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The X Factor Thread


StevO

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i remember when gary put him through to the live shows he said "i do not want him to behave"

they are playing the image, doing it well imo, something different from the squaky clean sob stories they normally go for.

tulisa tried to blow him up on saturday saying its not really him and they are pushing the image, its only what record labels have been doing for ever anyway! find a market for an act and milk it.

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i remember when gary put him through to the live shows he said "i do not want him to behave"

they are playing the image, doing it well imo, something different from the squaky clean sob stories they normally go for.

tulisa tried to blow him up on saturday saying its not really him and they are pushing the image, its only what record labels have been doing for ever anyway! find a market for an act and milk it.

 

Don't you think there is too much emphasis on image, when it's supposed to be a talent show?

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I'm a musician too, and some of the folks on xfactor CAN sing... they really can, but the tragedy is it's purely for singers, and it's style over substance time and time again.

 

As 'entertainment' goes - the X-Factor is a cracker. It's not really my cup of tea, but the facts are the facts - people watch it, people vote on it and advertisers pay a fortune to be aired during. It does what it does VERY well.

 

I just don't like what it does.

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to be fair, the whole music industry is based on image, is it not?

 

No mate. Only since the television became it's prime source of publication. Until then, you truly had to be talented to achieve success in the field. TV has a lot to answer for where music is concerned. The whole industry has changed. Talent still exists, but it's not at the forefront any more. Now it's not enough, nor is it the key factor. Mainstream artists do get the occasional one off, but in general mainstream pop is dictated to the prospective purchaser, by way of ensuring what is freely available to hear, on the commercial wavelengths etc is what they want you to hear. The true talent is often overlooked because it doesn't fit current taste. If you are only offered 10 acts to listen to, you will base your standards upon those 10 acts. You will think the world of music is all about those 10 acts, and you will be brainwashed into accepting them. That is basically what has happened to music now, only on a bigger scale. Years ago, if you wanted entertainment, you went out and watched a live band. Things have changed now. It is very difficult to find live music any more.

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I'm a musician too, and some of the folks on xfactor CAN sing... they really can, but the tragedy is it's purely for singers, and it's style over substance time and time again.

 

As 'entertainment' goes - the X-Factor is a cracker. It's not really my cup of tea, but the facts are the facts - people watch it, people vote on it and advertisers pay a fortune to be aired during. It does what it does VERY well.

 

I just don't like what it does.

 

It's a sad reflection of the times. Our society is one that I find very difficult to relate to sometimes.

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No mate. Only since the television became it's prime source of publication. Until then, you truly had to be talented to achieve success in the field. TV has a lot to answer for where music is concerned. The whole industry has changed. Talent still exists, but it's not at the forefront any more. Now it's not enough, nor is it the key factor. Mainstream artists do get the occasional one off, but in general mainstream pop is dictated to the prospective purchaser, by way of ensuring what is freely available to hear, on the commercial wavelengths etc is what they want you to hear. The true talent is often overlooked because it doesn't fit current taste. If you are only offered 10 acts to listen to, you will base your standards upon those 10 acts. You will think the world of music is all about those 10 acts, and you will be brainwashed into accepting them. That is basically what has happened to music now, only on a bigger scale. Years ago, if you wanted entertainment, you went out and watched a live band. Things have changed now. It is very difficult to find live music any more.

 

i can see your point with a lot of what you say, but to say its difficult to find live music now is way off the mark.

when i was in college i used to go and see the odd gig, where and when i could be arsed actually going for tickets. with the sites like ticketmaster you can find a type of music in what ever area you like, or you can find tiickets to certain bands if you so wish. music is there and available. just because manufactured pop music is getting a lot of air time on the tv and radio, that doesnt mean bands arent getting breaks, artists arent getting opportunities. this stil happnes.

 

talented people with determination will still come through. kids are making music in their bedrooms, uploading it to youtube and itunes and getting signed. one of the biggest artists in the world, yet one i cant stand, justin bieber, kept putting videos of himself singing on youtube and getting a following, as soon as he was seen by another artist (usher) he had his label check him out, the next thing he has a deal and the same people who were watching him on youtube are buying his albums.

you have the kids with apple laptops getting Garage band for free, and absolutely brilliant music prodiuction software, being used by the masses to put music together. you have radio stations looking for bands to give exposure to.

 

if you have the talent and the determination to get out there x factor will not stop you.

go ask ed shearan, one of the biggest selling artists this year. done the ground work himself, kept pushing, got a deal, blew up straight after his first single came out.

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i can see your point with a lot of what you say, but to say its difficult to find live music now is way off the mark.

when i was in college i used to go and see the odd gig, where and when i could be arsed actually going for tickets. with the sites like ticketmaster you can find a type of music in what ever area you like, or you can find tiickets to certain bands if you so wish. music is there and available. just because manufactured pop music is getting a lot of air time on the tv and radio, that doesnt mean bands arent getting breaks, artists arent getting opportunities. this stil happnes.

 

talented people with determination will still come through. kids are making music in their bedrooms, uploading it to youtube and itunes and getting signed. one of the biggest artists in the world, yet one i cant stand, justin bieber, kept putting videos of himself singing on youtube and getting a following, as soon as he was seen by another artist (usher) he had his label check him out, the next thing he has a deal and the same people who were watching him on youtube are buying his albums.

you have the kids with apple laptops getting Garage band for free, and absolutely brilliant music prodiuction software, being used by the masses to put music together. you have radio stations looking for bands to give exposure to.

 

if you have the talent and the determination to get out there x factor will not stop you.

go ask ed shearan, one of the biggest selling artists this year. done the ground work himself, kept pushing, got a deal, blew up straight after his first single came out.

 

SteveO, I think we're looking at it from 2 different angles, so we are unlikely to ever agree on the matter.

 

I'm a musician, you're a listener (that I'm aware of). Our agendas are very different, as are our tastes no doubt.

 

You quote Bieber as one of the biggest artists in the world, yet I'm not familiar with his music. I have no idea who Shearan is either. This isn't because I'm not educated in the world of music. It's just that the world of pop isn't as big as some might think, despite those who are engrossed in it and embrace it will have you believe, and those of us who refuse to listen to the commercial radio stations, and instead seek music further afield are free to choose what we listen to. We are not under the same peer group pressure as the younger generation, who are fed this trash with little hope of escape from disco to charts, to tv to radio. Despite all it's grip on commercial sales, pop still makes up a very small percentage of music sales. There is a very big slice of the pie left that caters for all things that the X-Factor doesn't. The crazy thing is that the likes of the X-Factor tend to take advantage of the ignorance of the younger generation, and attempt to pass off stuff as original. I'm sure they'll soon have folk dressed as Teddy boys or punks, and claim to be pioneers, and the kids won't know any different. Creativity seems to have come to an abrupt end, and instead trends and fads seem to be going back to bygone eras instead. Very concerning for the future in some respect.

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I'm a musician too, and some of the folks on xfactor CAN sing... they really can, but the tragedy is it's purely for singers, and it's style over substance time and time again.

 

As 'entertainment' goes - the X-Factor is a cracker. It's not really my cup of tea, but the facts are the facts - people watch it, people vote on it and advertisers pay a fortune to be aired during. It does what it does VERY well.

 

I just don't like what it does.

 

I would like to see a band factor (Patent pending). Genuine grafters doing the scene who deserve a break. I have heard hundreds of singers in pubs/clubs over the years that I thought had a fantastic voice but wouldnt demean themselves by appearing on a Simon Cowell cash cow. They want to take their bandmates with them.

 

I spent years drumming all over the UK and loved it all. I still play now but not in the hope of my "break" just for fun and a few beer tokens. There is massive talent out there I would love to hear - I go to local venues that put on the best of the local bands - I dont go to Karoake bars

 

Edit was for the trademark and patent. Get your fucking hands off Cowell its mine

Edited by codders78
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SteveO, I think we're looking at it from 2 different angles, so we are unlikely to ever agree on the matter.

 

I'm a musician, you're a listener (that I'm aware of). Our agendas are very different, as are our tastes no doubt.

 

You quote Bieber as one of the biggest artists in the world, yet I'm not familiar with his music. I have no idea who Shearan is either. This isn't because I'm not educated in the world of music. It's just that the world of pop isn't as big as some might think, despite those who are engrossed in it and embrace it will have you believe, and those of us who refuse to listen to the commercial radio stations, and instead seek music further afield are free to choose what we listen to. We are not under the same peer group pressure as the younger generation, who are fed this trash with little hope of escape from disco to charts, to tv to radio. Despite all it's grip on commercial sales, pop still makes up a very small percentage of music sales. There is a very big slice of the pie left that caters for all things that the X-Factor doesn't. The crazy thing is that the likes of the X-Factor tend to take advantage of the ignorance of the younger generation, and attempt to pass off stuff as original. I'm sure they'll soon have folk dressed as Teddy boys or punks, and claim to be pioneers, and the kids won't know any different. Creativity seems to have come to an abrupt end, and instead trends and fads seem to be going back to bygone eras instead. Very concerning for the future in some respect.

 

Okay Avin,I'll start by saying, I have an A Level in Music and Music Technology as well as having Grade 8 Piano, and Grade 7 Guitar and I suppose I'd come under your bracket of 'younger generation'.

 

I didn't really want to get into an argument with you, because I'd prefer to just come on here and make the odd little comment, but your whole argument is extremely narrow-minded.

Justin Bieber isn't one of the world's biggest artists, because you haven't heard his music? Give me a break. Numbers don't lie, his sales exceed many 'Music Greats', just because you're not a fan of him/his music/who he's aimed at/his commerce, doesn't mean he's not a talented lad with a huge following!

 

Ed Sheeran has exploded this year, and he now gets his music played on 'Mainstream' radio/TV. That doesn't mean I hadn't heard of him 12 months ago, when I was 'free to chose' what I listen to, instead of having the Radio dictate that for me, as you're suggesting.

 

Just out of curiosity, what ages would you include in your 'kids' generalisation?

 

"Half these acts could not do a gig, and that's being kind, presuming 'any' of them could. They are practising every week to sing 'one' song. They have 'zero chance' of ever becoming a live artist, as to be a live artist, you need to be able to cut it"

 

I saw one of the groups from last year(who didn't make it to the Live finals, just Simon's house) they preformed at a friends engagement party, I suppose not a traditional gig environment but a live performance nevertheless! They were brilliant, harmonies were tight and their performance tone was just right!

 

JLS, who didn't win the show, are now 'big' and I would say from TV performances, and reviews they do a brilliant live show!

 

To be honest Avin, you sound as if you're scared to branch out from the comforts of what you believe to be 'good music' and listen to anything which may have ever been played on a mainstream radio station!

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To be honest Avin, you sound as if you're scared to branch out from the comforts of what you believe to be 'good music' and listen to anything which may have ever been played on a mainstream radio station!

Thats probably because its all crap......

 

As for Bieber:

 

Not getting into this debate for X Factor contestants and the mass produced pop-tarts that get churned out....

Edited by Matt
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Okay Avin,I'll start by saying, I have an A Level in Music and Music Technology as well as having Grade 8 Piano, and Grade 7 Guitar and I suppose I'd come under your bracket of 'younger generation'.

 

I didn't really want to get into an argument with you, because I'd prefer to just come on here and make the odd little comment, but your whole argument is extremely narrow-minded.

Justin Bieber isn't one of the world's biggest artists, because you haven't heard his music? Give me a break. Numbers don't lie, his sales exceed many 'Music Greats', just because you're not a fan of him/his music/who he's aimed at/his commerce, doesn't mean he's not a talented lad with a huge following!

 

Ed Sheeran has exploded this year, and he now gets his music played on 'Mainstream' radio/TV. That doesn't mean I hadn't heard of him 12 months ago, when I was 'free to chose' what I listen to, instead of having the Radio dictate that for me, as you're suggesting.

 

Just out of curiosity, what ages would you include in your 'kids' generalisation?

 

"Half these acts could not do a gig, and that's being kind, presuming 'any' of them could. They are practising every week to sing 'one' song. They have 'zero chance' of ever becoming a live artist, as to be a live artist, you need to be able to cut it"

 

I saw one of the groups from last year(who didn't make it to the Live finals, just Simon's house) they preformed at a friends engagement party, I suppose not a traditional gig environment but a live performance nevertheless! They were brilliant, harmonies were tight and their performance tone was just right!

 

JLS, who didn't win the show, are now 'big' and I would say from TV performances, and reviews they do a brilliant live show!

 

To be honest Avin, you sound as if you're scared to branch out from the comforts of what you believe to be 'good music' and listen to anything which may have ever been played on a mainstream radio station!

 

Yeah, I'm frightened to death of branching out Kohen. I'm pleased for your grade 7 though. It's good to see young folk learning instruments. I'll tell Pink Floyd or the Beatles to go get jobs, and pop a few Bieber tracks on the juke box. Numbers don't lie after all, as you quite rightly say. Justin who? huh.png

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All a bit pointless this really because there's never going to be agreement.

 

Generational thing...personally I find the current state of popular music depressing but I'm supposed to because I'm over fifty...it's not meant for me.

 

I know that I had the best time of it because I saw Eric Clapton/Muddy Waters/Wishbone Ash/Dr Feelgood/Greenslade/Neil Young/Black Sabbath and a gazillion other live acts at least once a week when I was 16/25. Best time of my life.

 

My dad worked (at a very high level) for EMI in the sixties and was heavily involved in the Beatles (and others) but at home he listened to Sinatra/Anthony Newly/Shirley Bassey....shite (for me at the time). He didn't like the Beatleshuh.png .

 

I hate X factor and all it stands for....it's the return of Val Doonican and Andy Williams...middle of the road Saturday night fluff (although Doonican & Williams probably got higher viewing figures)...but I'm not supposed to like it.

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ive been a guitarist since primary school.

 

 

and mike, very jealous. ive been lucky enough to see clapton, but muddy waters is more like a story of legend to me and my old man. he always told me you cant beat the old fashioned blues players. i was lucky enough to go to new orleans before catrina, (nobody start getting all PC on me here) but the fat black guys who looked like they couldnt even get off the stool they were sat on just amazed me how they played.

 

i started this thread because im sure a few members on here watch the x factor and could have had a nice little place to discuss what we saw.

i didnt start a thread to cause an argument with people who dont like it.

 

there is a simple solution, if you dont like something dont watch it. no body here is preaching that x factor is a brilliant thing for music, its just simple saturday night television, it just so happens the people on the programme sing and some of them go on to have careers in music and television.

 

one stat i must quote. on the night of the first live show this year 9.6 million people watched it according to the viewing figures, last years first live show had 12 million viewers. even with the figures being down, thats a hell of a lot of people watching it. can just under a sixth of the population all be wrong? (cue the first post saying yes)

Edited by StevO
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over one sixth of the population are morons so yeah i'd say they could..it is popular and does it's job as said but as i said the biggest hate is that it is breeding a generation of celeb wannabee idiots who will do anythin to become famous rather than work to become summat worthwhile..and anyone who supports it is just as bad in my eyes..not havin a go its just how i feel..and it's beyond me how anyone can find karaoke entertaining

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ive been a guitarist since primary school.

 

 

and mike, very jealous. ive been lucky enough to see clapton, but muddy waters is more like a story of legend to me and my old man. he always told me you cant beat the old fashioned blues players. i was lucky enough to go to new orleans before catrina, (nobody start getting all PC on me here) but the fat black guys who looked like they couldnt even get off the stool they were sat on just amazed me how they played.

 

i started this thread because im sure a few members on here watch the x factor and could have had a nice little place to discuss what we saw.

i didnt start a thread to cause an argument with people who dont like it.

 

there is a simple solution, if you dont like something dont watch it. no body here is preaching that x factor is a brilliant thing for music, its just simple saturday night television, it just so happens the people on the programme sing and some of them go on to have careers in music and television.

 

one stat i must quote. on the night of the first live show this year 9.6 million people watched it according to the viewing figures, last years first live show had 12 million viewers. even with the figures being down, thats a hell of a lot of people watching it. can just under a sixth of the population all be wrong? (cue the first post saying yes)

 

Sales figures for 2nd albums would be a much better argument, but most of them don't get that far after the show

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you can see the ones who have lasted, as i have said earlier in the thread. leona lewis has managed a few, as has will young from the old pop idol days. then you get the majority who see out the prize winnings then disappear. but as i also said, its a tv show, it just so happens music is involved.

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one stat i must quote. on the night of the first live show this year 9.6 million people watched it according to the viewing figures, last years first live show had 12 million viewers. even with the figures being down, thats a hell of a lot of people watching it. can just under a sixth of the population all be wrong? (cue the first post saying yes)

"Val Doonican's gentle baritone voice and Irish humour instantly endeared him to the British public - at its height, 20 million viewers tuned in to watch The Val Doonican Show."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b00x147h

 

And on Muddy Waters....he was the "Plus Support" here...

 

EricClapton.jpg

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a man of muddys talents should never be a "plus support" but i suppose when its clapton its not so bad.

Clapton bowed down to him that night....it was Water's band who did the support...the man himself did only two or three tracks. At the end Muddy was on with Clapton, George Harrison and some bloke called Reg Dwight on a keyboard. Feels like yesterdaysmile.png . Wish it was.

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Clapton bowed down to him that night....it was Water's band who did the support...the man himself did only two or three tracks. At the end Muddy was on with Clapton, George Harrison and some bloke called Reg Dwight on a keyboard. Feels like yesterdaysmile.png . Wish it was.

 

Muddy Waters sons are performers too. I watched his son Bill play at the summer pops a few years back.

 

I listened to the blues for many years, so if there are any other blues fans out there feel free to start a blues appreciation thread, and share your favourite tracks. biggrin.png

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