Hafnia Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 What positive things about BK have i stated ? I have never stated the Kings Dock wasn't a failure. What i am stating is that i don't know the details of why it was a failure, so therefore blaming someone would seem beyond stupid and absolutely infantile. Is this a different challenge to: "would really like someone to list the reasons for getting rid of our board and Bill Kenwright. I'd like to see genuine reasons that can't be attributed to the creation of the Premier league, the distribution of tv money since the creation of the premier league and Everton as a football clubs failure to promote the club through out different markets through out the world when they had opportunity. Genuine failures, by Kenwright and his Board where blame can solely be placed at their feet". I guess you are saying that you have not stated anything positive about Bill and Co? Which may be correct, but if you aren't able to state the positives would you not say that the number of negatives would present a strong case for the shouts of "board out" etc ? Was he and the board responsible for the failure to promote the club through different markets throughout the world? That's a bit like saying to Ryan Giggs wife that she shouldn't be too hard on him as at least he didn't pay. You don't know the details as to why Kings Dock was failure, but you know who failed to provide it - is that not enough? Or was his wasted time pursuing the joke the was DK not enough http://www.vintagebluekipper.com/kingsdock/kingsdockisover.htm A fine piece from Mickey Blue Eyes - whichever way you look at it, Kenwright and the board failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) But everything listed in your last few posts still leaves the same bottom line on the accounts. Revenue minus costs will always equal profit, your just renaming subsections which can be unravelled by an equally competent accountant anyway. Yes. Profit, loss is the same. It doesn't tell us anything apart from profit and loss and no an equally good accountant cannot accurately interpret the accounts into specifics unless he is a mind reader. Edited July 12, 2011 by pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I guess you are saying that you have not stated anything positive about Bill and Co? Which may be correct, Glad we can agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 but if you aren't able to state the positives would you not say that the number of negatives would present a strong case for the shouts of "board out" etc ? Was he and the board responsible for the failure to promote the club through different markets throughout the world? That's a bit like saying to Ryan Giggs wife that she shouldn't be too hard on him as at least he didn't pay. You don't know the details as to why Kings Dock was failure, but you know who failed to provide it - is that not enough? Or was his wasted time pursuing the joke the was DK not enough http://www.vintagebluekipper.com/kingsdock/kingsdockisover.htm A fine piece from Mickey Blue Eyes - whichever way you look at it, Kenwright and the board failed. I'm not sure how many times i have to state this, but all the negatives you lot come up with are devoid of facts. It's purely speculation. I don't deal in speculation. Can you please indicate how many times i will have to tell you this? Everton, as a football club, failed to adapt to the Premier League. They failed to promote themselves in new markets and build a new, strong and reliable fan base / revenue stream. Liverpool are the same. Epic failure on behalf of the John Moores. Liverpool should have swept all aside in terms of revenue. When they premier league started, both clubs stood still and did nothing. Man Utd, the most successful Premier League club by some distance marketed themselves everywhere they could. They started selling all manner of products to new and lucrative markets. This is why Man Utd are the club they are. Liverpool, with the brand and name they had, could have dominated world markets had they applied even the slightest amount of creativity and forward thinking. So who do i blame for Everton's current position, mainly Phillip Carter and then Petter Johnson. As far as i am concerned the damage was done under these two and Kenwright has inherited a club that can't create any significant revenue at a time when large investment is needed to kick start the club. Massively inflated transfer fee's, player wages, a new stadium and marketing and promotion of the club is all something put at Kenwright's door and it's simply not his fault the club have no way to finance it all. There is a far bigger picture here than Kenwright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 As has been said on each of the last four pages, there are facts, it's just you'v not seen them. But no one here is Gunna go back through years of topics to find them for you. Four pages of repetitive shit, I hate it when a newbie comes along and digs up on old arguments and fucking stupid me just can't stay away. I've put my opinions on TT for years and I know most of the old boys views on all this too, that's enough for me (for the second time). If you want answers for your questions they are here, just dig hard enough. We even have a search function, you could possibly find out all of our opinions without even asking us coz I'm just about ready to fucking die! I need a fucking beer! Might make mark smile at least ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Talksport covered it tonight - http://utv.vo.llnwd.net/o16/talkSPORT/20110712_2030_LA.mp3 Starts 7mins in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Talksport talked about the people's group? I'd listen but no laptop, on the iPhone app I can't get it goin, but good publicity if they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Just read (scanned) the people's group statement/open letter... decent read (couldn't spell 'Gwladys' correctly!) I don't know whose fault the current state is or what's going on is actually right or wrong for the club - could they actually be saving us from going down the Leeds/Pompy route? My angst comes from the obvious quality we have already and players we need to imporve us (who could propel us into the top4) available but us not being able to do anything about it! Anyway, there's a lot of talk of facts in this thread, here are the facts... Ive not got the big money, but I promise to find investment Bill Kenwright January 2000 after acquiring EFC. Still waiting 11 years on The NTL deal is secured Bill Kenwright September 2000. The deal fell through I wouldnt sell Rooney for £50m Bill Kenwright June 2004. In August he was sold for a deal worth £27m The fortress money will be in the bank in the morning Bill Kenwright speaking at the EGM (remember them?) September 2004. The deal collapsed and was never explained Kirkby will be a world class arena, effectively free and with the best transport links in the UK Bill Kenwright speaking at the AGM November 2006 If we dont leave Goodison soon the place will lose its safety certificate Bill Kenwright December 2007 David will have cash to spend this summer Bill Kenwright May 2009. We spent nothing until the sale of Lescott. Joleon is not for sale Bill Kenwright August 2009 David will have cash to spend this summer Bill Kenwright, May 2010 Reading/recalling these makes me feel a right mug! I'm not one of these calling for Kenwright's head but he doesn't help himself does he?! Edited July 12, 2011 by c1982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I wonder what replies will be to that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 As has been said on each of the last four pages, there are facts, it's just you'v not seen them. But no one here is Gunna go back through years of topics to find them for you. There are no facts, there is only speculation. No one is 'gunna' go back through years of topics and find them for me is because there are no facts, just speculation and guess work. Oh and in case you were not paying attention, i haven't started one thread since joining. So it's not like im dragging up old news. I know it's difficult, but pay attention to the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I wonder what replies will be to that?! I look forward to it! How can you make excuses for that?... cue Pax... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 There are no facts, there is only speculation. No one is 'gunna' go back through years of topics and find them for me is because there are no facts, just speculation and guess work. Oh and in case you were not paying attention, i haven't started one thread since joining. So it's not like im dragging up old news. I know it's difficult, but pay attention to the facts. You're quick!!! They're all quotes straight from Kenwright - do they not make you cringe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 “I’ve not got the big money, but I promise to find investment” – Bill Kenwright January 2000 after acquiring EFC. Still waiting 11 years on “The NTL deal is secured” – Bill Kenwright September 2000. The deal fell through ” I wouldn’t sell Rooney for £50m” – Bill Kenwright June 2004. In August he was sold for a deal worth £27m “The fortress money will be in the bank in the morning” – Bill Kenwright speaking at the EGM (remember them?) September 2004. The deal collapsed and was never explained “Kirkby will be a world class arena, effectively free and with the best transport links in the UK” – Bill Kenwright speaking at the AGM November 2006 “If we don’t leave Goodison soon the place will lose its safety certificate” – Bill Kenwright December 2007 “David will have cash to spend this summer” – Bill Kenwright May 2009. We spent nothing until the sale of Lescott. “Joleon is not for sale” – Bill Kenwright August 2009 ‘’David will have cash to spend this summer’’ – Bill Kenwright, May 2010 Reading/recalling these makes me feel a right mug! I'm not one of these calling for Kenwright's head but he doesn't help himself does he?! 1) Name someone who has made a bid for Everton. 2) Why did it fall through and who's fault is that? What happened to NTL as a business and company? 3) Maybe he meant he wouldn't sell Rooney as long as Rooney wanted to stay at the club? What is he supposed to do, let a player rot in the reserves because he doesn't want to play for the club and literally let his contract expire and let him go for nothing? 4) You have no clue what happened here and no clue who's fault it was. 5) And? Are you telling me when you are working on a project on this scale things don't change, this out of your control? 6) Are you kidding me? This is one of your 'facts'? 7) Maybe Moyes couldn't get the players he wanted so chose not to spend? 8) See point 3. As far as i can see every attempt was made to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 You're quick!!! They're all quotes straight from Kenwright - do they not make you cringe? No, they don't make me cringe. I live in the real world. No one has posted anything to alter my stance on this football club and Bill Kenwright and i highly doubt anyone will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 No, they don't make me cringe. I live in the real world. No one has posted anything to alter my stance on this football club and Bill Kenwright and i highly doubt anyone will. I don't mind Kenwright - I actually quite like him, but reading those quotes - it's not good is it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 1) Name someone who has made a bid for Everton. 2) Why did it fall through and who's fault is that? What happened to NTL as a business and company? 3) Maybe he meant he wouldn't sell Rooney as long as Rooney wanted to stay at the club? What is he supposed to do, let a player rot in the reserves because he doesn't want to play for the club and literally let his contract expire and let him go for nothing? 4) You have no clue what happened here and no clue who's fault it was. 5) And? Are you telling me when you are working on a project on this scale things don't change, this out of your control? 6) Are you kidding me? This is one of your 'facts'? 7) Maybe Moyes couldn't get the players he wanted so chose not to spend? 8) See point 3. As far as i can see every attempt was made to keep him. Johnny Cochran is an evertonian, welcome to the board johnny!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I don't mind Kenwright - I actually quite like him, but reading those quotes - it's not good is it?! Not good, but also not what some would like you to believe either. I just like to poke holes in all the absolute rubbish that is said and written that is based on nothing but guesses. When you deal with business and finance at this level, things go wrong and change on a daily basis. If i was personally going to post what i think is Kenwrights biggest failings as chairman, it would be that he doesn't anticipate problems well and doesn't have any plan b when plan a fails. The biggest crimes were committed in in the late 80's and early 90's. That's when this club was sold up the river and when we planned to fail for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Johnny Cochran is an evertonian, welcome to the board johnny!!! Sometimes, when you have nothing worthwhile to say or contribute, it's best not to say or contribute anything. Write that down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hahahahahahahahaha oh my god! I am almost lost for words! It is just becoming funny now! I'm starting to think this is just a wind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 I too think hes a wind up merchant, hence my last post, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I too think hes a wind up merchant, hence my last post, Who's on a wind up, a person who forms his opinion based on facts or people who form their opinion based on nothing but guess work? The anti Kenwright bridge dealt yet another blow to their credibility by having no response, no debate and nothing to back up your poorly thought out and ill-informed views other than to suggest someone is on a 'wind up'. C'mon lads, i'm still waiting for the list of facts that prove we should sell the club to someone who is going to take us down, simply to get BK out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 The biggest crimes were committed in in the late 80's and early 90's. That's when this club was sold up the river and when we planned to fail for the foreseeable future. Kenwright was on Peter Johnson's board wasn't he? So he played a role in that mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Kenwright was on Peter Johnson's board wasn't he? So he played a role in that mess. Yeah, Johnson made him vice chairman, which was actually staggering on Johnson's part as they had opposed each other for control. Kenwright had actually backed out of the running as he didn't want a public spat over the ownership of the club. Very strange decision and not one i think was in the best interests of the football club. Johnsons however, was a self confessed Liverpool support, who owned Tranmere and Everton. If anyone, in the history of Everton football club, bought it purely to make money, it's Johnson. A man who left the club immediately after selling Duncan Ferguson behind Walter Smith's back. The feeling a lot have on here towards Bill Kenwright, well i share those feelings, but mine are directed at Johnson, not Kenwright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Yeah, Johnson made him vice chairman, which was actually staggering on Johnson's part as they had opposed each other for control. Kenwright had actually backed out of the running as he didn't want a public spat over the ownership of the club. Very strange decision and not one i think was in the best interests of the football club. Johnsons however, was a self confessed Liverpool support, who owned Tranmere and Everton. If anyone, in the history of Everton football club, bought it purely to make money, it's Johnson. A man who left the club immediately after selling Duncan Ferguson behind Walter Smith's back. The feeling a lot have on here towards Bill Kenwright, well i share those feelings, but mine are directed at Johnson, not Kenwright. yeah but surely the the situation now, he must take some of the blame, Kenwright has sucked every resource we have to cover various debts left by the previous regime(of which he was a part) because he never really had the money in the first place to help the club, i don't hate Bill, but he needs to sharpen his act up bigtime, because he makes himself look very amateur at times, he could be considered the saviour, or he could end up the egotist who destroyed the club, its up to him? personally i hope its the former as deep down we know he's an evertonian and has the club at heart, he just seems out of his depth abit Edited July 13, 2011 by theprisoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 yeah but surely the the situation now, he must take some of the blame, Kenwright has sucked every resource we have to cover various debts left by the previous regime(of which he was a part) because he never really had the money in the first place to help the club, i don't hate Bill, but he needs to sharpen his act up bigtime, because he makes himself look very amateur at times, he could be considered the saviour, or he could end up the egotist who destroyed the club, its up to him? personally i hope its the former as deep down we know he's an evertonian and has the club at heart, he just seems out of his depth abit We have no idea to what part Kenwright played in the previous regime. If Johnson did things kenwright was opposed to, then it's hardly fair to tarnish him with the same brush as Johnson. He might however had a lot to do with influence in the previous regime. Again, we don't know, so i will not say someone is guilty when there is no evidence to prove that. The fact remains that Kenwright either needs to sell the club (there are no buyers) or hand over the reigns to someone more able to move the club forward until such times as a sale of the club could be made. So which person does Kenwright hand the reigns over to drive this club forward? I haven't got any answers to that, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 He should hand the club over to you, you'll get us champions league and I'll stop getting fuckin annoyed at reading useless shit that I can't seem to keep away from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 He should hand the club over to you, you'll get us champions league and I'll stop getting fuckin annoyed at reading useless shit that I can't seem to keep away from! Yet you are unable to provide reasons to why it's useless shit, rendering it useful shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Rear the last four pages, useless shit! Not just from you, from all of us who bothered to have this conversation. You want facts, they have been posted (not by me, I've seen them and will not look them up for you!) but you ignor them and pass off direct quotes from the people in question as speculation. This alone is making it useless shit, this place is normally pretty calm and people agree to give up after a while, that's how we've always done it but you don't seem to be able to. If this carrys on as a merry go round what do you expect to happen and what can be achieved from all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Rear the last four pages, useless shit! Not just from you, from all of us who bothered to have this conversation. You want facts, they have been posted (not by me, I've seen them and will not look them up for you!) but you ignor them and pass off direct quotes from the people in question as speculation. This alone is making it useless shit, this place is normally pretty calm and people agree to give up after a while, that's how we've always done it but you don't seem to be able to. If this carrys on as a merry go round what do you expect to happen and what can be achieved from all of this? You haven't got the first clue that you are being hysterically hypercritical do you? The quotes anyone has posted are completely meaningless. How can you not understand this? On that part, i agree with you, useless shit. There has been no substantial evidence that can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that shows anything the anti Kenwright bridge have spouted about him is true and factual. Nothing, not one thing. Therefore, in my eyes, a person is innocent until proven guilty. You lot cannot prove guilt. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm not trying to prove guilt, I'm trying to just close the conversation before it becomes a complete piss take. As I've said before, this conversation has been done here many times, hence why most regulars aren't involved. It's been done, no one really cares mate. You won't change peoples opinions, we won't change yours, and I personally don't want to actually try to change yours. I'd just like you to shut up, it's past boring. I'd like to just delete the whole topic but it's not really what we do unless people are offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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