Wall Writer Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 OS LINK However they may gloss it over, doesn't make for positive reading. Half a million in losses may not seem like much in the overall scheme of things, but for me it says one thing clearly; we don't have two pennies to rub together and any chance of signing Messi are a long way off. Nevermind, we should have enough to secure Hibbo's long term future at the club, that's if he'll take a pay cut of course ;D ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm still waiting for the accounts, that's just a brief summary with a positive spin.. in short "our wage to turnover ratio has increased but that's because we invested heavily in the playing squad". I think, in reality we need to cut our cloth accordingly.. even if it upsets Moyesy. There's a summary in the Echo and it says the debt had increased by £7m and club made £3.1m loss in the year. It also says that debt to wage ratio now at 69%, up from 62%. I don't know how Robert Elstone can describe it as healthy when the last time the club turned a profit was 2005 (Rooney sale). http://www.liverpool...00252-28131863/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellainisHair Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Not great reading though much better than rumours have suggested. Hopefully, more info will appear on the several interested parties from the takeover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Not great reading though much better than rumours have suggested. Yes it is better than the stories doing the rounds but fucked is still fucked boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes it is better than the stories doing the rounds but fucked is still fucked boys. fucked would be adminstration, were not there so were not fucked. It aint pretty and something needs to happen, but lets not overreact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 fucked would be adminstration, were not there so were not fucked. It aint pretty and something needs to happen, but lets not overreact. No, there may be different degrees of fucked, with administration being the most fucked you could be, but not being able to back your manager in a transfer window when he desperately needed to freshen the squad up with at least 1 new face, when you raise £8million from the sale of Bellefield which went toward paying off debts (but the debt still increased by £7million was it?), that's also fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.evertonfc.com/news/speculation Elstones verdict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 All depends when the sale of Bellefield is booked into the accounts - if it was included in this recent release, then it is not looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 All depends when the sale of Bellefield is booked into the accounts - if it was included in this recent release, then it is not looking good. http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news//tm_headline=everton-fc-accounts-reveal-rising-debts-but-club-won-t-sell-star-players%26method=full%26objectid=28131864%26siteid=92534-name_page.html The £8m sale of the Bellefield training ground was used to pay off previous loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzp7zy Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Got to say, despite the gloss that Elstone and Kenwright put on it, these are pretty concerning. If we have one-off sale of Bellefield at £8m to clear down some of the debt but it still increases by £7m that means that we have net £15m increase in debt and no possibility of further investment in the squad without player sales, irrespective of what Elstone claims! Or maybe I just can't do basic sums?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Bellefield was sold in December 2010.. so it's not covered in the 2009/10 accounts. It'll be covered in 2010/11 accounts published a year from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 So back to my boring repetitive question how do stoke/west ham/wolves/wba still have money to invest in new players when we don't. Do they have backers who write the funds off or do they get themselves into debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Bellefield was sold in December 2010.. so it's not covered in the 2009/10 accounts. It'll be covered in 2010/11 accounts published a year from now. Why bother mentioning in an article about these accounts then? Idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 So back to my boring repetitive question how do stoke/west ham/wolves/wba still have money to invest in new players when we don't. Do they have backers who write the funds off or do they get themselves into debt. Run-down of premier league club's financial positions last Feb... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-debt-league-how-much-do-clubs-owe-1912244.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/02/08/everton-fc-accounts-reveal-debts-have-risen-to-45m-92534-28130839/ In December the club sold its former training Bellefield training ground for around £8m, but that cash was swallowed up in paying off existing debts.You're right, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Personally its not as bad as I was expecting. Not many football clubs in the world make a profit before player trading so in that respect we arent doing too badly BUT the big worry signs are that debt has increased quite significantly as well as the wages to turnover ratio. Next year its going to get worse and keep getting worse if we dont either start cutting back on wages (kinda happened with Yak & Pienaar gone) or buck up our ideas and finish higher in the league. Its not all doom and gloom but it isnt good and this years will be much worse. Tbh I wasnt too impressed with the spin Elstone put on it in the echo either. This whole 'I spoke to a couple of fans the other day' screams to me as being political bullshit and trying to show he is one of us, a bit like Cameron in the last election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Debt has increased by £7 million whilst we paid £8 million off on loans from the sale of Bellfield? Doesnt make good reading for next year when we dont have another Bellfield to sell or am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Debt has increased by £7 million whilst we paid £8 million off on loans from the sale of Bellfield? Doesnt make good reading for next year when we dont have another Bellfield to sell or am i missing something? Bellfield will be included in next years accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) The long and short of it is that we are up shit creek but do still have a paddle... just. Edited February 8, 2011 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 The long and short of it is that we are up shit creek but do still have a paddle... just. More like a stick than a paddle lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/fan/article.php?submissionID=17178 Edited February 8, 2011 by Hafnia2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 More like a stick than a paddle lol a match stick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) It's hard to know what to make of this. Compared to some of the financial horror stories in the world of football, you've gotta say we're not being run too bad, from the purely objective point of view that our debt and wage bill are still manageable in comparison to our turnover, even if both have gone up, and if we're not making a profit, the losses aren't anything to worry about. On the other hand, in footballing terms it's clear we're being left behind - we can't leverage any more borrowing to strengthen the squad because our turnover isn't high enough and we haven't got the assets to turn a profit that can be reinvested on the pitch. On purely financial terms, we're a modestly well run average sized football club, and without some huge external investment I can't see any way that will change. Edited February 8, 2011 by nogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Read toffeeweb article above, very well written piece, very scary too. The club can not be sustained in it's current format. Sell to an investor, or run the club on a shoestring less than we already have and hope to avoid relegation - basically tread water. Sell to an investor is the only hope... Edited February 8, 2011 by Hafnia2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/fan/17180.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) http://www.toffeeweb.../fan/17180.html did Hafnia write this? Im not getting into this anymore. Im not great with finances of football clubs, as im pretty sure none of us are. Im going to go ahead and trust the people who make a living doing this as their profession. The same people who have served us well, not perfectly, over the last 10 years. Edited February 8, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Read toffeeweb article above, very well written piece, very scary too. The club can not be sustained in it's current format. Sell to an investor, or run the club on a shoestring less than we already have and hope to avoid relegation - basically tread water. Sell to an investor is the only hope... A bit BK sympathetic for you to add your support I'd have thought Hafnia (or at least certainly a long way from anti) . Thought you'd be slagging him off as an apologist. "What destroys the energy in the club is the weight of unrealistic expectation. If a £50m wage bill plays a £200m wage bill 10 times then I think the smaller bill might win once or twice but also expect to lose six times out of ten. Football is about competing financial resources and it seems to me that Bill Kenwrights only crime is to be too emotionally attached to Everton. The fans constantly demand new signings, retaining the likes of Pienaar (£65,000 a week or £3.3m per year?? madness) and ask where all the money goes..... ....In short, there is no viable alternative to the current business plan. For every Sheikh theres a Mike Ashley and there are rumoured to be over 100 football clubs in Europe seeking wealthy benefactors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 has anyone heard of this: http://www.evertoncashback.co.uk/ poor marketing on behalf of the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Read toffeeweb article above, very well written piece, very scary too. The club can not be sustained in it's current format. Sell to an investor, or run the club on a shoestring less than we already have and hope to avoid relegation - basically tread water. Sell to an investor is the only hope... That end paragraph is the shocker... The problem is that according to that (and factoring in events that have happened since) then without selling players for big money we wont even be able to tread water. The Bellefield sale and possibly the kitbag deal will help that but it wont go all the way. The only other way of us funding new money is through borrowing more and thats a recipe for disaster. I think there are 2 ways we could go. The first is to keeping going the way we are and hoep that someone puts money into the club or, as the article states, we put a cap on the wages and if a player doesnt want to sign then he should be sold on and a cheaper replacement should be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 so just under £45m in debt, last summmer, so eight months later, what state are we really in now? since then we have had three world cup players off the wage bill, i cant imagine us being healthy in the slightest. ive always trusted elstone for some unknown reason, i hope he hasnt become one of bills puppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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