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skane1501

Is Everton Traditionally Catholic Or Protestant?

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Afternoon everyone

Just wanted to find out about the traditional fanbase as an outsider, i like Everton a lot but i can't support them as i have now made my bed so must lay in it and 21 years old, far too late to start supporting new teams but love to see the club do well and would not be disappointed if one day they won the league or FA cup.

I wanted to see if the club is traditionally catholic as i have read and heard from many sources? I am catholic myself so just wanted to confirm this out of interest from some real evertonians

 

Thanks for looking and hope to see some response

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I have a father and a brother who are Liverpoo fans, and myself and two other brothers are Everton fans.

I dont think you can say with any confidence which it is because there are thousands of families who have divided loyalties just like mine. ;)

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I'm a born again athiest/lapsed Pagan but I was briefly a Baptist (because I had the hots for a lass who was one....went to the same church as Cliff Richard but that's another story :P ).

 

But then I'm not from Scouseland so not probably really relevant :unsure: .

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Both clubs originally have ties to Methodism. You can find evidence on both sides for either being 'traditionally' one or the other but the evidence is always tenuous at best.

 

 

There is no Catholic or Protestant split these days between Everton/Liverpool, however. Liverpool has a huge Irish Catholic community and both clubs enjoy support from both denominations. Usually Everton and Liverpool fans would have been friendlier with Celtic than with Rangers though in Everton's case this has ceased to even be a talking point anymore. Liverpool probably have closer ties with Celtic these days owing to them having far more fans than in Ireland (clearly evidenced through their singing of YNWA and the Fields (of Athenry/Anfield Road)).

 

The best argument against any latent sectarian split between Everton and Liverpool is the far clearer and more famous intra-familial split. It's kind of impossible for there to be any sectarian split if support is split within families of the same religion, isn't it? :lol:

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I'm a born again athiest/lapsed Pagan but I was briefly a Baptist (because I had the hots for a lass who was one....went to the same church as Cliff Richard but that's another story :P ).

Ive got to be honest and say im more intrested in what Mike0 is hiding in his past ha! Im not religous in the slightest so would find it hard to comment! So who was this girl then Mike0 haha!

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...So who was this girl then Mike0 haha!

I can't say anything at the mo....but check the NOTW in the near future under the headline...

 

"Cliff Richard in Church hall orgy with seven women and an Evertonian shocker!"

 

I'll be sunning myself in the Caymens with £500,000 in the bank B) .

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I can't say anything at the mo....but check the NOTW in the near future under the headline...

 

"Cliff Richard in Church hall orgy with seven women and an Evertonian shocker!"

 

I'll be sunning myself in the Caymens with £500,000 in the bank B) .

I look forward to reading all the gory details, theres gonna be a few if your getting 500,00 grand mate hahaha

Just a thought mate but you could double DM transfer kitty if you "invest" that money Mike0!!

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Im Evertonian, I am Catholic.

But my Catholic roots come from my mothers side, everyone is Catholic on her side, but the reds and blues are mixed.

My Evertonian roots come from my dads side, where everyone is "one of those" as my late grandma would say, apart from me and my sis.

 

I know catholic and prodestant blues and reds, but most of them dont believe in God.

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Guest millwallforever

I'm Catholic and Evertonian. But to be honest, I couldn't care less about the perceived religious affiliations of my club. Any religious dimension is merely a reflection of the demographics of the area from which any given club hails. Everton had strong Irish connections in the past, but rest assured that there are Catholic Liverpool fans who would argue that Liverpool are the Catholic club of the city. The only English club that I know of with definite Catholic connections are Newcaste United. The Domincan Order was instrumental to the founding of the club and the black and white stripes are the colours of the Dominican Order.

 

 

 

Afternoon everyone
Just wanted to find out about the traditional fanbase as an outsider, i like Everton a lot but i can't support them as i have now made my bed so must lay in it and 21 years old, far too late to start supporting new teams but love to see the club do well and would not be disappointed if one day they won the league or FA cup.
I wanted to see if the club is traditionally catholic as i have read and heard from many sources? I am catholic myself so just wanted to confirm this out of interest from some real evertonians

Thanks for looking and hope to see some response

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Religeon has no place in football. Religeoen isthe scurge of the planet. It breeds hatred and incites war.

 

If I had my way I would ban it and I honestly mean that.

 

I also realise that it cold never happen but it doesn't stop me wishing.

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The origins of EFC and LFC are protestant, if religion is at the base, which it is not. From emerging from St.Domingos Methodist church, when the club became Everton FC, players from all over were accepted, not just those who attended the church. Everton FC represented the district and all in it. Ex EFC chairman Houlding founded LFC. He was a brewer, Tory and an Orangeman. The EFC Committee were largely Liberal minded anti-alcohol Methodists. Religion played no part in the split at EFC which created LFC. It was to do with pure business, who was controlling the club and the form of ownership. Houlding wanted a few people owning most of the shares running the club like any other business, as LFC is run today and unfortunately EFC followed much later. The Liberal committee, with Liberal views, wanted a spread of ownership amongst the fans. The EFC Shareholder's Association was the very first with annual meetings still to this day. When I was a small boy no alcohol was sold at Goodison Park. If anything was underlying there may have been a political chasm, Tory and Liberal.

 

After being named Everton FC, at no time was EFC or LFC their histories, aligned to any religion, neither were the fans. At no time did any club have any solid links with the two bigoted Glasgow clubs.

 

As the Orange Order is present in Liverpool people seem to think the football clubs follow what occurs in Glasgow. They never at any time and still do not.

 

https://localwiki.org/liverpool/History_of_Everton_FC

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With this question people need to distinguish between, Everton the organisation that includes the committee structure, or Evertonians as in the actual fans. For the latter, we have a large fanbases from both.

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Religeon has no place in football. Religeoen isthe scurge of the planet. It breeds hatred and incites war.

 

If I had my way I would ban it and I honestly mean that.

 

I also realise that it cold never happen but it doesn't stop me wishing.

 

When you have a moment, take a look at the 20 worst atrocities in the history of the world. Not one of them was caused by religion - unless you call the atheism of Stalin and Mao or the anti-Semitic Naziism of Hitler a religion. But since when have facts ever determined opinions? :)

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When you have a moment, take a look at the 20 worst atrocities in the history of the world. Not one of them was caused by religion - unless you call the atheism of Stalin and Mao or the anti-Semitic Naziism of Hitler a religion. But since when have facts ever determined opinions? :)

I never said it was the cause of the worst atrocities I said it bred hatred and incited wars.

 

How many wars have happened through religeon. Ethnic cleansing? Muslims slaughtering Christians and vice verca?

 

The Knights Templar?

 

Protestants slaughtering Catholic priests..

 

The list goes on and is endless.

 

I'm not going to get into a debate on religeon but in my eyes religdon is a catalyst to oblivion to everyone.

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I never said it was the cause of the worst atrocities I said it bred hatred and incited wars.

 

As I look around, I see schools called St. Stephen's and St. Andrew's - because churches believed in education and built the first schools. I see hospitals called St. Peter's and St. James' - because churches believed in serving the injured and sick and built the first hospitals. I see orphanages called St. Luke's and leprosy missions overseas called St. Thomas'. I see much of the world's most beautiful paintings and hear most of the world's most beautiful music and, lo and behold, it was funded by churches. Almost all the great scientists of history were funded by the church - including (little known, it seems) the work of Galileo and Copernicus. And, as I mentioned, none of the world's worst atrocities were due to religion.

 

This is why I never understand such statements of animosity against people and institutions of faith.

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Haha, Galileo who was convicted of heresy by the church because he dared to suggest the earth wasn't in fact the centre of the solar system (which didn't fit in to their view and threatened the idea of heaven and hell actually being physical places), and forced to recant under threat of torture?!

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Haha, Galileo who was convicted of heresy by the church because he dared to suggest the earth wasn't in fact the centre of the solar system (which didn't fit in to their view and threatened the idea of heaven and hell actually being physical places), and forced to recant under threat of torture?!

 

Read your history. He was hounded by one group, but he was actually funded by another. It's difficult to understand today just watch a huge paradigm shift in thinking his ideas represented. And, as with any organisation that finds itself powerful, it will sometimes be taken over by politicians hungry for power. Very very sad, but that's life. Still, in my books, the good far far outweighs the bad.

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Without meaning to take this discussion too far off track, I sometimes point out that, over 300 years, the Inquisition murdered on average 3 people per month. During the years of Mao, atheist China murders about 100,000 every month. You never hear these facts in the media because, right now, it's "trendy" to be anti-religious. So be it. The pendulum of opinion swings to and fro.

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And after tonight's result, Alan Pardew may want to call on Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Confucianists, and every other major faith, because he's going to need whatever supernatural power he can get to keep his job at Newcastle! :)

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Well, as you say this (3 year old!) discussion is in danger of going off track, and an Everton forum probably isn't the best place for it, but keeping it short, of course terrible things have been done by atheists, but I think it's fair to say that you'd struggle to point to any atrocities from history committed in the name of atheism. And I think it would also be fair to say that you can't say the same about religion.

 

Also, I have read a lot of history thank you, and that is exactly what happened to Galileo...no real need for condescension there :)

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This myth keeps coming up. It should be buried for ever.

I remember in the mid 70s on gwladys st end the rangers Celtic chant used to start up I hated it then and still do religion and racism should never raise it's head at goodison and in sport world wide.

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As I look around, I see schools called St. Stephen's and St. Andrew's - because churches believed in education and built the first schools. I see hospitals called St. Peter's and St. James' - because churches believed in serving the injured and sick and built the first hospitals. I see orphanages called St. Luke's and leprosy missions overseas called St. Thomas'. I see much of the world's most beautiful paintings and hear most of the world's most beautiful music and, lo and behold, it was funded by churches. Almost all the great scientists of history were funded by the church - including (little known, it seems) the work of Galileo and Copernicus. And, as I mentioned, none of the world's worst atrocities were due to religion.

 

This is why I never understand such statements of animosity against people and institutions of faith.

And I look around and see Catholic priests abusing young boys and the church then covering it up, I look and see old Mes Snith putting money on the collection plte because she's too scared not to incase she goes to hell whilst the Vatican a city in it's own right sits on the biggest wealth imaginable. I see the Catholic church as THE most corrupt organisation on the entire planet.

 

I'm not going to say another word on this, it's an Everton forum not a religeous one.

 

Just to add to this I was raised a catholic but "seen the light " at a very early age (excuse the pun there)

 

Religeon breeds hate it disgusts me in so many ways but I'm not narrow minded enough to not see the good it does. It brings comfort, hope, belief and hospices, hospitals schools etc but it is also responsible for untold misery, death, persecution and a lot of other stuff.

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Just to get back to the original thread. I was brought up a Catholic and it was generally assumed that Everton were a 'Catholic' club. When I went to Goodison in the late 1940's there were a lot of Irish Republic players playing for Everton. There used to be a story (probably apocryphal) that Burnett, one of the goalkeepers, ( along with Ted Sagar,) wore a yellow jersey in a game on St Patrick's day and was roundly booed by the Everton crowd for the whole game! On the other hand, my Dad supported Liverpool.

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As a matter of interest, how did the Protestant-Catholic associations with Rangers and Celtic come into being in the first place? Are there any parallels with Liverpool and Everton? I've not heard of similar associations in other two-team cities: Bristol, Sheffield, Nottingham, etc.

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Guest rusty747

I'm not a scouser so probably not relevant but, here goes,

 

I was christened a Congregationalist

 

Wife number 1 was catholic so I had to sign on the dotted line to get married.

 

Marriage failed and I guess I wasn't really anything at all.

 

Wifenumber 2 was a fierce Northern Irish presbyterian and, once again I had to sign on the dotted line to get married. But that marriage was dissolved and once again I was 'in between' religions.

 

I am now. On wife number three who is Muslim and, yes, I signed on the dotted line once again to marry the woman I still love. She knew nothing about football, when we first met but is now an ardent Bluenose and hardly misses a game on TV.

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I'm not a scouser so probably not relevant but, here goes,

 

I was christened a Congregationalist

 

Wife number 1 was catholic so I had to sign on the dotted line to get married.

 

Marriage failed and I guess I wasn't really anything at all.

 

Wifenumber 2 was a fierce Northern Irish presbyterian and, once again I had to sign on the dotted line to get married. But that marriage was dissolved and once again I was 'in between' religions.

 

I am now. On wife number three who is Muslim and, yes, I signed on the dotted line once again to marry the woman I still love. She knew nothing about football, when we first met but is now an ardent Bluenose and hardly misses a game on TV.

Fucking hell mate, 3 times!! Are you mad??? :P

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Guest rusty747

Never been happier actually Paddock. But after marriage# 2 failed I had vowed never to tie the knot again. But its nearly 10 years of happiness now so I think she's a keeper - no footie pun intended.

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Never been happier actually Paddock. But after marriage# 2 failed I had vowed never to tie the knot again. But its nearly 10 years of happiness now so I think she's a keeper - no footie pun intended.

I was only joking Rusty mate, who am I to jusge you.

 

As long as you're happy matey that's alls it's about.

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Guest rusty747

That's fine mate. No offence taken. A win in Russia followed by another one at OT and the world will be a wonderful place.

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I do not believe it. Yellow jerseys were only for international duties. That is why they all wore green.

 

I'm not sure that was the case in those days. I remember watching Everton playing Grimsby Town and the Grimsby goalie, Tweedy, wore a red jersey. Though, I admit, green was the usual colour.

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I'm not sure that was the case in those days. I remember watching Everton playing Grimsby Town and the Grimsby goalie, Tweedy, wore a red jersey. Though, I admit, green was the usual colour.

 

"Strict rules governed what was and what wasn't permissible in terms of colours and patterns. Goalkeepers in particular, until the rules were relaxed in the 1970s, were limited to green, blue, scarlet and white tops except for international matches, where yellow was the colour of choice. Green proved most popular simply because of the law of averages - very few teams wore green as their first strip. But it wasn't until the turn of the century that goalkeepers began to take on a separate identity. Indeed, prior to the First World War, the only way a goalie was distinguishable from his teammates was by the fact that he wore a cap on his head - although it must be said that in 1909 Scottish goalkeepers were instructed to wear different coloured jersey from the rest of their teammates."

 

http://www.goalkeepersaredifferent.com/keeper/shirtframe.htm

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I'm not a scouser so probably not relevant but, here goes,

 

I was christened a Congregationalist

 

Wife number 1 was catholic so I had to sign on the dotted line to get married.

 

Marriage failed and I guess I wasn't really anything at all.

 

Wifenumber 2 was a fierce Northern Irish presbyterian and, once again I had to sign on the dotted line to get married. But that marriage was dissolved and once again I was 'in between' religions.

 

I am now. On wife number three who is Muslim and, yes, I signed on the dotted line once again to marry the woman I still love. She knew nothing about football, when we first met but is now an ardent Bluenose and hardly misses a game on TV.

 

 

I have been married 55 years this year but still introduce my wife as 'my first wife'. Keeps her on her toes. :rofl:

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Guest rusty747

Good one John. I'll file that away for use in a few years time. Thanks.

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Guest millwallforever

I think all this religious business starts off as banter that might, or might not, turn into serious sectarianism.

 

Such banter is to be encountered in London and Manchester as well:

 

Spurs are viewed as the Jewish club, whereas some among Arsenal's Arab supporters are at pains to paint their club as pro-Arab. A very inaccurate view, considering that a boycott of Arsenal has been advocated by the pro-Palestinian BDS movement.

 

Likewise, some United fans accuse City for living off petrodollars, whereas some City fans claim that United are owned by Jewish capital.

 

Banter like this is actually quite harmless, and when things do get serious it is factors other than football that are to blame. In this regard, the so-called Football War between El Salvador and Honduras serves as a fitting template.

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Does any one remember the popular Everton scarves and hats in the 1980's?

 

They were half Everton and half Celtic? I'm sure I owned a hat like this but can someone confirm I'm not losing my mind?

 

Never really liked it or understood it but these were before the days of internet shopping and my options were limited to buying dodgy snides from outside the away grounds we were playing in London.

 

 

Anyone?

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I think all this religious business starts off as banter that might, or might not, turn into serious sectarianism.

 

Such banter is to be encountered in London and Manchester as well:

 

Spurs are viewed as the Jewish club, whereas some among Arsenal's Arab supporters are at pains to paint their club as pro-Arab. A very inaccurate view, considering that a boycott of Arsenal has been advocated by the pro-Palestinian BDS movement.

 

Likewise, some United fans accuse City for living off petrodollars, whereas some City fans claim that United are owned by Jewish capital.

Most Spurs fans are not Jewish. The owners of Arsenal are mainly Jewish.

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Guest millwallforever

Of Arsenal's two majority shareholders, Kroenke is a Christian and Usmanov a Muslim. It could well be that Kroenke has Jewish ancestry; Usmanov, for his part, is married to a Jewish lady. There seems to be a nice ecumenism of the three Semitic religions in this case; hence no grounds for sectarianism. But that does not stop some supporters from making sectarian points.

 

Given the small number of Jews in he world, it cannot be expected of a club outside Israel to have a majority Jewish following. Personally, I have never met a Spurs fan who was a Jew.

 

 

Most Spurs fans are not Jewish. The owners of Arsenal are mainly Jewish.

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Does any one remember the popular Everton scarves and hats in the 1980's?

 

They were half Everton and half Celtic? I'm sure I owned a hat like this but can someone confirm I'm not losing my mind?

 

Never really liked it or understood it but these were before the days of internet shopping and my options were limited to buying dodgy snides from outside the away grounds we were playing in London.

 

 

Anyone?

Yep, bobble hats, scarves and sunhats.

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I think all this religious business starts off as banter that might, or might not, turn into serious sectarianism.

 

Such banter is to be encountered in London and Manchester as well:

 

Spurs are viewed as the Jewish club, whereas some among Arsenal's Arab supporters are at pains to paint their club as pro-Arab. A very inaccurate view, considering that a boycott of Arsenal has been advocated by the pro-Palestinian BDS movement.

 

Likewise, some United fans accuse City for living off petrodollars, whereas some City fans claim that United are owned by Jewish capital.

 

Banter like this is actually quite harmless, and when things do get serious it is factors other than football that are to blame. In this regard, the so-called Football War between El Salvador and Honduras serves as a fitting template.

Repeating a post I made in another thread a while back.

 

....my father-in-law, an eighty-seven year old Jew who was brought up in North London, is (and always has been) an Arsenal fan. He says that he first went to Spurs but was made very unwelcome and there was a big blackshirt presence at WHL in the pre war days.

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Guest millwallforever

Yes, these have been sung by segments of our supporters. But they have been sung by the Kopites as well.

 

 

Does anyone know if we ever sung versions of the Soldier Song or Boys of the old brigade?

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Yes, these have been sung by segments of our supporters. But they have been sung by the Kopites as well.

 

 

 

Any idea on any of our words to either of them? Roughly when did our versions originate from?

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Guest millwallforever

There is a Soldier's Song version from the 70s, but I have not been able to find the lyrics. Prior to that it was occasionally sung in Gaelic. There was an Everton version of Boys of the Old Brigade on youtube, but it seems to have vanished. It is easy enough to find the lyrics to the Kopite versions of these songs, but you are probably not interested in those. These songs could serve as indicators as to the social fabric of Scouseland; a fitting subject matter for social historians I guess.

 

 

 

Any idea on any of our words to either of them? Roughly when did our versions originate from?

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There is a Soldier's Song version from the 70s, but I have not been able to find the lyrics. Prior to that it was occasionally sung in Gaelic. There was an Everton version of Boys of the Old Brigade on youtube, but it seems to have vanished. It is easy enough to find the lyrics to the Kopite versions of these songs, but you are probably not interested in those. These songs could serve as indicators as to the social fabric of Scouseland; a fitting subject matter for social historians I guess.

 

 

 

Do you know if that was early or late 70s? I know in the 60s to very early 70s there were a few adaptations of the Old Firm songs ie Merry Ploughboy, GOT, Sash, Follow Follow, but they went off the boil a bit when it got serious on the news in the early 70s.

 

Time forgets and the late 70s and 80s saw a revival of interest, the Rangers/Celtic chant come in which was arguably equal in shouts, but the 80s saw a visible shift to Celtic with the bobble hats (arguably this was because Green and Blue stands out more than blue and blue?) but nevertheless Celtic and Everton became the fan association that people made.

 

Celtic fans were noted for coming down to Goodison in the 80s in good numbers (were they regular visitors before?, did Rangers come down too previously?). Good numbers of Celtic also went to Anfield meaning that their fanbase was split Everton/Liverpool.

 

Naturally this interest may have resulted in new songs being adapted to Celtic songs? I know Liverpool's Boys of the Old Brigade was from the 80s (don't know when their Soldier Song was) so maybe ours was then (let us know if you find it on youtube).

 

I know GOT was revived on the terraces in the mid 80s. There was an Everton version of Athenry but I reckon that was more the late 80s, not to be outdone our Everton/Rangers fans showed they were still around by doing one to the Rangers version of Athenry, a Fathers Advice then too.

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Guest millwallforever

Sorry, I don't know exactly when during the 70s these songs were sung; I am merely recounting what I have heard from older Evertonians or read in books. Corbett's semi-official history of Everton steers clear of controversial matters like these, which is not surprising for a sports book. And we all know about the stir caused be Duffy's IRA tweet. Although I find sectarian chants like these silly in general, they are of great interest as social phenomena. Books like following could prove helpful if you wish to explore the rationale behind these songs and chants:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Hurricane-Port-History-Liverpool/dp/1845967267/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412241423&sr=8-1&keywords=liverpool+social+history

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Shelter-Each-Other-Liverpool/dp/0750951028/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1412241487&sr=8-30&keywords=liverpool+social+history

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Militant-Liverpool-A-City-Edge/dp/1846318637/ref=sr_1_53?ie=UTF8&qid=1412241564&sr=8-53&keywords=liverpool+social+history

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sectarian-Violence-Liverpool-Experience-Anglo-Irish/dp/0954501306/ref=sr_1_60?ie=UTF8&qid=1412241688&sr=8-60&keywords=liverpool+social+history

 

 

 

Do you know if that was early or late 70s? I know in the 60s to very early 70s there were a few adaptations of the Old Firm songs ie Merry Ploughboy, GOT, Sash, Follow Follow, but they went off the boil a bit when it got serious on the news in the early 70s.

 

Time forgets and the late 70s and 80s saw a revival of interest, the Rangers/Celtic chant come in which was arguably equal in shouts, but the 80s saw a visible shift to Celtic with the bobble hats (arguably this was because Green and Blue stands out more than blue and blue?) but nevertheless Celtic and Everton became the fan association that people made.

 

Celtic fans were noted for coming down to Goodison in the 80s in good numbers (were they regular visitors before?, did Rangers come down too previously?). Good numbers of Celtic also went to Anfield meaning that their fanbase was split Everton/Liverpool.

 

Naturally this interest may have resulted in new songs being adapted to Celtic songs? I know Liverpool's Boys of the Old Brigade was from the 80s (don't know when their Soldier Song was) so maybe ours was then (let us know if you find it on youtube).

 

I know GOT was revived on the terraces in the mid 80s. There was an Everton version of Athenry but I reckon that was more the late 80s, not to be outdone our Everton/Rangers fans showed they were still around by doing one to the Rangers version of Athenry, a Fathers Advice then too.

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