Louis Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 1) Are the figures you quoted accurate? Isn't this what a lot of the clubs supporters would wrongly deem 'ambition'? I'm a bit of an old school person, you don't buy anything unless you can pay for it. Simple as that. However, is this not a mistake that the board made and has actually shaped the future financial commitments and strategy of the club? It's clearly, in retrospect, a mistake, but one that is understandable in an attempt to push Everton up the league and one that hasn't been repeated? It was a summary. In 2000, the club's owners' holding company True Blue Holding were close to selling a % to a subsidiary of media company NTL. The club sanctioned spending for player acquisitions, players like Alexandersson, Pistone, Watson and Ferguson were brought in using the club's overdraft. Jeffers and Ball had to be sold as a result in order to appease the banks. By 2002, the club's overdraft with the Co-operative bank was nearing £20million. The club loaned money in a securitisation deal to pay off the overdraft leaving funds for player acquisitions. The loan taken out in 2002 was for £30million spread over 25 years. This loan costs £2.76million a year to maintain. The club's overdraft was being eaten into again, in October 2008, it was reported that Everton paid £1.5m just to maintain the facility. In the latest accounts, the overdraft stands at £5m used after a loan was taken out against future tv revenue. 6) I know nothing about this. Seems strange, but surely there is a valid reason? At the time when the AGM was called in 2007, there were only two directors, Robert Earl and Jon Woods after Keith Wyness, the club CEO and director resigned for unknown reasons, although reason enough for The Guardian to report that Robert Earl sailed to Majorca with Philip Green on his personal yacht to meet with Wyness! There needed to be three for the club to hold an AGM so they re-appointed Sir Philip Carter who had previously retired in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Bailey - did you see that post on ToffeeWeb lately? http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/10-11/comment/fan/18016.html The Park End was under Peter Johnson (and Philip Carter ) so I didn't include it. King's Dock; Paul Gregg and Bill Kenwright fell out over funding of it didn't they? It was initially meant to be £30m but rising costs saw the project die with the board members unable to agree on sourcing methods. I remember Paul Gregg offered to pay the money and charge the club repayments but Bill Kenwright didn't like that proposal. I forgot all about the Fortress Sports Fund, there has never been an update from the club about it. In the end they invested in a dog food company in Ukraine or somewhere in Eastern Europe. They served their purpose anyway, they saw off Paul Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/07/08/david-prentice-why-there-is-no-need-for-an-everton-fc-revolution-100252-29016160/2/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom Echo's sports editor David Prentice gives his thoughts.. he mentions buying True Blue Holdings' shares, but TBH was dissolved in 2004! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 David Prentice in response to his article's comments. THANK you for the interest in today's column - you can read it by clicking here - I'll try to answer one or two of the comments on here. Bill Kenwright must go. Easy, isn't it? But then who comes in? Where are the interested parties willing to buy Kenwright's shares? Who takes over from the regime which has elevated Everton from regular relegation scufflers in the late 90s to regular sixth, seventh and eighth placed finishers now? The article certainly wasn't an attempt at bridge building with the club. We try to have as healthy a relationship with Everton as possible, but the days when I would visit Bellefield every morning as Everton correspondent have long since passed. We wrote a series of articles on Everton's finances in February - you can read two of those articles here and here - and were heavily criticised by the club for scaremongering, and criticised by some fans for not going far enough. We were happy with that outcome because it suggested a balance had been struck. The truth of the matter is - and I can say this absolutely hand on heart - that I care about Everton Football Club as much as anyone who has posted on here today. And I have absolutely no compunction about upsetting Bill Kenwright, the board or the players, as previous articles will attest to. But I cannot see the benefit - for club or newspaper - of starting or even supporting a Kenwright Must Go campaign in July, before a ball has been kicked in anger, when there is no viable alternative. The column wasn't intended to be sycophantically supportive of the current regime, as so many of you have concluded, but a counter to the air of pessimism which dominates some websites. We have asked questions of the board many times in the past and will continue to do so again. I have asked in our pages in the past why the current board hasn't appointed an independent broker to oversee a sale of the club. I can't keep repeating myself. What I was trying to do in today's column was to point out that there is an alternative to the doom and gloom which seems to pervade some Evertonians' thinking - in July before a ball has even been kicked pre-season. I understand why Blues are concerned. It's immensely frustrating for Evertonians to see their team struggle to raise funds to sign players while across the park Liverpool are collecting central midfielders. But having witnessed first hand the mess that was generated when a previous Everton chairman sanctioned the spending of funds that the club didn't have, I will not be part of a similar scenario unfolding again. I'm as frustrated as any fan at not seeing new faces arrive this summer. (But I've also seen it before - when the club couldn't afford to make Terry Curran's loan move permanent in 1983). And that situation can change very quickly. Forgive me if I've misjudged the tone of today's article, but I was trying to offer some positivity at a time when there is very little amongst some Evertonians. Comparisons have been drawn to the piece Chris Bascombe wrote for the News of the World website, hailing that as a blow for the 'people'. But the truth is that Chris ended that article with the same conclusion I drew. There are no answers until someone shows an interest in buying Everton from the current regime. Until that situation changes I can see no benefit for Everton Football Club in whipping up or adding to a mood of unrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Was what he was responding to ever published in the Echo? I don't buy it, so don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Bill Kenwright must go. Easy, isn't it? But then who comes in? Ask any 'the board and Bill must go and go now' person this question above and you it will be met with blank, clueless and gormless faces. If there were plenty of solid options for people to come in and take over the club, i'd be inclined to join the Bill must go brigade, but if that were the case, i think Bill would join too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Bill Kenwright must go. Easy, isn't it? But then who comes in? Ask any 'the board and Bill must go and go now' person this question above and you it will be met with blank, clueless and gormless faces. If there were plenty of solid options for people to come in and take over the club, i'd be inclined to join the Bill must go brigade, but if that were the case, i think Bill would join too. I think the reason for that is I've just spent the last 5 days earning money doing what I'm paid to do. I'm sure if it was my area of expertise that I was paid to do then I would have plenty of knowledge on the matter. Why is it that fans on the street are meant to have in depth knowledge on the potential replacements for bill and co? Do we just go through Forbes magazine? Or Is there a scouting database ala football manager where you can pick an ideal candidate based on the following : liquid assets, ships owned, tendency to lie, true love of football? Do we get to pick who replaces anichebe? Or is it enough that the fans recognise he can't take us where we need to be and rely on the highly paid 'experts' to select his replacement? Is it us who needs to suggest a new site for a stadium? Is it us who decide on a new system that ensures more pies and pints can be served at half time? No it's not enough that we turn up in thousands and hand money over to the club, we need to challenge the problems and suggest the solutions?! Edited July 8, 2011 by Hafnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 when they don't trust that kenwright isn't looking for a new buyer i think they should then put up some suitable candidates to ask the question why hasn't bill gone to him etc..that's the way i see it anyways..not sayin all the kill bill squad are the same but i think a lot go with the crowd out of frustration..i'm more behind bill than against(although on the fence more as of later) but the main reason i am is because i feel he is doin what he can and won't sell us to a complete moron..also because i can't think of anyone other than paul mccartney and that wouldn't ever happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I think the reason for that is I've just spent the last 5 days earning money doing what I'm paid to do. I'm sure if it was my area of expertise that I was paid to do then I would have plenty of knowledge on the matter. Why is it that fans on the street are meant to have in depth knowledge on the potential replacements for bill and co? Do we just go through Forbes magazine? Or Is there a scouting database ala football manager where you can pick an ideal candidate based on the following : liquid assets, ships owned, tendency to lie, true love of football? Do we get to pick who replaces anichebe? Or is it enough that the fans recognise he can't take us where we need to be and rely on the highly paid 'experts' to select his replacement? Is it us who needs to suggest a new site for a stadium? Is it us who decide on a new system that ensures more pies and pints can be served at half time? No it's not enough that we turn up in thousands and hand money over to the club, we need to challenge the problems and suggest the solutions?! Why is it that the fans on the street consider themselves informed enough to hang Bill out to dry, but yet not informed enough to consider a viable replacement? I always find it beyond ignorant when people shout for change, but have no idea what that change is or in what form it will take. There is no credible, vastly wealthy person(s) interested in buying Everton. If anyone believes otherwise, they are completely deluded. If anyone also thinks that BK wouldn't sell the club to a credible and vastly wealthy person, then they are also completely deluded. You can gather all the highly paid experts in the world to search for a buyer, if no one wants to buy what can they do? Everton have no money. What exactly would you like to see happen to generate enough funds for a new stadium? Oh and by the way, i really didn't get your Anichebe comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 when they don't trust that kenwright isn't looking for a new buyer i think they should then put up some suitable candidates to ask the question why hasn't bill gone to him etc..that's the way i see it anyways..not sayin all the kill bill squad are the same but i think a lot go with the crowd out of frustration..i'm more behind bill than against(although on the fence more as of later) but the main reason i am is because i feel he is doin what he can and won't sell us to a complete moron..also because i can't think of anyone other than paul mccartney and that wouldn't ever happen Is that simply picking out some people from a list of the worlds billionaires and getting down on our knees and asking them to waste £500 million on a football team they have probably never heard of with no chance of a return? Lord Granchester is the obvious candidate, but if he wanted to put money into Everton, he'd have done it a long time ago. I concur completely with your stance on Kenwright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Why is it that the fans on the street consider themselves informed enough to hang Bill out to dry, but yet not informed enough to consider a viable replacement? I always find it beyond ignorant when people shout for change, but have no idea what that change is or in what form it will take. There is no credible, vastly wealthy person(s) interested in buying Everton. If anyone believes otherwise, they are completely deluded. If anyone also thinks that BK wouldn't sell the club to a credible and vastly wealthy person, then they are also completely deluded. You can gather all the highly paid experts in the world to search for a buyer, if no one wants to buy what can they do? Everton have no money. What exactly would you like to see happen to generate enough funds for a new stadium? Oh and by the way, i really didn't get your Anichebe comparison. Poor bill, being hung out to dry my arse. You want to be the chairman of the 4th most successful club in the English league then take the pressure that comes with it. no investment over ten years, mixed with lies, empty promises cushioned by a manager that has effectively saved his arse. Everyone has an opinion of the current chairman as they have had enough info to have an opinion, are you deluded enough to actually think we now need to justify his replacement with due diligence of our supposed candidate? To summarise and answer your final point, it is clear to the majority that Anichebe is not the answer, in identifying that, does it make it our job to source his replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Poor bill, being hung out to dry my arse. You want to be the chairman of the 4th most successful club in the English league then take the pressure that comes with it. no investment over ten years, mixed with lies, empty promises cushioned by a manager that has effectively saved his arse. Everyone has an opinion of the current chairman as they have had enough info to have an opinion, are you deluded enough to actually think we now need to justify his replacement with due diligence of our supposed candidate? To summarise and answer your final point, it is clear to the majority that Anichebe is not the answer, in identifying that, does it make it our job to source his replacement? Well fair's fair Hafnia. Pax's post does raise a point. Bill is an Evertonian, (a plus) but he is skint (a minus) The board seem to be somehow inept (A minus) and so on ...... Well just who could we possibly find to replace Bill? We need the plusses (is that a word?) but with money. What we need is a rich Evertonian. Are there any out there? I just can't think of any. What we don't want is a rich NON-Evertonian that doesn't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Why the hell do they need to be an Evertonian? Shall we go down the route of only having Evertonians play for us as well? It doesn't matter if they were boyhood a Liverpool fan to me, as long as they run the club well and back the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/article.php?ID=10215 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 "Everton message boards are infinitely more varied and witty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 We can get 30 odd thoudsand blues into goodison, why does the chairman need to be one? To cut a long story short, the current regime got us into debt which servicing has cost us big, we need that debt to be paid off. Drop the asking price, hire someone to go and seek a buyer and save us the pain of watching a 90% great team being dismantled to service the debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Poor bill, being hung out to dry my arse. You want to be the chairman of the 4th most successful club in the English league then take the pressure that comes with it. no investment over ten years, mixed with lies, empty promises cushioned by a manager that has effectively saved his arse. Everyone has an opinion of the current chairman as they have had enough info to have an opinion, are you deluded enough to actually think we now need to justify his replacement with due diligence of our supposed candidate? To summarise and answer your final point, it is clear to the majority that Anichebe is not the answer, in identifying that, does it make it our job to source his replacement? Being the 4th most successful club in the English League means absolutely nothing. Stop living in the past, live in the now and get a huge dose of reality. Everton used to be a top team who won things. We are not that now and haven't been for a very very long time. We have no divine right to win things and no divine right to consider ourselves a big club. No investment because there is no money to invest. Exactly what part of that do you not understand? Have you seen what happened to Leeds when they spent money they don't have? Have you seen what happened to the world when we spent money we had no way of paying back? It's basic financial common sense to only spend what you have and can afford. That's exactly what the board have done. What promise did Bill make? How do you have enough info to have an opinion? Are you privy to board meetings, our accounts or sensitive and confidential club matters? No, so it's 100% impossible for you to have any solid evidence to form any sort of credible opinion. You know nothing apart from rumours, propaganda and media reports. If you know more, then state it. Yes, it seems i am deluded enough to think anyone who buys Everton should be vetted to the end of the earth. I'm deluded enough to not want the type of owner who took Portsmouth down, Newcastle down, Birmingham down, West Ham down etc etc. Your Anichebe comparison is ridiculous and make no sense. But to try and make sense of it, i will ask you a question. How many strikers are there playing football compared to billionaire individuals or groups who want to chuck £500 million at a football club with no chance of a return? What is it you don't understand about the fact that there is no one out there who wants to buy Everton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Dismay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlbunton Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 What promise did Bill make? How do you have enough info to have an opinion? Are you privy to board meetings, our accounts or sensitive and confidential club matters? No, so it's 100% impossible for you to have any solid evidence to form any sort of credible opinion. You know nothing apart from rumours, propaganda and media reports. If you know more, then state it. What is it you don't understand about the fact that there is no one out there who wants to buy Everton? Take a look at this article which breaks down most of the issues of Bill - http://www.toffeeweb...le.php?ID=10219 Its pretty comprehensive. So unless you are waiting for Bill to say he is a poor chairman and is misleading the fans, well then I hope you never sit on a jury. I think Bill does want Everton to do well. But he has proven to be inept at best as a chairman. Other than hitting the lottery with Moyes to manage the team on a budget he has not helped the team. Does he need to go, as chairman yes. As a partial owner, I don't care. But the board members do not seem to want a share issue to raise funds and just to get a cash infusion while staying in power. That is what needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Unbelievable how much charity work Everton and it's fans are associated with yet it's idiots who get all the media. Well done the peoples club for being the tosser that tries to order food for you in a restaurant "we'll all have" or want in their case a new board? money? manager? stadium? players? If they want all this, just support a different team, you'll make a great city fan. The only thing collective is the title of this group. We're one of the best run clubs in the country and most referenced by other teams as the model they want to follow. Hopefully this group will fuck the fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/11-12/news/article.php?ID=10215 Dismay? Just a bit late . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 The Telegraph's Henry Winter and Rory Smith are apparently going to write about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Just a bit late . 12hours and 31minutes late - I can live with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 We don't need someone to come in and spend £500m we don't need a new stadium. We need someone to come in and pay off the debts and let the club run on it's own profits and give it maybe five years of solid debt free running, then consider the stadium issue. Goodison is not falling down! In the mean time I'd just be happy if bill stepped down as chairman, stay on the board as a director, and maybe let carter sit as chairman until a possible buyer comes along. It would at least reduce a bit of the strain coming bills way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Pax, in my original reply to your question I said that the loan would cost £50m+ to repay, the actual number is closer to £68m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 We don't need someone to come in and spend £500m we don't need a new stadium. We need someone to come in and pay off the debts and let the club run on it's own profits and give it maybe five years of solid debt free running, then consider the stadium issue. Goodison is not falling down! In the mean time I'd just be happy if bill stepped down as chairman, stay on the board as a director, and maybe let carter sit as chairman until a possible buyer comes along. It would at least reduce a bit of the strain coming bills way. It might not be falling down but the issue isnt so much with the structure of Goodison its more to do with the fact that there are little or no corporate facilities and so we arent making enough money So IMO we desperately do need a new stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 The Telegraph's Henry Winter and Rory Smith are apparently going to write about it. Good, I like Henry Winter a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 It might not be falling down but the issue isnt so much with the structure of Goodison its more to do with the fact that there are little or no corporate facilities and so we arent making enough money So IMO we desperately do need a new stadium We know that Deloitte and Touche said that a new stadium in Kirkby could bring in £6m a year. We also know that the tv revenue has gone up £13m for the season just finished. The car park application was also withdrawn recently.. even if Everton moved away from Goodison, it would have been used by LFC fans so would have been worth pursuing had it been cheap enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 It might not be falling down but the issue isnt so much with the structure of Goodison its more to do with the fact that there are little or no corporate facilities and so we arent making enough money So IMO we desperately do need a new stadium I don't think you get my point mate, yes we do need a stadium from a growth point of view, I mean we don't need one from the point of view that we don't have one to play in. Also all this we need more corporate seats, we haven't sold out the corporate seats we have now for years! Our sales figures have gone down year on year. Well in fact they have stayed the same in £, but we sell less Corp seats but our prices have gone up so it sort of balances out. My point of leaving the stadium for five years after any sort of take over is that we would have much more money after five years of debt free business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Being the 4th most successful club in the English League means absolutely nothing. Stop living in the past, live in the now and get a huge dose of reality. Everton used to be a top team who won things. We are not that now and haven't been for a very very long time. We have no divine right to win things and no divine right to consider ourselves a big club. No investment because there is no money to invest. Exactly what part of that do you not understand? Have you seen what happened to Leeds when they spent money they don't have? Have you seen what happened to the world when we spent money we had no way of paying back? It's basic financial common sense to only spend what you have and can afford. That's exactly what the board have done. What promise did Bill make? How do you have enough info to have an opinion? Are you privy to board meetings, our accounts or sensitive and confidential club matters? No, so it's 100% impossible for you to have any solid evidence to form any sort of credible opinion. You know nothing apart from rumours, propaganda and media reports. If you know more, then state it. Yes, it seems i am deluded enough to think anyone who buys Everton should be vetted to the end of the earth. I'm deluded enough to not want the type of owner who took Portsmouth down, Newcastle down, Birmingham down, West Ham down etc etc. Your Anichebe comparison is ridiculous and make no sense. But to try and make sense of it, i will ask you a question. How many strikers are there playing football compared to billionaire individuals or groups who want to chuck £500 million at a football club with no chance of a return? What is it you don't understand about the fact that there is no one out there who wants to buy Everton? Top post, did you often watch tranmere on a Friday night with a cup of bovril? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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