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Romey 1878

Ross Barkley

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On 14/10/2018 at 03:29, rubecula said:

speculation is fine but do not get carried away,  to me he is already irrelevant , he no longer plays for us and probably never will again  unlike Wayne Rooney did.

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Also like Lukaku and Stones a player we have glaringly failed to replace. Watching him play for England tonight he is everything our midfield is missing. Fans can boo and call him a thick cunt all they want, he's the type of player other clubs aim to build a side round, we were too busy pointing out everything he couldn't do. Rinse and repeat with the latest crop of youngsters. 

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6 minutes ago, nogs said:

Also like Lukaku and Stones a player we have glaringly failed to replace. Watching him play for England tonight he is everything our midfield is missing. Fans can boo and call him a thick cunt all they want, he's the type of player other clubs aim to build a side round, we were too busy pointing out everything he couldn't do. Rinse and repeat with the latest crop of youngsters. 

Martinez tried to build a team around him and gave him far too many minutes than he deserved in an effort to make him a better player. In return he shit on his boyhood club running his contract down. 

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22 minutes ago, nogs said:

Also like Lukaku and Stones a player we have glaringly failed to replace. Watching him play for England tonight he is everything our midfield is missing. Fans can boo and call him a thick cunt all they want, he's the type of player other clubs aim to build a side round, we were too busy pointing out everything he couldn't do. Rinse and repeat with the latest crop of youngsters. 

Had a very good game tonight I agree but I think, "everything our midfield is missing" is a stretch. If he played like that more often than not then I'd go along with it but he didn't.

14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Martinez tried to build a team around him and gave him far too many minutes than he deserved in an effort to make him a better player. In return he shit on his boyhood club running his contract down. 

He did and he'll not be forgiven for that wherever his ability takes him.

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10 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Martinez tried to build a team around him and gave him far too many minutes than he deserved in an effort to make him a better player. In return he shit on his boyhood club running his contract down. 

He was publicly criticised by Koeman who showed the extent of his knowledge of football by signing Klaassen as a replacement. He also got abuse from sections of the Goodison crowd that I don't think there's any excuse for any player wearing our shirt to get, let alone a young kid who has come through our ranks. 

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30 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Had a very good game tonight I agree but I think, "everything our midfield is missing" is a stretch. If he played like that more often than not then I'd go along with it but he didn't.

He did and he'll not be forgiven for that wherever his ability takes him.

It's about mutual respect though. Too many fans of this club can't accept young players get better with time, encouragement and freedom to make mistakes. If you're 21 and some bellend (or several dozen) screams 'you're fucking shit you fucking cunt' every time you miss a pass, you end up sticking two fingers up. 

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36 minutes ago, nogs said:

He was publicly criticised by Koeman who showed the extent of his knowledge of football by signing Klaassen as a replacement. He also got abuse from sections of the Goodison crowd that I don't think there's any excuse for any player wearing our shirt to get, let alone a young kid who has come through our ranks. 

Think his mind was already made up before Koeman joined. Which just goes to show how much of a rat he is. We gave everyone a new contract even players like Lukaku with no ties to us signed a new deal so we'd get a better fee for him. 

The abuse Barkley got was minimal given his performances. He was terrible at times and usually only got a few groans. The fans knew he was mentally weak and if anything give him an easier time. 

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I loved Ross one of my favorite players and I’ll freely admit he was very hot and cold.  He was very very lazy when it came to defending, he is not Ronaldo or Messi and yet when the ball went the other way he sure acted like he was.  On his day he was excellent in attack, but those days were not all that often.  The pub fights and stealing girlfriends and gangster friends didn’t help either.  The way he left will alsways leave a sour taste for me.  

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I've chronologically gone through this numerous times....

Martinez was sacked before Barkley contract discussions were due.   His talks were set for the summer - Martinez was sacked in the May.   

Koeman came in and delayed Barkleys contract talks till January 17.  Having issued extensions to Baines, Barry and holgate he said....

"We know it's about 18 months of contract. I think it's not the priority now. Of course, in the new year, we will have talks about his situation and about his future. But the priority now is playing and winning and we will see what happens in January."

In the time from this interview Barkley seemed to be subject to weekly interview beatings by Koeman.  He had already started his disgraceful mismanagement of Niasse which under any other industry would see him In front of HR getting a disciplinary. 

 

So.... whilst I'm not excusing Barkley..... take the 21 year old version of yourself and ask yourself how you would feel? 2 players who's legs were going getting extensions and one who hasn't made it as a regular getting one?   Throw in the level a of shit thrown at him from some fans and the manager exposing him rather than protecting him and he's prime pickings for his agent to turn his head to the money. 

 

Barkley remains an enigma... either brilliant or piss poor.   We have spent somewhere in the region of £90m including wages so far to have 3 players in the squad to do his job. Klaasen, Gylfi and Rooney.   Whilst Gylfi is the better player it's not improbable that Ross would have flourished under Silva. 

Ross has been a nob and the wheels were set in place by Koeman. 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

I've chronologically gone through this numerous times....

Martinez was sacked before Barkley contract discussions were due.   His talks were set for the summer - Martinez was sacked in the May.   

Koeman came in and delayed Barkleys contract talks till January 17.  Having issued extensions to Baines, Barry and holgate he said....

"We know it's about 18 months of contract. I think it's not the priority now. Of course, in the new year, we will have talks about his situation and about his future. But the priority now is playing and winning and we will see what happens in January."

In the time from this interview Barkley seemed to be subject to weekly interview beatings by Koeman.  He had already started his disgraceful mismanagement of Niasse which under any other industry would see him In front of HR getting a disciplinary. 

 

So.... whilst I'm not excusing Barkley..... take the 21 year old version of yourself and ask yourself how you would feel? 2 players who's legs were going getting extensions and one who hasn't made it as a regular getting one?   Throw in the level a of shit thrown at him from some fans and the manager exposing him rather than protecting him and he's prime pickings for his agent to turn his head to the money. 

 

Barkley remains an enigma... either brilliant or piss poor.   We have spent somewhere in the region of £90m including wages so far to have 3 players in the squad to do his job. Klaasen, Gylfi and Rooney.   Whilst Gylfi is the better player it's not improbable that Ross would have flourished under Silva. 

Ross has been a nob and the wheels were set in place by Koeman. 

Agree completely, but I think a lot of the blame goes to Martinez for poor man management. He needed discipline/tough love, not having his arse kissed all the time, or at least a mix of both. He was given free reign without consequence and that meant he was directionless 

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We gave players with longer time on their contacts extensions. Why would we wait for Barkley? He played every week and was on the fringes of the England squad. We reward players with new contracts far too easily imo, we give players who have only been here a year new contracts with better wages only to extend their contract a year more in our favour but it keeps the player happy. Logically it's more likely we offered Barkley one than not.  Would also explain why we brought in replacements in preparation for the inevitable. 

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The Everton manager said: “We will probably look at it in the summer. As I’ve said before, Ross is not a young man any more. He’s a player you can build a project on. When you want to build a project it is about a player who wants to play for Everton and wants to take that role. It is one thing as a manager wanting to do something, if the player doesn’t feel the same way then you cannot do it.

But at the moment we have to concentrate on what we can achieve from now until the end of the season. What you are going to do in the final 12 games of the season will allow you to have a real strong ending, and that’s where the focus is. The FA Cup is another real strong focus for us, and the role of Ross Barkley will be vital to what we can achieve.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract

Why wait until the end of the season when we often have players renew in year? 

Why add the caveat you can only build the team around a player if he's willing. Says to me that Martinez already knew Barkley had his head turned. 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract

Martinez confirmed he was confident Barkley would sign a new contract in Feb 16 but it wasn't going to be discussed till that summer with the other players.  That he was looking to build the team around him. Barkley wanted to stay.... he played his best football under Martinez.   Martinez never made it to the summer.

Koeman picked on barkley and it almost seemed personal - like mourinho on shaw.   Barkley was on £60k...  Koeman started the ball rolling to a debacle that meant we lost a £40m+ asset for peanuts cos he is a bully.  He showed what he is about with niasse and apparently did the same shit at Valencia. 

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I’d have loved to see him stay, between mismanagement and abuse from the stands that often left me baffled, I don’t blame him for leaving. 

He will go on to be a very good player, maybe not world class, but don’t doubt how good he could have been for us.

The worst thing to happen to Ross was the flashes of brilliance, they set the standards that he couldn’t hit every week leading to ridiculous expectations. If he didn’t beat two players and put it in the top bin there was booing. If he turned sideways and played a simple pass there were boos. If he lost the ball trying something there was booing. The lad couldn’t win at times. Shame really. 

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4 hours ago, hafnia said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract

Martinez confirmed he was confident Barkley would sign a new contract in Feb 16 but it wasn't going to be discussed till that summer with the other players.  That he was looking to build the team around him. Barkley wanted to stay.... he played his best football under Martinez.   Martinez never made it to the summer.

Koeman picked on barkley and it almost seemed personal - like mourinho on shaw.   Barkley was on £60k...  Koeman started the ball rolling to a debacle that meant we lost a £40m+ asset for peanuts cos he is a bully.  He showed what he is about with niasse and apparently did the same shit at Valencia. 

That's the article I put. 

What do you expect the manager to say. Tell the public he's refusing a contact which only does two things, lower his value and get the fans on his back.

If Ross' head wasn't already thinking elsewhere why would the manager add the bit about the player needing to want be at Everton to be part of the project. 

Also why would we offer other players contacts and not Barkley, Barkley who was starting every week and clearly fancied by the manager. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

That's the article I put. 

What do you expect the manager to say. Tell the public he's refusing a contact which only does two things, lower his value and get the fans on his back.

If Ross' head wasn't already thinking elsewhere why would the manager add the bit about the player needing to want be at Everton to be part of the project. 

Also why would we offer other players contacts and not Barkley, Barkley who was starting every week and clearly fancied by the manager. 

But conversely if the manager said "He doesn't want to sign" you would believe him and not think there was anything more to it???  How many ways do you want it?

What isn'tt beyond dispute is koeman singled him out regularly. The fans gave him shit and he left.  As I said on many occasions - if he was my son and even as an Evertonian I would struggle to advise him to stay.   

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39 minutes ago, hafnia said:

But conversely if the manager said "He doesn't want to sign" you would believe him and not think there was anything more to it???  How many ways do you want it?

What isn'tttt beyond dispute is koeman singled him out regularly. The fans gave him shit and he left.  As I said on many occasions - if he was my son and even as an Evertonian I would struggle to advise him to stay.   

No idea what your point is or how it addresses why a manager would add the extra about the player having to want to be here or the club gave other players with more time on their contacts extensions. 

Just like your Alladyce and Lukaku arguments you use anything you can to paint your picture. Most likely Barkley wanted out and Koeman wasn't happy with his work rate. The fans gave him more patience than most and he threw it their face. To use the booh boys is laughable, he's been supported through two injuries by the club and given more minutes than he deserves to help make him a better player as he had potential, potential recognised by the fans who all sang he a diamond. What other player got so much support from the fans rather than a groan when they were poor? What's he given back to the club that supported him? 

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You are saying that the manager isn'tt necessarily telling the truth because that doesn't fit your agenda.   You have absolutely zero credibility to disgruntle anyone's arguments when it comes to matters like this - your gana gueye posts go in a hall of fame of complete and utter delusional toxic bullshit.  Worst player to pull on a blue shirt and you have stuck to that.... laughable.  How can anyone take anything you say as being balanced? 

You are the only person on here who thinks allardyce should have been given time and that's how you like it..... makes you feel special....

Barkley had songs about him being a diamond eh?  Yeah... abusive husbands buy their wives flowers and chocolates - does that mean you ignore the fact that their poor wives are treading on eggshells 90% of the time.  You can ignore the fact that Barkley used to get shouted out as being "fuckin shit you lad" when taking a corner.... that's if you want to.  

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2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

He’s got some real talent around him now at Chelsea and a manager playing attacking ball and he still isn’t showing anything more than what we’ve seen.

That’s the point, what is it you are expecting to see from him?

What we saw was an exceptional footballer who had flashes of brilliance. We expected him to be world class, but we saw his level. He keeps possession, he can drag you 20 yards up the pitch and he scores the odd goal. He isn’t up to much defensively. That is what Chelsea bought, they aren’t expecting more and now the pressure of expectation is off his back and he’s enjoying his football.

He was the finished article before he left, but we wanted more more more, he didn’t have more to give. That was his, and our, biggest problem. 

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6 hours ago, hafnia said:

 

You are saying that the manager isn'ttt necessarily telling the truth because that doesn't fit your agenda.   You have absolutely zero credibility to disgruntle anyone's arguments when it comes to matters like this - your gana gueye posts go in a hall of fame of complete and utter delusional toxic bullshit.  Worst player to pull on a blue shirt and you have stuck to that.... laughable.  How can anyone take anything you say as being balanced? 

You are the only person on here who thinks allardyce should have been given time and that's how you like it..... makes you feel special....

Barkley had songs about him being a diamond eh?  Yeah... abusive husbands buy their wives flowers and chocolates - does that mean you ignore the fact that their poor wives are treading on eggshells 90% of the time.  You can ignore the fact that Barkley used to get shouted out as being "fuckin shit you lad" when taking a corner.... that's if you want to.  

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

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16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

Sorry, but none of them got close to the level of stick Barkley did, closest being Martina. 

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3 hours ago, StevO said:

That’s the point, what is it you are expecting to see from him?

What we saw was an exceptional footballer who had flashes of brilliance. We expected him to be world class, but we saw his level. He keeps possession, he can drag you 20 yards up the pitch and he scores the odd goal. He isn’t up to much defensively. That is what Chelsea bought, they aren’t expecting more and now the pressure of expectation is off his back and he’s enjoying his football.

He was the finished article before he left, but we wanted more more more, he didn’t have more to give. That was his, and our, biggest problem. 

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Zero creditability? You're the one who references things and then ignores several request for a link aa proof, oh and let's not get into your neighbours dog walkers best friend just happening to know the ins and outs of the club Billy. 

The manager added extra. Why would he add the tidbit about if the player wants to be here? But no can't be that Barkley is a selfish cunt as that doesn't fit your agenda against Koeman. Koeman is gone and nothing to do with Barkley as much as you want to force it. 

Abuse wise Lukaku got more and signed a contract. Towards the end after it was obvious he was gone it got a bit nasty but before that he only ever got the odd groan. Tom Davies gets worse. Martina got worse. Both were putting in better shifts than Barkley as was Lukaku. 

Talking absolute shite as per norm....  Billy Bullshit.....  More like Delusional Dick.   Ever been wrong in your life? Silly question. 

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4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

But even Gazza didn’t do that every week. Gerrard didn’t score a 25 yarder every week. Rooney didn’t smash a volley in the top bin each week. 

Exoectation is the issue. For me Ross didn’t need to be a number ten, just a midfielder that sometimes does something exceptional. The demand to do something every game is beyond him, but look at Hazard along side him, he is the level of a player who does it each week. That’s world class level. Ross is just a very good level of footballer, not world class. 

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14 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Honestly ste I loved Ross and thought given the right squad and players he could be more consistent and really grow into that number 10 free role like he did with Martinez but take it up a couple notches.  I didn’t think he hit his ceiling.  Now I’m realizing he did hit his ceiling and That’s the best he’s got.  Which surprises me, when he makes those driving runs and the ball is just glued to his foot and he’s passing guys and his balance is like that of a dancer just so gracefully he’s gliding by them.  Those were honestly magical to watch, I’m sad that they are outliers and not a regularity I guess is what I’m trying to say.

The top and bottom of it is loads of fans had him as a better version of Steven Gerrard before he ever got going.

 

I was genuinely excited about him when he first burst on the scene in the game against QPR where he ran the show.  A few ganes later he played against Blackburn- had a poor 10 minutes and moyes subbed him.  He never really got over that for some time.  Was loaned out to play for clubs like Leeds and sheff wed and their players weren't on the same wavelength.  Moyes bought him back back later him out wide where he was ineffective. Like Rodwell before him.... one of moyes traits that pissed me off tbh

The next season he finally got a game in his best role versus arsenal and ran the game and moyes didn't really like it cos he didn't trust him.

After that he had a great period under Martinez- the dino Hodgson ruined him in the world cup by picking on him.  And after that Martinez built him back up before getting sacked.

 

A very very good player on his day who when not on his game needs hooking off asap. Very similar to Gomes in my opinion.  We should have secured him here.... fans got off his back and kept getting mentors like Gareth Barry for him. 

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48 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Talking absolute shite as per norm....  Billy Bullshit.....  More like Delusional Dick.   Ever been wrong in your life? Silly question. 

Still waiting for you to address the points. Hold your hand up you can't stand Koeman and got your eye wiped over a player who gives even less fucks about the club than that inept manager. 

Billy bullshit is you. Delusional? Wow really comprehensive response to the perfectly valid points I highlighted. If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier. I feel sorry for all these ex pros and their gardeners who have to put up with you down the pub. 

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

Sorry, but none of them got close to the level of stick Barkley did, closest being Martina. 

Based on what? Davies can't even misplace a pass without half the stadium groaning. Does my head in, Gana fucks up a much easier pass with very little said (well up until the last few couple of months). 

Martina was solid enough under Alladyce and far from our worst performer yet still got called a clown at every move. 

The Lukaku abuse was that of a jilted lover, fans abused him as they knew he was on the move. Little did they know he was more loyal to the club that the boyhood diamond. 

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17 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Based on what? Davies can't even misplace a pass without half the stadium groaning. Does my head in, Gana fucks up a much easier pass with very little said (well up until the last few couple of months). 

Martina was solid enough under Alladyce and far from our worst performer yet still got called a clown at every move. 

The Lukaku abuse was that of a jilted lover, fans abused him as they knew he was on the move. Little did they know he was more loyal to the club that the boyhood diamond. 

Based on what I saw, heard and read. 

I agree that Martinas criticism was OTT, but it still didn’t come close to the hatred directed towards Barkley. 

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Barkley got stick more because he wouldn’t sign a new contract before or after his injury than how he was playing, in hindsight because of the dirty tricks on how he left the club he got off lightly. 

Not interested in how he plays now but hopefully it’s more poor than good for who ever it is  

But what won’t change for me is he is still a wanker who was involved in stitching the club up that gave him his opportunity  

 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Still waiting for you to address the points. Hold your hand up you can't stand Koeman and got your eye wiped over a player who gives even less fucks about the club than that inept manager. 

Billy bullshit is you. Delusional? Wow really comprehensive response to the perfectly valid points I highlighted. If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier. I feel sorry for all these ex pros and their gardeners who have to put up with you down the pub. 

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD. 

 

Can't stand Koeman?  Correct- nauseating prick who never wanted to be here... money was his master like the fat brown envelope grabbing tit allardyce. How's that for an answer? 

Had my eye wiped?  By Barkley?  I still see him as I always did. A bit daft - lacks sense but a nice kid and a great talent on his day. If koeman never behaved like the big alpha male that he thought he was and behaved like a manager with sense and a duty to the interests of the club he would have treated him better. 

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39 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Barkley got stick more because he wouldn’t sign a new contract before or after his injury than how he was playing, in hindsight because of the dirty tricks on how he left the club he got off lightly. 

Not interested in how he plays now but hopefully it’s more poor than good for who ever it is  

But what won’t change for me is he is still a wanker who was involved in stitching the club up that gave him his opportunity  

 

Not true palfy. He was getting stick way before then. Leon osman actually got interviewed about it with Barkley sat next to him. Osman himself got loads of shit from time to time. 

It's something ridiculous our fans do.  I seen it when Rooney played for us at 17 vs Charlton in a game Scott Parker bossed. Nothing like what Barkley got but it was a one off game where Wayne was pretty poor. 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Not true palfy. He was getting stick way before then. Leon osman actually got interviewed about it with Barkley sat next to him. Osman himself got loads of shit from time to time. 

It's something ridiculous our fans do.  I seen it when Rooney played for us at 17 vs Charlton in a game Scott Parker bossed. Nothing like what Barkley got but it was a one off game where Wayne was pretty poor. 

He probably was Haf from time to time but not with the same venom as his last 18 months when it was obvious he was stalling on whether he was going to sign a new contract.

He wasn't driven from the club by the supporters or the management he was driven in the end by money, not what you would expect from one of our own.

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The whole fans giving stick unless you ban noise in the stadium it will always be there.  There are stupid and drunk people everywhere and the players need to learn to tune it out.  I played many sports in high school and when I was “in the game” I can tell you I never heard a single fan.  Not even my parents yelling for me.  Hell sometimes I didn’t even hear the coach!  Singular focus on the match and that’s it.  If a young MJB can do it surely a pro can.  So I don’t see that as an issue honestly, part of sport.

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7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

The whole fans giving stick unless you ban noise in the stadium it will always be there.  There are stupid and drunk people everywhere and the players need to learn to tune it out.  I played many sports in high school and when I was “in the game” I can tell you I never heard a single fan.  Not even my parents yelling for me.  Hell sometimes I didn’t even hear the coach!  Singular focus on the match and that’s it.  If a young MJB can do it surely a pro can.  So I don’t see that as an issue honestly, part of sport.

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

Exactly this, he may be focused while the game is flowing, but when his shot goes over the bar and the boos come out as he’s walking back into position he would have heard them. It’s not like it was one fella shouting on his own, it was thousands.  

Also he doesn’t have that aggression that a lot of young lads from Liverpool have, that bit of an edge about him. Not got any nasty in him, if that makes sense.

May come from being raised by a single Mum with along with his sister, I’m not sure, but it could have been a factor in his mentality on the pitch. I could be completely wrong though. I think a male instills a different part of your personality. I’m certainly part of my mum and dad, I know my sister is the same. Maybe I’m thinking too much about it. 

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7 hours ago, Matt said:

It is a part of sport, but the scale of pressure and people would’ve been massively different mate. He started at 18 on a world stage in front of 35k fans who expected him to be the saviour. I really hope you didn’t get a 10000th of the abuse he got (actually wish you hadn’t gotten any !)

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

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22 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

Money has absolutely nothing to do with it, and just because the abuse happens everywhere doesn’t mean it doesn’t count! 

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17 hours ago, hafnia said:

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD. 

 

Can't stand Koeman?  Correct- nauseating prick who never wanted to be here... money was his master like the fat brown envelope grabbing tit allardyce. How's that for an answer? 

Had my eye wiped?  By Barkley?  I still see him as I always did. A bit daft - lacks sense but a nice kid and a great talent on his day. If koeman never behaved like the big alpha male that he thought he was and behaved like a manager with sense and a duty to the interests of the club he would have treated him better. 

What's the relevance? And you already know the answer, I've answered it numerous times before. What's the point in me wasting time repeating myself? Talking of repeating myself, what Martinez added raises questions, you've not addressed that or why the club renewed other players contracts three times of asking.

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19 hours ago, pete0 said:

If people don't nod and agree you get louder and nastier.

 

18 hours ago, hafnia said:

"Still waiting".... thats rich. Is gana the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Answer that. ANSWER IT! COWARD. 

 

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

What's the relevance? And you already know the answer, I've answered it numerous times before. What's the point in me wasting time repeating myself? Talking of repeating myself, what Martinez added raises questions, you've not addressed that or why the club renewed other players contracts three times of asking.

I answer all questions Pete....  why did the club extend Barry Holgate & Baines? Because they clearly offered them contracts and they signed them.  They never said in any part that they offered Ross a contract and he rejected it....Martinez said it would be discussed in the summer and added that Barkley is a player to build a team around but he has to want to be there for that to happen.... make of that what you will.

Koeman came in and said they would look at Barkleys contract in the new year.... after a sustained period of persecution. Of which Barkley never signed....  They are the facts..... 

Now is Gana Gueye the worst player to wear a blue shirt? Answer it. Don't tell me you've answered it before..... you tell us that the worst player to play for Everton is Gana Gueye... I would be fine if you said he isn'ttt and that you exaggerated.  It would be cleansing for you.  Imagine the first time you admit you were wrong?

 

It's not about shouting and being nasty Pete.... nearly every person on here has been big enough from time to time to admit they got something wrong..... your desire to be right, to be niche is all encompassing and ruins what could be some decent posts and threads. 

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2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

montenegro are real world beaters, top notch team there.  watch out world cup

You can only beat who's put in front of you. 11 v 11 every time, much as people like to belittle the "minnows" anyone who plays international football for any country is a lot better than any of us ever were.

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8 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

I don’t mean to sound like a dick Mark, but if you’ve not been stood in Goodison listening to a local kid get abused like this I don’t think you’ll understand where the likes of me, Matt and Haf are coming from. 

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18 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

he was getting paid more than i will likely ever make in a salary in my life, and he was 18, i was playing for free.  i am not for the abuse, i think it's horrendous.  but the way the system works is those neanderthals paid for a ticket and can yell and scream at the players if they want to.  every club has those fans, so to act like that is to blame is missing the point, they are everywhere, so it's a moot point.  koeman/martinez, contract treatment sure that's debatable, but the fans yelling things is not in my opinion.  there is no safe place stadium in the UK or probably even the world, unless its a closed doors match.  

Paying for a ticket does not entitle you to scream abuse, that's a horrible argument. Were Montenegro fans justified in aiming monkey chants at England players just coz they bought a ticket? Where's the line? 

Football is used as an excuse by dickheads to act like dickheads. Yeah it's always been like that, but it doesn't mean you have to sit on your hands and accept it. 

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Back to Barkley - I'd say his two performances for England in recent days just prove how shortsighted and stupid the Goodison boo boys were with him (as if any further proof was needed). A bit of time, a bit of maturity, a bit of support, and you've got a real player. Similar story with the England fans who booed Sterling at Euro 2016 - look at him now. I struggle to understand the level of stupidity it takes to boo or scream abuse at a young talented player on your team for making mistakes tbh. It's not a difficult concept - get behind them and give encouragement, they flourish. Throw abuse at them for not being Lionel Messi, they shrink into their shell and you see more and more inconsistency. You don't beat people into being better at anything. 

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4 hours ago, hafnia said:

I answer all questions Pete....  why did the club extend Barry Holgate & Baines? Because they clearly offered them contracts and they signed them.  They never said in any part that they offered Ross a contract and he rejected it....Martinez said it would be discussed in the summer and added that Barkley is a player to build a team around but he has to want to be there for that to happen.... make of that what you will.

Koeman came in and said they would look at Barkleys contract in the new year.... after a sustained period of persecution. Of which Barkley never signed....  They are the facts..... 

Now is Gana Gueye the worst player to wear a blue shirt? Answer it. Don't tell me you've answered it before..... you tell us that the worst player to play for Everton is Gana Gueye... I would be fine if you said he isn'tttt and that you exaggerated.  It would be cleansing for you.  Imagine the first time you admit you were wrong?

 

It's not about shouting and being nasty Pete.... nearly every person on here has been big enough from time to time to admit they got something wrong..... your desire to be right, to be niche is all encompassing and ruins what could be some decent posts and threads. 

You've still not addressed it. 'make of that as you will' I've told you my interpretation. I'm asking why you'd dispute it, why a manager would add the extra. 

You say we clearly offered the others contracts yet offer no reason why we wouldn't have offered Barkley one. What is it that makes you so sure Barkley wasn't offered one? He was clearly favoured by the manager and the club has form for improving contacts way before they are up. 

See my posts in the Gana thread directly in response to you. That's the last I'm gonna respond your petty demand. Notice you do this sort of thing, try and waste someone's time as if that then makes you feel like you've 'won'. 

I fully explain my arguments and the logic I'm using. Even if you don't agree you can see where I'm coming from. As much can't be said about your arguments, well unless you read between the lines as the only explanation I can see for you Barkley argument is because you don't like Koeman. 

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6 hours ago, pete0 said:

You've still not addressed it. 'make of that as you will' I've told you my interpretation. I'm asking why you'd dispute it, why a manager would add the extra. 

You say we clearly offered the others contracts yet offer no reason why we wouldn't have offered Barkley one. What is it that makes you so sure Barkley wasn't offered one? He was clearly favoured by the manager and the club has form for improving contacts way before they are up. 

See my posts in the Gana thread directly in response to you. That's the last I'm gonna respond your petty demand. Notice you do this sort of thing, try and waste someone's time as if that then makes you feel like you've 'won'. 

I fully explain my arguments and the logic I'm using. Even if you don't agree you can see where I'm coming from. As much can't be said about your arguments, well unless you read between the lines as the only explanation I can see for you Barkley argument is because you don't like Koeman. 

Make of that as you will???  He is speaking rhetorically so you have to make of that what you will.  I deal with the facts at hand. Not difficult. 

I ended up disliking koeman - didn't start that way.  Nothing to do with Barkley... I was backing Barkley for a long time before koeman was on the scene... I gave moyes a lot of shit over Barkley so that's that angle stumped Einstein.

I knew you would try and bullshit your way out of saying whether gana is the worst player to wear a blue shirt and you actually proved me right.  I will keep asking... cos I know you wish you never said it but you are too weak to admit you are wrong on something.   Tough shit. 

 

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10 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Make of that as you will???  He is speaking rhetorically so you have to make of that what you will.  I deal with the facts at hand. Not difficult. 

I ended up disliking koeman - didn't start that way.  Nothing to do with Barkley... I was backing Barkley for a long time before koeman was on the scene... I gave moyes a lot of shit over Barkley so that's that angle stumped Einstein.

I knew you would try and bullshit your way out of saying whether gana is the worst player to wear a blue shirt and you actually proved me right.  I will keep asking... cos I know you wish you never said it but you are too weak to admit you are wrong on something.   Tough shit. 

 

And you’re too weak to give it a rest. Enough please, it’s pathetic and infuriating for the rest of us. 

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15 minutes ago, Matt said:

And you’re too weak to give it a rest. Enough please, it’s pathetic and infuriating for the rest of us. 

Don't involve yourself. If He is gonna get pissy and accuse someone of dodging questions then he can answer the one that he purposely avoids which exposes his MO. 

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26 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Don't involve yourself. If He is gonna get pissy and accuse someone of dodging questions then he can answer the one that he purposely avoids which exposes his MO. 

I’m a mod, I don’t get a choice in involving myself in bickering. It’s the second time I’ve had to ask. You know the answer, he knows the answer, we all know the answer. Move on. 

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54 minutes ago, Matt said:

I’m a mod, I don’t get a choice in involving myself in bickering. It’s the second time I’ve had to ask. You know the answer, he knows the answer, we all know the answer. Move on. 

Missing the point. And no you aren't being a mod in this matter either. 

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22 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Missing the point. And no you aren't being a mod in this matter either. 

Not missing the point and yes, I am being a mod by asking you to stop. Arguing is one thing. Repeating the same question with the sole goal of, I honestly don’t know what, and calling people a coward because they don’t respond to said question is not debating or arguing. If you’ve got a problem with that, take it up with me or the other mods in a PM so the thread can get back on “track”. Or just drop the petty repetitive question and we can all move on. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not missing the point and yes, I am being a mod by asking you to stop. Arguing is one thing. Repeating the same question with the sole goal of, I honestly don’t know what, and calling people a coward because they don’t respond to said question is not debating or arguing. If you’ve got a problem with that, take it up with me or the other mods in a PM so the thread can get back on “track”. Or just drop the petty repetitive question and we can all move on. 

No. It's a repetitive question because he refuses to answer it.  And with good fuckin reason...  the forum has gone ridiculous with the gana bullshit and nothing tops it more than his previous insistence that gana is the worst player to have worn a blue shirt.  The lukaku debate at least had some credence which has carried over to his time at United.

It's not you being a mod at all matt but if you wanna wear that hat then you knock yourself out.   Personally I'll ask the question again. Ban me if you want .. couldn't give a shit 

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8 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Personally I'll ask the question again. Ban me if you want .. couldn't give a shit

You're not close to a warning never mind a ban mate; anyone who's ever watched a game of football knows that Gana is an average/decent/excellent player depending on perspective. Everybody knows the answer to the "worst player" question (even Palfy) because it's patently laughable. Let it go.

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