Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 My opinion is it was recorded. Am I okay with that? Yes. Interesting to see that we are paying £1.3m interest charge to someone who looks like they are a shareholder in the club, a nice fat 10%. Good to see the club isn't being screwed much more than it already has been.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I posted above about listening to iPlayer, for some reason the link no longer works. Some are saying it's because of the Everton callers' accusations and BBC have took it down, all sounds very strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 With all due respect Ste....bollocks. They called it a transcript and that's exactly what it is....denying it is laughable. in all these years you have never taken that tone with me Michael! I've not said I dont think it was recorded, I was just posting what they had said. Do I think it was recorded? Yes. Do I think it should have been, yes. I think it should have been recorded by both parties, if anyone goes into organised conversation with someone who has been calling you out publicly, its negligent not to record it even to cover your own arse. Do I think Bill also recorded it? Damn right I do. They knew these lads would be asking tough questions and Bill should have had it recorded just incase it got slanderous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't think bill recorded it. Not in his nature, and that's not a compliment. It's a view that we have someone at the helm who is clearly not savvy enough to be prepared. I think he believes he can use his patter to get out of any situation, those days are gone. It's not about selling his love for the club, it's about influencing people to trust that he knows what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 in all these years you have never taken that tone with me Michael! I've not said I dont think it was recorded, I was just posting what they had said. What I meant was that them claiming that they'd not recorded it was bollocks....if I'd been addressing the comment at you I'd have been polite and said "testicles." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 It doesn't look like the Echo will report it, from Greg O'Keeffe (Everton correspondent): "do you think the club is likely to openly discuss their finances with the media in the current climate?" http://twitter.com/GregOK/statuses/105755663241715713 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 This is how the Echo reported it: Websites which are unpoliced and not subject to the legal and journalistic boundaries which govern the printed press have the capability to whip up the masses into, at best, indignation, at worst outright anger. The latest conspiracy, presented as fact, concerns a £13m loan taken out by Everton from one of their own directors. The loan came from the Vibrac Corporation based in the British Virgin Islands, which is also a business address used by Robert Earl. Hence some fans putting two and two together and making five. The facts are far less sinister. The loan is not a new loan. And Robert Earl, or anybody even remotely connected to him, is not the lender. It’s a renewal of the same loan Everton have had in place for the past two seasons. The old one is paid back every year and a new one is taken out. Everton have used a different lender this season because they offer a better rate. The loan is £14m and is absolutely not an increase in borrowing. Bang goes that conspiracy theory. But there are plenty more. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/08/26/david-prentice-everton-fc-fans-need-fighting-spirit-not-brawling-in-the-stands-100252-29305331/3/#ixzz1WAXKpKC8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 This is how the Echo reported it: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2011/08/26/david-prentice-everton-fc-fans-need-fighting-spirit-not-brawling-in-the-stands-100252-29305331/3/#ixzz1WAXKpKC8 That word "absolutely" ring any bells........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 It's irked me, I think that the Echo should be reporting things in greater depth than they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 It's irked me, I think that the Echo should be reporting things in greater depth than they do. To be honest they have become a joke of a read. Since the club censored them for running a series of articles they have come out with appalling articles that have really riled some readers based on the replies. The echo were a major mouthpiece for the spirit of shankly. Maybe if the people group were called the spirit of Dixie mr prentice would show a little more interest (after all he was his wife's grand dad). Clearly it isn't about that though, everton play second fiddle to Liverpool on so many fronts. When major newspapers and journos spend more time and thought on everton articles than the local rag, it tells you all you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 in all these years you have never taken that tone with me Michael! I've not said I dont think it was recorded, I was just posting what they had said. Do I think it was recorded? Yes. Do I think it should have been, yes. I think it should have been recorded by both parties, if anyone goes into organised conversation with someone who has been calling you out publicly, its negligent not to record it even to cover your own arse. Do I think Bill also recorded it? Damn right I do. They knew these lads would be asking tough questions and Bill should have had it recorded just incase it got slanderous. Yeh Im with this. It would be pure naivety on both sides if they didn't record it. I'm not sure why BU are denying. Having said that they are obviously no issues with the content as otherwise Everton's lawyers would have been all over them by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Given the media reaction to it, they would be very silly not to have recorded it. I do have some moral reservations about it, however given the way the club use underhand ways to censor the fans (banners etc) then i'm ok with it. One way or another, it is fair to say that anyone interested in buying a football club should well and truly know we are ripe for a bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 That echo article was just a waste of a few minutes of my life. And the poor lad who's dad had his seat number printed, think he might get a bit of stick on his next visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 It's irked me, I think that the Echo should be reporting things in greater depth than they do. Ironically Louis - reporting things in greater depth - how's about: "He has a season ticket in the Lower Gwladys Street, seat number KK92. The fighting began when some idiots shouting for the sacking of first the Board, then the Chairman, then of all things, the sacking of David Moyes." I think Mr Prentice maybe should have thought about including that fine detail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 That echo article was just a waste of a few minutes of my life. And the poor lad who's dad had his seat number printed, think he might get a bit of stick on his next visit. Beat me to it. The poor lad is gonna get ripped to shreds at best. Possibly threatened unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Guardian report on it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/sep/19/everton-broadcast-income-mortgage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Having read that article it look as though we have sold the family silver to the devil. I am very uncomfortable with this news, as it looks like it could spell a lot of trouble in the future. OK we didn't have the money to make signings this summer. But we could have managed next summer, now it looks like we are going into even more debt to get money which we can not spend on players as the window is now closed anyway. It is like buying a house and giving it to someone else and hoping they don't evict you. Madness IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 BBC Radio 5 are now reporting it on their news too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 BBC North West tonight reported it too.. Why's it taken so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azz Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Clubs reply to the reports http://www.evertonfc.com//news/archive/2011/09/20/officials-confirm-no-new-lending? Following a newspaper report earlier today, Everton Chief Executive Robert Elstone said: "Let's be absolutely clear about this. There has been no new lending at Goodison this summer. "For the third consecutive season we have advanced a relatively small amount of next season's TV money. "Each season the amount is repaid in full and then the loan is repeated at the same level, with no increase in overall debt levels. This is a very familiar source of finance to football clubs. He added: "We were pleased this summer to find a lender able to offer us better terms than previously." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What he doesn't mention is that it costs over a million each time in arrangement fees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 What he doesn't mention is that it costs over a million each time in arrangement fees! Any time Elstone uses the word "absolutely" which is all the time, I tend to view the next thing he says as spin: "Today is absolutely about us, talking to our fans, updating you on the things that we believe are important to you, it’s also important that we listen, indeed, I guess, attacking it straight head on" "And my belief absolutely is that there has been, the last 6 or seven years has seen continued support for David Moyes" "I am of the absolute opinion that the shareholders are not asking too much money for their football club and that is abso"lutely not the reason that Everton hasn’t been sold, but what value is a private matter and a matter for those shareholders," "There is a network of people who are absolutely working on selling Everton Football Club, and will continue to do it." Re parkend: I am absolutely convinced that the new development will go ahead and we are working day in day out to make sure it happens. "As a board we absolutely realise that we have to support David Moyes in the transfer market," Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Don't shoot me for this BUT... The reason something doesn't sell - ultimately is price. Since we know 'football clubs' are wanted - it's not like you're selling a product that doesn't work... other similar products have sold. It's CLEARLY price. Now, of course there are 'issues' with Everton e.g. the debt, the ground and more.... but that's still ultimately coming down to price again. Market conditions are not favourable - that's true - it makes selling your house tricky, but you WILL sell it if you offer it at the true market value, or a little below. What appears to be happening as that they aren't getting the price THEY think it's worth. So of course, you can keep holding out and you might get what you want in the end, but the market doesn't lie - no buyers = nobody wants it. What Bill needs to realise is - whoever wants to buy is almost certainly looking at how to get a return on their investment. It's one thing to buy Everton at (say 100 million, and taking on all the debt too) - it's quite another to then say "the only way I can take the club forward financially is a new stadium, and that's another 200 million (twice what I paid for the whole club!) It's only like me looking at a house. If I just want to live in a house and like one at 100K that's fine. But if I'm a property developer, I'm looking at what it's going to take to make it attractive to tennants (sponsors/fans/tv). You're a top 10 supported team, quite possibly top 6 depending how far back you want to go with the attendances. You've got a decent revenue that's top 10. Your player wages are below the top 10 (thereabouts) so there's nothing extreme in your spending or income compared with other clubs. Where it's ALL going tits up is the off field commercial activities. You're slacking. Dare I say, getting left behind / overtaken. Now it's SOMEONE's job at Everton to taking care of that. It's boring, it's not players, it's not football, but it's a LOT of money. Of course, some the commercial activity involves players - marquee signings / image rights etc For the last 10 years, pardon my French here - you've been fannying about over a stadium and missed the bloody boat. I know it's not all Everton's fault this... the council have been wonderfully obstructive too, and you've been trapped in a cycle of "need a stadium to make money vs need money to make a stadium". BK could have foreseen this to some extent, but didn't look to get in a buyer back then - he was happy to be running the show during the financial glory years (for football in general). Now times are hard, and the boat missed and realised he's steered you (unwittingly) down a dead end - he's finding it hard to sell. You do have to blame BK for a lot of it - however well intentioned. Let's not forget that Liverpool also have found it hard to compete of late. Arsenal bought a new stadium, AND invested in property around the ground, from which they are now reaping the rewards - higher revenue than Man U Manchester United are a bit of a phenomenon anyway, and command more revenue than they would normally be expected to have due to exceptional worldwide appeal (and CL success etc etc) Chelsea's revenue has grown incredibly thanks to being bankrolled to buy superstars which in turn has made them a commercial 'success' (albeit from the bankrolling) Manchester City just got incredibly lucky TWICE - snatching a new stadium on the cheap and only spending 30 million on converting it for football (and rev sharing with the council) and on a site that was dump - and prime for development. Along comes some Arabs looking to make a name for themselves, looking at which club might work for them... and they spot some poorly performing outfit with a good fan base, new stadium!... they can't believe their luck... and spare land around it? acres and acres of it? - so they snap it up. So they did a Chelsea too, and now their revenue's sky rocketing past Everton. It's not Everton the club that's unattractive - it's got all the same ingredients as some of those other clubs. It's that ground. I'm telling ya. I know you all love it. Born and bred in the place. But the folks moving in don't like the decor, don't like what you've done with the place, there's nowhere to land the helicopter, and their snooty investment pals that like sponsoring 'nice' clubs think it's a bit "olde worlde" for them to sponsor - wrong image, so 'retro'. And that is the issue. There's nothing wrong in your nostalgic taste in decor.... but the new buyers are wanting the Magnolia look, and as much as you hate it - it's what the punters are buying. BIG time investors want Magnolia football clubs so they can stamp their brand ALL over it. Everton aren't magnolia - and that's something to be very proud of. But it's coming at one hell of a cost. Edited September 30, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Don't shoot me for this BUT... The reason something doesn't sell - ultimately is price. Since we know 'football clubs' are wanted - it's not like you're selling a product that doesn't work... other similar products have sold. It's CLEARLY price. Now, of course there are 'issues' with Everton e.g. the debt, the ground and more.... but that's still ultimately coming down to price again. Market conditions are not favourable - that's true - it makes selling your house tricky, but you WILL sell it if you offer it at the true market value, or a little below. What appears to be happening as that they aren't getting the price THEY think it's worth. So of course, you can keep holding out and you might get what you want in the end, but the market doesn't lie - no buyers = nobody wants it. What Bill needs to realise is - whoever wants to buy is almost certainly looking at how to get a return on their investment. It's one thing to buy Everton at (say 100 million, and taking on all the debt too) - it's quite another to then say "the only way I can take the club forward financially is a new stadium, and that's another 200 million (twice what I paid for the whole club!) It's only like me looking at a house. If I just want to live in a house and like one at 100K that's fine. But if I'm a property developer, I'm looking at what it's going to take to make it attractive to tennants (sponsors/fans/tv). You're a top 10 supported team, quite possibly top 6 depending how far back you want to go with the attendances. You've got a decent revenue that's top 10. Your player wages are below the top 10 (thereabouts) so there's nothing extreme in your spending or income compared with other clubs. Where it's ALL going tits up is the off field commercial activities. You're slacking. Dare I say, getting left behind / overtaken. Now it's SOMEONE's job at Everton to taking care of that. It's boring, it's not players, it's not football, but it's a LOT of money. Of course, some the commercial activity involves players - marquee signings / image rights etc For the last 10 years, pardon my French here - you've been fannying about over a stadium and missed the bloody boat. I know it's not all Everton's fault this... the council have been wonderfully obstructive too, and you've been trapped in a cycle of "need a stadium to make money vs need money to make a stadium". BK could have foreseen this to some extent, but didn't look to get in a buyer back then - he was happy to be running the show during the financial glory years (for football in general). Now times are hard, and the boat missed and realised he's steered you (unwittingly) down a dead end - he's finding it hard to sell. You do have to blame BK for a lot of it - however well intentioned. Let's not forget that Liverpool also have found it hard to compete of late. Arsenal bought a new stadium, AND invested in property around the ground, from which they are now reaping the rewards - higher revenue than Man U Manchester United are a bit of a phenomenon anyway, and command more revenue than they would normally be expected to have due to exceptional worldwide appeal (and CL success etc etc) Chelsea's revenue has grown incredibly thanks to being bankrolled to buy superstars which in turn has made them a commercial 'success' (albeit from the bankrolling) Manchester City just got incredibly lucky TWICE - snatching a new stadium on the cheap and only spending 30 million on converting it for football (and rev sharing with the council) and on a site that was dump - and prime for development. Along comes some Arabs looking to make a name for themselves, looking at which club might work for them... and they spot some poorly performing outfit with a good fan base, new stadium!... they can't believe their luck... and spare land around it? acres and acres of it? - so they snap it up. So they did a Chelsea too, and now their revenue's sky rocketing past Everton. It's not Everton the club that's unattractive - it's got all the same ingredients as some of those other clubs. It's that ground. I'm telling ya. I know you all love it. Born and bred in the place. But the folks moving in don't like the decor, don't like what you've done with the place, there's nowhere to land the helicopter, and their snooty investment pals that like sponsoring 'nice' clubs think it's a bit "olde worlde" for them to sponsor - wrong image, so 'retro'. And that is the issue. There's nothing wrong in your nostalgic taste in decor.... but the new buyers are wanting the Magnolia look, and as much as you hate it - it's what the punters are buying. BIG time investors want Magnolia football clubs so they can stamp their brand ALL over it. Everton aren't magnolia - and that's something to be very proud of. But it's coming at one hell of a cost. it could also be due to the speculation that as a whole, the club is said to be valued at £30-40m and reports are that BK wants closer to £100m + £40m debt, total aprx £140+m, if that is all true the man is living in cuckoo land. the stadium is a whole other debate entirely, it might be our home but these days personally im glad i live far away and cant get to games anymore as i think the stadium is a mess, and it kills me to have to say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you were depserate to sell something and you were not asking for an unreasonable price - it would be very much in your interests to release that price. Example being a club comparable to us by many ---- Villa: In 2006 Ellis was looking for £5.60 a share placing Villa's price at £57.2m. Guess what - he sold it... what is our asking price.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you were depserate to sell something and you were not asking for an unreasonable price - it would be very much in your interests to release that price. Example being a club comparable to us by many ---- Villa: In 2006 Ellis was looking for £5.60 a share placing Villa's price at £57.2m. Guess what - he sold it... what is our asking price.................. Yep, spot on - if it's the right price it will sell. Regardless of economy... the economy doesn't stop transactions happening, it just means folks don't want to pay so much for stuff anymore. In many ways, if BK said "I don't want to see at this moment, because I think the market is 'down' and it would be in our interests to struggle on for a couple more years until the market picks up" - then fair enough - there's logic to that (however right or wrong the action is). I think a lot of fans get really upset and see it as a slight on their club when people point out the pros and in particularly the cons of a club. People not wanting Everton is sod all to do with the team, or the club per se. If it helps, you could say Everton are like an Alfa Romeo - bit of tradition, nice touch of class - and Villa are a VW Golf - but you try selling both of those cars on the second hand market.... the Gold will sell every time. Awful analogy really, but it helps illustrate how a classy little runner doesn't mean everyone wants to buy you. I have precisely this argument with other fans moaning / wondering why Man City were chosen. They don't seem to understand the value of that ground and just as importantly, all that spare land around it - it's a fantastic blank canvas for the owners to 'build their empire' on. The actual club have little to do with it really. I do have a lot of sympathy for BK's view that it needs to go to the right people, in principle he's totally right. But how you determine the 'right' people is a total gamble really. City got a guy in who we thought would be the perfect answer (Francis Lee) - all the right motives. But his judgment was clouded cos he was a blue - he starting bringing in friends, it all went wrong. We then went for a a foreigner who turned out to be a bit of a wide boy (Frank Sinatra). It was him who flogged us off in a hurry to the Sheik - who so far have proven to be pretty 'tempered' but sharp. We used to be a lovely homely 'shambles' - with the woman at the ticket office having HP sauce on her blouse from the bacon butty she'd just polished off and giving you your tickets with grease prints all over 'em. You could sniff them for a week and it felt like you'd have a full breakfast. But now, it's all very posh and nice clean uniforms etc etc. I miss the old days, but it was no way to run a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 jesus the price argument again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you were depserate to sell something and you were not asking for an unreasonable price - it would be very much in your interests to release that price. Example being a club comparable to us by many ---- Villa: In 2006 Ellis was looking for £5.60 a share placing Villa's price at £57.2m. Guess what - he sold it... what is our asking price.................. fair point but Id say Villa are half the club we are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 jesus the price argument again? A penny for your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 the price argument has been around a while. dont bring it back up lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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