Yak scores 4 but we got Saha.

[marcus jones]

Wow, wow , wow you lot, what the hell? The Yack scoring four against poor opposition? His manager probs said '' sacrifice everything, just give the Yack the ball''. Well said Steve, how many goals have you conceded today? Oh yeah you got a bargain! Tell you what, come back in may when he's lost interest yeah? Then sell him to Wigan! Never mind, it's late............. Oi Carlos,........ where's my keebab? Oh yeah, in my hand,....... nice one.........! Taxi!...............................

Edited December 4, 2011 by jona 32

[pete0]

I see your point mate but it really hasn't worked out for the best so far in my opinion. We made a few quid on other players and I'm still not sure that Moyes will have enough money to more than compensate for the loss of Beckford. I agree , financially it is a great deal but I reckon a bit of competition would work wonders for the King.

Beckford was never competition for Saha in Moyes' eyes though. If Beckford was still here am almost certain he'd have bum splinters

[codders78]

once for us, check out the facts Mr Pax:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakubu

 

in the word of our friend Ten:

BOOM

 

He had ample opportunity to reproduce this, rediscover the talent he has, use it for us and he didnt.

 

This.

 

I would wager good money that you go on Blackburn forums in 12 months time and they will be calling him fat and lazy and wondering why he cant reproduce the form shown when he arrived.

[codders78]

Beckford was never competition for Saha in Moyes' eyes though. If Beckford was still here am almost certain he'd have bum splinters

 

Beckford made over 30 appearances last season

[Matt]

Why when debating do you find it necessary to be juvenile? Wtf, Pax? Blue union? Tut tut, get a hold of yourself

 

I rate yak, he is a goal scorer, we don't have any. Enough said.

apologies that was juvenile (though I thought the BU and Pax were obvious , did expect you to get so shirty) . Blame it on the vin-chaud, beer, wine, whiskey concoction.

 

That said, you are acting like a child whos got his fingers in his ears going "la la la la, cant hear you" every time some evidence that either counters your argument or completely disproves it comes along and that winds me up.

[Romey 1878]

Look, I never cared that Yak was lazy. I wanted him in the box where he is deadly, not chasing balls down the line to put the ball in the box for who exactly when he was the striker? I didn't want him chasing back to the half-way line to put pressure on the opposition for our hoof happy defenders to launch the ball up to who exactly when our striker was stuck on the half-way line?

 

Moyes and the fans knew exacty what the Yak was all about when we signed him - goals and not much else. If Moyes had wanted a striker who would chase anything and everything then he should have bought someone else. You don't buy someone for what they're good at and then ask them to do something that negates what they're good at!

 

Saha is easily as lazy as the Yak was/is but he has never given us a goal return like Yak. And that's because as well as being lazy he's made of glass! But he gets away with it a lot more than the Yak ever did and I'm not sure why if I'm honest. It's well known that I hate the fact that Saha doesn't stay in the penalty area more. Why is that? It's because it's where the striker is supposed to be! How many times have we put the ball in the box this season only for there to be no one there on the end of it because Saha is off on the left wing? Yakubu is a penalty area hanger and heshouldn't be criticised for, more often than not, being in the right place at the right time. Some people will call that lazy, but I call it doing his bloody job.

 

That's my two pennies on it but it's time to move on, Yak doesn't play for us any more.

[Avinalaff]

Bit strange pining for Yak after one good game lol.

 

All strikers get lucky, and yesterday was Yaks turn to shine. Saha also scored 4 not so long ago against Blackpool, or do our fans have bad memories at weekends?

 

During the season Yakubu scored over 20 goals, most were laid on a plate for him to be fair, and the majority inside the box with simple tap ins. Saha on form is a great striker, and every bit as good as Yak, but our problem is they don't work hard enough with movement, and don't get the service here to suit their lazy styles.

 

I thought selling Beckford for £4m was a shame. He hadn't been given enough opportunities for me, and could possibly have gone on to better things.

 

Andy Johnson was our best striker if you were to ask me to pick one. His work rate was terrific, and I'd have him back tomorrow.

[Avinalaff]

Look, I never cared that Yak was lazy. I wanted him in the box where he is deadly, not chasing balls down the line to put the ball in the box for who exactly when he was the striker? I didn't want him chasing back to the half-way line to put pressure on the opposition for our hoof happy defenders to launch the ball up to who exactly when our striker was stuck on the half-way line?

 

Moyes and the fans knew exacty what the Yak was all about when we signed him - goals and not much else. If Moyes had wanted a striker who would chase anything and everything then he should have bought someone else. You don't buy someone for what they're good at and then ask them to do something that negates what they're good at!

 

Saha is easily as lazy as the Yak was/is but he has never given us a goal return like Yak. And that's because as well as being lazy he's made of glass! But he gets away with it a lot more than the Yak ever did and I'm not sure why if I'm honest. It's well known that I hate the fact that Saha doesn't stay in the penalty area more. Why is that? It's because it's where the striker is supposed to be! How many times have we put the ball in the box this season only for there to be no one there on the end of it because Saha is off on the left wing? Yakubu is a penalty area hanger and heshouldn't be criticised for, more often than not, being in the right place at the right time. Some people will call that lazy, but I call it doing his bloody job.

 

That's my two pennies on it but it's time to move on, Yak doesn't play for us any more.

 

That's the underlining factor.

[pete0]

Beckford made over 30 appearances last season

Yet, still didnt get many minutes on the pitch. If Saha was fit, Beckfords feet wouldn't of touched a blade of grass last season.

[Hafnia]

Watched his goals before, in fact watched his performance as close as I could, I think he broke stride once. First goal highlighted what we knew about him, a good footballer, used his size sent man away with weighted pass and planted return - a left foot strike in top right hand corner.

 

Second and thirds were instinctive headers (always thought he was better in air than given credit for) - fourth was a nicely taken penno perfect hat trick - left, right and head.

[Matt]

Look, I never cared that Yak was lazy. I wanted him in the box where he is deadly, not chasing balls down the line to put the ball in the box for who exactly when he was the striker? I didn't want him chasing back to the half-way line to put pressure on the opposition for our hoof happy defenders to launch the ball up to who exactly when our striker was stuck on the half-way line?

 

Moyes and the fans knew exacty what the Yak was all about when we signed him - goals and not much else. If Moyes had wanted a striker who would chase anything and everything then he should have bought someone else. You don't buy someone for what they're good at and then ask them to do something that negates what they're good at!

 

Saha is easily as lazy as the Yak was/is but he has never given us a goal return like Yak. And that's because as well as being lazy he's made of glass! But he gets away with it a lot more than the Yak ever did and I'm not sure why if I'm honest. It's well known that I hate the fact that Saha doesn't stay in the penalty area more. Why is that? It's because it's where the striker is supposed to be! How many times have we put the ball in the box this season only for there to be no one there on the end of it because Saha is off on the left wing? Yakubu is a penalty area hanger and heshouldn't be criticised for, more often than not, being in the right place at the right time. Some people will call that lazy, but I call it doing his bloody job.

 

That's my two pennies on it but it's time to move on, Yak doesn't play for us any more.

He contributes to the game more in my opinion. Otherwise, good argument...

[Hafnia]

He contributes to the game more in my opinion. Otherwise, good argument...

 

I think that's the problem Matt - he drops far too deep, flicks the ball etc and isn't there when it hits the box.

[Matt]

I think that's the problem Matt - he drops far too deep, flicks the ball etc and isn't there when it hits the box.

Cant argue there, but is that not more the midfields fault not getting the ball up to him quick enough? I often think he drops deep because hes tired of waiting or tired of trying to control a hoofball and wants a bit of the action. Id be putting him in Cahills role and sticking Vellios up front, because usually Saha does well when hes a bit deeper. Not what you want from your starting forward i know, but thats down to tactics and his support in midfield.

[Romey 1878]

He contributes to the game more in my opinion. Otherwise, good argument...

 

 

Does he though? Really? What I liked about the Yak was that he could hold the ball up effortlessly if the ball was given to him with his back to goal, then he had a good range of passing to bring the midfield into play. He had great close control.

 

Saha can't hold the ball up to save his life and often has a terrible first touch, resulting in no holding up of the ball and the midfield have no opportunity to join in an attack. He's better running with the ball than Yak, but he's often too greedy and ends up losing the ball and it leaves us exposed because the midfield has ran to join in the play and then they struggle to get back because they're snails.

 

Saha is a good striker but I don't think he's suited to us tbh, but he is what we've got to work with so it's tough shit really.

[Hafnia]

Cant argue there, but is that not more the midfields fault not getting the ball up to him quick enough? I often think he drops deep because hes tired of waiting or tired of trying to control a hoofball and wants a bit of the action. Id be putting him in Cahills role and sticking Vellios up front, because usually Saha does well when hes a bit deeper. Not what you want from your starting forward i know, but thats down to tactics and his support in midfield.

 

I'm trying to think back to his game at united. SAF goes nuts when Rooney comes too deep at times - he did against barca in champs league.

[Matt]

Does he though? Really? What I liked about the Yak was that he could hold the ball up effortlessly if the ball was given to him with his back to goal, then he had a good range of passing to bring the midfield into play. He had great close control.

 

Saha can't hold the ball up to save his life and often has a terrible first touch, resulting in no holding up of the ball and the midfield have no opportunity to join in an attack. He's better running with the ball than Yak, but he's often too greedy and ends up losing the ball and it leaves us exposed because the midfield has ran to join in the play and then they struggle to get back because they're snails.

 

Saha is a good striker but I don't think he's suited to us tbh, but he is what we've got to work with so it's tough shit really.

see above Mark. In addition, i thought his touch and control have been excellent last few games.

[Avinalaff]

Yakubu - Goal poacher, perfect for teams who create lots of chances, and only need someone to pop it in the net. Drifts on to the left wing a lot, but holds the ball up very well, and can bully any defender. Good skills, and clever play. Not a pacey striker, so don't expect dribbles, cross overs and darting runs, nor 40 yard net breakers. If his luck is in, he'll bag plenty. If it's not, it can be like waiting for a bus on a Sunday - in the rain.

 

Saha - Good aerial ability, and silky ball at feet skills. Passes the ball on well rather than being a hold up striker. Not a box poacher, but more an edge of box predator, with an instinct to shoot. Good athlete, but very lethargic and doesn't waste energy. Needs to get back on side quicker and back in to the game. Reminds me of my cat - "Yeah, yeah, whatever dude, I'm a cat, now open the effing door and stop telling me what to do". When on form, superb, but when not, frustratingly ineffective.

 

Beckford - Runs his ass off, and gets in to great positions, but apparently invisible to our midfield who often wasted his runs by offering little service. Seemingly signed with the sole intention of making a profit. Very un-Moyes like to do that, so would love to know what happened. Gave us needed pace, but how can you get confidence from being a sub?

[Bailey]

I was building up for a big reply on this thread but it turns out Romey has aid pretty much everything I was going to!

 

I always thought Yakubu was the prefect striker for us. He holds the ball up well, brings people into the game, he is actually a very good passer of the ball and has good vision in attacking areas. He was a bit wasted here because of all the aimless hoofball we played up to him, because he wasnt great in the air (back to goal) and he wasnt going to chase after one of Nevilles floated balls down the wing. He will guarentee you a decent amount of goals each season if you play to his strengths and at the moment, he is Blackburn's best chance of staying up.

 

There is no denying Saha is a class striker, but he is nowhere near as effective as Yakubu could be for us. IMO Saha in the box is equally as lethal, but he seems to have a fear of going in there. If we have Cahill playing between the lines we have no need for Saha to do the same.

[The Regulator]

Yakubu - Goal poacher, perfect for teams who create lots of chances, and only need someone to pop it in the net. Drifts on to the left wing a lot, but holds the ball up very well, and can bully any defender. Good skills, and clever play. Not a pacey striker, so don't expect dribbles, cross overs and darting runs, nor 40 yard net breakers. If his luck is in, he'll bag plenty. If it's not, it can be like waiting for a bus on a Sunday - in the rain.

 

 

 

This was solely my point, there has been an argument put forward that he had already played a great 12 months and we wouldn't see the same from him, but what did we get by loaning an unproven striker when this season we have been creating chances but not finishing them?

 

We lack strength in depth anyway, and with Saha being injury prone, what not just hang onto him? Granted he might have had a bad season for us and not scored any, but Saha has only scored 2, so what's the difference? They're both shit when out of form and 20 goal a season strikers when in form. If he'd have gone for 4 mil then I probably wouldn't feel aggrieved by it, but 2mil to me was not a good return on the 11 mil we spent and we may as well have kept him and taken the chance.

Edited December 4, 2011 by The Regulator

[Mogsy]

To be honest you need a shit hot striker who can do absoultly everything to play in the formation and style Moyes plays, and we could never afford anybody who could do that.

[milky71]

Yak was all set for Spurs before his injury, and hasn't wanted to play for us since. He could have chose to stay here and fight for a place, but accepted Leicester to pay him instead.

 

He did stay he fought for his place got his place was outstanding against liverpool then scored against stoke his reward benched for Saha who hadn't scored for 10 months.

 

Moyes has a stubborn arsehole streak that has cost us too often.

 

Cahill is the latest problem

[Oztoffee]

To be honest you need a shit hot striker who can do absoultly everything to play in the formation and style Moyes plays, and we could never afford anybody who could do that.

I agree. You have to bear in mind that the manager tells the players what he wants them to do. This is why Moyes likes certain players so much....they do what he says without complaint, even if they lose! Also probably why strikers don't go too well here....they are the creators, if you like and they don't like being told to do things that will reduce their creativity and effectiveness. A bit like being a muso and being told that you have to play like Mrs Mills today (how good is your memory?) and Axel Rose tomorrow. Creative folk just can't do that effectively and it shows in their performance.

Don't like the way defenders hoof it forward?......the manager has the last say.

Don't like the way Cahill doesn't get into the box as much.....the manager has the last say.

Etc. Etc.

Moyes has to play to players' strengths and get rid of this 'one style suits all' attitude.

[Avinalaff]

Yeah, let's blame Moyes for everything.

 

Yakubu plays well, it's down to Yakubu. He plays bad it's down to Moyes. Get a grip. These guys are pro footballers. They have been following managerial instructions since they first joined an academy. To think they play poorly because a manager asks something different of them is a bit lame.

[Memmaclub]

Yeah, let's blame Moyes for everything.

 

Yakubu plays well, it's down to Yakubu. He plays bad it's down to Moyes. Get a grip. These guys are pro footballers. They have been following managerial instructions since they first joined an academy. To think they play poorly because a manager asks something different of them is a bit lame.

 

Agree it's Yak's fault if he plays shit but I am not blaming moyes for that I am blaming him for selling him whithout giving him a proper chance after his injury. Moyes developed a grudge for yak for whatever reason and that is why he was sold nothing to do with his injury. Moyes should be better and work out how to get the best out of yak Keen and Blackburn has worked it out. Where as we stick with an injury prone jouneymen who drops deep to get the ball when he is the only one up front. I am sorry but no matter what the back up at the club now saha has to be dropped. He is a striker and he doesn't score and every time I see him in a blue shirt I lose a little bit more respect for moyes. Last season pushed me away from moyes and what is currently everton this year I am more further away because I can see the club begining to rot from the inside. I was so pleased by the purple patch when we were getting into Europe but I think we are doing a leeds or pompety in slow motion.

 

It seems moyes and the players have lost the passion and the drive to want to do better and have accepted they are going backwards and feel it is good enough after bad perfomances to blame the finances.

 

I used to see us as the best of the rest outside the top four I now see us as a team going backwards quickly and I fully expect us to go down.

[Matt]

he doesnt score because hes not giving the chance. he drops back because noone is giving him the ball and he gets fed up of waiting for it to arrive because noone is providing him service.

 

Yak is following his pattern - 1 amazing season then get bored. As much as im angry at Moyes today, cant blame him for Yaks desire for the team fading

[The Regulator]

Agree it's Yak's fault if he plays shit but I am not blaming moyes for that I am blaming him for selling him whithout giving him a proper chance after his injury. Moyes developed a grudge for yak for whatever reason and that is why he was sold nothing to do with his injury. Moyes should be better and work out how to get the best out of yak Keen and Blackburn has worked it out. Where as we stick with an injury prone jouneymen who drops deep to get the ball when he is the only one up front. I am sorry but no matter what the back up at the club now saha has to be dropped. He is a striker and he doesn't score and every time I see him in a blue shirt I lose a little bit more respect for moyes. Last season pushed me away from moyes and what is currently everton this year I am more further away because I can see the club begining to rot from the inside. I was so pleased by the purple patch when we were getting into Europe but I think we are doing a leeds or pompety in slow motion.

 

It seems moyes and the players have lost the passion and the drive to want to do better and have accepted they are going backwards and feel it is good enough after bad perfomances to blame the finances.

 

I used to see us as the best of the rest outside the top four I now see us as a team going backwards quickly and I fully expect us to go down.

 

I have been thinking about the Yak situation myself, and could there not be the mentality of big fish/small pond applied here? I mean, at Everton, the weight of expectation on him to score goals was always there after the first season. He got injured the following season, and looked fat and out of sorts coming back from the world cup. so much so that he was loaned to Leicester. You could argue that his time at Leicester was productive, given his goal return, but Leicester were playing well anyway and scoring in the championship is a lot easier than in the Prem. teams in the premier league like Stoke, have to become well drilled at the back to maintain stability. Defense is second to offense in teams that can afford it, but in teams that can't, it has to be the other way round. just like you can't win matches without scoring, you can't lose them without conceding. teams that come up and attack like Blackpool and Hull, go back down quickly. Teams that come up and defend, like Stoke, stay up for years and become established teams. Yak is 29, had become prone to injury and in preseason probably showed little sign that he was going to start banging them in again, obviously not more so than Vellios, because Moyes opted to sell yak and give Vellios opportunities. Think of the time of the transfer, deadline day, 2m for a player that is 29, looks like hes had his best years and doesnt really want to play at your club anymore? I probably would have done the same. So yak travels from Everton, a club that for seasons has knocked on the door of the european spots eagerly awaiting a return to continental football, to Blackburn where the hope is just to acquire enough points to stay up. Look at Blackburns strikers, it stands out that Yakubu is probably their best option. Now look at the quality that is actually feeding the yak, Pedersen and Hoillett are two very attack minded players who create lots of opportunities. Yak can goal-hang for most of a Blackburn match and still probably notch two a game without doing anything, but look at him. Against Swansea he ran the channels, made little sprints and dashes reminiscent of the old Yak, and scored 4 goals. to me, it's because he is by far their first choice striker, and he is relishing playing the hero. Plus with all the crowd focus on Kean, who'd really notice the Yak having a bad game with so much going on. It's like when Alan Shearer managed Newcastle, he had fuck all to do with them going down, but in just being there he could be respected, admired and even applauded for doing whatever he could to help the club. Yak may be scoring a lot, but Blackburn concede a lot. We don't, and obviously Moyes has reverted to trying to minimise the goals one end, whilst he has stripped the attacking line to appease the banks. After all, if we had sold Jagielka and started shipping loads of goals, we would have all blamed Moyes for that too. I for one thought what a pointless sale it was when we are so short up front, but Yakubu cost too much to have a bad season with us again, and to be honest we've got 7 strikers as it is, it's not that we aren't scoring enough, we don't create enough. You don't create and therefore have no chance of scoring, the bigger problem is our midfield.

 

For the second highlighted point, I don't see us going backwards just stalling at the lights. Fellaini, Rodwell and by this time next week, Barkley, will have all signed new contracts. not only will the value of all three peak in the next 3-5 years, but I fully see that being our core midfield by this time next year. And you can fully expect teams to fear it. Three, very talented, young and ambitious footballers as the heart of a grand old team will help bring glory back to the blue half of Mersey. Ensuring the future is protected allows a colder look at the present and I certainly don't see the likes of neville, bilyaletdinov and even cahill starting games towards the end of the season. The bench for some, others will move on, some will stay at the club, but with the potential of our young players and wisdom of the old there is a new Everton being born. Probably without Moyes, but not yet. Money is needed, but not to survive. Not only are we strong enough to get the results needed, we will still be up with a shout come the end of the season.

 

And it's not because we deserve it, or we're the "best of the rest", it's because we're Everton Football Club, we have tasted greatness, we have sat at the same table as other legends have and clubs like ours don't fall by the wayside. They survive, they endure, and they reclaim. Our team under moyes has always been 2-3 players shy of greatness, and even now, it isn't far away. And it isn't dreaming either, because the squad we have can produce a level of performance beyond people's expectations, but it takes confidence to reach it. Confidence is what we lack, and it can only come from performances. Moyes has made mistakes, and confused us with tactics, but he still knows what it takes to be up there and he knows as well as we all should that in two or three games times, the mentality, the confidence, could all be in the other extreme and we'll be talking of europe once again. Patience is a virtue, and by default Everton fans have to be the most virtuous on the planet, but we need a little faith as well. COYB

[Formby]

And it's not because we deserve it, or we're the "best of the rest", it's because we're Everton Football Club, we have tasted greatness, we have sat at the same table as other legends have and clubs like ours don't fall by the wayside. They survive, they endure, and they reclaim. Our team under moyes has always been 2-3 players shy of greatness, and even now, it isn't far away. And it isn't dreaming either, because the squad we have can produce a level of performance beyond people's expectations, but it takes confidence to reach it. Confidence is what we lack, and it can only come from performances. Moyes has made mistakes, and confused us with tactics, but he still knows what it takes to be up there and he knows as well as we all should that in two or three games times, the mentality, the confidence, could all be in the other extreme and we'll be talking of europe once again. Patience is a virtue, and by default Everton fans have to be the most virtuous on the planet, but we need a little faith as well. COYB

 

Noble sentiments - see Henry V, pre-Agincourt - but I don't think I can agree with any of it. We don't have a divine right to success: tasting greatness just makes you more bitter, and great teams and clubs have fallen by the wayside. It's not confidence we lack - it's quality. We are more than 2-3 players off being a decent side - more like 5 or 6 (or 8 or 9). Agreed, it's all exacerbated by Moyes's bewildering tactics (please just go, David), but we are a pale shadow of our best teams, and things are only going to get bleaker and darker. Wish they weren't.

Edited December 10, 2011 by formby

[Memmaclub]

I am an arm chair fan and thereforewhat I say next can be shit on by loads of season ticket holders and ppl that actually play the money to go. But I am getting older now and having kids and that place in my heart I had for everton is dwindling because of the utter despair around the club. Given we may make a midtable finish with some nice results but we also could just as easily be relegated. The board maybe be business lead minds but if you look at everton how you look at the economy at present. We are selling everything that is not nailed down and trying to reduce debt. When arguably if we invested in the squad we could push ourselves forward and earn our way out of debt.

[Avinalaff]

I am an arm chair fan and thereforewhat I say next can be shit on by loads of season ticket holders and ppl that actually play the money to go. But I am getting older now and having kids and that place in my heart I had for everton is dwindling because of the utter despair around the club. Given we may make a midtable finish with some nice results but we also could just as easily be relegated. The board maybe be business lead minds but if you look at everton how you look at the economy at present. We are selling everything that is not nailed down and trying to reduce debt. When arguably if we invested in the squad we could push ourselves forward and earn our way out of debt.

 

How do you suggest they invest?

 

Arm chair fans are one thing. Arm chair fans who spend their lives on forums shit stirring are another (not that you do this).

 

I love overseas fans too, but think both overseas fans and arm chair fans who have never been to a match should curb it where the club politics are concerned. If fans don't contribute financially towards the running costs of the club, then how can they complain that the club has no money? Is this not a fair comment?

 

I don't have problems with fans who used to go, but don't any more, but surely those fans should take a back seat now, where the complaining is concerned? I wouldn't dream of telling Kenwright or Moyes what to do, unless I could do it across the ground. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

[Matt]

How do you suggest they invest?

 

Arm chair fans are one thing. Arm chair fans who spend their lives on forums shit stirring are another (not that you do this).

 

I love overseas fans too, but think both overseas fans and arm chair fans who have never been to a match should curb it where the club politics are concerned. If fans don't contribute financially towards the running costs of the club, then how can they complain that the club has no money? Is this not a fair comment?

 

I don't have problems with fans who used to go, but don't any more, but surely those fans should take a back seat now, where the complaining is concerned? I wouldn't dream of telling Kenwright or Moyes what to do, unless I could do it across the ground. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Out of curiosity, why?

 

For me a fan is a fan, doesnt matter if they never set foot in Goodison or live there, theyre entitled to their opinion.