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duncanmckenzieismagic

Gylfi Sigurðsson

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16 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Just shows you have to watch a player rather than look at the stats. Eriksen is a class above, I'm surprised the elite clubs haven't come in for him yet whereas we'd be lucky to get Sigurdssen off our wage bill. 

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Just shows you have to watch a player rather than look at the stats. Eriksen is a class above, I'm surprised the elite clubs haven't come in for him yet whereas we'd be lucky to get Sigurdssen off our wage bill. 

I agree.  Seen a few spurs games this year  (keeper on my sunday league team is a fan)  and Eriksen's form has taken a slight hit this season.  Especially in the set piece delivery department.  So maybe that explains the stats? but again, I agree. Haha.

Also it is interesting that the article points out that Siggy needs a target. Eriksen has more than triple the assists.  So if Siggy had a better target would he have more? Or is it simply he isn'tt trying to find people? He does seem a bit intent on breaking his record of 11 goals in a season this year.  If he is looking to shoot then who is providing the crucial pass?

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1 minute ago, plaidharper said:

I agree.  Seen a few spurs games this year  (keeper on my sunday league team is a fan)  and Eriksen's form has taken a slight hit this season.  Especially in the set piece delivery department.  So maybe that explains the stats? but again, I agree. Haha.

Also it is interesting that the article points out that Siggy needs a target. Eriksen has more than triple the assists.  So if Siggy had a better target would he have more? Or is it simply he isn'ttt trying to find people? He does seem a bit intent on breaking his record of 11 goals in a season this year.  If he is looking to shoot then who is providing the crucial pass?

From the stats Eriksen gets on the ball twice as much so in theory has twice as much opportunity to find that pass for an assist. But from watching them Eriksen is a lot sharper and tends to be a step ahead of the play whereas Sigurdssen is more reactive to the play. Both have similar pace but it's a lot rarer for people to mention it as a weakness about Eriksen other than to say that's possibly the reason he's not got a big move yet. Whereas people will mention Sigurdssen's lack of pace to be a reason he's struggles up get more involved in games. 

As such Eriksen gets the ball in more space for himself and delivers the dangerous pass faster and with a better delivery (not that Sigurdssen isn'tt too shabby at passing the ball either). Mainly the first two points help him get more assists by giving the potential scorer more space and time to get the goal. 

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

From the stats Eriksen gets on the ball twice as much so in theory has twice as much opportunity to find that pass for an assist. But from watching them Eriksen is a lot sharper and tends to be a step ahead of the play whereas Sigurdssen is more reactive to the play. Both have similar pace but it's a lot rarer for people to mention it as a weakness about Eriksen other than to say that's possibly the reason he's not got a big move yet. Whereas people will mention Sigurdssen's lack of pace to be a reason he's struggles up get more involved in games. 

As such Eriksen gets the ball in more space for himself and delivers the dangerous pass faster and with a better delivery (not that Sigurdssen isn'ttt too shabby at passing the ball either). Mainly the first two points help him get more assists by giving the potential scorer more space and time to get the goal. 

The fact that Eriksen gets on the ball twice as much shows the difference between the two. Technically I dont think there is too much difference but one imposes himself on the game while the other watches it drift by.

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He worked really hard yesterday, I think in a Silva midfield 3 all have to work hard and do their share of the closing down. 

You can see in Gylfi’s game that he is running his bollocks off and not just looking to be the play maker. 

Tbf he always runs his bollocks off. Just that he's that tad too slow to get the ball. 

I was disappointed with him yesterday. That type of game with all that space he should be excelling in. 

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34 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Tbf he always runs his bollocks off. Just that he's that tad too slow to get the ball. 

I was disappointed with him yesterday. That type of game with all that space he should be excelling in. 

It’s strange how we all see things differently, I use to think he didn’t work hard enough under Koeman maybe because of different tactics, I do agree he is not the fastest but Silva has upped his work rate, or it feels that way to me even if he hasn’t. 

It would be interesting to see his stats under Koeman against his stats now. 

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I think if brands was here instead of Walsh at the time I don’t think it would have been a signing he would have made. I like Gilfi but it will be interesting to see what happens with him. He will be thirty soon so will he want another big move while he can? Will brands and Marco be happy to sell him if a buyer come in? 

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53 minutes ago, Palfy said:

It’s strange how we all see things differently, I use to think he didn’t work hard enough under Koeman maybe because of different tactics, I do agree he is not the fastest but Silva has upped his work rate, or it feels that way to me even if he hasn’t. 

It would be interesting to see his stats under Koeman against his stats now. 

It was a surprising stat that he'd covered the most ground in the prem the year before coming to us, but he was still up there under Koeman, not number one but still top 20. Think his work rate is more noticeable now as Silva has him pressing. 

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/meet-premier-leagues-marathon-men-12516993

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34 minutes ago, pete0 said:

It was a surprising stat that he'd covered the most ground in the prem the year before coming to us, but he was still up there under Koeman, not number one but still top 20. Think his work rate is more noticeable now as Silva has him pressing. 

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/meet-premier-leagues-marathon-men-12516993

It’s very surprising I wouldn’t have put a bet on that when Koeman was here.  

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

He’s always been a very hard worker, I just think as his job is to create it goes under the radar when he doesn’t create a lot in a game. 

I do think under other managers his main role was to create, but under Silva the midfielders are expected to share the responsibility more in all facets of the midfield roles which seems to make us work better as a unit. 

Against West Ham he was seen further back then Gomes hunting the ball on many occasions, I’m probably wrong when I say this but it’s like the 3 of them have been told if we are weak in midfield no matter what area you are all responsible.

The midfield dynamics as a team are definitely improving and it is definitely helping us in defence and attack. 

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17 hours ago, Palfy said:

He worked really hard yesterday, I think in a Silva midfield 3 all have to work hard and do their share of the closing down. 

You can see in Gylfi’s game that he is running his bollocks off and not just looking to be the play maker. 

He was my MoTM.  He was everywhere.  He created a lot and was pressing the most of anyone.  He gives it his all.

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

13 goals and 6 assists he led the team in both of those (tied with Richarlison for goals).  Very good season, did a lot of hard work pressing up front too, i'm happy with him.  a couple more years at those levels and the fee will be justified.

Not a bad return and had a decent season. I hope to see more assists from him next season since he's our primary creator behind the striker.

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1 hour ago, sibdane said:

Not a bad return and had a decent season. I hope to see more assists from him next season since he's our primary creator behind the striker.

yeah i think now that the front 4 is more or less settled we could see better interplay between them.  if we get a striker i think he will get more assists feeding said striker.  

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His stats look good but his overall contribution hasn't been enough. Many a game he goes unnoticed unless he scores or assists, but even looking at the games he's scored/assisted in they don't tend to make much difference. 

His goals have only got us wins in three games, Cardiff home and away (we won 3 nil but DCL scored last minute so I'd still credit Gylfi for thst win), and Leicester. The Leicester game being his stand out, but even then it was after they went down to 10 men. Brilliant turn and goal of the season contender in that game but sadly we don't see enough of him taking the game by the scruff of the neck and helping us get a win, he doesn't get on the ball enough. That said I don't blame the player, he's trying to do the role the manager asks but simply isn'tt suited. 

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23 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i think now that the front 4 is more or less settled we could see better interplay between them.  if we get a striker i think he will get more assists feeding said striker.  

We need to bring in some competition for him if Bernard or Vlasic aren't given a chance there. If he goes down injured I can't think of another player who called potentially play his role besides maybe Davies (although less effectively).

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

His stats look good but his overall contribution hasn't been enough. Many a game he goes unnoticed unless he scores or assists, but even looking at the games he's scored/assisted in they don't tend to make much difference. 

His goals have only got us wins in three games, Cardiff home and away (we won 3 nil but DCL scored last minute so I'd still credit Gylfi for thst win), and Leicester. The Leicester game being his stand out, but even then it was after they went down to 10 men. Brilliant turn and goal of the season contender in that game but sadly we don't see enough of him taking the game by the scruff of the neck and helping us get a win, he doesn't get on the ball enough. That said I don't blame the player, he's trying to do the role the manager asks but simply isn'ttt suited. 

Bar the goal of the season acknowledgement, I’m baffled. Deliberately going going against the grain again?

proven many wrong again, thankfully 

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33 minutes ago, Matt said:

Bar the goal of the season acknowledgement, I’m baffled. Deliberately going going against the grain again?

proven many wrong again, thankfully 

Bar the Leicester game I don't think he's had many standout performances. He's professional and runs a lot but he's not effective. 

No idea why you think it's against the grain. Many on here have said similar about Sigurdssen being too quiet and not getting on the ball enough and I'm sure there's people who agree he doesn't suit the system too. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Bar the Leicester game I don't think he's had many standout performances. He's professional and runs a lot but he's not effective. 

No idea why you think it's against the grain. Many on here have said similar about Sigurdssen being too quiet and not getting on the ball enough and I'm sure there's people who agree he doesn't suit the system too. 

Many on here are wrong. He’s done his job. 

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

Many on here are wrong. He’s done his job. 

His job is to help the team win, he never contributed enough to winning. He's only got 6 assists, which might be top at our club but compared to the rest of the league it's not good enough. 37 players in the league got more assists than him. Every club in the league bar Huddersfield, Brighton, Soton and Cardiff have a player more creative. 

That said I don't blame the player. In general the whole team don't create enough and that's on the manager for not playing to his strengths or the squads in general. At Swansea a relegation battling side Sigurdssen managed 26 assists across 3 seasons, yet for us he's got 9 in two seasons. 

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The thing with Siggy is if you’re expecting him to be the main playmaker, always showing for the ball, then you’re going to be disappointed. That’s clearly Gomes’ role in the team. I see Gylfi more as an attacking third based player. He’s there to score goals, press up with DCL and provide the final ball (I honestly think he’d have more assists with a better striker and Walcott not getting so much game time).

While I do wish he’d present to the ball more when we’re struggling to break teams down, he’s certainly done more good than bad. I’d probably rate him as our best attacking player this season. 

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If he'd cost us £25m I'd be ecstatic with him (and that is when we should have stopped the bidding. Thanks, Steve, you dick). But he cost us £50m. And I know it's not his fault, I totally get that, but you expect a game changing player for that sort of money.

I genuinely like him as a player. He works extremely hard for us but we did buy him to create and influence and, for me, he just doesn't do enough.

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10 hours ago, pete0 said:

His job is to help the team win, he never contributed enough to winning. He's only got 6 assists, which might be top at our club but compared to the rest of the league it's not good enough. 37 players in the league got more assists than him. Every club in the league bar Huddersfield, Brighton, Soton and Cardiff have a player more creative. 

That said I don't blame the player. In general the whole team don't create enough and that's on the manager for not playing to his strengths or the squads in general. At Swansea a relegation battling side Sigurdssen managed 26 assists across 3 seasons, yet for us he's got 9 in two seasons. 

Fake news

20 players got more assists than Gylfi’s 6.

Only 6 of those 20 were from clubs that finished lower on the table than Everton.

 

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42 minutes ago, DavisJD said:

Fake news

20 players got more assists than Gylfi’s 6.

Only 6 of those 20 were from clubs that finished lower on the table than Everton.

Narrow it down to just midfielders only nine got more than him.

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1 hour ago, DavisJD said:

Fake news

20 players got more assists than Gylfi’s 6.

Only 6 of those 20 were from clubs that finished lower on the table than Everton.

Not fake news, just an error in counting the players my end, I must have double counted one list when checking late last night. 

As far as I can see only the 4 clubs I named top assister got the same or fewer. Also to call mine fake news and then say 'only six' is laughable. Add the other seven above us and that's the majority of the league. 

Edit: just checked and fantasy.premierleague.com have 38.

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10 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

Stats can be misleading without context.  To some extent I had a similar view to pete0's in regards to Gylfi when he was brought into our team.  I thought he would create more / have more assists and so far he hasn't. He just hasn't.  This expectation of him was all based on his performance on his last season at Swansea where he racked up 9 goals and 13 assists in league play.  Without context you might ask:  "Where are all the assists Iceman?" but if you really look at Swansea that season (which is something I would never do unless in a silly conversation years later on TT) you can find some partial explanations.

1) Gylfi pretty much took every single free kick for Swansea that season
2) Many of Gylfi's assists came from those free kick situations
3) Fernando Llorente put away a surprising 15 goals that season (along with Mawson getting 4 as well) which I am assuming many were headers

It would be safe to assume that most of Gylfi's assists came from free kicks that were headed in.

Now if you look at our squad this year, Gylfi is not always guaranteed to take free kicks.  Additionally, our CF (DCL) only had 6 league goals and our CB (Keane) only had 1 league goal.  Compare that to the same contributors in the Swansea 16/17 squad that is a difference of 12 goals (probably many of which were Gylfi free kick assists).  Lack of free kicks and a target man on the end of them that can convert could alone explain the difference in assists.

So in conclusion:

Did I think Siggy would create more when he first arrived? Yes. Did I think he would have more than 6 assists a season? Yes.

BUT

If we had a CF who was more clinical do I think he would have more assists? Yes. Was this season his highest ever goal tally? Yes.  Do I think this was his best season in a blue shirt? Yes.

We can talk stats and price tags all day long but I am happy with him.  He improved on last season and I see room for further improvement this coming season (more so if the CF situation improves).   It is when there is no improvement or a ceiling is hit that is when I will start to heavily criticize.

 

Excellent post.

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10 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

How many times did he even touch the ball today? 

Unsure, but wouldn't be surprised if he had more touches in the last 5 mins than first 90. Really needed to step up when we were under pressure. 

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7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Just completely pointless having him on the pitch at times. De Bruyne plays a similar role for Man City but he is involved in everything. 

City play a more 4141 compared to our 4411. 

What we ask from Sigurdssen (AM pressing from the front) is probs closest to what Jota does for Wolves (although they play a 3511). Sigurdssen probably has more overall quality than him but I'd swap them in a heartbeat as Jota has the right attributes for the system Silva is trying to implement. 

Potentially even say Liverpool have a similar system with the pressing and wingers but they forfeit the AM altogether to allow for the midfielders to get more possession. 

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56 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Just completely pointless having him on the pitch at times. De Bruyne plays a similar role for Man City but he is involved in everything. 

That is a really good point. He hasn’t done it for me for his price tag. He needs to be dropped. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

City play a more 4141 compared to our 4411. 

What we ask from Sigurdssen (AM pressing from the front) is probs closest to what Jota does for Wolves (although they play a 3511). Sigurdssen probably has more overall quality than him but I'd swap them in a heartbeat as Jota has the right attributes for the system Silva is trying to implement. 

Potentially even say Liverpool have a similar system with the pressing and wingers but they forfeit the AM altogether to allow for the midfielders to get more possession. 

I don't know if you watched the game today but out of possession they played the same 442 shape we do with De Bruyne and Aguero starting to defend from the front. 

The difference is when they attack De Bruyne moves into an inside right channel between the full back and centre back and then Gundogan played from deeper but he was essentially doing the same from the left but more centrally. When Silva came he attacked the left hand channel and KDB dropped deeper to play more how Gundogan played earlier in the game.

I have no problem with how Siggy defends, I think he does it well but he just isn't involved in attack. He plays a lot more centrally, and both he and DCL seem to be playing on the same lines especially with Bernard and Richarlison playing as inside forwards rather than staying wide to create more space. At City you can have 5 men in the front line: 

Sterling - Gundogan - Aguero - KDB - Silva

Then you have Rodri behind and the full backs who overlap depending on the situation. Loads of passing options and very difficult to mark. 

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3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I don't know if you watched the game today but out of possession they played the same 442 shape we do with De Bruyne and Aguero starting to defend from the front. 

The difference is when they attack De Bruyne moves into an inside right channel between the full back and centre back and then Gundogan played from deeper but he was essentially doing the same from the left but more centrally. When Silva came he attacked the left hand channel and KDB dropped deeper to play more how Gundogan played earlier in the game.

I have no problem with how Siggy defends, I think he does it well but he just isn't involved in attack. He plays a lot more centrally, and both he and DCL seem to be playing on the same lines especially with Bernard and Richarlison playing as inside forwards rather than staying wide to create more space. At City you can have 5 men in the front line: 

Sterling - Gundogan - Aguero - KDB - Silva

Then you have Rodri behind and the full backs who overlap depending on the situation. Loads of passing options and very difficult to mark. 

No, only seen the replays of the goals. The handball was very harsh. Gutted to hear Gundogan started, was hoping he'd struggle to get a game with De Bruyne being back and we could swoop in. 

That's in essence what I'm saying with the 4141, they have a flat four midfielders in front of the DM. Whereas we are a flat four with an AM in front 4411. 

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16 hours ago, StevO said:

He was very quiet today. 

You say this like it's something out of the norm. He's quiet 90% of the time. 

It's frustrating because when he does show something you can see the quality he's got, but he's just far too passive and he drifts through games (and seems happy to do it).

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Siggy had 31 touches yesterday.  Thats less than Richarlison who didn't finish the game and it's 15 less than Bernard. I just checked some of the times and 5 of Siggys touches were after 93 mins.

I know the comparison is limited but KDB touched the ball 79 times for City, more than Gundogan and Rodri (the latter was subbed). Thats similar to Bernardo Silva but around 25 more than Sterling. 

The other thing I noted was that DCL had 21 touches yet Kean had 13. 

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Just now, Bailey said:

Siggy had 31 touches yesterday.  Thats less than Richarlison who didn't finish the game and it's 15 less than Bernard. 

I know the comparison is limited but KDB touched the ball 79 times for City, more than Gundogan and Rodri (the latter was subbed). Thats similar to Bernardo Silva but around 25 more than Sterling. 

The other thing I noted was that DCL had 21 touches yet Kean had 13. 

(More to come)

And kdb set up two goals. Gilfi isn’t contributing enough. 

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1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

The other thing I noted was that DCL had 21 touches yet Kean had 13. 

 

That's the difference with good movement and finding space good players which we have will find you, happy days the future could be Kean.

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I hope I don't get shot defending Siggy here.

Its clear he isn't in the game enough and that's partly due to his lack of pace IMO, but mainly to do with the way that we set up. He isn't being implemented as a 'playmaker' and therefore isn't the main focal point of our attack, which is the wings. He struggles to get on the ball because we play so wide. 

He wants to get on the edge of the box in space to look for the long shots when possible, and arrive late the in the area to get on the end of things. 

He doesn't invade space to create for others as much as he looks to invade space to find an opportunity for himself. 

We can't slam him for not getting on the ball enough when the team clearly don't play to get him on the ball at all. 

He is good at what he does and silva seems forced to play him due to the goal threat he offers. Once they dry up, I'd imagine he will be dropped and silva will go to a more flat 3 in midfield. 

By the way, silva has got much more out of Gylfi than any other Everton manager before him has. I doubt anyone would have come in and dropped a player of his calibre, and id imagine the board would have expected a return on their investment in him which would force any managers hand. 

More to the point, if dom isn't scoring someone behind him has to, without Gylfi last season God only knows where we would have finished. 

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9 hours ago, Finn balor said:

And kdb set up two goals. Gilfi isn’t contributing enough. 

Gylfi could have easily had 2 assists yesterday too. Richarlison should have finished both free headers.

I agree, his performance was poor, but I doubt we’d be talking about it had Richarlison done his job and we’d won 3-0.

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18 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Gylfi could have easily had 2 assists yesterday too. Richarlison should have finished both free headers.

I agree, his performance was poor, but I doubt we’d be talking about it had Richarlison done his job and we’d won 3-0.

Even if he does it only masks over the problem. We're not gonna go very far carrying such a luxury. For the most part a striker can get away with scoring goals and not doing much else but a midfielder needs to be getting in the ball more, helping the team more. We were over run in the second half and needed a more intelligent or faster player to ease the pressure on the defense. 

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the ball doesn't go through the middle, we play it out to the flanks and then bring in a cross.  when we play more on the counter we play through the middle and then gylfi is the one threading passes and creating for our attacking players.  it was one game, not a big deal.  

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