt be putting the clubs future in doubt to try and compete at the top end of the transfer market but we are not even competing in the middle range of the transfer market. For years we have had to sell to buy and under Kenwright that is the only option we have in the future Im a big fan of Kenwright but I honestly do feel that he has taken us as far as he can, thats not having a dig at him he just simply hasnt got the resources to take us any further. I will be eternally grateful for the job he has done but I honestly cant see how he can possibly take the club any further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1315389/Everton-defender-Phil-Neville-insists-chairman-Bill-Kenwright-blame-troubles.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Kenwright's lack of money hasn't helped, that's for sure, but the blame lies with the players and management for our shitty start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Traditionally slow starters? ah that's ok then, we can traditionally finish the season outside the top 4 and traditionally say "what if we weren't so poor at the start of the season - we would be in champs league" Yawn, bored of this. Was captain Phil signed up till he is gone 35 so he can do the media relations? The reality is the gap between top 4 and the rest is closing year on year, Bolton holding Man United, West Ham beating Spurs, West Brom beating Arsenal. Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result. Teams see us as a scalp nowadays and are happy to sit back and steal a goal, what do we do, pack the midfield and end up with a lone striker needing support. The only team we have scored more than 1 goal against at home in the Prem is Man United when we finally threw caution to the wind, the goal we scored in first half was due to them being caught forward trying to score another, something no other team barring Chelsea or Arsenal will do at Goodsion. We need Moyes to be less cautious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 cautious? moyes? never..fuck me, everyone knows that mate the least cautious i've ever seen moyes play is when we once left someone up for a corner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 the least cautious i've ever seen moyes play is when we once left someone up for a corner That's actually happened? Fuck, I'm surprised the papers didn't report that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 it might've been a dream but i'm sure one time saha stayed up? not 100% though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 BK all over the press/net today. Take note the "He only comes out when we're winning, you never hear from him when we're struggling..." brigade. Can't use that old chestnut again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Aye, i was surprised by it tbh. Hopefully something comes of the three potential investors he says he's in talks with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Traditionally slow starters? ah that's ok then, we can traditionally finish the season outside the top 4 and traditionally say "what if we weren't so poor at the start of the season - we would be in champs league" Yawn, bored of this. Was captain Phil signed up till he is gone 35 so he can do the media relations? The reality is the gap between top 4 and the rest is closing year on year, Bolton holding Man United, West Ham beating Spurs, West Brom beating Arsenal. Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result. Teams see us as a scalp nowadays and are happy to sit back and steal a goal, what do we do, pack the midfield and end up with a lone striker needing support. The only team we have scored more than 1 goal against at home in the Prem is Man United when we finally threw caution to the wind, the goal we scored in first half was due to them being caught forward trying to score another, something no other team barring Chelsea or Arsenal will do at Goodsion. We need Moyes to be less cautious... I dont see how a weekend of shock results proves anything to be honest, though I agree having a slow start this season is without excuse. But, dont have a manager who can change things? So the team is as weak as when Smith was in charge? So we regularly fight relegation? Quick changes... ok, will give you that one but having a manager that cant change things is grade A BS. As much as Moyes gets knocked for his tactics, he has proven season after season that he can get the best out of a tiny squad, DESPITE the slow starts, and finish in the top 6. Last season we were unlucky in the 1st half of the season with injuries and sloppy in a few, yes only a few, games in the second half of the season. He should take some blame but the majority lays on the shoulders of the players. As for the goal against Utd, think you'll find we scored our 1st before they did after a good long ball and quick thinking from Ossie. Apologies if this sounds bitchy, in my 1st stages of manflu.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I dont see how a weekend of shock results proves anything to be honest, though I agree having a slow start this season is without excuse. But, dont have a manager who can change things? So the team is as weak as when Smith was in charge? So we regularly fight relegation? Quick changes... ok, will give you that one but having a manager that cant change things is grade A BS. As much as Moyes gets knocked for his tactics, he has proven season after season that he can get the best out of a tiny squad, DESPITE the slow starts, and finish in the top 6. Last season we were unlucky in the 1st half of the season with injuries and sloppy in a few, yes only a few, games in the second half of the season. He should take some blame but the majority lays on the shoulders of the players. As for the goal against Utd, think you'll find we scored our 1st before they did after a good long ball and quick thinking from Ossie. Apologies if this sounds bitchy, in my 1st stages of manflu.... Lol Beat me to it ! I find it incredulous that anybody would accuse Moyse of not having changed things during his tenure. I can only assume that hafnia was born yesterday because to be fair nothing has changed since then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Doesn't Hafnia mean Moyes is unable to change things during a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result. must say if you look at the whole sentence i think romey is right.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Quick changes... ok, will give you that one but having a manager that cant change things is grade A BS. Apologies if this sounds bitchy, in my 1st stages of manflu.... just in case he did make that point, ive covered my ass. But looking at the sentence: "Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result." the OR defines 2 points to me, so im objecting to the first point about him not being able to change things and acknowledged the 2nd point. If ive read it incorrectly, apologies but to me 2 points making clearly different statements... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The reality is the gap between top 4 and the rest is closing year on year, Bolton holding Man United, West Ham beating Spurs, West Brom beating Arsenal. Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result Im with Galactic on this one especially when you read the sentence that preceded the comment about Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 And the winner is...... Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result. Teams see us as a scalp nowadays and are happy to sit back and steal a goal, what do we do, pack the midfield and end up with a lone striker needing support. Yes - I was referring to ingame tactics, the inability to see where things are going wrong quick enough to make changes so that 1. we do not concede (Hibbert vs Malouda - yellow card FA cup) 2. Make attacking changes with enough time to score (numerous times) Quite astonished that some people are so determined to defend his lack of tactical nouse that they would choose to read the response the other way. Not to say that he takes some beating with his pre match tactics either! Playing the likes of Felli and Heitinga advanced of their best position and choosing to ignore the only player who should be started in an advanced position. Yes that man Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I thought it was pretty obvious, but that might have just been my ninja skills coming into play . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/09/27/chairman-on-season-so-far?page=full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 And the winner is...... Truth is we do not have a manager who can change things or find a solution quick enough to influence a result. Teams see us as a scalp nowadays and are happy to sit back and steal a goal, what do we do, pack the midfield and end up with a lone striker needing support. Yes - I was referring to ingame tactics, the inability to see where things are going wrong quick enough to make changes so that 1. we do not concede (Hibbert vs Malouda - yellow card FA cup) 2. Make attacking changes with enough time to score (numerous times) Quite astonished that some people are so determined to defend his lack of tactical nouse that they would choose to read the response the other way. Not to say that he takes some beating with his pre match tactics either! Playing the likes of Felli and Heitinga advanced of their best position and choosing to ignore the only player who should be started in an advanced position. Yes that man Coleman. i agree with your statement about tactics, just not with your english! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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