marcopaulo Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 The bloke on the street analogy just doesnt work. Why? Because owning a house is not owning a business. If you own a house you are responsible to know all the expenses. Being the chairman of a multi-million pound business means you have people below you to deal with all these issues. People there that you trust, rightly or wrongly. Why cant Bill? Because he is a human being that requires sleep, social interaction, time away from work (though it sounds from that like he never stops) food etc. Oh, and theres only 24 hours a day. Oh and he doesnt have degrees in law, finance, communications, etc etc etc that would be required to understand every last thing. A chairman is there to oversee, not understand everything. i'm not having a go matt or anythin cos i always like your opinions but you say he doesn't have this, that and the other then is he the best man to be concentrating on selling this club? if he can't explain where 24m a year is going how can he sell to people who will want to know what operating costs are etc? maybe i am missing something but that doesn't seem like the best person for the job as he keeps saying he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 i think them telling him to come out and say these things is doing him a favour. he is getting a bad rep for not saying things, but he has said it to these guys so its not confidential. if he came out and told people some of the things he has said here it would at least get people off his back. im not his biggest fan, ive always admitted that, but i do like the guy. he just isnt doing himself any favours at the moment. as marco said, he should be finding out where £24m has gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formby Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 since when do you know what "Kenwright-like" is? are you a personal friend? to say its been edited is just insane, do you really think the club would let 3 randoms just write any old crap bout them, then edit it? so it makes the chairman look like he's ready for a straight jacket and the padded cell? i think Bill did a good job of that on his own. I said seems, not know. Evidence: every interview I’ve seen him give and personal anecdotes regarding West End shows, which I do know about. Not sure where you get insane from, but I think you're very naive to presume people don't present things the way they want, especially if they have such a large axe to grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Good lord, the man comes out honest as you can get and you call him disillusioned and incompetent. What I read was that he isnt in charge of running the club, he is in charge of selling the club. Thats basically his life. The board are in charge of running the club and seem to be giving him as much information as the rest of us. The bloke on the street analogy just doesnt work. Why? Because owning a house is not owning a business. If you own a house you are responsible to know all the expenses. Being the chairman of a multi-million pound business means you have people below you to deal with all these issues. People there that you trust, rightly or wrongly. Why cant Bill? Because he is a human being that requires sleep, social interaction, time away from work (though it sounds from that like he never stops) food etc. Oh, and theres only 24 hours a day. Oh and he doesnt have degrees in law, finance, communications, etc etc etc that would be required to understand every last thing. A chairman is there to oversee, not understand everything. Im starting to understand this disgust of the board more, but I still see Bill as the right man to sell. Why? Because noone is going to do it as passionately whilst keeping the clubs interests at heart. Reading it has opened my eyes a bit, or rather, has made me see the same thing in a different light and i dont like it. But I still trust Bill to lead the way whislt suspecting the board more than i did. As for the transcript being edited. Not sure on that, but if theres a transcript that detailed then theres a voice recording. Id like to hear that. Wonder if the Blue Union would release such a thing. Im guessing not. Honest?! - he has been smoked out! Honesty - well seriously re-read the Philip Green part. Bumbling isn't even the word for it. A great way of concealing the truth is to allow some less controversial bits to escape. Pienaar money gone to the bank - "oh really?, well we thought as much, but now you have told us we won't think that you have it in your capacity to tell any lies, let's forget the £20m operating cost and Phil Green eh" He is the chairman, he represents the board, he represents what is happening at our club. Do you want to rewrite his job description to being that of a tea boy in order to make him less responsible? For our part he is the board, you don't trust them but you trust him? You trust him to sell our club? He can't answer the £20m operational expense line? How is he going to sell something that he has no understanding of? Anyhow, my time is almost done regarding this nonsense. Being proven right wasn't what I was all about, knowing something was massively wong that needed changing is. The time is fast approaching where the board have nowhere to hide. Bills cloak of steel resembles tin foil and I feel they will be looking to sell asap now that this is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 only other comment i'll make (i cant stay away) was i didnt see the "son" thing as patronising. i know plenty of fellas my senior, family and friends parents, who drop "son" into a sentence. i dont take any offence to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) i suppose BK and the board are responsible for this and the previous world recession from 2 years ago too right? Marco, i know youre not havin a go mate, no worries there. To sell the club, you need to find people who are interested before anything else can happen, for this you only need personality and the gift of gab. When youve got them interested, then the people with the credentials take over. I'll try and make an analogy here: if we are fishing, Bill makes the cast and keeps doing so until he gets the big fish. If the big fish doesnt bite, hes not going to settle for a smaller fish, he keeps casting for the big fish. This isnt that hard. What is hard is reeling the big fish in whilst keeping the big fish on the line. This requires a lot of experience and technique and this is where the board take over. They follow every movement from the moment the fish bites, through the struggles and fights, each twist and turn, until its landed. Bills done his job as soon as he gets the hook and im sure he can do this. My point is its not his job to know the details, his job is to big Everton up and sell. Its his job to have people in place to investigate questions too. He doesnt have to know where the 24m a year is going, thats for the financial team to explain, for our Dale Winton CEO to explain. All he needs to do is say "i know theres a concern here, but ive absolute trust in my team, come along for a meeting with them to get the details/explanation you require". He, as 1 man, can do no more than that. Haf - sorry mate, not even going to start on that.... Well, maybe a little. How is he going to sell something that he has no understanding of? To come back to the car analogy used a while ago - if youre selling your car, do you know every last detail of every last working part? If the petrol tank was missing and youre not a mechanic, what do you say? "I'll direct you to my mechanic to explain the problem". 20m is a big issue yes, but its not for him to explain, its for CEO and financial people to explain. Smoked out?! my word... He might sound like he was bumbling but frankly, i put that down to a complete lack of meeting preparation and structure from the BU side. Edited August 18, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 i suppose BK and the board are responsible for this and the previous world recession from 2 years ago too right? Marco, i know youre not havin a go mate, no worries there. To sell the club, you need to find people who are interested before anything else can happen, for this you only need personality and the gift of gab. When youve got them interested, then the people with the credentials take over. I'll try and make an analogy here: if we are fishing, Bill makes the cast and keeps doing so until he gets the big fish. If the big fish doesnt bite, hes not going to settle for a smaller fish, he keeps casting for the big fish. This isnt that hard. What is hard is reeling the big fish in whilst keeping the big fish on the line. This requires a lot of experience and technique and this is where the board take over. They follow every movement from the moment the fish bites, through the struggles and fights, each twist and turn, until its landed. Bills done his job as soon as he gets the hook and im sure he can do this. My point is its not his job to know the details, his job is to big Everton up and sell. Its his job to have people in place to investigate questions too. He doesnt have to know where the 24m a year is going, thats for the financial team to explain, for our Dale Winton CEO to explain. All he needs to do is say "i know theres a concern here, but ive absolute trust in my team, come along for a meeting with them to get the details/explanation you require". He, as 1 man, can do no more than that. Haf - sorry mate, not even going to start on that.... Well, maybe a little. To come back to the car analogy used a while ago - if youre selling your car, do you know every last detail of every last working part? If the petrol tank was missing and youre not a mechanic, what do you say? "I'll direct you to my mechanic to explain the problem". 20m is a big issue yes, but its not for him to explain, its for CEO and financial people to explain. Smoked out?! my word... He might sound like he was bumbling but frankly, i put that down to a complete lack of meeting preparation and structure from the BU side. Ok, let's get this right - it's not his job to know the details??? The use of phone apps to book tickets etc, fan engagement etc yeah fine, leave that to the specialists. But I'm sorry, £24m up from £11m in operating costs in the space of a few years is one huge elephant in the room, and the chairman is not supposed to know this? - sorry mate that is absolute rubbish. He even says he is the one who talks to the banks? so how is he not meant to know this detail? Mr bank manager will certainly want to know this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Ok, let's get this right - it's not his job to know the details??? The use of phone apps to book tickets etc, fan engagement etc yeah fine, leave that to the specialists. But I'm sorry, £24m up from £11m in operating costs in the space of a few years is one huge elephant in the room, and the chairman is not supposed to know this? - sorry mate that is absolute rubbish. He even says he is the one who talks to the banks? so how is he not meant to know this detail? Mr bank manager will certainly want to know this... Mr Bank manager certainly will want to know and will be directed to the CEO and financial advisers for explanation. Im not arguing that the operational costs shouldnt be explained, but its unrealistic to expect a chairman who isnt a financial specialist to know the ins and outs. He goes on the advise of the CEO. Lets go a little into definitions of job roles here; CEO - A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking corporate officer (executive) or administrator in charge of total management of an organization. An individual appointed as a CEO of a corporation, company, organization, or agency typically reports to the board of directors. Chairman - The highest officer of an organized group such as a board, committee, or deliberative assembly. The person holding the office is typically elected or appointed by the members of the group. The chairman presides over meetings of the assembled group and conducts its business in an orderly fashion. When the group is not in session, the officer's duties often include acting as its head, its representative to the outside world and its spokesperson. Like i said before, im trying to understand the BU and supporters like yourselves. Really, I am. But what I dont get is that Bill is being made the scapegoat. Im starting to accept that the board is responsible for our current state. Genuine question, how many of the board were there before BK took over as chairman? The only major change i can think of is Elstone for Wyness (im not sure on this). Edited August 18, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Marco, i know youre not havin a go mate, no worries there. To sell the club, you need to find people who are interested before anything else can happen, for this you only need personality and the gift of gab. When youve got them interested, then the people with the credentials take over. But from the interview he is saying he's the man to sell the club, full stop, forget other people with the credentials to do it. Infact, he says it more than once. The BU people mention to him on more than one occasion getting in people specifically to sell the club and he says he's the man to do it, not any one else! And that is what I find alarming, especially as he admits there's plenty he doesn't actually know with regards to the finances of the club. Potential buyers do not want to hear about the Boy's Pen, or that he thinks Everton is the greatest club in the world, they want facts and figures. Both of which Kenwright has admitted he doesn't even bloody know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 But from the interview he is saying he's the man to sell the club, full stop, forget other people with the credentials to do it. Infact, he says it more than once. The BU people mention to him on more than one occasion getting in people specifically to sell the club and he says he's the man to do it, not any one else! And that is what I find alarming, especially as he admits there's plenty he doesn't actually know with regards to the finances of the club. Potential buyers do not want to hear about the Boy's Pen, or that he thinks Everton is the greatest club in the world, they want facts and figures. Both of which Kenwright has admitted he doesn't even bloody know! to sell the club you sell ideas first, then get to the details. Initial meetings for large businesses are never about the details, its all about getting the ball rolling. He thinks he is the best person for it because he can sell the ideas and he has the clubs best interests at heart. It would be easy to get an interim board in to push through a sale, then we risk a Venkys or Portsmouth. Actually, noone could push a sale through at the moment since stock markets are plummeting, banks are tightening the purse strings and noone has any money. This has been the situation since Jan 2009..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 you are right, he does have people to do the running and the finances, but if a figure that big was just sat in the middle when he looks at the accounts himself (which he must do by the way or it is just neglegence) he should make it his business to find out why costs have gone so high. oh, and the red shite are laughing at us even more than before, and they had hicks and gillete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Mr Bank manager certainly will want to know and will be directed to the CEO and financial advisers for explanation. Im not arguing that the operational costs shouldnt be explained, but its unrealistic to expect a chairman who isnt a financial specialist to know the ins and outs. He goes on the advise of the CEO. Lets go a little into definitions of job roles here; CEO - A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking corporate officer (executive) or administrator in charge of total management of an organization. An individual appointed as a CEO of a corporation, company, organization, or agency typically reports to the board of directors. Chairman - The highest officer of an organized group such as a board, committee, or deliberative assembly. The person holding the office is typically elected or appointed by the members of the group. The chairman presides over meetings of the assembled group and conducts its business in an orderly fashion. When the group is not in session, the officer's duties often include acting as its head, its representative to the outside world and its spokesperson. Like i said before, im trying to understand the BU and supporters like yourselves. Really, I am. But what I dont get is that Bill is being made the scapegoat. Im starting to accept that the board is responsible for our current state. Genuine question, how many of the board were there before BK took over as chairman? The only major change i can think of is Elstone for Wyness (im not sure on this). "To be a good chairman, you do need to have the same skill set as a CEO as a base. You have to have the leadership skills, the focus, the ability to build a team - all of those typical CEO skills are also important for a chairman. As with a CEO, a chairman also needs to be a strategic thinker about the business, and have an ability to set and achieve goals." He is not solely to blame, the other characters hiding behind him with their empty pockets can get out. Whatever you try and defend him with his has presided over a club in decline, we have mortgages coming out of our ears that he secured and he doesn't know where £24m of our operating costs goes.... I think he does. Very much so. http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/business/boardroom.asp bit of a history there - Lord Grancheter makes interesting reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Does anybody know much about Lord Granchester/Kenwright's relationship? I've heard they don't get on - true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 "To be a good chairman, you do need to have the same skill set as a CEO as a base. You have to have the leadership skills, the focus, the ability to build a team - all of those typical CEO skills are also important for a chairman. As with a CEO, a chairman also needs to be a strategic thinker about the business, and have an ability to set and achieve goals." He is not solely to blame, the other characters hiding behind him with their empty pockets can get out. Whatever you try and defend him with his has presided over a club in decline, we have mortgages coming out of our ears that he secured and he doesn't know where £24m of our operating costs goes.... I think he does. Very much so. http://www.toffeeweb...s/boardroom.asp bit of a history there - Lord Grancheter makes interesting reading not sayin you're wrong but where is your evidence for that? part of the problem i have with the kenwright out bunch or whatever is if he says summat then half the time he isn't believed which is why i think he keeps quiet and doesn't tell everyone like these guys said he should all the time...he'd get slated for bein a liar if he says summat they don't agree with...he should know where that money is going cos it's a shed load of money that shouldn't be unaccounted for and specialist in finance or not he should be in the know of where it is..but to say he doesn't and won't say is ignorant if you're not sure of it and makes me think half the people who want him gone just don't listen to both sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 not sayin you're wrong but where is your evidence for that? part of the problem i have with the kenwright out bunch or whatever is if he says summat then half the time he isn't believed which is why i think he keeps quiet and doesn't tell everyone like these guys said he should all the time...he'd get slated for bein a liar if he says summat they don't agree with...he should know where that money is going cos it's a shed load of money that shouldn't be unaccounted for and specialist in finance or not he should be in the know of where it is..but to say he doesn't and won't say is ignorant if you're not sure of it and makes me think half the people who want him gone just don't listen to both sides Problem is Marco, he has been given opportunities galore to come out and say something, when he does, he has no preparation and no clear knowledge of what is going on at the club. He is way way way out of his depth, always has been. The only solution is for the club to be sold and the comical ICI scenario does not fill me with any confidence whatsoever. Sell a club? Understand what your outgoings are, how can he price our club? He doesn't even know which line the operating costs were, absolutely terrifying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 i agree he doesn't seem the best man to sell the club despite what he says..but you can't call him a liar when he answers the questions it then seems like you aren't interested in the other side of the coin which then makes me think i don't even wanna know what you have to say...that's not a personal jibe i mean in general..discredits your opinions in my eyes when you just dismiss what he says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I think bill has been completely honest and truthful here, the problem is the truth and honesty show a man who doesn't really understand what's happening around him. The truth is much scarier than the rumour. To quote a few good men "we want the truth!" "you can't handle the truth!" Right now, I can't handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 That interview has actually disgusted me for a few of reasons. For starters its fairly clear that Kenwright doesnt actually have much of a clue about what is happening. For most of the main questions, his repsonses are 'I dont know'. How the fuck can you not know where roughly a 1/4 of your debt goes?(I dont for one second think it lines his or any of the boards pockets btw) Why havent you tried to get feedback from previous potential investors to find the stumbling blocks of buying EFC? I could barely stomach the 'there isnt enough money in the world' shite! WTF does that mean? Plus the way he completely dismissed the two recent Premier League sales, although I too wouldnt be keen on the dodgy Blackburn sale! With Elstone we get clear, direct and to the point answers, with Bill we get a lot of wishy washy pantomime answers. Its also fairly clear to see he hasnt looked into the other stadium options either, and it came across like he had no ambitions to look further into it either. I thought the BU asked a fair amount of irrelevant questions as well. For example it is no right of theirs to be asking about Moyes' contract, or course Bill wants him to stay but would you expect him to tell you (and thus the world) about whether he will sign etc. There are more pressing and concerning questions which should have been much more structured and topics should have been set out. It seems to be all over the place. The one thing I know from that piece is that the last person in the world I would want to sell me Everton FC would be Kenwright, proper businessmen would want to know the facts, all the little ins & outs that BK clearly doesnt know. Yes there is a place for selling the emotion of the club, but I wouldnt trust him to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 With all due respect avinalaff, and I seriously mean this with no insult, given your attitude to taking part over winning (which you are entitled to) I seriously don't think this is the type of thread you want to get involved in. This is the type of politics that a lover of football as opposed to being everton mad needs to ignore. Peteo, did you actually read that?! The man running our club was made to look the incompetent fool that I along with many have thought for some time. Not because he was picked on ffs, he was asked questions that he could not give clear answers to, why? Because despite 11 years in control of the 4th most successful club he has nothing other than a few passionate rebel rousing words to offer. Was interesting to see that he knows f'all about the massive operating costs, or says he knows nothing. Give me any bloke in the street who has a house, regardless of intellect he knows how much money he spends on the mortgage, gas, electricity, sky tv and if daft enough his everton season ticket. He can account for any rises etc, why can't bill? His pitiful, "I don't pay myself a salary, claim fuel, mobile etc" deserved a slap, once he has paid Philip green the money he owes him (unless it's not in the operating costs) will earn many millions more than his initial investment in the club. Seriously sickened reading that. We are dealing with a seriously disillusioned man. I know you think BK is the antichrist but having a pop at him for not taking a salary from the club beggers belief How do you know he is going to make many millions more than his initial investment? He cant even find a buyer so how can you assume that and anyway even if he did so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) I've always been a Bill supporter but for a while i've began to think the fella is either clueless or hanging on for grim death. That transcript if its true is horrendous!! Phillip Green wont buy everton because he thinks women wont shop in his stores in case the red noses ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! i let it go until today when on Sky Sports he comes out and cant even answer a simple question like why havent we been sold he then rambles on about how are the best club in the world etc etc and then changes track!!!! Edited August 18, 2011 by Finn balor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/08/bank_squeezes_blue_half_of_mer.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Writer Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Depressing!! Roll on Saturday when at least we have a match to watch, and hopefully a win to celebrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's interesting watching this unfold. I've read four different articles in four different newspapers and each focuses on something... well.. different. Don't kill us this season, debt-ridden Everton tell the bankers | Mail Online Liverpool Everton news John Henry willing to discuss ground-share says Goodison counterpart Bill Kenwright - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk Everton chairman Bill Kenwright begs the bank not 'to kill' the club as leaked minutes expose financial plight - Telegraph Everton must sell Jagielka, bank tells club - Transfers, Football - The Independent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemist Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Tbh i think its the worst thing that could have happened at the worst possible time this whole thing gone public!! The media are having a field day us........ I see big trouble ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Derek Hatton tweeted last night that he wasnt happy with the BU after they released this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 More coverage: Toffees in financial turmoil - Premier League, Soccer - Independent.ie Dave Prentice: Keith Harris – a man whose modus operandi is nothing to write home about - News - Everton FC - Liverpool Echo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Derek Hatton tweeted last night that he wasnt happy with the BU after they released this. I saw that, it was retweeted by the club too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Tbh i think its the worst thing that could have happened at the worst possible time this whole thing gone public!! The media are having a field day us........ I see big trouble ahead The media may be reporting it, but they're only using small extracts. It's not as embarrassing as it could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemist Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 The media may be reporting it, but they're only using small extracts. It's not as embarrassing as it could have been. True, but pandoras box is now open I wonder what the players make of this knowing that there's a strong possibility one or more of the big guns could be sold!! Id now settle for no incoming transfers if it meant there were no outgoings with exceptions of the ones we want to sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 also..would new players want to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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