Lowensda Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Exactly. I'm sorting out a suprise meal for the missus next week, that includes her friends and family. Am i conspiring wrongfully? or rightfully? Initially its bad because its in secret but the outcome will be a nice suprise?! This topic is getting deep in theories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Point taken. However I was more talking about transfer activity. We announce we have say £20million (lol) suddenly Shane Long is worth £12million, N'Zog £20million No it's cool, I'm putting the horse before the cart, as it's my belief that we shouldn't be entering any transfer Market using the existing business model. I believe our squad should be left alone barring yobo, and yak. If we do get any money then yes nzogbia would do nicely. But yes, secrecy is vital in the transfer Market when buying. My issue is that this is not sustainable, we will be soon using the wood of the boat to fuel the boat. The answer is new owners, for which we need to sell. If we are selling - how much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 What about people who conspire a birthday party for someone but keep it a secret? That's well-meaning . But is that really a conspiracy? Is that the word you would use? I accept (by way of the dictionary definition) that it is not always the case that a conspiracy has to have some criminal intent, but I have never seen it used that way: certainly not in legal circles. I don’t think I would say I was conspiring to arrange a secret birthday party, as it seems to imply an element of subterfuge and chicanery. It also throws into question whether any secrets are well-meaning. Watching the Commons Committees try to get to the bottom of the hacking scandal demonstrates how difficult it is to establish the nature of a conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 But is that really a conspiracy? Is that the word you would use? I accept (by way of the dictionary definition) that it is not always the case that a conspiracy has to have some criminal intent, but I have never seen it used that way: certainly not in legal circles. I don’t think I would say I was conspiring to arrange a secret birthday party, as it seems to imply an element of subterfuge and chicanery. It also throws into question whether any secrets are well-meaning. Watching the Commons Committees try to get to the bottom of the hacking scandal demonstrates how difficult it is to establish the nature of a conspiracy. It wouldn't be the word I'd use, no, but you're still conspiring whether it's the word you'd use to describe what you were doing. Some people just don't possess the same vocabularly as others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 WTF!!!! That is all Oh, and where is the party?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 yeah ten why you not invited us you bastard?! you ashamed are ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 WTF!!!! That is all Oh, and where is the party?! yeah ten why you not invited us you bastard?! you ashamed are ya I am the party :jump for joy: I just walk in the room and it turns into a scene from the Diesel XXX advert....awwww yeah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It wouldn't be the word I'd use, no, but you're still conspiring whether it's the word you'd use to describe what you were doing. Some people just don't possess the same vocabularly as others . But to ‘conspire’ a birthday party would be using the word in its transitive sense (it needs an object) which as far as I can tell only has the negative connotation! The lesser known definition Mike brought up applies to intransitive verbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 As I said, still don't see theories. Please explain This doesn't surprise me at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 is suggesting that Bill Kenwright hasn't put Everton up for sale a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting that Bill Kenwright is asking too much for Everton a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting Bill Kenwright is lining his own pockets at Everton's expense a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting that Bill Kenwright has turned down good and solid offers for the club a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting that the board are being wreckless or incompetent with the funds available to them a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting the board are telling lies to Everton fans a conspiracy theory? Is suggesting that David Moyes is also telling lies to Everton fans about the support he gets from Kenwright and the board and that he has an incredibly good relationship with both, a conspiracy theory? If all the above are not conspiracy theories, then there will be evidence to prove their validity and therefore they will not look like the inane ramblings of a group of people who's sole purpose is to get rid of the Everton chairman and his board at what ever cost. By the way, did any of you happen to watch the disptaches programme on how to Buy a Football club? I've just returned from holiday and watched it last night. Have to say, if Bill Kenwright is keeping 'investors' like that from getting near Everton, a statue should be made of him and placed outside the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) haha couldnt help yourself could you? ive not seen any of them theories here, im not sure where you have. i for one do not think bill is lining his pockets or sitting on money. the issue is that we have none! and that is not a conspiracy, thats from the horses mouth. Edited July 21, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) Point by point: Nope it's a question that has been asked due to the 24/7 search being fruitless - are we actually for sale if so see point 2 Given that Everton are for sale then surely the use of free media would be a savvy way of advertising at what price? if so what is it? If we don't know the price then point 1 has some weight I've no concerns with Bill lining pockets - I don't think he would, however I would like to see why the operational costs have rocketed beyond all comprehension, is it Phillip Green? If the club do not disclose/advertise the 'for sale' price, then do we really expect them to confirm bids? A bid can only be evaluated as solid if we know what it is they can't be wreckless with what they haven't got - we have no ability to raise funds such is our credit rating. have they been wreckless? when you consider the sale of nearly all our assets, increase in debt etc - they have got us in this state. Are we only to evaluate the present and forget the past? To be tagged as a liar means you have form for fabricating the truth, would you trust someone who said the money for Kings dock was ring fenced?, that the NTL money would be in the bank in the morning?, that the delay to the construction at the Park End was due to a reluctance to relocate offices and IT equipment during the season? The fortress fund? has your boss made you extremely rich? and have you openly criticised your boss recently? Not really, just a lot of unanswered questions that will not go away they are questions upon being answered will enlighten many an Evertonian as to whether this board have our best interests at heart? We want the truth, can you handle the truth? Can you handle the facts that once uncovered may expose those on the board as being responsible for our off field demise? Hopefully we will soon see Yep, lets put a statue of him where the Dixie Dean statue once stood, why isn't it there anymore? Oh yes, to make way for the retail development that is no longer happening under the ownership of the very man you wish to honour. You are right, every potential owner is a cowboy, abromovich, Sheikh mansoor, Randy lerner, Niall Quinn, John henry, Peter Coates, Edited July 21, 2011 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Given that Everton are for sale then surely the use of free media would be a savvy way of advertising at what price? if so what is it? If we don't know the price then point 1 has some weight If the club do not disclose/advertise the 'for sale' price, then do we really expect them to confirm bids? A bid can only be evaluated as solid if we know what it is If I had a really nice classic car, I wouldnt put a price on it. I would say its for sale at the right price to the right person, someone who can maintain it and wont drive it into a wall. People who are genuinely interested can then approach me for more information. Its that simple. Just because we dont know the price doesnt mean the club isnt for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 If I had a really nice classic car, I wouldnt put a price on it. I would say its for sale at the right price to the right person, someone who can maintain it and wont drive it into a wall. People who are genuinely interested can then approach me for more information. Its that simple. Just because we dont know the price doesnt mean the club isnt for sale. I think if you had already sold it's beautifully crafted wheels and replaced them with cheap imitations just so you can fill the tank up, then you better get an advert in autotrader and pay for the premium advert. Whats next? are you going to have to sell it's fine leather interior to pay for it's annual service? Are you just pointing at insurance statistics for car write offs to justify owning the vehicle till you have sold off every valuable component to the fella next door? The very fella who is going about restoring a model that wasn't a patch on yours years ago. The very fella who many thought would write his off? The fact that you love the car doesn't mean you deserve to own it, there are many fans of the vehicle who just want to see it roaring around in it's former glory and all they can see is you taking it to the scrap yard. They have the cheek to ask you questions as to why you haven't got a garage to park it in? They also question as to why you were interested in storing it in some unsecure lock up out of town? They want to know who you borrowed the money off to buy it and whether that person by default owns it? They can see you had an opportunity years ago to display the vehicle in a museum on the waterfront but you failed to capitalise on the opportunity, where it's welfare would have been all assured... In short get it advertised, you've had long enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think if you had already sold it's beautifully crafted wheels and replaced them with cheap imitations just so you can fill the tank up, then you better get an advert in autotrader and pay for the premium advert. Whats next? are you going to have to sell it's fine leather interior to pay for it's annual service? Are you just pointing at insurance statistics for car write offs to justify owning the vehicle till you have sold off every valuable component to the fella next door? The very fella who is going about restoring a model that wasn't a patch on yours years ago. The very fella who many thought would write his off? The fact that you love the car doesn't mean you deserve to own it, there are many fans of the vehicle who just want to see it roaring around in it's former glory and all they can see is you taking it to the scrap yard. They have the cheek to ask you questions as to why you haven't got a garage to park it in? They also question as to why you were interested in storing it in some unsecure lock up out of town? They want to know who you borrowed the money off to buy it and whether that person by default owns it? They can see you had an opportunity years ago to display the vehicle in a museum on the waterfront but you failed to capitalise on the opportunity, where it's welfare would have been all assured... In short get it advertised, you've had long enough Took that toooo far mate and made no sense in the end. 1 thing though (in bold), the fact that the person organized to buy and bought it means he deserves to own it. The fact he loves it too is even better. If other people want to drive, they should cough up and buy it off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think if you had already sold it's beautifully crafted wheels and replaced them with cheap imitations just so you can fill the tank up,(sale of assets) then you better get an advert in autotrader and pay for the premium advert. Whats next? are you going to have to sell it's fine leather interior to pay for it's annual service? (no money) Are you just pointing at insurance statistics for car write offs to justify owning the vehicle till you have sold off every valuable component to the fella next door? The very fella who is going about restoring a model that wasn't a patch on yours years ago. The very fella who many thought would write his off? (other less prestigious clubs have been taken over and their owners have financially enabled them to cherry pick what they want from us) The fact that you love the car doesn't mean you deserve to own it, there are many fans of the vehicle who just want to see it roaring around in it's former glory and all they can see is you taking it to the scrap yard. (loving and owning the club that is steeped in history does not give you the right to take it down) They have the cheek to ask you questions as to why you haven't got a garage to park it in? (stadium is mortgaged) They also question as to why you were interested in storing it in some unsecure lock up out of town? (kirby) They want to know who you borrowed the money off to buy it and whether that person by default owns it? (phillip green) They can see you had an opportunity years ago to display the vehicle in a museum on the waterfront but you failed to capitalise on the opportunity, where it's welfare would have been all assured...(kings dock) In short get it advertised, you've had long enough Explanation in brackets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Took that toooo far mate and made no sense in the end. 1 thing though (in bold), the fact that the person organized to buy and bought it means he deserves to own it. The fact he loves it too is even better. If other people want to drive, they should cough up and buy it off him. Explained above. Interesting concept this "for sale without a price", wonder why it's taken so long to find a buyer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Explained above. Interesting concept this "for sale without a price", wonder why it's taken so long to find a buyer... For sale for a price that we are not aware of is not without a price.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 With a 24/7 search for a buyer??? Really, the shear volume of contacts that would have been made in such an extensive search and we haven't heard the asking price? Almost makes you think that we aren't for sale...wait there at the kirby enquiry did elstone not say that the club was not for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm in absolute hysterics at those who think credible potential buyers wouldn't be told a price for the club If someone wants to buy the club, they are very serious about it, they will be asked to provide means and then once that has been done, the price will be revealed as well as all the other details a potential buyer needs to know. This is how business's are usually sold. FFS this is even procedure done when someone inquires about buying an expensive property these days. You have to show proof your not a tyre kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 For sale for a price that we are not aware of is not without a price.... Quite. Why do some supporters think they have the right to confidential and sensitive financial information about the club? Do they think making this information public would actually do any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 If I had a really nice classic car, I wouldnt put a price on it. I would say its for sale at the right price to the right person, someone who can maintain it and wont drive it into a wall. People who are genuinely interested can then approach me for more information. Its that simple. Just because we dont know the price doesnt mean the club isnt for sale. Im sorry but if someone who has been actively trying to sell the club for however many years hasnt disclosed an official price (which lets face it should have dropped a fair amount in the last couple of years) then that man is an idiot. Now I am not saying that Kenwright hasnt given a price to people but lets face it the price of a business is going to be a big determinant of whether your going to buy it. No investor would go through all them checks without knowing the price, as thats where you know your margins and you can then begin to think about the return you will make. The thing I cant get over was the 'the club hasnt been for sale' comment in the kirkby enquiry, yet Bill has been claiming all these years that he has been actively trying to sell the club. If a special committee tasked to look deeply into the clubs finances and objectives cant tell that the club is for sale then how is a potential buyer? I dont for one second believe that no-one wants to buy Everton Football Club. But it will all come down to price. We have some very good on the field assets and a team that even without strengthening can challenge the top 4. Yes we need a new ground in some shape or form but a development of the park end would be a considerable start and certainly wouldnt cost billions. The stumbling block is that those who bought into the club for the Kenwright regime want a return on their money (as they should expect in all honesty being business men) and it seems they arent willing to put in some of their own personal wealth to make that happen because there is a big risk that they might not get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pax Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Im sorry but if someone who has been actively trying to sell the club for however many years hasnt disclosed an official price (which lets face it should have dropped a fair amount in the last couple of years) then that man is an idiot. Now I am not saying that Kenwright hasnt given a price to people but lets face it the price of a business is going to be a big determinant of whether your going to buy it. No investor would go through all them checks without knowing the price, as thats where you know your margins and you can then begin to think about the return you will make. The thing I cant get over was the 'the club hasnt been for sale' comment in the kirkby enquiry, yet Bill has been claiming all these years that he has been actively trying to sell the club. If a special committee tasked to look deeply into the clubs finances and objectives cant tell that the club is for sale then how is a potential buyer? I dont for one second believe that no-one wants to buy Everton Football Club. But it will all come down to price. We have some very good on the field assets and a team that even without strengthening can challenge the top 4. Yes we need a new ground in some shape or form but a development of the park end would be a considerable start and certainly wouldnt cost billions. The stumbling block is that those who bought into the club for the Kenwright regime want a return on their money (as they should expect in all honesty being business men) and it seems they arent willing to put in some of their own personal wealth to make that happen because there is a big risk that they might not get it back. Did someone say there were no conspiracy theorists on this forum, no speculators and no guess work? This special committee tasked to look into the finances of the club. The board handed all this information over to them did they or is it ....................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Im sorry but if someone who has been actively trying to sell the club for however many years hasnt disclosed an official price (which lets face it should have dropped a fair amount in the last couple of years) then that man is an idiot. Now I am not saying that Kenwright hasnt given a price to people but lets face it the price of a business is going to be a big determinant of whether your going to buy it. No investor would go through all them checks without knowing the price, as thats where you know your margins and you can then begin to think about the return you will make. The thing I cant get over was the 'the club hasnt been for sale' comment in the kirkby enquiry, yet Bill has been claiming all these years that he has been actively trying to sell the club. If a special committee tasked to look deeply into the clubs finances and objectives cant tell that the club is for sale then how is a potential buyer? I dont for one second believe that no-one wants to buy Everton Football Club. But it will all come down to price. We have some very good on the field assets and a team that even without strengthening can challenge the top 4. Yes we need a new ground in some shape or form but a development of the park end would be a considerable start and certainly wouldnt cost billions. The stumbling block is that those who bought into the club for the Kenwright regime want a return on their money (as they should expect in all honesty being business men) and it seems they arent willing to put in some of their own personal wealth to make that happen because there is a big risk that they might not get it back. How dare you Bailey?! Are telling me that the man who was chairman of Everton when we failed the Kings Dock move, failed to secure the NTL deal (but allowed spending against the failed investment), created the Fortress Fund and pursued the joke that was Kirby is an idiot just because he hasn't put a price on something he is spending 24/7 trying to sell? http://www.kenwright.com/index.php?id=938 As above tried to buy tickets to 'a pack of lies' couldn't find the price so wasn't sure if it was in my budget... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Did someone say there were no conspiracy theorists on this forum, no speculators and no guess work? This special committee tasked to look into the finances of the club. The board handed all this information over to them did they or is it ....................................... Let me take you back a week or so to the fine speculative guess work you spouted but were unable to reply to.... allow me to be a helpful halfwit Mr Facts, this is what you quoted: As i have already stated, in my opinion, Fellaini isn't fit to lace Essien's boots. Essien does everting at least three times better than MF. Obviously this will enrage the MF is the best player in the world mob, but he really should be better in the air too. oooops mr facts... now can you please spoon feed me the answer to the question I asked on last page.... or as per above don't you know how to review previous posts? oh here you go: Does independent thinking mean I should choose to ignore glowing errors, deteriorating state of the clubs finances and not concur with articles that fellow everton fans have constructed using well researched and unchallenged information? If someone could present a case as to why the chairman and the board have not been responsible for the perilous state of our club I would happily read it. If you can dismiss kings dock, the money spent against the failed ntl deal, the lies that were the fortress fund, the waste of time that was kirby and tell me the culprits accountable I will gladly review my stance. Until then, the custodians of this club, the decision makers should be treated in the same manner any of us would be if we displayed such negligence in our jobs. P.S you base your opinions on facts is that correct? But you have created a new formula which I have not seen published, maybe it's an old rothmans yearbook, but players can be accurately and factually compared in multiples? As in Essien is at least 3 times better at "everting" than fellaini? Given my job as an analyst, I would love to see the formula as to how you got to this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Let me take you back a week or so to the fine speculative guess work you spouted but were unable to reply to.... allow me to be a helpful halfwit Mr Facts, this is what you quoted: As i have already stated, in my opinion, Fellaini isn't fit to lace Essien's boots. Essien does everting at least three times better than MF. Obviously this will enrage the MF is the best player in the world mob, but he really should be better in the air too. oooops mr facts... now can you please spoon feed me the answer to the question I asked on last page.... or as per above don't you know how to review previous posts? oh here you go: Does independent thinking mean I should choose to ignore glowing errors, deteriorating state of the clubs finances and not concur with articles that fellow everton fans have constructed using well researched and unchallenged information? If someone could present a case as to why the chairman and the board have not been responsible for the perilous state of our club I would happily read it. If you can dismiss kings dock, the money spent against the failed ntl deal, the lies that were the fortress fund, the waste of time that was kirby and tell me the culprits accountable I will gladly review my stance. Until then, the custodians of this club, the decision makers should be treated in the same manner any of us would be if we displayed such negligence in our jobs. P.S you base your opinions on facts is that correct? But you have created a new formula which I have not seen published, maybe it's an old rothmans yearbook, but players can be accurately and factually compared in multiples? As in Essien is at least 3 times better at "everting" than fellaini? Given my job as an analyst, I would love to see the formula as to how you got to this fact. Has someone upset you Hafnia hahaha, i totally agree tho mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Has someone upset you Hafnia hahaha, i totally agree tho mate! I only asked 5 or 6 times to an answer to this one! All we get is conspiracy, speculation etc etc. My question is simple: given the state of the club, can anyone give me solid facts as to why such questions should not be asked, and answers not be given? The people's group have over 3000 Facebook followers, and the momentum is building. Apparently they have made more progress and things to be announced soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 If I didn't hate facebook they would have 3001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Quite. Why do some supporters think they have the right to confidential and sensitive financial information about the club? Do they think making this information public would actually do any good? in some respects you are correct, but then my argument to that would be, don't DARE call yourselves the PEOPLES CLUB when you won't tell your people what the hell is going on :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 This is what i would do to this thread if it wasn't digital and was represented by a human being... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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